Post your DNA Land results

[Regio X]

Please discuss

23andMe - West Eurasian 100%:

South European 38%: Balkan 27%; South/Central European 11%.
Northwest European 31%.
Southwestern European 16%: Southwestern European 8.6%; Sardinian 7.5%.
Ashkenazi/Levantine 14%: Mediterranean Islander 9.2%; Ashkenazi 4.7%.
Kalash 1.3%.

FTDNA - West Eurasian 100%:

South European 58%: South/Central European 40%; Balkan 19%.
Northwest European 27%.
Southwestern European 8.1%: Southwestern European 6.9%; Sardinian 1.2%.
Mediterranean Islander 5.1%.
Ambiguous 1.2%.

In Gedmatch, my results based on 23andMe and FTDNA data are similar one another, but in DNA Land they're significantly different.
Besides, I have run the data four times, in different months, and the percentages have always been changed. I don't know why. Perhaps the genomes submitted, or part of them, are used by the algorithm, or it's still under development process, i.e., the algorithm itself would have changed a lot. Or both. (?)

My mother, full Italian/Venetian, came out as 51% Balkan. Odd!

Well, I take this with a ton of salt.

Father's - West Eurasian 100%:

South European 41%: South/Central European 29%; Balkan 12%.
Northwest European 29%.
Southwestern European 17%: Southwestern European 14%; Sardinian 2.9%.
Ashkenazi 8.8%.
North Slavic 2.9%.
Ambiguous 1.4%.

Mother's - West Eurasian 100%:

South European 57%: Balkan 51%; South/Central European 6.2%.
Northwest European 29%.
Southwestern European 14%: Sardinian 9.9%; Southwestern European 4.4%.

 

[davef]

In Gedmatch, my results based on 23andMe and FTDNA data are similar one another, but in DNA Land they're significantly different.
Besides, I have run the data four times, in different months, and the percentages have always been changed. I don't know why. Perhaps the genomes submitted, or part of them, are used by the algorithm, or it's still under development process, i.e., the algorithm itself would have changed a lot. Or both. (?)

My mother, full Italian/Venetian, came out as 51% Balkan. Odd!

Well, I take this with a ton of salt.

Father's - West Eurasian 100%:

South European 41%: South/Central European 29%; Balkan 12%.
Northwest European 29%.
Southwestern European 17%: Southwestern European 14%; Sardinian 2.9%.
Ashkenazi 8.8%.
North Slavic 2.9%.
Ambiguous 1.4%.

Mother's - West Eurasian 100%:

South European 57%: Balkan 51%; South/Central European 6.2%.
Northwest European 29%.
Southwestern European 14%: Sardinian 9.9%; Southwestern European 4.4%.

Maybe ftdna looks at different genes? Hmmm...8.8 percent Jewish seems awfully high for a north italian, I can only imagine what south italians get in that category (should be much higher given the stronger east med background). 23 and me and ftdna did an excellent job telling Jews apart from South Italians and it seems that this program has ways to go, at least in that aspect.

So yeah, it seems to have much room for improvement.

 

[Regio X]

Maybe ftdna looks at different genes? Hmmm...8.8 percent Jewish seems awfully high for a north italian, I can only imagine what south italians get in that category (should be much higher given the stronger east med background). 23 and me and ftdna did an excellent job telling Jews apart from South Italians and it seems that this program has ways to go, at least in that aspect.

So yeah, it seems to have much room for improvement.

Yes, it looks at different genes, but, still, I would say those differences in DNA Land couldn't be so big.
And yes, these 8.8 percent Ashkenazi doesn't make much sense. It seems to me as well that 23andMe and FTDNA did a good job in this matter.

 

[Sile]

In Gedmatch, my results based on 23andMe and FTDNA data are similar one another, but in DNA Land they're significantly different.
Besides, I have run the data four times, in different months, and the percentages have always been changed. I don't know why. Perhaps the genomes submitted, or part of them, are used by the algorithm, or it's still under development process, i.e., the algorithm itself would have changed a lot. Or both. (?)

My mother, full Italian/Venetian, came out as 51% Balkan. Odd!

Well, I take this with a ton of salt.

Father's - West Eurasian 100%:

South European 41%: South/Central European 29%; Balkan 12%.
Northwest European 29%.
Southwestern European 17%: Southwestern European 14%; Sardinian 2.9%.
Ashkenazi 8.8%.
North Slavic 2.9%.
Ambiguous 1.4%.

Mother's - West Eurasian 100%:

South European 57%: Balkan 51%; South/Central European 6.2%.
Northwest European 29%.
Southwestern European 14%: Sardinian 9.9%; Southwestern European 4.4%.

why is this balkan number odd? ..............genetic papers always link venetians with Bulgarians and south-french, the laz papers of 2014 where the first to find this close link. Cleary they do not mean the modern bulgarians or modern south-french.............more like thracians and gaulish people

 

[Sile]

BTW, I was given this as which companies should more accurate AuDna numbers

-23andme version 3

-Natgeno 2 ( first version and transferred to ftdna )

-Ftdna

-British DNA

-Ancestry

-23andme version 4

-23andme version 2

If there are others, they where not given

 

[Angela]

why is this balkan number odd? ..............genetic papers always link venetians with Bulgarians and south-french, the laz papers of 2014 where the first to find this close link. Cleary they do not mean the modern bulgarians or modern south-french.............more like thracians and gaulish people

This has nothing to do with ancient peoples; it's all based only on modern allele frequencies.

This is why people shouldn't take "Admixture" clusters so seriously. It all depends how one groups the clusters. In this case, they grouped the Balkans and north/central Italy and called it "Balkan".

Somebody else would create an "Italian" centrum somewhere in Italy and measure everyone in terms of that, which is what 23andme did.

 

[Sile]

This has nothing to do with ancient peoples; it's all based only on modern allele frequencies.

This is why people shouldn't take "Admixture" clusters so seriously. It all depends how one groups the clusters. In this case, they grouped the Balkans and north/central Italy and called it "Balkan".

Somebody else would create an "Italian" centrum somewhere in Italy and measure everyone in terms of that, which is what 23andme did.

then what does the laz link represent?

 

[davef]

So you can have a db with only Russians and sub saharans, have a Turk go through the test, and the Turk would come out as partially Russian. This is one way a test can trick its participants, correct? Because it would count the Turk's western hunter gatherer genes that are found in Russians and not in sub saharans as "Russian"?

 

[Regio X]

@Angela
I think DNA Land called it "South European". Balkan is Albanian + Bulgarian + Greek, and South/Central European is Bergamo + Tuscan, isn't that right?

@Sile
51%!? It's really hard to believe in such number, especially if we consider DNA Land is based on modern people. Besides, don't you think odd a Venetian being closer to Balkan than to Bergamo? Likely the link you mentioned helps to explain the result, but it would be still a bad result, imo, even if Bessica/Bessega (where a grandfather of my mother had roots) has been colonized by "Bessoi" soldiers in Roman times.
Btw, the Balkan cluster exists also in 23andMe, and my mother gets between 7 and 8% there (version 4). Well, it seems to me there are sufficient evidences (see also previous posts) showing DNA Land "have much room for improvement", as davef says.

 

[Angela]

@Angela
I think DNA Land called it "South European". Balkan is Albanian + Bulgarian + Greek, and South/Central European is Bergamo + Tuscan, isn't that right?

@Sile
51%!? It's really hard to believe in such number, especially if we consider DNA Land is based on modern people. Besides, don't you think odd a Venetian being closer to Balkan than to Bergamo? Likely the link you mentioned helps to explain the result, but it would be still a bad result, imo, even if Bessica/Bessega (where a grandfather of my mother had roots) has been colonized by "Bessoi" soldiers in Roman times.
Btw, the Balkan cluster exists also in 23andMe, and my mother gets between 7 and 8% there (version 4). Well, it seems to me there are sufficient evidences (see also previous posts) showing DNA Land "have much room for improvement", as davef says.

I'm sure you know better than I do. I don't pay very much attention to these things any more. Really, it's only ancient dna and how it proves or disproves archaeology and ancient history that interests me.

What I do know is that on Kurd's calculator with no Bergamo or Tuscan reference samples, I always come out as someone from the Balkans, usually Bulgarian or Albanian or something in the top two.

Cavalli-Sforza pointed out forty years ago that northern Italians are close to the people of the northern Balkans (not Greeks). That's old hat. However, a calculator that tells me I'm Bulgarian is useless because I'm not. On any calculator with Bergamo and Tuscan samples I'm right between them. When the "North Italy" sample from Piemonte is included, I'm closest to them. Obviously, calculators with those reference samples are better at "placing" me.

This dividing Europe into "clusters" is fraught with difficulty, especially in southern Europe. DNA Land has obviously aggregated those alleles which northern Italians share with Balkan peoples, and includes them in the Balkans cluster or labels them as "Balkan". If they created a "Northern Italian" cluster of those shared north Italian/Balkan genes and called them north Italian, people in the Balkans would get big North Italian percentages. One isn't more "right" than another.

What I do know is that northern Italians are not Bulgarians, and Tuscans are not Albanians, even if they might place relatively near each other on a PCA plot or they share some alleles. Yes, they were equally impacted by certain population migrations, but on the other hand, there are definite differences in terms of which "northern" or central European groups affected them, as just one example. Northern Italians got more from the "Celts" and the "Germanics", although the Balkans got some. On the other hand, the Balkans got more influence from the "Slavs", and even in some cases from the Central Asiatics. So, they're not the same people, and any calculator that gives that impression isn't any good.

Obviously, we know that someone from the Veneto should be closer to someone from Bergamo or Brescia than to someone from Bulgaria.

Oh, Genographic is another example. Do they still cluster Italians and Greeks together? That's bound to give a whole different set of percentages.

No, I don't think these programs and calculators are very useful other than for telling you how typical you are for your specific place and time. National borders have been too fluid in Europe and there's been too much moving around. They're not going to be able to tell me the only other things that would interest me, such as how much "Roman", or Etruscan, or Celt, or Lombard I am, although the ones based on ancient samples can tell me pretty accurately how Anatolian Neolithic I am, or steppe herder, or WHG, so maybe with enough ancient samples someday we'll get calculators that could do this. Of course, we would have to prepare to be disappointed in that case. I'm going to be really bummed out if I have no Etruscan in me, for example, given that I've been studying them and romanticizing them since I was in university.

 

[davef]

@Angela
I think DNA Land called it "South European". Balkan is Albanian + Bulgarian + Greek, and South/Central European is Bergamo + Tuscan, isn't that right?

@Sile
51%!? It's really hard to believe in such number, especially if we consider DNA Land is based on modern people. Besides, don't you think odd a Venetian being closer to Balkan than to Bergamo? Likely the link you mentioned helps to explain the result, but it would be still a bad result, imo, even if Bessica/Bessega (where a grandfather of my mother had roots) has been colonized by "Bessoi" soldiers in Roman times.
Btw, the Balkan cluster exists also in 23andMe, and my mother gets between 7 and 8% there (version 4). Well, it seems to me there are sufficient evidences (see also previous posts) showing DNA Land "have much room for improvement", as davef says.

Just read a result for a south italian; he scored about 50% Ashkenazi/Levantine so yes there's room!

 

[Sile]

@Angela
I think DNA Land called it "South European". Balkan is Albanian + Bulgarian + Greek, and South/Central European is Bergamo + Tuscan, isn't that right?

@Sile
51%!? It's really hard to believe in such number, especially if we consider DNA Land is based on modern people. Besides, don't you think odd a Venetian being closer to Balkan than to Bergamo? Likely the link you mentioned helps to explain the result, but it would be still a bad result, imo, even if Bessica/Bessega (where a grandfather of my mother had roots) has been colonized by "Bessoi" soldiers in Roman times.
Btw, the Balkan cluster exists also in 23andMe, and my mother gets between 7 and 8% there (version 4). Well, it seems to me there are sufficient evidences (see also previous posts) showing DNA Land "have much room for improvement", as davef says.

Bessoi "Roman" troops are from Bessi Thracian tribe on the modern border of Bulgaria and Greece. Many Bessi fled other Thracian tribes to seek help by Rome.

You should know the history of Bessica, a frazione of the town of Loria in Veneto ..............I seen this story as my mother's line is directly north of Loria in San Zenone.

BTW There are 3 women of Loria that married into my uncles ( mothers line ) .............................If you privately send me your surname , I will ask my mother

 

[Sile]

Balkans..................what does balkans represent in genetics.

Some have Romania and Slovenia in the Balkans and some exclude them as part of the Balkans ................I have yet to see what is Genetics Balkans

 

[Pax Augusta]

Personally, I wouldn't take too seriously DNA-LAND.

 

[Sile]

mine is below

[TD="class: legend"]West Eurasian 100%[/TD]
[TD="class: legend"]South European 58%[/TD]
[TD="class: legend last"]South/Central European 39%[/TD]

[TD="class: legend last"]Balkan 19%[/TD]

[TD="class: legend last, colspan: 2"]Northwest European 27%[/TD]

[TD="class: legend last, colspan: 2"]Sardinian 8.4%[/TD]

[TD="class: legend last, colspan: 2"]Ambiguous 3.5%[/TD]

[TD="class: legend last, colspan: 2"]North Slavic 3%[/TD]

Eurogenes has North_italian markers ( most likely the last calculator to use them apart from Mdlp23

mine below

K13 Oracle ref data revised 21 Nov 2013

Admix Results (sorted):

Population

North_Atlantic

[TD="align: center"] # [/TD]

[TD="align: right"] Percent [/TD]

[TD="align: center"]1[/TD]

[TD="width: 50, align: right"]29.88[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]2[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]West_Med[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]22.94[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]East_Med[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]17.23[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]4[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]Baltic[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]17.04[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]West_Asian[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]8.44[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]6[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]Red_Sea[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]2.34[/TD]

Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 North_Italian @ 6.760091
2 Tuscan @ 10.795969
3 Romanian @ 11.411736
4 Bulgarian @ 12.733378
5 Portuguese @ 12.821866
6 Serbian @ 12.969690
7 Spanish_Extremadura @ 13.613523
8 Spanish_Galicia @ 13.654930
9 Greek_Thessaly @ 14.260424
10 Spanish_Cataluna @ 14.529769
11 Spanish_Murcia @ 15.000357
12 Spanish_Valencia @ 15.101360
13 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 15.240896
14 Spanish_Andalucia @ 15.292781
15 French @ 15.305198
16 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 16.560854
17 Italian_Abruzzo @ 17.069130
18 Spanish_Cantabria @ 17.566936
19 West_Sicilian @ 17.631674
20 Southwest_French @ 18.649832


and


MDLP K23b Oracle Rev 2014 Sep 16



Admix Results (sorted):

Population

[TD="align: center"] # [/TD]

[TD="align: right"] Percent [/TD]

[TD="align: center"]1[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]European_Early_Farmers[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]29.03[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]2[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]Caucasian[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]27.88[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]European_Hunters_Gatherers[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]25.56[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]4[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]South_Central_Asian[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]5.03[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]Near_East[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]4.22[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]6[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]North_African[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]4.16[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]7[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]Ancestral_Altaic[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]3.18[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]8[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]Melano_Polynesian[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]0.75[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]9[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]South_Indian[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]0.2[/TD]

Single Population Sharing:

Population (source)

[TD="align: center"] # [/TD]

[TD="align: right"] Distance [/TD]

[TD="align: center"]1[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Italian_North ( )[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]2.33[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]2[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]German-Volga ( )[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]7.59[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]South_German ( )[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]8.16[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]4[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Italian_Piedmont ( )[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]9.46[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Italian_Bergamo ( )[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]9.88[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]6[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Austrian ( )[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]9.97[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]7[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Italian_Tuscan ( )[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]10.27[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]8[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Belgian ( )[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]11.31[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]9[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Frisian ( )[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]11.49[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]10[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Dutch ( )[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]12.02[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]11[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]North_German ( )[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]12.38[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]12[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Hungarian ( )[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]12.9[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]13[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Slovenian ( )[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]12.94[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]14[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Irish ( )[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]13.31[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]15[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Serb_Serbia ( )[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]13.33[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]16[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Italian_Abruzzo ( )[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]13.61[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]17[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]English ( )[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]13.62[/TD]

The fabricated story by someone on my German-Volga link is that it is Balkar people who are a mix of Avars and Bulgars ( who where around the south Volga area ).......I doubt this, but I am unsure

 

[Angela]

Just read a result for a south italian; he scored about 50% Ashkenazi/Levantine so yes there's room!

What, did Sikelliot pull another "exotic" southern Italian set of results out of his hat? It must be like Nanny's bag in Mary Poppins; it's never empty, always something more to pull out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AivZSC9J3Rs

Why don't any of these people ever post their own results, or contact an actual Italian? If you do come into contact with them, tell them we'd love to speak to them here, in Italian or dialect as they prefer, and find out how much they know about all four of their grandparents.

 

[Regio X]

I'm sure you know better than I do. I don't pay very much attention to these things any more. Really, it's only ancient dna and how it proves or disproves archaeology and ancient history that interests me.

What I do know is that on Kurd's calculator with no Bergamo or Tuscan reference samples, I always come out as someone from the Balkans, usually Bulgarian or Albanian or something in the top two.

Cavalli-Sforza pointed out forty years ago that northern Italians are close to the people of the northern Balkans (not Greeks). That's old hat. However, a calculator that tells me I'm Bulgarian is useless because I'm not. On any calculator with Bergamo and Tuscan samples I'm right between them. When the "North Italy" sample from Piemonte is included, I'm closest to them. Obviously, calculators with those reference samples are better at "placing" me.

This dividing Europe into "clusters" is fraught with difficulty, especially in southern Europe. DNA Land has obviously aggregated those alleles which northern Italians share with Balkan peoples, and includes them in the Balkans cluster or labels them as "Balkan". If they created a "Northern Italian" cluster of those shared north Italian/Balkan genes and called them north Italian, people in the Balkans would get big North Italian percentages. One isn't more "right" than another.

That makes a lot of sense. So DNA Land should try something like a "Broadly South", like in 23andMe. In fact, the way it is now, without this kind of label, I would say neither the "Northwest European" percentage could be much higher - or even higher - than the "South/Central European" (Bergamo + Tuscan) percentage, in our context.
The same here: in Gedmatch, when "North Italy" and/or "Tuscan" are present, most of times they're the first populations in my oracle. MDLP K13's seems the best.

What I do know is that northern Italians are not Bulgarians, and Tuscans are not Albanians, even if they might place relatively near each other on a PCA plot or they share some alleles. Yes, they were equally impacted by certain population migrations, but on the other hand, there are definite differences in terms of which "northern" or central European groups affected them, as just one example. Northern Italians got more from the "Celts" and the "Germanics", although the Balkans got some. On the other hand, the Balkans got more influence from the "Slavs", and even in some cases from the Central Asiatics. So, they're not the same people, and any calculator that gives that impression isn't any good.

Obviously, we know that someone from the Veneto should be closer to someone from Bergamo or Brescia than to someone from Bulgaria.

Perfect!

Oh, Genographic is another example. Do they still cluster Italians and Greeks together? That's bound to give a whole different set of percentages.

No, I don't think these programs and calculators are very useful other than for telling you how typical you are for your specific place and time. National borders have been too fluid in Europe and there's been too much moving around. They're not going to be able to tell me the only other things that would interest me, such as how much "Roman", or Etruscan, or Celt, or Lombard I am, although the ones based on ancient samples can tell me pretty accurately how Anatolian Neolithic I am, or steppe herder, or WHG, so maybe with enough ancient samples someday we'll get calculators that could do this. Of course, we would have to prepare to be disappointed in that case. I'm going to be really bummed out if I have no Etruscan in me, for example, given that I've been studying them and romanticizing them since I was in university.

I have always been curious about the migrations around the world, and naturally even more about the migrations to North Italy from other lands in the past centuries or millennia. Doing the tests, besides helping research somehow, find relatives etc., I would have at least an idea about how these migrations affected me, how close or how far in genetic sense I am from a given people or person, with Italian/Venetian background or not, and stuff like that. My interest on genetics in general was born on the way, and it was a plus. Particularly, I think the tests provided a satisfactory notion on that, but, like you, I want more, of course. It would be really amazing if it was possible to calculate how much Etruscan we are, for example. Yes, someday...

Bessoi "Roman" troops are from Bessi Thracian tribe on the modern border of Bulgaria and Greece. Many Bessi fled other Thracian tribes to seek help by Rome.

You should know the history of Bessica, a frazione of the town of Loria in Veneto ..............I seen this story as my mother's line is directly north of Loria in San Zenone.

BTW There are 3 women of Loria that married into my uncles ( mothers line ) .............................If you privately send me your surname , I will ask my mother

I have two ggggg-grandparents from San Zenone, related to the Bessica's branch. heheh I'm going to send you a message.

Balkans..................what does balkans represent in genetics.

Some have Romania and Slovenia in the Balkans and some exclude them as part of the Balkans ................I have yet to see what is Genetics Balkans

Specifically in DNA Land:

Balkan
Includes: Albanian in Albania; Bulgarian in Bulgaria and Greek in (2 sites) Greece
Does not include: Egyptian in (2 sites) Egypt; Belarusian in Belarus; Italian/EastSicilian, Italian/Bergamo and Toscani in (Bergamo and 2 other sites) Italy; Lithuanian in Lithuania; Ashkenazi Jew in Poland; Turkish in (Aydin, Balikesir and Istanbul) Turkey; Ukrainian in (East) Ukraine and Ashkenazi Jew from East Europe especially Lithuania (expat in Baltimore MD)

South/Central European
Includes: Italian/Bergamo, Italian/Tuscan and Toscani in (Bergamo, Tuscany and 1 other site) Italy
Does not include: Albanian in Albania; Basque/French in France; Italian/EastSicilian, Italian/WestSicilian and Sardinian in (Sardinia and 2 other sites) Italy and Lithuanian in Lithuania

What, did Sikelliot pull another "exotic" southern Italian set of results out of his hat? It must be like Nanny's bag in Mary Poppins; it's never empty, always something more to pull out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AivZSC9J3Rs

Why don't any of these people ever post their own results, or contact an actual Italian? If you do come into contact with them, tell them we'd love to speak to them here, in Italian or dialect as they prefer, and find out how much they know about all four of their grandparents.

Great movie!

 

[Hauteville]

Just read a result for a south italian; he scored about 50% Ashkenazi/Levantine so yes there's room!

Southern Italy fit into Mediterranean Islander cluster while Ashkenazi have their own cluster too.

 

[Pax Augusta]

MDLP K23b Oracle Rev 2014 Sep 16



Admix Results (sorted):

Population

[TD="align: center"] # [/TD]

[TD="align: right"] Percent [/TD]

[TD="align: center"]1[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]European_Early_Farmers[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]29.03[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]2[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]Caucasian[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]27.88[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]European_Hunters_Gatherers[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]25.56[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]4[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]South_Central_Asian[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]5.03[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]Near_East[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]4.22[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]6[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]North_African[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]4.16[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]7[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]Ancestral_Altaic[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]3.18[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]8[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]Melano_Polynesian[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]0.75[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]9[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]South_Indian[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]0.2[/TD]

Single Population Sharing:

Population (source)

[TD="align: center"] # [/TD]

[TD="align: right"] Distance [/TD]

[TD="align: center"]1[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Italian_North ( )[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]2.33[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]2[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]German-Volga ( )[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]7.59[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]South_German ( )[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]8.16[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]4[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Italian_Piedmont ( )[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]9.46[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Italian_Bergamo ( )[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]9.88[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]6[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Austrian ( )[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]9.97[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]7[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Italian_Tuscan ( )[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]10.27[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]8[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Belgian ( )[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]11.31[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]9[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Frisian ( )[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]11.49[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]10[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Dutch ( )[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]12.02[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]11[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]North_German ( )[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]12.38[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]12[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Hungarian ( )[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]12.9[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]13[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Slovenian ( )[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]12.94[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]14[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Irish ( )[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]13.31[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]15[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Serb_Serbia ( )[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]13.33[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]16[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Italian_Abruzzo ( )[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]13.61[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]17[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]English ( )[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]13.62[/TD]

The fabricated story by someone on my German-Volga link is that it is Balkar people who are a mix of Avars and Bulgars ( who where around the south Volga area ).......I doubt this, but I am unsure

German-Volga comes out also in the results of this woman from Asiago Altopiano, high plateau northwest of Vicenza, Veneto, North-East Italy.


Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Italian_North ( ) 3.53
2 Italian_Piedmont ( ) 8.08
3 Italian_Tuscan ( ) 8.21
4 German-Volga ( ) 9.9
5 Serb_Serbia ( ) 10.55
6 Austrian ( ) 10.69
7 South_German ( ) 10.84
8 Italian_Bergamo ( ) 10.96
9 Italian_Abruzzo ( ) 11.15
10 Greek_Northwest ( ) 12.21
11 Slovenian ( ) 12.22
12 Hungarian ( ) 12.35
13 Sicilian_Trapani ( ) 12.43
14 Montenegrian ( ) 12.49
15 Kosovar ( ) 12.56
16 Sicilian_West ( ) 12.63
17 Hungarian_Budapest ( ) 13.21
18 Maltese ( ) 13.71
19 Bulgarian ( ) 13.86
20 Serb_BH ( ) 14.01

 

[davef]

What's up with these hierarchys? For example south/Central Europe breaks down into Tuscany and north italy and Balkans breaks down into Albania, Bulgaria, med islander breaks down into Sicily, Malta, Cyprus etc.My confusion stems from the fact that Sicily and Cyprus, as an example are clearly differnt genetically so why are they grouped into the same category?