Politics Balkanian disagreements.

[VMRO1893]

I'm not sure if he is going to believe you. He is very afraid of Muslims, so they easily multiply in his eyes.
Garrick, everything will be fine.

I should have added that in 1948 the numbers were 72% Christian and 27% Muslim. So the change was not as dramatic for the last 50 years as the Pew research predicts for the next 50 years. Not sure if Pew takes into a/c emigration rates of Albanians to western Europe from Macedonia, or the fact that birth rates have stabilized for Macedonians and Albanians in most recent numbers.

 

[Dinarid]

Dinarid, you know that Albania was atheistic country. Communist Enver Hoxha arranged the life of Albanians.

Ger Duijzings

"However, in 1967 two decades after the communist rise to power Enver Hoxha's Stalinist regime, prohibited all forms of religious activity".

In SR Serbia - AP Kosovo and Metohiya and SR Macedonia situation were completely different.

And you can see, in Albania situation changed. Enver Hoxha died 1985, over 30 years passed.

But it is natural, why people to be atheists if they don't want.

Pew gives data about every country and these data are relevant, whole world use them.

About 16% people in the world are not affiliated with religion and 3/4 are in Asia.

And what is interesting, a lot of people today think that this is century of reduction of religion, but NO.

According Pew projections 2050 about 13% people in the world will not be affiliated with religion, 3% less than today!

...
You know situation in Bosnia and Herzegovina. Similar is somewhere in the Balkans.

In principle we should believe in research organizations and their experts.

What they tell us is interesting, you should analyze their data.


According Pew

Bosnia and Herzegovina

2010

Christians 1,970,000 52.3%

Muslims 1,700,000 45.2%


2050

Christians 1,270,000 48.5%

Muslims 1,290,000 49.4%


Macedonia

2010

Christians 1,220,000 (59.3%)

Muslims 810,000 (39.3%)

2050

Christians 710,000 (42.7%)

Muslims 930,000 (56.2%)

I really can't get on board with this conspiratorial thinking. You renounce nationalism yet try to paint Greater Albania as a threat to the entire peninsula on behalf of, most likely, Serbia. It would make sense if you believed in some kind of greater Albanian jihad, but you seem so vested in convincing everyone that Albanians are a threat to the whole region it makes me suspicious. I am proud to call myself a nationalist, and admit that I have an agenda. Yet I don't think Bulgaria for example has anything to worry about from Islamic Bosnia so when I talk to Bulgarians about the oppression of Bosnian Croats and Bosnian Serbs, although I find common ground with them in the anti-Islamic cause, it's just because I would like to raise awareness and sympathy for my people's cause.

Also it's funny that according to your source in 2050 the proportion of Muslims will be lower than it is now (50,1%)

 

[Dinarid]

I'm not sure if he is going to believe you. He is very afraid of Muslims, so they easily multiply in his eyes.
Garrick, everything will be fine.

Oh great, here we go. No, most people on here aren't very thrilled about the idea of Islam in our countries. We're not going to sing the praises of Islam. Why should we?
As far as Muslims, no one here has insulted them. They just have a very long history as our oppressors, that's all.

 

[Garrick]

The figures for Macedonia are inflated. In 2002 Macedonia was 65% Christian and 33% Muslim. Muslim numbers do not rise that fast.

These are official data of Pew Research Center. I wanted that someone from Macedonia gives comment.

Otherwise I can agree with you. Because it is easy to conclude about data for Albanians, Turks and Bosniacs it is possible researchers of Pew increased number of Macedonian Muslims (Torbeshs) and Muslim Roma and added to total Muslim population in Macedonia, if you want you can see their website and read about their research methodology.

Will there be a situation in 2050 how Pew researchers argue it depends on many factors.

 

[LABERIA]

Well I do see Nordicists from Stormfront and the like spewing their vitriolic hatred of Albanians because apparently all "true" Europeans need to belong to the Nordic race and have pasty skin.

How much is important in the life of the Europeans Stormfront? No one gives importance to the collections of cherrypicked photos that usually are posted in Taxonomy threads in different forums. A nation is totally a different thing. Albanians are a nation with important but not decisive admixtures. We have see other nations disappeared from the history and latter reinvented for geopolitical agenda. The main feature of a nation is the language. The fact that from around one century we have an Albanian written language, say a lot. Don't forget, the Albanian language is the only indoeuropean language, the use of it was forbiden by Imperial decree, with the ferman of Sultan. With the Albanian language didn't happened what happen with other Balkan languages.

EDIT.
BTW, what`s the opinion of Stormfronters about this article, always if this is historically accurate:
https://www.quora.com/How-is-Queen-Elizabeth-a-descendant-from-the-Prophet-Muhammed

 

[LABERIA]

I really can't get on board with this conspiratorial thinking. You renounce nationalism yet try to paint Greater Albania as a threat to the entire peninsula on behalf of, most likely, Serbia. It would make sense if you believed in some kind of greater Albanian jihad, but you seem so vested in convincing everyone that Albanians are a threat to the whole region it makes me suspicious. I am proud to call myself a nationalist, and admit that I have an agenda. Yet I don't think Bulgaria for example has anything to worry about from Islamic Bosnia so when I talk to Bulgarians about the oppression of Bosnian Croats and Bosnian Serbs, although I find common ground with them in the anti-Islamic cause, it's just because I would like to raise awareness and sympathy for my people's cause.

Also it's funny that according to your source in 2050 the proportion of Muslims will be lower than it is now (50,1%)

Does not exist an Greater Albania ideology.

 

[Garrick]

I really can't get on board with this conspiratorial thinking. You renounce nationalism yet try to paint Greater Albania as a threat to the entire peninsula on behalf of, most likely, Serbia. It would make sense if you believed in some kind of greater Albanian jihad, but you seem so vested in convincing everyone that Albanians are a threat to the whole region it makes me suspicious. I am proud to call myself a nationalist, and admit that I have an agenda. Yet I don't think Bulgaria for example has anything to worry about from Islamic Bosnia so when I talk to Bulgarians about the oppression of Bosnian Croats and Bosnian Serbs, although I find common ground with them in the anti-Islamic cause, it's just because I would like to raise awareness and sympathy for my people's cause.

Also it's funny that according to your source in 2050 the proportion of Muslims will be lower than it is now (50,1%)

Generally people can have trust in data of Pew Research Center.

It is very respectable source cited everywhere by world.

Of course, if you think that Pew data are not adequate, for example that any other big religion have fastest grow you should give any source which argues it.

We can always criticize the experts if we do not like their data, but we have to have some records on the basis of which we say that someone's expertise is not good.

Everyone can write to them if he or she think that their data for any country are not adequate, they give methodology in their very detailed website and how they do.

Their data are not always same as in official census of states, their researchers collect and analyze data from more sources, in addition many countries do not have census by religion.

Pew Research Center is most attacked from nationalists who think they reduce of number of Muslims in Western Europe.

Again everyone can see their projections:

April 2, 2015

Religious Composition by Country, 2010-2050

The religious profile of the world is rapidly changing, driven primarily by differences in fertility rates and the size of youth populations among the world’s major religions, as well as by people switching faiths. The table below details the estimated religious composition of 198 countries and territories for 2010 to 2050. See “The Future of World Religions: Population Growth Projections, 2010-2050” for more information on these projections, or download the data.


http://www.pewforum.org/2015/04/02/religious-projection-table/2050/number/Europe/

Demographic Study

April 2, 2015

The Future of World Religions: Population Growth Projections, 2010-2050

Why Muslims Are Rising Fastest and the Unaffiliated Are Shrinking as a Share of the World’s Population

http://www.pewforum.org/2015/04/02/religious-projections-2010-2050/

 

[Garrick]

I'm not sure if he is going to believe you. He is very afraid of Muslims, so they easily multiply in his eyes.
Garrick, everything will be fine.

LeBrok you surely know about Pew Research Center. I think we discussed about their data several years ago. Yes, people always react when see data and projections, but it is not same who gives data, Pew Research Center is serious researching organization and nothing to do with those who want to make sensationalism.

There is no fear, there are only a reality of a modern world, in principle the people of all religions and atheists should be respected.

But you're surely right, people should enjoy all the beauty and charms of which the world has.

 

[VMRO1893]

I prefer census data and government statistics to anything from a 'think tank'.

 

[Garrick]

I prefer census data and government statistics to anything from a 'think tank'.

Census is important, of course, global research organizations use results of census, but carefully analyze methodology of census, and they have their criteria when make changes.

But there is big difference between national statistics and global research organizations.

National statistics process only one country, global researchers organizations process whole world,

and as a result they are able to follow the trends, analyze many factors and provide projections of what will happen

National statistics do not such studies, nor they have such capacities, and it is not their job to research other countries in the world.

 

[VMRO1893]

Census is important, of course, global research organizations use results of census, but carefully analyze methodology of census, and they have their criteria when make changes.

But there is big difference between national statistics and global research organizations.

National statistics process only one country, global researchers organizations process whole world,

and as a result they are able to follow the trends, analyze many factors and provide projections of what will happen

National statistics do not such studies, nor they have such capacities, and it is not their job to research other countries in the world.

I guess these reports are useful for ringing alarm bells, but they are not beyond challenge.

 

[Garrick]

I guess these reports are useful for ringing alarm bells, but they are not beyond challenge.

Of course, everything should be critically viewed.

What is especially interesting is category - unaffiliated (atheists, agnostics, people who can hold spiritual beliefs).

You can see which societies in Europe are very religious and which no and trends, for example:

Albania 2010 1.4%, 2050 0.4%

Slovenia 2010 18%, 2050 20%

Czech Republic 2010, 76.4% 2050 78.9%

From these data someone can conclude Albanian society is very religious now and even more for four decades and Czech society is very non-religious now and even more tomorrow.

Slovenia is somewhere about European average.

 

[Dinarid]

Of course, everything should be critically viewed.

What is especially interesting is category - unaffiliated (atheists, agnostics, people who can hold spiritual beliefs).

You can see which societies in Europe are very religious and which no and trends, for example:

Albania 2010 1.4%, 2050 0.4%

Slovenia 2010 18%, 2050 20%

Czech Republic 2010, 76.4% 2050 78.9%

From these data someone can conclude Albanian society is very religious now and even more for four decades and Czech society is very non-religious now and even more tomorrow.

Slovenia is somewhere about European average.

Religion just clearly isn't that important for most Albanians. Ask around and you'll see. It's a fact.

 

[A. Papadimitriou]

Of course, everything should be critically viewed.

What is especially interesting is category - unaffiliated (atheists, agnostics, people who can hold spiritual beliefs).

You can see which societies in Europe are very religious and which no and trends, for example:

Albania 2010 1.4%, 2050 0.4%

Slovenia 2010 18%, 2050 20%

Czech Republic 2010, 76.4% 2050 78.9%

From these data someone can conclude Albanian society is very religious now and even more for four decades and Czech society is very non-religious now and even more tomorrow.

Slovenia is somewhere about European average.

Being 'affiliated' doesn't mean that you are 'very religious'. Most 'affiliated' people (everywhere) are selectively religious. Not at all religious is also a possibility (it's just a cultural affiliation sometimes).

This research shows that religion isn't very important for the majority of Albanians.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Importance_of_religion_by_country

 

[Yetos]

Being 'affiliated' doesn't mean that you are 'very religious'. Most 'affiliated' people (everywhere) are selectively religious. Not at all religious is also a possibility (it's just a cultural affiliation sometimes).

This research shows that religion isn't very important for the majority of Albanians.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Importance_of_religion_by_country

it depends on the area,
at South, Skodra and Tyrana ok, but in other reasons religion is no 1.

 

[LABERIA]

it depends on the area,
at South, Skodra and Tyrana ok, but in other reasons religion is no 1.

But Albania this is, South, Shkodra, Tirana, what other reasons are you talking?

 

[Yetos]

But Albania this is, South, Shkodra, Tirana, what other reasons are you talking?

who is he?

do you know his nativity and ethnicity?

 

[Nik]

Religion among Albanians is almost non-existent, especially in Albania.

I've noticed a rise in religious awareness among second/third generation Kosovar immigrants in Europe as a need of self-identification, but yet almost all fail to be categorized within the religious group.

Well, here's my 2 cents, either take it or doubt it and continue believing what makes you happier.

 

[LABERIA]

who is he?

do you know his nativity and ethnicity?

I don't know. Who is he?

 

[Yetos]

Religion among Albanians is almost non-existent, especially in Albania.

I've noticed a rise in religious awareness among second/third generation Kosovar immigrants in Europe as a need of self-identification, but yet almost all fail to be categorized within the religious group.

Well, here's my 2 cents, either take it or doubt it and continue believing what makes you happier.

do not forget to get the rest, the change, of your 2 cents,

infact in many parts of Albania religion is getting so strong that women start to wear things the did not wear before.