Politics Balkanian disagreements.

[Nik]

Oh boy, there we go again.

1) I'm Catholic
2) I don't mind girls having silicon. I mind when I see teenage girls turning into whores and becoming instragram addicts. All they do is post almost pornographic pictures to draw attention and gather some likes and followers.
3) Ur wasting ur time explaining to me the benefits of gender equality as if I'm some backward retard who beats his wife and locks her in the toilet. Don't be Mr Obvious mate.

 

[Dinarid]

Dinarid.

There is science behind it.

You can think that Spencer, Robertson, Mohler, Pipes, Ye'or and many other are conspiratorial but no.

Islam is completely different civilization, and it should be understand.

For example, in Islamic countries process of democratization always brings strengthening of Islamic movements and parties.

You have a lot of examples where dictators of all colours hold things under control. However after their government countries are Islamized again.

It is process, somewhere is faster, somewhere is slower.

Things are held under control the best in Turkey, but it is understandable, West did this. But even in Turkey religion remained strong and we see it entered in main lever of government and society.

...
Europeans are educational for democracy, rights and freedoms, and in my opinion it is the best what human brain created.

But unfortunately in other system democracy doesn't results as in our civilization.

And this is big question, whether Islamic countries need democracy or not, or rather, what democracy should be in Islamic countries that religious groups do not take the society in total. No one knows to this formula, unfortunately.

Why is so?

Because, Islam is not only religion, Islam is political and legal system, sociocultural system, includes all from male-female relations to the organization of the whole society. Islam is totality, and for life of human being, and for whole society.

I agree with what they say about Islam. You however exploit it to promote a Greater Albania threat because of Serbian nationalism.

 

[Garrick]

I agree with what they say about Islam. You however exploit it to promote a Greater Albania threat because of Serbian nationalism.

No. I didn't promote Serbian nationalism. Honestly for me nation is construction of 19th century, and it is not appropriate for 21 century. There is a lot of group in which individual can be and nation is one of them.

But I have no illusion for Balkans, unfortunately. Balkans is zone of poverty. There is risks that many other parts of the world overcome Balkans. Look at Bosnia, it is 103 in the world GDP (PPP) Per capita, several African countries is in front of Bosnia. And other African countries progress too.

And I don't think that lonely Albania is threat, because Albania is poor country too, country from which population leaves for a better life cannot be a threat.

I gave example how process takes place. Lebanon is example how country was prosperous when it was a different situation (different structure of population).

However there is real opportunity that Muslim population begin to dominate the Balkans. Again, it is science. You can see areas in world which yesterday had tiny Muslim population and today they are majority Muslim. How? You can investigate and read and you will understand the ways how this happens.

 

[Dinarid]

You quite obviously do promote it. I have nothing against Serbian nationalism- I wish the Bosnian Serbs luck in reclaiming their land and stopping the oppressive Islamization. However it's very clear that you utilize people's rightful dislike of Islam to promote the idea of an Albanian jihadi threat, in order to benefit Serbia.

 

[Garrick]

You quite obviously do promote it. I have nothing against Serbian nationalism- I wish the Bosnian Serbs luck in reclaiming their land and stopping the oppressive Islamization. However it's very clear that you utilize people's rightful dislike of Islam to promote the idea of an Albanian jihadi threat, in order to benefit Serbia.

It is same as someone says that due to rivalry (with Serbs), Croats are spreading (unconsciously) Islam in the Balkans.

But there were times when Serbs and Croats were allies. I think one of very important events in the Balkans was 1948.

That years Yugoslav nations (Serbs and Croats and others) said No to Stalin.

It was dangerous time when attack could be from four directions, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, and Albania, all Stalin's allies.

Yugoslavs including Serbs and Croats were brave and united. Tito was great man.
...

Islamization of Balkans is possible option. Of course it is not open topic for forum.

And I don't want to be the messenger of bad news, should be optimistic. Better to talk about positive things.

 

[Garrick]

Oh boy, there we go again.

1) I'm Catholic
2) I don't mind girls having silicon. I mind when I see teenage girls turning into whores and becoming instragram addicts. All they do is post almost pornographic pictures to draw attention and gather some likes and followers.
3) Ur wasting ur time explaining to me the benefits of gender equality as if I'm some backward retard who beats his wife and locks her in the toilet. Don't be Mr Obvious mate.

No Nick, you are courage. Because you say about problems that men are reluctant to talk.

If you fall in love with a such girl you have several options: to accept her as she is, to try to change her what it requires your effort and result is uncertain, to raise your hands and find another girl, or you do something original that comes to your mind.

Maybe it is not bad to have a theme for the such conversations but not here. Maybe in the chit chat.

 

[Dinarid]

It is same as someone says that due to rivalry (with Serbs), Croats are spreading (unconsciously) Islam in the Balkans.

But there were times when Serbs and Croats were allies. I think one of very important events in the Balkans was 1948.

That years Yugoslav nations (Serbs and Croats and others) said No to Stalin.

It was dangerous time when attack could be from four directions, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, and Albania, all Stalin's allies.

Yugoslavs including Serbs and Croats were brave and united. Tito was great man.
...

Islamization of Balkans is possible option. Of course it is not open topic for forum.

And I don't want to be the messenger of bad news, should be optimistic. Better to talk about positive things.

You miss the point. I do hope Serbs and Croats work together against Islam- with the rest of the world- but Albanians are not running around spreading it.

 

[Garrick]

You miss the point. I do hope Serbs and Croats work together against Islam- with the rest of the world- but Albanians are not running around spreading it.

When we consider different factors, which all have impact, we cannot exclude Balkan factors. I gave example for Albania as process because everywhere process is similar, in every country there is a local component and different pace, but we can find similarities because root is same. What is especially interesting, one Christian Albanian told me that Enver Hoxha had double standards, and he caused a lot more damage to Christianity in Albania, especially Roman Catholicism, and he forced the cadres in Communist party who were mostly from Muslim families.
...

But here I will say something else. Last year Germany salvaged Balkans accepting 1000000 refugees from Middle East and beyond. They would remain in Greece, Macedonia, Serbia, Bulgaria, and probably Croatia, because Hungary fully closed border. Personally I can be sorry for people but none of these countries has capacity to receive so many people. And these countries don't want and don't need them for many reasons. But when such an influx of refugees will come next time, it is big question whether some western European country will do similar as Germany last year. Mass migrations of refugees can significantly change structure of Balkan population.

Lonely countries cannot solve the problem alone, especially countries which have sea. Only systemic solution which I see are European border forces.

 

[VMRO1893]

You miss the point. I do hope Serbs and Croats work together against Islam- with the rest of the world- but Albanians are not running around spreading it.

Perhaps they are not spreading it, but as long as they remain muslims, they are the targets of Wahabbists and Jihadists. In Macedonia, there is a conflict amongst muslims over who will run Islam in Macedonia - moderates vs extreme islamists. The extremists have control over a number of mosques in the country already. We are talking primarily of Albanians here. I see your dislike of Bosniaks, but you seem to be softer on Albanians. There can be no difference. Moderate Bosniaks are like moderate Albanians - they're OK until extremists get to them.

 

[Dinarid]

Perhaps they are not spreading it, but as long as they remain muslims, they are the targets of Wahabbists and Jihadists. In Macedonia, there is a conflict amongst muslims over who will run Islam in Macedonia - moderates vs extreme islamists. The extremists have control over a number of mosques in the country already. We are talking primarily of Albanians here. I see your dislike of Bosniaks, but you seem to be softer on Albanians. There can be no difference. Moderate Bosniaks are like moderate Albanians - they're OK until extremists get to them.

I don't dislike them, I dislike their occupation of my land and oppression of my people, and am not too happy with their backwards, barbaric death cult they somehow call a religion. Islam is part of Bosniak identity. For Albanians, this is only true of Kosovo and western Macedonia. If Christian and atheist Albanians are unwilling to call them out on this, they are at fault.

 

[LABERIA]

It is same as someone says that due to rivalry (with Serbs), Croats are spreading (unconsciously) Islam in the Balkans.

But there were times when Serbs and Croats were allies. I think one of very important events in the Balkans was 1948.

That years Yugoslav nations (Serbs and Croats and others) said No to Stalin.

It was dangerous time when attack could be from four directions, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, and Albania, all Stalin's allies.

Yugoslavs including Serbs and Croats were brave and united. Tito was great man.
...

Islamization of Balkans is possible option. Of course it is not open topic for forum.

And I don't want to be the messenger of bad news, should be optimistic. Better to talk about positive things.

Pls, spare us from this typical communist propaganda. Can you bring a single document to prove this dangerous time?
There was in Balcan a possible crash with Soviets. And this was in 1960-1961 during the soviet-albanian split. There is in Albania in the city of Vlora, a military navale base called Pasha Liman. Probably the most ancient military navale base in world history. Used by Illyrians, Greeks, Romans and so on. In this base there was a military potential, double of France and Italy taken together. There was an mixed military personel, albanians and russians.
Khrushchev had a genius idea. He knew very well the territorial ambitions of Serbia and Greece against Albania. So, he made clear to the two countries and respectively to Venizelo and Tito that he was not against these two countries divide into two Albania. His goal was to withdraw at his side Yugoslavia after sovieto-yugoslav split and of course Greece. Both countries agreed with this Soviet proposal. The situation between SU ​​and Albania was irritated. Enver Hoxha denounced the Soviets dominated meeting of party 81 communist in Moscow. While in the base of Vlora situation between sailors of both countries became explosive. The mountains surrounding the military base were filled with artillery and the residents of the area, from the region of Laberia were positioned in these mountains. On the other hand the artillery located on the Karaburun Peninsula and Sazan Island, who serving as a natural entrance to the Bay of Vlora, were headed for the base. In every moment the conflict was possible. The Soviets demanded to withdraw from the base, taking away all military ships and submarines. Albanians demanded the respect of the contract, so that all ships and submarines to remain in the property the Albanian side. In the end, because it's a long story, the parties agreed that all military arsenal of base to be split into two.
So the Russians left the base of Vlora. This was an act of extraordinary consistency in the region and beyond. The reasons for the decline of SU are numerous. But one of the main reasons was the loss of the battle by the Russians for the control of the Mediterranean. And this withdrawal of the Russians from the Mediterranean, began exactly at the base of Vlora. This was the only occasion when the Warsaw Treaty, could attack a country in the Balkan Peninsula.

 

[Dinarid]

The only Balkan Slavs who want to invite Russia and Putin into the peninsula are Serbs. Many Serbs hold up pictures of Putin despite the fact that he never did anything for them. Should I spread propaganda about Serbs wherever they are acting as Russian agents? I don't believe it but it makes more sense than your Islamic Albanian Jihad theory.

 

[Garrick]

The only Balkan Slavs who want to invite Russia and Putin into the peninsula are Serbs. Many Serbs hold up pictures of Putin despite the fact that he never did anything for them. Should I spread propaganda about Serbs wherever they are acting as Russian agents? I don't believe it but it makes more sense than your Islamic Albanian Jihad theory.

Yes, you can.

You can think we Balkan orthodox all have Putin's picture in the walls and look at them every day 100 times and we dream him every night.

But, it does not help.

Russia has big interests in Islam world, and for three-four little Balkan nations it will not change agenda.

Russia will not lift a finger if the Balkan be Islamized, who knows, maybe it suits them.

Russia is Asian ally, unfortunately Russia and Europe no longer have anything in common.

Asia is Confucian and Islamic land and Russia is with them.

Dinarid,
only chance for Balkans to not be Islamized is European agenda, only what we can hope is that decision makers in Europe understand problem.

I will put several American analytical texts about process which is happening in front of our eyes.

And stop calling me nationalist, otherwise communications with you will not be possible.

I grew up in a family of Communists, I despised the Chetniks, I'm a fan of Tito and brotherhood and unity of the South Slavs, I am a supporter of a federal Europe, I believe that the nation is a construct of the 19th century and is no longer appropriate for the 21st century. Enough.

 

[Dinarid]

Yes, you can.

You can think we Balkan orthodox all have Putin's picture in the walls and look at them every day 100 times and we dream him every night.

But, it does not help.

Russia has big interests in Islam world, and for three-four little Balkan nations it will not change agenda.

Russia will not lift a finger if the Balkan be Islamized, who knows, maybe it suits them.

Russia is Asian ally, unfortunately Russia and Europe no longer have anything in common.

Asia is Confucian and Islamic land and Russia is with them.

Dinarid,
only chance for Balkans to not be Islamized is European agenda, only what we can hope is that decision makers in Europe understand problem.

I will put several American analytical texts about process which is happening in front of our eyes.

And stop calling me nationalist, otherwise communications with you will not be possible.

I grew up in a family of Communists, I despised the Chetniks, I'm a fan of Tito and brotherhood and unity of the South Slavs, I am a supporter of a federal Europe, I believe that the nation is a construct of the 19th century and is no longer appropriate for the 21st century. Enough.

I'm not insulting you by calling you a nationalist. You clearly promote anything that you see as a threat to Serbia as a threat to the whole Balkans, and even Europe. Albania has no intention of expanding into Herzegovina, so no, they aren't a threat to me. It is lack of nationalism that allows for expansionist foreign powers to infiltrate the nation- this is why Islam took over Herzegovina, as the Bosnian Croat leadership only desired independence from Yugoslavia (i.e. Greater Serbia), but had no loyalty to the Croatian people. Traitorous Nazi scum like Kraljević struggled against nationalism, to keep the Bosnian Croat people down, and it cost the thug his life.

I also don't appreciate how you rate anything that disagrees with you as unhelpful.

 

[LABERIA]

The only Balkan Slavs who want to invite Russia and Putin into the peninsula are Serbs. Many Serbs hold up pictures of Putin despite the fact that he never did anything for them. Should I spread propaganda about Serbs wherever they are acting as Russian agents? I don't believe it but it makes more sense than your Islamic Albanian Jihad theory.

As usually serbs do, he hide behind religion to justify the ethnic cleansing. You are from ex-Yugoslavia and know better than me the serb mentality, but let`s illustrate for the others with this two serb songs with english subs:

The Pope Hates the Serbs!

 

[LABERIA]

And this Momcillo with his Sve Dzamije u Oblake Lete, can be translated something like All mosques in the clouds:

There are many like this, but i think this two are enough to understand how serbs brainwash their people.

 

[Garrick]

I'm not insulting you by calling you a nationalist. You clearly promote anything that you see as a threat to Serbia as a threat to the whole Balkans, and even Europe. Albania has no intention of expanding into Herzegovina, so no, they aren't a threat to me. It is lack of nationalism that allows for expansionist foreign powers to infiltrate the nation- this is why Islam took over Herzegovina, as the Bosnian Croat leadership only desired independence from Yugoslavia (i.e. Greater Serbia), but had no loyalty to the Croatian people. Traitorous Nazi scum like Kraljević struggled against nationalism, to keep the Bosnian Croat people down, and it cost the thug his life.

I also don't appreciate how you rate anything that disagrees with you as unhelpful.

Unfortunately, situation is difficult, Balkans can be Islamized. I give here three factors, although there are many other:

1) operations of missionaries from Turkey, Arab countries, even Pakistani, this increases radicalization, spreading Wahabbi, Salafis etc.

2) mass influx of refugees from Middle East, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Northern Africa, Horn of Africa etc.

3) Neo Ottoman policy of Turkey.

These three factors are linked and they influence together.

For 1) and 2): members of Balkan Muslims support transfer of refugees via non-standard routs using illegal crossing and difficulty accessible terrains. Police can control roads, railways, border crossings but it is much harder to control inaccessible terrains. And as consequence, number of refugees with the help of Muslim Balkans clans increases in Greece, Macedonia and Serbia.

Italy as well, due to fast boats:

People Smuggling: Albanian Mafia is Transporting Refugees Across Adriatic Sea

http://www.independent.mk/articles/...+Is+Transporting+Refugees+Across+Adriatic+Sea

Albaniens Mafia lotst Flüchtlinge nun über Adria

http://www.krone.at/welt/albaniens-...ueber-adria-millionen-investiert-story-501145

In Italy since 2014 even over 420.000 refugees have landed. If much stronger Italy cannot solve problem how Greece, Macedonia and Serbia can.

Hungary could put the wire due to flat terrain, but it is not possible in mountains terrains.

Germany salvaged Balkan countries last year accepting 1.000.000 refugees who have reached the Balkans. But what if their number be larger and no one Western Europe country want accept them. Greece, Macedonia, Serbia, Croatia and Bulgaria are in big problem with 2 or 3 or more million Muslim newcomers.

And what we see these days this scenario is possible:

ERDOGAN'S REVENGE? Fears grow Turkey could release millions of migrants into Europe

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world...-millions-migrants-Europe-EU-Brussels-Erdogan

...
Surely, and Europe is in big problem due to mass migrations of refugees, but Greece, Macedonia, Serbia, Croatia and Bulgaria are most vulnerable.

I think, the best solution is in European level, i.e. forming of European border forces.

 

[Garrick]

Laberia

Do you really want that someone put videos with Wahabbi Albanians or Albanians in ISIS.

You're trying to detour the subject, however, things are serious, long time Balkans has been so threatened.

 

[LABERIA]

Laberia

Do you really want that someone put videos with Wahabbi Albanians or Albanians in ISIS.

You're trying to detour the subject, however, things are serious, long time Balkans has been so threatened.

[h=1]We Serbs are Supermen![/h]

 

[LeBrok]

[video=youtube;DJqDoEFJX5Y]

Actually, a nice satire of nationalism. It is interesting that an artist and a singer believed in it and considered it of paramount importance. Now from the distance, it seems kitschy and comical.