The genetic history of Ice Age Europe

[bicicleur 2]

there are at least 3 non-Neanderthal European industries older than proto-Aurignacian : Bohunician, Chatelperronian and Ullizian
I don't think any of them left much genetic impact, and moreover I think these people may have been genetically similar to the proto-Aurignacians because all these early industries in Europe share the same technological innovations which distinct them from Neanderthals, the same innovations that also appeared in the Levant and South and Central Asia
I would think if any of these 3 have left some genetic imact, it would have been Bohunician, which was on the very rich hunting grounds of Moravia
also in Kostenki, there were modern humans before the Aurignacians, that explains to me why Kostenki 14 was C1b1 and not C1a2 ; still he was not so very genetically distinct from the Aurignacians, maybe he had allready swapped wives with them or maybe he got integrated into an Aurignacian tribe - no industry has been assigned to Kostenki 14
then there were a few strange wanderers in between like Oase 1 to whom no industry is assigned and who definitely was to late and in the wrong place to be Ullizian, his branch probably didn't survive long

 

[epoch]

epoch,

Certainly could be another extinct branch--or maybe not. This group took a more southerly route, along the coasts.

My idea with pre-Aurignacian is that we have two almost comtemporary genomes: Oase1 and Kostenki14. The first unrelated and the latter related to all UP HG's. If Transsylvania was not colonized by K14-related people as it looks that way, the corridor north of the Alps may very well be the route the K14-related HGs took. There is the Bohunician culture, lately also reputed to be AMH.

Mind you, this all is speculation.


EDIT: Ah, bicicleur beat me to it
EDIT2: Transsylvania being directly behind the Iron Gates, where the Danube flows through the Carpatian mountains. Thought to be the spot where the first humans to come to Europe entered.

 

[Angela]

This could definitely be an extinct line. Or it might not. Those remains should be tested. Until a couple of days ago everybody thought Europe was repopulated by Magdalenians.

Wu et al is very clear about the two alternatives, and they specifically name Greece. If this is all about substructure in Paleolithic Europe, with the line leading to Villabruna having more "Near Eastern" affinities then wouldn't we have to be looking for another ancient line in Europe? It doesn't have to be the Uluzzians obviously. Maybe it is another one of the pre-Aurignacian lines. It doesn't have to be Italy.

That is an IF, I realize. As Epoch said, this is just speculation. I also don't have a horse in this race.

Another thing occurred to me after reading the paper on The Iron Gates. The WHG in the MN populations for a lot of Europe might not have anything to do with Villabruna specifically. Maybe the people at the Iron Gates were pretty similar, and they entered the European gene pool through people like KO1.

 

[Fire Haired14]

This could definitely be an extinct line. Or it might not. Those remains should be tested. Until a couple of days ago everybody thought Europe was repopulated by Magdalenians.

Wu et al is very clear about the two alternatives, and they specifically name Greece. If this is all about substructure in Paleolithic Europe, with the line leading to Villabruna having more "Near Eastern" affinities then wouldn't we have to be looking for another ancient line in Europe? It doesn't have to be the Uluzzians obviously. Maybe it is another one of the pre-Aurignacian lines. It doesn't have to be Italy.

All we know is that there's likely WHG ancestry in the Middle East. This could be from Western Europe>Middle East migration or Middle East>Western Europe migration. A Middle Eastern or Balkan origin isn't anymore plausible than a Russian origin, because even higher WHG affinity also exists/existed in Russia. My bet is on Western/Central Europe. That looks like the homeland of WHG, considering they had close relatives living there 30,000 years ago and even closer ones 20,000 years ago.

Magdalenians were likely a mixture of WHG and Goyet(35ky Beligium). So, WHG was probably already as far west as Spain over 20,000 years ago.

20,000 year old Madalenian lady ElMiron can fit as roughly 50/50 WHG/Goyet with D-stats.
ElMiron
"distance%=1.8073 / distance=0.018073"
"Loschbour" 54.35
"GoyetQ116-1" 44.2
"Basal" 1.45
"Vestonice16" 0
"MA1" 0
"Crown" 0

 

[bicicleur 2]

the Villabruna people are clearly I2, who started to split up some 21.000 years ago when looking at the TMRCA
that leaves I1 who split from I2 some 27.000 years ago
were I1 the same as the Magdalenians (all found are I, none C1a2) who got almost extinct when Villabruna people started to spread 14.000 years ago, or was I1 another, 3rd branch of I?

 

[Fire Haired14]

It should be worded "Near Easterners have more WHG affinity" not "WHG has more Near Eastern afffinity". Middle Easterners can be modeled as part WHG but WHG can't be modeled as part Middle Eastern.

 

[epoch]

Certainly a higher population ratio of WHG to pre LGM populations HGs could explain the final "product". Also, genetic game of genomic adaptation and selection can do this job too. WHG genome could have been positively selected as more suitable to post glacial scenario, even if initial mixing events were 50/50. Same way Neanderthal genome seems to be weeded out with time passing by.

Even better paper: http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2016/160318/ncomms10775/full/ncomms10775.html

 

[bix]

The plot thickens:

The mitogenome of a 35,000-year-old Homo sapiens from Europe supports a Palaeolithic back-migration to Africa.

at Nature.com/Science.

four more posts and I'll actually be able to post links

 

[Athiudisc]

I've gotcha, bix.

The mitogenome (33-fold coverage) of the Peştera Muierii 1 individual (PM1) from Romania (35 ky cal BP) we present in this article corresponds fully to Homo sapiens, whilst exhibiting a mosaic of morphological features related to both modern humans and Neandertals. We have identified the PM1 mitogenome as a basal haplogroup U6*, not previously found in any ancient or present-day humans. The derived U6 haplotypes are predominantly found in present-day North-Western African populations. Concomitantly, those found in Europe have been attributed to recent gene-flow from North Africa. The presence of the basal haplogroup U6* in South East Europe (Romania) at 35 ky BP confirms a Eurasian origin of the U6 mitochondrial lineage. Consequently, we propose that the PM1 lineage is an offshoot to South East Europe that can be traced to the Early Upper Paleolithic back migration from Western Asia to North Africa, during which the U6 lineage diversified, until the emergence of the present-day U6 African lineages.

http://www.nature.com/articles/srep25501

 

[epoch]

The plot thickens:

The mitogenome of a 35,000-year-old Homo sapiens from Europe supports a Palaeolithic back-migration to Africa.

at Nature.com/Science.

four more posts and I'll actually be able to post links

NORTH-Africa, actually. Which has a lot, if not 100%, of Middle-Eastern affinity. Muierii2 actually has an interesting affinity in table S5.10. It fancies Villabruna and Loschbour over Malta, whereas it doesn't make a difference between most UP hg's and Malta. Most other samples older than El Miron don't make a difference at all. It's not much, but neither is the Middle Eastern admixture in WHG.

 

[bix]

It stands to reason that if U6 can wander all the way over to the Atlas mountains and Maghreb and then up into Iberia during the Ibero-Maurasian, maybe an R1 might have tagged along. I'm hoping there's more research and interest in the Maghreb, and like the Balkans... MORE SAMPLING.

I saw a short lived thread in Anthrogenica called "The Out-of Maghreb Hypothesis for Western R1b" but it didn't go very far... didn't seem to garner much interest. But it caught my eye awhile ago and I've always thought that would almost be poetic if it were in fact the case.

Though it seems to make some peoples heads explode. That would cause yet another paradigm shift. Come what may, bring it.

 

[epoch]

It stands to reason that if U6 can wander all the way over to the Atlas mountains and Maghreb and then up into Iberia during the Ibero-Maurasian, maybe an R1 might have tagged along. I'm hoping there's more research and interest in the Maghreb, and like the Balkans... MORE SAMPLING.

I saw a short lived thread in Anthrogenica called "The Out-of Maghreb Hypothesis for Western R1b" but it didn't go very far... didn't seem to garner much interest. But it caught my eye awhile ago and I've always thought that would almost be poetic if it were in fact the case.

That is bias.

Though it seems to make some peoples heads explode. That would cause yet another paradigm shift. Come what may, bring it.

More stubborn bias. Political?

There have undoubtedly been up and forth movements across the Gibraltar straits, but mostly southwards. There have been massive migrations from the Middle East to Europa. But not before the Neolithic, because it was far better to live in the ME than in Europe before 10.000 BC.

 

[bix]

Yes, I do like the idea so I am biased, but I've been biased before and disabused of my silly notions by convincing arguments and evidence, and I surely will again, and my head won't explode, hopefully.

And also, what I mean by that, is that sometimes our preferred notions turn out not to be true. We can adjust and adapt to a new paradigm, or we can react irrationally. It's only an idea...

 

[Angela]

I do love these accusations of bias being thrown around. I can count the posters on these kinds of blogs I think aren't biased on the fingers of two hands, maybe one.

A lot of Iberians seem to be in love with the idea that their R1b comes from the earliest inhabitants of western Europe, so fooey on what they think of as this Indo-European gibberish. I can remember when the Anglo and German and Slavic contingent felt likewise but now most of them seem to be enamored of the idea that they're descended from the big, bad Indo-Europeans. What was that priceless phrase? "Blonde, blue-eyed cowboys of the steppes?" Not quite. (What is this mania? I can only think of two good looking blonde blue-eyed cowboys, Gary Cooper and Clint Eastwood, and I'm sure the Yamnaya people looked nothing like them. )

The usual suspect must spend eighteen hours a day randomly plugging in numbers until he gets something that says that at least the majority of his ancestry has nothing to do with the Middle East.

Why would an American of mostly northern European descent have a bias against R1b coming from the steppe exactly?

As for me, I'm like Switzerland...neutral. I don't know my father's yDna line and neither do I care what it is.

You guys make me tired.

Ed. Bix, don't take it personally. The whole topic is like dynamite.

And men call women emotional and irrational. Ha!

 

[Sile]

there are far too many people who hate the villabruna R1b and its consequenses

but Villabruna is 500 years older than M269 ...........what does this say ?..........is Villabruna the father of M269? ...............there will definitely be more mud trying to be thrown at Villabruna.

Yfull's estimate.
R-M269 CTS11468/PF6520 * PF6495 * PF6437+79 SNPs formed 13500 ybp, TMRCA 6400 ybp

 

[bix]

Angela, Exactly

As for myself, I looked into my father's y-line mostly to see if an old family legend was true: "We're all related." And in fact, well--sort of... mostly true-ish.

I like Switzerland too, and more and more I want to go there soon. But they were a contentious lot sometimes it seems.

My 9 times great grand dad was shown the door, literally arrested for being a Mennonite (only an idea, but it got some people beheaded), put on a barge with other prisoners and shipped down the Rhine and sent off to the new world. It was better than the alternative, which was marching down to Venice and being sold to the Turks as a galley slave. They made him pay his freight with seven years worth of indentured labor. But at least owing to his skin tone he was set free after that seven years and had the privilege of heading to the hills and not looking back. I was always reminded of this.

 

[Fire Haired14]

A lot of Iberians seem to be in love with the idea that their R1b comes from the earliest inhabitants of western Europe, so fooey on what they think of as this Indo-European gibberish. I can remember when the Anglo and German and Slavic contingent felt likewise but now most of them seem to be enamored of the idea that they're descended from the big, bad Indo-Europeans. What was that priceless phrase? "Blonde, blue-eyed cowboys of the steppes?" Not quite. (What is this mania? I can only think of two good looking blonde blue-eyed cowboys, Gary Cooper and Clint Eastwood, and I'm sure the Yamnaya people looked nothing like them. )

I agree with you there are posters like this but not all are.

The usual suspect must spend eighteen hours a day randomly plugging in numbers until he gets something that says that at least the majority of his ancestry has nothing to do with the Middle East.

Not true. David Wesolski is the most popular and one of few who does this so I think you're referring to him. I don't see any bias in him, besides being pro-Polish and pro-R1a. That's normal for Poles AFAIK. He doesn't plug in tests all day till he gets the results he likes. He just goes with what the data says. You don't have to insult people. You do that a lot. I know of other people who produce formal stats and none of them are bias at all. You're fighting straw men. No one fits the description you're giving.

 

[epoch]

Yes, I do like the idea so I am biased

Why on gods green earth would the out-of Maghreb hypothesis for western R1b seem almost poetic?

but I've been biased before and disabused of my silly notions by convincing arguments and evidence, and I surely will again, and my head won't explode, hopefully.

And also, what I mean by that, is that sometimes our preferred notions turn out not to be true. We can adjust and adapt to a new paradigm, or we can react irrationally. It's only an idea...

One thing that this whole DNA uncovered was not a huge paradigm shift, but basically that the Archaeologists from before the second world war were not nationalistic hideous proto-fascist liers, a notion widely spread since the sixties, but that they were actually right. Read Greg Cochran on this subject:

https://westhunt.wordpress.com/2014/11/01/the-inexorable-progress-of-science-archaeology/

Especially read what he attributes to Mario Alinei

” Surprisingly, although the archaeological research of the last few decennnia has
provided more and more evidence that no large-scale invasion took place in
Europe in the Calcholithic, Indoeuropean linguistics has stubbornly held to its
strong invasionist assumption, and has continued to produce more and more
variations on the old theme.

Clearly, the answer is ideological. For the invasion model was first advanced in the nineteenth century, when archaeology and related sciences were dominated by the ideology of colonialism, as recent historical research has shown. The successive generations of linguists and archaeologists have been strongly inspired by the racist views that stemmed out of colonialism. Historians of archaeology (e.g. Daniel 1962, Trigger 1989) have repeatedly shown the importance of ideology in shaping archaeological theories as well as theories of human origins, while, unfortunately, linguistics has not followed the same course, and thus strongly believes in its own innocence.”

See my point? The "racist views that stemmed out of colonialism" have been proven right.

Now I think that in the sixties common sense died and these idiotic ideologically poisoned academics basically invented a racist motive that wasn't there in the nineteenth century.

 

[epoch]

I do love these accusations of bias being thrown around. I can count the posters on these kinds of blogs I think aren't biased on the fingers of two hands, maybe one.

The bias I mentioned is extremely important as it haunted archaeology for decades (see previous post for link) and completely destroyed anthropology.

 

[bix]

OK Epoch, strike the "poetic" comment, I'd done gone rogue.

Still, what massive immigration event could there have been? At the end of the LGM, how many people were there?