Immigration Dozens dead as vehicle crashed into crowd in Nice, France

[Dinarid]

Lol You are too young to be so pessimistic. Where is your hope???

Gone after watching American college students (brought up in the thread about Feminism and Islam). They hate free speech and logic, and want to feel oppressed. And they will have the world's most powerful nation at their disposal.

 

[Dinarid]

No words to express this horror.....I am questioning the Mental health professionals if they are going one step too far by trying to integrate people with clear psychotic violent behavior (as some kind of human right) instead of being locked up in mental institutions with dignified treatment, and not all of them can be returned in public. This kind of question back fires at anyone who asks it and considered a taboo, as it might as it will sound like collective punishment. But truly what is best?.

Also the opposition from many quarters to seriously crack down on hate Internet sites from all directions, Besides the ultra violent movies and games we have all round. Does no body question this anymore? Is it all fine? They are there as if its no body business and get to them with just a click of a button. Is this really freedom of speech? What has hate sites have to do with freedom? No one considers the resentment and anger it can cause and fire backs in all directions?

So basically censoring freedom of speech. This will never work. Angry Muslims who shout people down for simply criticizing what they see in the Quran always shout "free speech shouldn't include hate speech!". This won't work, and it will create a severe backlash. Then Islamophobia will be a real problem.

 

[Dagne]

@Tomenable,
You may not be breaking any forum rules, but I personally find your posts on this thread and others recently very disturbing .

I fully agree. Tomenable, you must know some muslim people around you, too? How can you lump everyone into same caste of terrorists?

 

[gyms]

A Confession of Liberal Intolerance
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/08/opinion/sunday/a-confession-of-liberal-intolerance.html?_r=0
WE progressives believe in diversity, and we want women, blacks, Latinos, gays and Muslims at the table — er, so long as they aren’t conservatives.

Universities are the bedrock of progressive values, but the one kind of diversity that universities disregard is ideological and religious. We’re fine with people who don’t look like us, as long as they think like us.

O.K., that’s a little harsh. But consider George Yancey, a sociologist who is black and evangelical.

“Outside of academia I faced more problems as a black,” he told me. “But inside academia I face more problems as a Christian, and it is not even close.”

 

[gyms]

ARSENAL OF WEAPONS with “Heavy War Weaponry” Evacuated Near German Mosque
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/06/arsenal-weapons-heavy-war-weaponry-evacuated-near-mosque/

An arsenal of weapons of radical islamists was excavated in NRW, North Rhine Westphalia. The “Top secret assignment” took one week and brought heavy war arsenal to the surface. This is what Hessian delegate Ismail Tipi (CDU) says.
According to information of the hessian CDU delegate Ismail Tipi a “top secret assignment” of the SEK in North Rhine Westphalia took place. In the cooler room of a vegetable vendor near a mosque, weapons were found and seized. “According to my information at this particular operation, an arsenal with heavy war weaponry was found.
The danger of arming of the fundamentalists and willing to resort to violence salafists in Germany is very high. This was shown clearly by this secret operation”, said Tipi on Friday at a press conference.
The Extremism expert also assumes that more weapons stocking took place in other cities. For instance the Hamburg intelligence service for constitutional protection also speaks of a heightened number of supporters of armed jihad.
In the meantime more than 300 people in Hamburg have been identified as supporters of armed jihad. The fear is that salafist sleepers, jihadists and IS terrorists in Germany find support through foreign intelligence services, that aren’t friendly to German interests. Through these weapons arsenals militant jihadists and sleepers will be equipped with weapons in their preparations for attacks”, the turkish born delegate says.


​

 

[bicicleur 2]

ARSENAL OF WEAPONS with “Heavy War Weaponry” Evacuated Near German Mosque
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/06/arsenal-weapons-heavy-war-weaponry-evacuated-near-mosque/

An arsenal of weapons of radical islamists was excavated in NRW, North Rhine Westphalia. The “Top secret assignment” took one week and brought heavy war arsenal to the surface. This is what Hessian delegate Ismail Tipi (CDU) says.
According to information of the hessian CDU delegate Ismail Tipi a “top secret assignment” of the SEK in North Rhine Westphalia took place. In the cooler room of a vegetable vendor near a mosque, weapons were found and seized. “According to my information at this particular operation, an arsenal with heavy war weaponry was found.
The danger of arming of the fundamentalists and willing to resort to violence salafists in Germany is very high. This was shown clearly by this secret operation”, said Tipi on Friday at a press conference.
The Extremism expert also assumes that more weapons stocking took place in other cities. For instance the Hamburg intelligence service for constitutional protection also speaks of a heightened number of supporters of armed jihad.
In the meantime more than 300 people in Hamburg have been identified as supporters of armed jihad. The fear is that salafist sleepers, jihadists and IS terrorists in Germany find support through foreign intelligence services, that aren’t friendly to German interests. Through these weapons arsenals militant jihadists and sleepers will be equipped with weapons in their preparations for attacks”, the turkish born delegate says.


​

good job
many arrests have been made of complices to the Paris and Brussels attacks
but it is still not clear where the weapons are stored
only a small fraction of the network has been dismantled

 

[Maleth]

So basically censoring freedom of speech. This will never work. Angry Muslims who shout people down for simply criticizing what they see in the Quran always shout "free speech shouldn't include hate speech!". This won't work, and it will create a severe backlash. Then Islamophobia will be a real problem.

Were did I say ban freedom of speech. I am saying Ban hate speech outright. Hate speech has nothing to do with freedom of Speech. Hate speech is designed to hurt and create very bad feelings that collectively can bring about much negative repercussion. Very often the negatives are highly amplified and exaggerated invented on purpose to bring about disharmony and chaos without any rational argument. Its the state duty to control this madness and not allow a free flow for all. I support rational discussion with intelligent arguments on no matter on who or whom including gods, kings and presidents, but arguments need to be in a civil and constructive manner. But to express it with cheap insults, amplifications on the negatives and right out lies is totally unacceptable, just to satisfy some kind of obsessively behaved cult.

 

[Maleth]

Double post

 

[bicicleur 2]

Were did I say ban freedom of speech. I am saying Ban hate speech outright. Hate speech has nothing to do with freedom of Speech. Hate speech is designed to hurt and create very bad feelings that collectively can bring about much negative repercussion. Very often the negatives are highly amplified and exaggerated invented on purpose to bring about disharmony and chaos without any rational argument. Its the state duty to control this madness and not allow a free flow for all. I support rational discussion with intelligent arguments on no matter on who or whom including gods, kings and presidents, but arguments need to be in a civil and constructive manner. But to express it with cheap insults, amplifications on the negatives and right out lies is totally unacceptable, just to satisfy some kind of obsessively behaved cult.

where are you going to draw the line?
if you leave it to someones interpretation, there is no straigth line

 

[Voyager]

First : Certainly Islam is a problem. Just have look to some Koran sourates. Second: Bad migration management. Mitterand, the french socialist president and his prime Minister Mr Jospin , 25 years ago, began to leave France open door to immigration from Magreb. Algeria had millions of youngs unemployed at this time.
Then millions of them came not only workers but also all their families as the french industry employers wanted to stabilize these workers in our cowntry. Unbelievable but True! they were ignoring the huge social cost and future problems to come.
Since then, the FN and the PC alerted the danger, nobody wanted to hear them without shouting and insulting these peoples as racists and nothing changed during all following presidencies and still now!
These foreign families kept coming in and concentrated mainly around big industrial towns. They gave birth to Millions of children, birth rate was boosted by a very interesting and generous social system.
Nowadays our terrorists are almong these children.
They usualy have a lot of difficulties to live in our occidental society. Most of them, not all, are unemployed, they hardly write french, and they don't want to do their parent's job, many reject our way of life. All of that gives rise to terrorism.
Islam is the ideology to sustain that. Also some external islamist forces try to take advantage of this french bad situation. Hollande went to war abroad because of this internal french society problem but it's not the solution .
The solution is not outside it's inside. All european cowntries are more or less in the same situation.
The solution is now hard to find but certainly we should have better to hear a little bit more the FN and PC advices.

 

[bicicleur 2]

First : Certainly Islam is a problem. Just have look to some Koran sourates. Second: Bad migration management. Mitterand, the french socialist president and his prime Minister Mr Jospin , 25 years ago, began to leave France open door to immigration from Magreb. Algeria had millions of youngs unemployed at this time.
Then millions of them came not only workers but also all their families as the french industry employers wanted to stabilize these workers in our cowntry. Unbelievable but True! they were ignoring the huge social cost and future problems to come.
Since then, the FN and the PC alerted the danger, nobody wanted to hear them without shouting and insulting these peoples as racists and nothing changed during all following presidencies and still now!
These foreign families kept comming in and concentrated mainly around big town. They gave birth to Millions of children, birth rate was boosted by a very interesting and generous social system.
Nowadays our terrorists are almong these children.
They usualy have a lot of difficulties to live in our occidental society. Most of them, not all, are unemployed, they hardly write french, and they don't want to do their parent's job, many reject our way of life. All of that gives rise to terrorism.
Islam is the ideology to sustain that. Also some external islamist forces try to take advantage of this french bad situation. Hollande went to war abroad because of this internal french society problem but it's not the solution .
The solution is not outside it's inside. All european cowntries are more or less in the same situation.

letting them and their family in was not a request made by the industries
it was a decision made by politicians who despised their own countrymen

 

[LABERIA]

I don't think the problem is Islam as religion. The problem is that Arab nations and Islamic world in general, are in historical situation comparable to the European middle age. This is their main problem. First they have to make a division between state and religion. But this is a very complicated process. In Europe this process took centuries and a lot of blood and ink. About the sure of Kuran. This are interpretations of different imams. Each one has his interpretation. The Islamic world always has been organised as a Caliphate. Maybe seems cynical but the lack of a caliph causes this problem in interpretation of the Kuran. But again i want to repeat. They have to make a clear division between religion and state. We live in a modern world. And this world has nothing to do with their grandfathers who lived 1000 years ago.

 

[Voyager]

letting them and their family in was not a request made by the industries
it was a decision made by politicians who despised their own countrymen

It was not a written request but the great industies employers were in favor of the so called family regroupment. I saw a video of Francis Bouygues boss of a great building enterprise telling us all the advantages of Family migration, he became boss of TV media etc...This boss said exactly migrants are a good workers but if we want stable and happy workers we need their family to come with them.video in french:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mX8-Db5iym0
They just defended their own profit not the global society 's ones, we can't blame them for that. But you are right , we have to blame the weakness of politicians elected by the Peoples supposed to defend the Peoples.

 

[bicicleur 2]

It was not a written request but the great industies employers were in favor of the so called family regroupment. I saw a video of Francis Bouygues boss of a great building enterprise telling us all the advantages of Family migration, he became boss of TV media etc...This boss said exactly migrants are a good workers but if we want stable and happy workers we need their family to come with them.video in french:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mX8-Db5iym0
They just defended their own profit not the global society 's ones, we can't blame them for that. But you are right , we have to blame the weakness of politicians elected by the Peoples supposed to defend the Peoples.

In Belgium it was even worse.
After the coal mine closures we didn't need labour immigrants any more.
But the Walloon socialists kept letting more of them in. Most of them never got a job and stayed on welfare all the time.
The Walloon sociaists thaught they'd vote for them out of gratitude.
The result is that Belgium has the highest rate of Syria fighters today.

 

[bicicleur 2]

I don't think the problem is Islam as religion. The problem is that Arab nations and Islamic world in general, are in historical situation comparable to the European middle age. This is their main problem. First they have to make a division between state and religion. But this is a very complicated process. In Europe this process took centuries and a lot of blood and ink. About the sure of Kuran. This are interpretations of different imams. Each one has his interpretation. The Islamic world always has been organised as a Caliphate. Maybe seems cynical but the lack of a caliph causes this problem in interpretation of the Kuran. But again i want to repeat. They have to make a clear division between religion and state. We live in a modern world. And this world has nothing to do with their grandfathers who lived 1000 years ago.

I'm not a specialist, but has Islam not always destroyed it's own progress?
The caliphate in Bagdad was overthrown by fundamentalist Islamists.
The Umayyads in Spain were overthrown by the Almohavides.

They were ahead of Europe till ca 14 th century, but they destroyed it themselves?

 

[LABERIA]

The second problem, the migration. This is a forum dedicated to genetics. Who has study genetics, history, etc, know that humanity during all the history has migrated from A to B. Our life or if you want our epoque is just small faction of time in the hour of humanity. You just can not stop this processes. This raport of hate and love of the west with the migration it's not a new thing. Your parents after the WWII, especially during the economic boom of 50s and 60s opted for new style of life. People wanted to enjoy the life and among other things, they started to make less childrens. Less children mean less manpower. Now, the problem is not just as i said once to bicicleur, who will clean your toilets or who will made a certain categori of jobs. The problem is the high average age of population in Western Europe. So you have a need for emigrants.
Most of the West European countries during the history were Empires and ruled all the world. At my knowledge, i don't know an monoethnic Empire. Also this countries continue to have their ambitions. For this reason we have today organisations like Commonwealth or the Organization of Francophone countries,etc.
This is speaking in general about the problem of the migration. The last situation of migration was something "special". Because i think that this time the migration of this poor people was used as weapon in order to destabilize EU.

 

[LABERIA]

I'm not a specialist, but has Islam not always destroyed it's own progress?
The caliphate in Bagdad was overthrown by fundamentalist Islamists.
The Umayyads in Spain were overthrown by the Almohavides.

They were ahead of Europe till ca 14 th century, but they destroyed it themselves?

I think i have explained in my post. One of the most important achievements in European history was the division of State from religion.

 

[Voyager]

Most of the West European countries during the history were Empires and ruled all the world. At my knowledge, i don't know an monoethnic Empire. Also this countries continue to have their ambitions. For this reason we have today organisations like Commonwealth or the Organization of Francophone countries,etc.
This is speaking in general about the problem of the migration. The last situation of migration was something "special". Because i think that this time the migration of this poor people was used as weapon in order to destabilize EU.

The barbarian migrations swept completly the Roman Empire between A.D. 300 and 500.
One Economic Nobel Price said that a migrant worker in a modern economy costs 3 to 5 times more to the community than what he brings. Then the story of the young migrants paying for the retirements pensions of the aged peoples doesn't stand one second. Its a pure joke! and we have now the proof every day. Only investment will pay our retirement pensions. It's the basic purpose of the investment in machines, infrastructure, modernization, automatization, robots etc... In fact we must realize that the machines, the robots works mainly for us and replaced th workpower of the slaves of the previous roman empire. Now , in some farm, one to 3 men can rule the farm where before you needed hundreds of people at the begining of the 20th cent. All is done by robots.

 

[Dinarid]

Were did I say ban freedom of speech. I am saying Ban hate speech outright. Hate speech has nothing to do with freedom of Speech. Hate speech is designed to hurt and create very bad feelings that collectively can bring about much negative repercussion. Very often the negatives are highly amplified and exaggerated invented on purpose to bring about disharmony and chaos without any rational argument. Its the state duty to control this madness and not allow a free flow for all. I support rational discussion with intelligent arguments on no matter on who or whom including gods, kings and presidents, but arguments need to be in a civil and constructive manner. But to express it with cheap insults, amplifications on the negatives and right out lies is totally unacceptable, just to satisfy some kind of obsessively behaved cult.

This is unacceptable in a democratic society. What you want is totalitarianism, and this is everything that's wrong with the EU. Hate speech is free speech, sorry. Your feelings have no right to prevent me from saying what I want, no matter how offensive. Anyone who can't deal with that shouldn't be on the internet. You can't run to the authorities every time someone says something offensive- that's literally impossible. But at least you're honest that you want the state to protect peoples' feelings like little babies, most leftists deny this. Perhaps hateful rhetoric can be legally excluded from an official or political setting, but you have no right to censor the public. You'll have to live with the fact that there is a free flow of information, and any society that attempts to suppress it won't end up well.

 

[LeBrok]

The barbarian migrations swept completly the Roman Empire between A.D. 300 and 500.

Mind you that Roman Empire collapsed in 100 years after Christianity became State Religion.

One Economic Nobel Price said that a migrant worker in a modern economy costs 3 to 5 times more to the community than what he brings.

You don't mind sharing his name and name of the paper where he claims that, do you?