How "Slavic" are South Slavs?

Bosnian Boss · Nov 2, 2016

And how would it be quantified? Thanks

LeBrok · Nov 3, 2016

Bosnian Boss said:
And how would it be quantified? Thanks

Try looking for older threads on the subject. It's been discussed many times.

DuPidh · Nov 3, 2016

Bosnian Boss said:
And how would it be quantified? Thanks

I learned one day that a Russian women gave birth to something like 70 kids, with all surviving but two. She never had a single child. Maybe we need another thread but I think the reason that Slavs are so numerous is because their women are exceptionally fertile? They have of course absorbed many ethnicity's but still DNA shows that they are predominantly R1a, I2a,with N1c in minority

VMRO1893 · Nov 3, 2016

DuPidh said:
I learned one day that a Russian women gave birth to something like 70 kids, with all surviving but two. She never had a single child. Maybe we need another thread but I think the reason that Slavs are so numerous is because their women are exceptionally fertile? They have of course absorbed many ethnicity's but still DNA shows that they are predominantly R1a, I2a,with N1c in minority

Albanians must have caught that fertility bug from their Slavic neighbours I guess. Petty modern Slavs are not so fertile....

Bosnian Boss · Nov 3, 2016

I have. Nothing has been conclusive.

Tomenable · Nov 3, 2016

Bosnian Boss said:
How "Slavic" are South Slavs? And how would it be quantified? Thanks

About 40%. Just like good Vodka. But being Slavic is not about your genes bro, it's all about your car:

https://www.youtube.com/user/NocturnoPlays/videos

Tomenable · Nov 3, 2016

DuPidh said:
Maybe we need another thread but I think the reason that Slavs are so numerous is because their women are exceptionally fertile?

Yes, but there are many more reasons as well - including the secrets of traditional Slavonic medicine:

Dinarid · Nov 5, 2016

As Slavic as they come, since Slavs are not a completely homogenous family.

APO276 · Nov 6, 2016

It can't be quantified really, whatever people on the Internet say.

Tomenable · Nov 7, 2016

A. Papadimitriou said:
It can't be quantified really, whatever people on the Internet say.

Not as long as there are no Proto-Slavic ancient DNA samples. But when we get such samples, it will be possible to calculate it.

Seanp · Nov 25, 2016

Going by genetic it's impossible to tell. First what do you consider as Slavic?
Is Slavic a language, identity or a group which has close genetic relatedness?

In my opinion Slavic as an identity exists first and foremost as there's not much in common in a Serbian and a Russian genetic vise rather cultural ties. A non Slavic Hungarian might be closer in terms of genetic to Northern Slavic speaker groups than Serbs themselves or any other South Slavic ethnicity.

gyms · Nov 26, 2016

Most South Slavs are separated from the rest of the Balto-Slavic populations and form a sparse group of populations with internal differentiation into western (Slovenians, Croatians and Bosnians) and eastern (Macedonians and Bulgarians) regions of the Balkan Peninsula with Serbians placed in-between (Fig 2A and 2B). The mean population pairwise genetic distances for South Slavs (D[SUB]Nei[/SUB] = 0.239 for NRY; F[SUB]ST[/SUB] = 0.0009 for autosomal data) (Tables A,B in S1 File) are comparable or higher to the ones for East Slavs despite the smaller region within the Balkan Peninsula that they occupy. Furthermore, Slovenians lie close to the non-Slavic-speaking Hungarians, whereas eastern South Slavs group is located together with non-Slavic-speaking but geographically neighboring Romanians and, to some extent, with Greeks.
Both extant Baltic-speaking populations, Latvians and Lithuanians, lie in the vicinity of Finno-Ugric-speaking Estonians according to their Y-chromosome diversity (Fig 2B), whilst in their autosomal variation they are slightly shifted towards the group of East Slavic speakers (Fig 2A). Also, one finds Volga-Finnic Mordvins close to the two Baltic-speaking populations (Fig 2A), potentially reflecting historic evidence that the Baltic-speaking tribes’ spread zone formerly reached more eastward parts of the East European Plain [49,50].

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0135820

Tomenable · Nov 26, 2016

South Slavs - please post your Eurogenes K15 results. I will add you to my PCA graph:

http://i.imgur.com/NU4mPiL.png

Bosnian Boss · Dec 16, 2016

Here are my K15 results

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Population[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"] [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]North_Sea[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]17.79[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Atlantic[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]12.84[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Baltic[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]22.62[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Eastern_Euro[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]16.04[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]West_Med[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]12.93[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]West_Asian[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]7.40[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]East_Med[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]7.26[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Red_Sea[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]1.93[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]South_Asian[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]- [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Southeast_Asian[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]0.96[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Siberian[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]- [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Amerindian[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]- [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Oceanian[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]0.22[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Northeast_African[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]- [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Sub-Saharan[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]- [/TD]

brg12007 · Jan 16, 2017

heres mine

Admix Results (sorted):

Population

[TD="align: center"] # [/TD]

[TD="align: right"] Percent [/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]1[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]East_Med[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]16.41[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]2[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]North_Sea[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]15.22[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]Baltic[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]15.14[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]4[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]Atlantic[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]13.46[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]West_Med[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]13.35[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]6[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]Eastern_Euro[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]12.13[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]7[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]West_Asian[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]10.23[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]8[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]Red_Sea[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]2.87[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]9[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]Southeast_Asian[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]0.92[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]10[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]Siberian[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]0.28[/TD]

Single Population Sharing:

Population (source)

[TD="align: center"] # [/TD]

[TD="align: right"] Distance [/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]1[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Romanian[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]3.92[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]2[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Bulgarian[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]4.31[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Serbian[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]6.2[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]4[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Greek_Thessaly[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]9.63[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Moldavian[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]10.54[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]6[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Greek[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]10.71[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]7[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Croatian[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]12.86[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]8[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Hungarian[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]13.38[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]9[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Austrian[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]13.81[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]10[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Tuscan[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]14.28[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]11[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Ashkenazi[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]15.02[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]12[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Italian_Abruzzo[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]15.11[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]13[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Central_Greek[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]15.56[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]14[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]North_Italian[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]15.58[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]15[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]East_Sicilian[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]16.53[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]16[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]West_Sicilian[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]16.76[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]17[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]East_German[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]17.71[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]18[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Ukrainian_Lviv[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]18.5[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]19[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]South_Polish[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]19.18[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]20[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]South_Italian[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]19.23[/TD]

i'm macedonian but maybe they dont have enough single population samples

Dibran · Feb 1, 2017

Tomenable said:
South Slavs - please post your Eurogenes K15 results. I will add you to my PCA graph:

http://i.imgur.com/NU4mPiL.png

Im Albanian. Thought I would post my results to see how I plot on your graph. If that's cool.

Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15 Oracle results:

Kit M635564

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_Med 23.68
2 East_Med 20.92
3 North_Sea 13.76
4 Atlantic 13.17
5 West_Asian 11.34
6 Baltic 9.34
7 Eastern_Euro 6.71
8 Red_Sea 1.09

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek_Thessaly 7.03
2 Greek 8.33
3 Tuscan 8.8
4 Central_Greek 10.5
5 Italian_Abruzzo 10.87
6 West_Sicilian 11.36
7 East_Sicilian 11.41
8 North_Italian 11.72
9 Bulgarian 12.1
10 Ashkenazi 12.66
11 South_Italian 12.81
12 Romanian 13.77
13 Serbian 16.2
14 Italian_Jewish 16.86
15 Algerian_Jewish 17.93
16 Portuguese 18.57
17 Sephardic_Jewish 18.66
18 Spanish_Galicia 18.83
19 Spanish_Extremadura 19.08
20 Spanish_Andalucia 19.42

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 82.1% Greek_Thessaly + 17.9% Sardinian @ 3.87
2 72.9% Greek_Thessaly + 27.1% North_Italian @ 5.94
3 83.8% Greek_Thessaly + 16.2% Spanish_Andalucia @ 6.06
4 82.3% Greek + 17.7% Sardinian @ 6.08
5 86.2% Greek_Thessaly + 13.8% Spanish_Cantabria @ 6.11
6 87.1% Greek_Thessaly + 12.9% Southwest_French @ 6.17
7 90.8% Greek_Thessaly + 9.2% French_Basque @ 6.19
8 87.3% Greek_Thessaly + 12.7% Spanish_Aragon @ 6.2
9 86.4% Greek_Thessaly + 13.6% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 6.22
10 85.9% Greek_Thessaly + 14.1% Spanish_Valencia @ 6.23
11 66.2% Greek_Thessaly + 33.8% Tuscan @ 6.28
12 85.1% Greek_Thessaly + 14.9% Portuguese @ 6.32
13 85.7% Greek_Thessaly + 14.3% Spanish_Extremadura @ 6.35
14 86.5% Greek_Thessaly + 13.5% Spanish_Cataluna @ 6.37
15 86.4% Greek_Thessaly + 13.6% Spanish_Murcia @ 6.38
16 86.1% Greek_Thessaly + 13.9% Spanish_Galicia @ 6.41
17 87.8% Greek_Thessaly + 12.2% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 6.48
18 66.7% Greek + 33.3% North_Italian @ 6.84
19 72.5% Bulgarian + 27.5% Sardinian @ 6.87
20 93.7% Greek_Thessaly + 6.3% French @ 6.88

MaxCRO · Feb 1, 2017

Here are mine K15 results (I'm fully Croat with no recent foreign ancestry )

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]North_Sea[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]19.45[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Atlantic[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]12.04[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Baltic[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]22.73[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Eastern_Euro[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]16.69[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]West_Med[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]11.28[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]West_Asian[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]8.04[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]East_Med[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]6.56[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Red_Sea[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]0.87[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]South_Asian[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]1.13[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Southeast_Asian[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]-[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Siberian[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]1.21[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Amerindian[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]-[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Oceanian[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]-[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Northeast_African[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]-[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Sub-Saharan[/TD]

Southern Slavs are unique mixture of ancient southestern and northeastern Europeans. Northern Slavs have less admixture than we do.

tahir0010 · Feb 19, 2017

I would think Bosnians would be slav wouldn't they the language is from slavik roots.

stoningbull54 · May 9, 2017

Hi there, I can give you some information on the topic. I took the ancestry DNA test which compares autosomal SNPs among different ethnic groups. This is different from Y or Mt-DNA comparison which uses a single chromosome or mitochondrial DNA for comparison. It used SNPs on ALL chromosomes to classify groups. My friend who is Russian also took the test so lets go and see the similarities and differences. First her Ancestry result which is from a Russian sample:
- 97% Eastern European
-3% Baltic

Now lets compare that to my Serbian sample:
-62% Eastern European
-30% Italian/Greek
-4% European Jewish
-4% Caucasian

From this comparison, we can infer that I share 2/3 of my Autosomal SNPs with the Russian sample. As such, we can infer that my Serbian sample is 2/3 Slavic and 1/3 indegenous Balkan. I was very surprised by the test as I was always told that South Slavs are not slavs when in fact, the SNP comparison clearly shows that we share 2/3 of the SNPs tested with Russians.

stoningbull54 · May 9, 2017

Here's my K15 (I am Serbian)... It is very close to your Croatian Sample:

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Population[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"] [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]North_Sea[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]15.95[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Atlantic[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]12.28[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Baltic[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]19.92[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Eastern_Euro[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]12.74[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]West_Med[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]12.33[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]West_Asian[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]10.21[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]East_Med[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]13.65[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Red_Sea[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]2.93[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]South_Asian[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]- [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Southeast_Asian[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]- [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Siberian[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]- [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Amerindian[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]- [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Oceanian[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]- [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Northeast_African[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]- [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Sub-Saharan[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]- [/TD]

How "Slavic" are South Slavs?

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