The genetic structure of the world’s first farmers

Two competing hypotheses Steppe (Kurgan) and Anatolian have their arguments
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Anatolian hypothesis is dead.

At this point Russia, Iran and Armenia are IMO the only options for PIE homeland.
 
Tomenable said:
Anatolian hypothesis is dead.

At this point Russia, Iran and Armenia are IMO the only options for PIE homeland.
Click to expand...
I don't have a problem with Iranian Neolithic or Caucasus Chalcolithic being core of PIE culture. They obviously spread agriculture to the Steppe and possibly their language. However fully developed IEs come from Steppe/Yamnaya culture.
 
Tomenable said:
PCA chart (ancient pops):

https://twitter.com/iosif_lazaridis

wykres_PCA.png


Modern pops highlighted:
Click to expand...
It is interesting how strongly Armenian Ch/BA is pulled down towards EEF/Anatolian N, half the way. Probably from starting location similar to CHG and Iranian N. They are also shifted somewhat left towards EHG group, the steppe influence.
 
Sile said:
I1707 = T
age = 7722-7541 calBCE (8590±50 BP, Poz-81097)
found = 'Ain Ghazal Jordan
SNP's = 152234
MtDNA = R0a

I1707
: T(xT1a1, T1a2a) (PPNB )
This individual was derived for mutations PF7466, CTS7263, CTS10416
defining haplogroup T. It was ancestral for FGC3945.2 (T1a1) and
P322 (T1a2a). Thus, it could be designated
T(xT1a1, T1a2a). It has been suggested that haplogroup T first began to diversify in the Near
East9
and our results document that it was present there in some of the earliest Neolithic
communities of the Near East, providing a plausible source for its appearance in the Early
Neolithic of central Europe6.


While some Y-chromosomal lineages (such as H2, T, and G2a) span more than one early
Neolithic population in West Eurasia, none of them are found in all of them (Levant, Iran, and
Northwestern Anatolia/Europe), in agreement with the conclusion based on the analysis of
autosomal data that the Neolithic of West Eurasia either began (or was taken up soon after its beginning) by genetically diverse populations.

The Ydna found in and around Karsdorf ....where all G2a, H2 and T .............as per the note above, it means they have been travelling together for many many centuries
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Genetiker has done these below............for I1707

MC1R, rs1805009, red hair, fair skin
Levant Neolithic I1707 GG

OCA2, rs1800407, green or hazel eyes
Levant Neolithic I1707 CC

SLC24A5, rs1426654, Caucasoid light skin
Levant Neolithic I1707 GG

SLC45A2, rs16891982, Caucasoid light skin
Levant Neolithic I1707 GG

TYR, rs1042602, light skin, absence of freckles
Levant Neolithic I1707 CC


Looks like a south-caucasus or "thracian" identity
 
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This is also interesting (and shows up only during the Metal Ages; absent from Neolithic samples):

TYR, rs1393350 (blond hair + blue eyes):

Armenia Copper Age I1632 AA

MC1R, rs1805005 (blond hair + fair skin):

Iran Copper Age - I1662 TT
Iran Copper Age - I1674 TT

OCA2/HERC2, rs12913832 (blue eyes) [Edit: but it was present in Georgia in CHG hunters*]

Armenia Copper Age I1631 GG
Armenia Copper Age I1634 GG
Iran Copper Age I1665 GG
Levant Bronze Age I1730 GG

OCA2, rs1800407 (green or hazel eyes):

Armenia Early Bronze Age I1633 TT

*Satsurblia Cave hunter from Georgia (13,380-13,130 BP) had OCA2/HERC2, rs12913832.
 
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BTW - Natufians were 100% dark skin + 100% dark hair + 100% dark eyes.
 
LeBrok said:
It is interesting how strongly Armenian Ch/BA is pulled down towards EEF/Anatolian N, half the way. Probably from starting location similar to CHG and Iranian N. They are also shifted somewhat left towards EHG group, the steppe influence.
Click to expand...

IMO is pulled towards Steppe_MLBA (red squares), not towards Anatolia.

Same with Copper Age Iran compared to Neolithic Iran.

It shows that Steppe migration to that region was already in Copper Age.
 
LeBrok said:
Good point, we fall into known shortcomings of Anatolian origin of IE hypothesis, likewise there are too many ancient non-IE languages in the area, Caucasus, Minoans, Etruscans, Sumerians to make Iranian and Anatolian farmers IEs. There is no evidence of IE language till late Bronze Age. It could indeed be a language of Steppe herders/HGs and expended with them in Bronze Age.
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There is no evidence that Etruscan language is linked to ancient non-IE languages in the Anatolian area, except for some possible loanwords.

I suggest you to read this paper on the Demlfeld plate written in Reatic and found in Austria. According to scholars, the link between Etruscan and Reatic is very old.

https://www.academia.edu/5066954/La_lamina_di_Demlfeld_Considerazioni_storico_linguistiche

http://lila.sns.it/mnamon/index.php?page=Esempi&id=63&lang=en#418
 
Anyway, Sumerian artworks did not lie - DNA confirms that blue eyes existed in Ancient Middle East:

mesopotamia-blue-eyes.jpg


 
Alan said:
So "Genetiker", another dubious blogger has found out what the authors of the study with a huge lab couldn't. I remember Genetiker was also the one who found out that paleolithic Kostenki had red hair.
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He gets legitimate results. He didn't find out kostinki had red hair. He found out kostinki was a carrier of red hair. The study that sequenced his DNA found the same. Also his DNA was converted to 23andme format, I looked at it and actually he has a haplitype that is distantly anctral to a red hair haplitype. Point is geneticker isn't producing crazy results and can find stuff academics can't.
 
Alan said:
So "Genetiker", another dubious blogger has found out what the authors of the study with a huge lab couldn't. I remember Genetiker was also the one who found out that paleolithic Kostenki had red hair.
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:)
Right, let's discredit people who do extra stuff, instead of recognizing their efforts.

Or if it is r1b they find they become less dubious, but when it is r2 their dubiousity shoots the stars?
 
A. Papadimitriou said:
Everything a blogger says is dubious until it gets confirmed.
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I have seen quite a few Y-calls from Genetiker in the past which were confirmed afterwards.

Genetiker had some strange theories about Aurignacians and Gravettians and he was very groce against whoever didn't agree with him.
The study about Ice Age Europe proved him wrong. He apologized for that.
 
Tomenable said:
BTW - Natufians were 100% dark skin + 100% dark hair + 100% dark eyes.
Click to expand...

they came from Africa, I guess some 24 ka

E-M35M5290/S22882 * CTS9324/PF1768/M5266 * PF1871/M5325+95 SNPsformed 34900 ybp, TMRCA 24100 ybp


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohalo

Ohalo is the common designation for the archaeological site Ohalo II in the vicinity of the Sea of Galilee, and one of the best preserved hunter-gatherer archaeological sites of the Last Glacial Maximum, having been radiocarbon dated to around 19,400 BP.[1] The site is significant because of the numerous fruit and cereal grain remains preserved therein, (intact ancient plant remains being exceedingly rare finds due to their quick decomposition).


they admixed with Basal Eurasian though, you'd expect them a bit less dark
 
Genetiker is credible but would be more credible if I didn't see "BlahBlahAncientPeruWhiteGodsBlah" each time I visit his blog... :grin:

I think he should have one blog for legit genetical stuff, and another, separate blog for "Whites = Native Americans" stuff...

===========

Can't he at least remove it from "Featured Posts"?:

Blahblah.png
 
Tomenable said:
BTW - Natufians were 100% dark skin + 100% dark hair + 100% dark eyes.
Click to expand...

Most things indicate that light features were introduced into the Levant by Iran_Neo and Caucausus dudes.

In the past we had a debate about this. Remember Namrun (light features were known throughout Western Asia by Bronze Age times at least.
 
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