Dinarid
Regular Member
- Messages
- 411
- Reaction score
- 44
- Points
- 0
- Ethnic group
- Herzegovinan Croat
- Y-DNA haplogroup
- I2a1b – Dinaric
- mtDNA haplogroup
- H1
No facts presented on here will stop the conspiracy theories. Facts just don't matter.
Politics Balkanian disagreements.
- Thread starter LeBrok
- Start date
Yes, yesterday Albania was atheist country in the time of communist dictator, but times changed.
It is process.
Today is a such situation.
[h=1]Uncontrolled Mosques Proliferate in Albania[/h] http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/art...n-muslim-over-uncontrolled-mosques-12-17-2015
New data claim as many as 200 of the 727 mosques in Albania operate outside legal standards and Muslim Community regulation - raising fears about the potential growth of radical Islamist ideas.
...
Tomorrow. You can find a lot of examples how process flows.
Boreas
Regular Member
- Messages
- 708
- Reaction score
- 98
- Points
- 0
- Location
- Istanbul
- Ethnic group
- Rumî
- Y-DNA haplogroup
- R-YP346
- mtDNA haplogroup
- J1b1b1
Let me burn your brains; a survey from Turkey
"the Social, Economic and Cultural Research Center (SEKAM) also released the findings of a new survey about Turkish youth religiosity, emphasizing that people fail to use the right terminology in defining their way of approaching God. The survey suggests that 61% of those who define themselves as “atheists” express that they believe in God; 59% of those in the same group fast in the month of Ramadan, 13% pray five times a day and 43% go to mosque for Friday prayers. What’s more interesting is that 17.8% of those who define themselves as “Islamist” have never prayed to God.
Read more: http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2013/11/turkey-state-religion-surveys.html#ixzz4HbdgSZPr"
"the Social, Economic and Cultural Research Center (SEKAM) also released the findings of a new survey about Turkish youth religiosity, emphasizing that people fail to use the right terminology in defining their way of approaching God. The survey suggests that 61% of those who define themselves as “atheists” express that they believe in God; 59% of those in the same group fast in the month of Ramadan, 13% pray five times a day and 43% go to mosque for Friday prayers. What’s more interesting is that 17.8% of those who define themselves as “Islamist” have never prayed to God.
Read more: http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2013/11/turkey-state-religion-surveys.html#ixzz4HbdgSZPr"
Boreas, unrelated to the research there are some reasons why Balkan and European Muslims can be more radicalized.
But because it can be very wider topic here will be only several points:
1.
The legacy of Kemal Pasha Ataturk remained in Turkey, the republic was built on his principles, in Turkey Ataturk is still respected.
In the Balkan is otherwise. For example in Albania legacy of Enver Hoxha is much smaller, his communist state has gone.
2.
Turkey is sending missionaries into the world, missionaries from another country are no need to go to Turkey.
Quite the opposite is in the Balkans, where missionaries come from Turkey, Arab world, Iran, even Pakistan etc. They are mainly directed at children and youth, it is no wonder that children teach the religion their fathers and grandfathers.
3.
In Turkey religious practice is is largely standardized, it still reduces the opportunity for missionary work on the side.
In the Balkans we see problem, plus missionaries teach people new practice. This produces many problems.
...
Conclusion is that in the Balkans religious will be strengthen and will be spread. In Turkey will certainly have growth, but at a slower pace.
Nik
Banned
- Messages
- 458
- Reaction score
- 114
- Points
- 0
- Ethnic group
- Albanian
- Y-DNA haplogroup
- E-V13>CTS9320>Z38456
Dude, I am from Albania and I lived there most of my life as well as travelling every 3-4 months. If such changes were to be true I would notice it even among my friends and acquaintances, wouldnt I?
Throwing a few newspaper articles here and there won't change the fact that the majority (millions of people) are not as u wish them to be unfortunately. So focus on those few hundred peope the articles talk about and leave the rest alone.
The registered nr of people going to Mosques was around 20,000 both in Kosovo and Albania. And most of them r just peaceful people minding their business, loving their families and doing normal human daily activities.
No need to believe you, I chill with Greeks and have fun every day, although I have more Serbian good friends.
Dude, I am from Albania and I lived there most of my life as well as travelling every 3-4 months. If such changes were to be true I would notice it even among my friends and acquaintances, wouldnt I?
Throwing a few newspaper articles here and there won't change the fact that the majority (millions of people) are not as u wish them to be unfortunately. So focus on those few hundred peope the articles talk about and leave the rest alone.
The registered nr of people going to Mosques was around 20,000 both in Kosovo and Albania. And most of them r just peaceful people minding their business, loving their families and doing normal human daily activities.
No need to believe you, I chill with Greeks and have fun every day, although I have more Serbian good friends.
You think media and expert papers lie? Enjoy in Switzerland.
...
It is process. I told my Albanian friends 10 years before, they didn't believe me, but today they say to me how I know.
There is science behind it, but it requires time and effort for me to explain.
But every country is experiencing similar stages. Process is similar.
There are good cases for learning. For example Lebanon. Plus it has similarities with Albania in terms of the size of the country and many other things.
You can read history of Lebanon and how process flows.
Nik
Banned
- Messages
- 458
- Reaction score
- 114
- Points
- 0
- Ethnic group
- Albanian
- Y-DNA haplogroup
- E-V13>CTS9320>Z38456
I didnt disagree with what ur saying or the so-called Process of urs, just stating that the issue is exaggerated.
What u also dont seem to consider is the fact u dont how many of these radical elements are actually Albanian. U seem like a well informed guy, so I trust ur aware of the fact that after Serbia, Bosnia and Montenegro gained their independence from the Ottoman Empire, ur governments kicked out the Turkish/Muslim population and they settled in Albania, although part of them left for Anatolia later. I grew up in Albania myself and I know countless examples of families of Turkish origin (especially in Central Albania), and even Egyptian and Tunisian families in Shkodra. Although mixed, 99% of these people still retain their exotic features and inherit the Pro-Ottoman and religious fanatism. There r even Kurdish families in North Eastern Albania as well as a few in Shkodra.
Next thing ur not considering is the rural origin and poverty of many of them, which is always associated with increased religiosity. Give this people 1 generation and half of them will join the rest in terms of mentality.
If there's smth strange in today's Albania's culture, its the impressively high degree of openness and speed of absorbing Western characteristics, 90% of which Im not fond of personally.
Its starting to remind me more and more of Belgrade with its silicon ladies and extravagant lifestyle. Dont get me wrong, I've enjoyed my share of these goods but one starts to think twice before deciding to marry a girl raised in that environment.
FBS
Regular Member
- Messages
- 408
- Reaction score
- 89
- Points
- 28
- Location
- Prishtinë, Kosovo
- Ethnic group
- Kosovar-Albanian
- Y-DNA haplogroup
- E1b1b1a2*
- mtDNA haplogroup
- J1c3
I guess Zlata Numanagic would not agree with some of her compatriots here posting all sort of rubbish about Albanians. This just proves it (for those who understand slavic) http://www.kurir.rs/stars/zlata-num...-albancima-prodaje-srpska-jela-clanak-2346149 and for albanian speakers (sorry no english version) https://www.voal.ch/aktorja-e-madhe-serbe-hap-restorant-ne-sarande-interviste/
Two Serbian ladies opening a business in Albania, wait what??!! Really...
Two Serbian ladies opening a business in Albania, wait what??!! Really...
Serbs are cosmopolitan. World trends are quickly accepted. Yes, conservative people more like girls as Albanian or Moldovan. But most people are completely accustomed to modern behavior. It is our way of life, our culture.
Yes it is too different compared to the Balkan environment. So, Serbian women are too free to Balkan standards.
I'm very liberal on these issues. Everyone can do what she or he wants (except, of course, illegal behavior). If I am promiscuous, why do I defend women to be promiscuous?
Women need to be self-conscious, well-educated, to progress, well earning, to be managers. I appreciate such women, I only like have such girlfriends, not women who stay at home within the four walls.
Yes in Serbia there are no women who like to be at home within four walls, and I think it is very good for society. My opinion is, society should uses full potential all individuals in society, men and women. And all of groups and minorities in society.
A lot of Albanians in Kosovo love Serbian state, society, and social freedom, if you don't believe me you can ask some older Albanian who lived in Serbia.
..
Yes, silicones are popular in Serbia. Frankly, I prefer women with smaller breasts. But, if some women prefer to install larger breasts or anything else let them do what they like. And it is good business and creates new jobs.
Dinarid
Regular Member
- Messages
- 411
- Reaction score
- 44
- Points
- 0
- Ethnic group
- Herzegovinan Croat
- Y-DNA haplogroup
- I2a1b – Dinaric
- mtDNA haplogroup
- H1
Lebanon has a multitude of different groups who identify by religion over ethnicity, whereas Albanians see themselves as Albanians of either Christianity (Catholic or Orthodox) or Islam.
Nik
Banned
- Messages
- 458
- Reaction score
- 114
- Points
- 0
- Ethnic group
- Albanian
- Y-DNA haplogroup
- E-V13>CTS9320>Z38456
Garrick, I really think we have language barriers. Not a single thing I say is understood and the way you type looks like Google Translator. I'll end our conversation here as u i dont like posting in order to explain my posts. I hope one day u will succeed with ur Free Dacian Carpi theories.
Dinarid, his hatred cannot be cured by facts. He will never let go of the idea that Albania is a backward Muslim country with women staying within 4 walls or whatever. Little does this guy know that Albania was the most open minded country in the Balkans religion wise, and probably one of the most open minded ones in Europe. Nowhere in the world u would see people going to Mosques on Fridays and to Churches on Sundays, drinking alcohol and doing as they pleased, by disregarding religion whenever it tried to get into their way. If the 17th and 18th century were like that, imagine now. But who am I convincing?!
Dinarid, his hatred cannot be cured by facts. He will never let go of the idea that Albania is a backward Muslim country with women staying within 4 walls or whatever. Little does this guy know that Albania was the most open minded country in the Balkans religion wise, and probably one of the most open minded ones in Europe. Nowhere in the world u would see people going to Mosques on Fridays and to Churches on Sundays, drinking alcohol and doing as they pleased, by disregarding religion whenever it tried to get into their way. If the 17th and 18th century were like that, imagine now. But who am I convincing?!
LABERIA
Banned
- Messages
- 1,969
- Reaction score
- 294
- Points
- 83
- Ethnic group
- Albanian
Last edited:
Dinarid
Regular Member
- Messages
- 411
- Reaction score
- 44
- Points
- 0
- Ethnic group
- Herzegovinan Croat
- Y-DNA haplogroup
- I2a1b – Dinaric
- mtDNA haplogroup
- H1
I think it's just conspiratorial, to promote a specific agenda.
Dinarid.
There is science behind it.
You can think that Spencer, Robertson, Mohler, Pipes, Ye'or and many other are conspiratorial but no.
Islam is completely different civilization, and it should be understand.
For example, in Islamic countries process of democratization always brings strengthening of Islamic movements and parties.
You have a lot of examples where dictators of all colours hold things under control. However after their government countries are Islamized again.
It is process, somewhere is faster, somewhere is slower.
Things are held under control the best in Turkey, but it is understandable, West did this. But even in Turkey religion remained strong and we see it entered in main lever of government and society.
...
Europeans are educational for democracy, rights and freedoms, and in my opinion it is the best what human brain created.
But unfortunately in other system democracy doesn't results as in our civilization.
And this is big question, whether Islamic countries need democracy or not, or rather, what democracy should be in Islamic countries that religious groups do not take the society in total. No one knows to this formula, unfortunately.
Why is so?
Because, Islam is not only religion, Islam is political and legal system, sociocultural system, includes all from male-female relations to the organization of the whole society. Islam is totality, and for life of human being, and for whole society.
There is science behind it.
You can think that Spencer, Robertson, Mohler, Pipes, Ye'or and many other are conspiratorial but no.
Islam is completely different civilization, and it should be understand.
For example, in Islamic countries process of democratization always brings strengthening of Islamic movements and parties.
You have a lot of examples where dictators of all colours hold things under control. However after their government countries are Islamized again.
It is process, somewhere is faster, somewhere is slower.
Things are held under control the best in Turkey, but it is understandable, West did this. But even in Turkey religion remained strong and we see it entered in main lever of government and society.
...
Europeans are educational for democracy, rights and freedoms, and in my opinion it is the best what human brain created.
But unfortunately in other system democracy doesn't results as in our civilization.
And this is big question, whether Islamic countries need democracy or not, or rather, what democracy should be in Islamic countries that religious groups do not take the society in total. No one knows to this formula, unfortunately.
Why is so?
Because, Islam is not only religion, Islam is political and legal system, sociocultural system, includes all from male-female relations to the organization of the whole society. Islam is totality, and for life of human being, and for whole society.
LABERIA
Banned
- Messages
- 1,969
- Reaction score
- 294
- Points
- 83
- Ethnic group
- Albanian
Well, i can say that you are partially correct. It`s true that the role of the woman is important in the human society, women are the half of the population. First of all the problem is economic. What kind of economy can have an country where half of manpower is out of market, closed in home as happen in many muslim countries. One day the the oil wells will stop their production.
But i insist, the key is the division between state and religion. This is an process that happened in West Europe and took many centuries. This process unfortunately has not happen in other part of the world. Let me give you an couple of examples. In Turkey, an elite identified with charismatic personality of Ataturk, tried to impose to the rest of the populations this modern western concepts of secularism. The last events in Turkey are a confirmation that the process has failed.
But the problem is not only in the muslim world. For example in ex-Yugoslavia, the communist elite tried to do the same process. Even there the process is failed. What is the difference between the horrible crimes commited by serbian army against the other populations, be there muslims or catholics, with the blessing of serb orthodox church and the crimes of ISIS today blessed by this crazy imams? Nothing. The only difference is that the serb army was much more powerful and efficient than the today ISIS. What is the difference between the destruction of Palmyra and the shelling of Dubrovnik? Both are World Heritage Sites. Both were destroyed with the blessing of this criminal imams and serb orthodox priests.
So, as a conclusion, the problem is not just religion per se. The problem is the relation and the role of religion in this societies. This situation can not be resolved with the good willing of an small political elite. This are long and complicate processes.
Nik
You're talking about one thing and doing another. Please, it is no offense but where I saw that you are Muslim (or very patriarchal).
When you wrote about Belgrade girls, who how you say have silicones and they are not for marriage, according you.
...
Everyone is entitled to their own way of life. If any girl likes to have silicones it is her right, if she likes a night outs, this is also her right.
If I'm promiscuous, why I should debate whether the girl should be promiscuous, every girl can do what she wants.
We Serbs are very free, it is our culture, our way of life.
It is wrong if someone thinks that women of his religion/nation should be at home, and he will have fun with foreigner girls, and woman who is between four walls waiting for him for marriage.
And it is much better that women be free, to learn, progress, visit the world.
Society can progress only if it uses full potential of women.
Society with women between four walls at least 50% potential loses. And much more due to multiplication and synergy effect.
This thread has been viewed 455578 times.