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GEDMatch Gedmatch: high hunter gatherer real or bias!?

Northener said:
Although you have similar HG so it's kinship?
Click to expand...

Yeah, I would say that it is kinship during the last 2000-4000 years. Not before that.

So HG is not important because it tells what was happening like 9000-5000 years ago.

We have similar scores in ANE K7, but in Eurogenes K15 we have quite different scores:

North Sea / Atlantic / Baltic / East Euro / West Med / West Asian / South Asian / Sub-Saharan / Amerind / Oceanian / Siberian / East Med / NE African / Red Sea / SE Asian

You - 39,01 / 27,71 / 12,19 / 10,2 / 5,86 / 2,8 / 1,02 / 0 / 0 / 0,48 / 0 / 0,51 / 0,22 / 0 / 0

Me - 22,24 / 19,65 / 25,41 / 18,22 / 5,35 / 6,36 / 0,07 / 0 / 0 / 0 / 0 / 2,70 / 0 / 0 / 0

I have relatively more of "Baltic" and "Eastern Euro", you have relatively more of "North Sea" and "Atlantic".

=====================

BTW, none of 24 ancient guys scored any "East Mediterranean" admixture.

And moderns score it (I have 2,7%, American has 1,66% you have 0,51%).

Ashkenazi Jewish guy scores 27,25% (!) East Med and also 8,02% Red Sea.

are my aDNA similarities with Denmark, Norway, Orkney due to genetic kinship
Click to expand...

Yes, I would say that these similarities are due to kinship. You are of Germanic descent.

I think that already if we look at Southern Dutch, they are of partially Celtic ancestry.

You are Northern Dutch and it seems that people in your region are very Germanic.
 
Tomenable said:
Yeah, I would say that it is kinship during the last 2000-4000 years. Not before that.

So HG is not important because it tells what was happening like 9000-5000 years ago.

We have similar scores in ANE K7, but in Eurogenes K15 we have quite different scores:

North Sea / Atlantic / Baltic / East Euro / West Med / West Asian / South Asian / Sub-Saharan / Amerind / Oceanian / Siberian / East Med / NE African / Red Sea / SE Asian

You - 39,01 / 27,71 / 12,19 / 10,2 / 5,86 / 2,8 / 1,02 / 0 / 0 / 0,48 / 0 / 0,51 / 0,22 / 0 / 0

Me - 22,24 / 19,65 / 25,41 / 18,22 / 5,35 / 6,36 / 0,07 / 0 / 0 / 0 / 0 / 2,70 / 0 / 0 / 0

I have relatively more of "Baltic" and "Eastern Euro", you have relatively more of "North Sea" and "Atlantic".

=====================

BTW, none of 24 ancient guys scored any "East Mediterranean" admixture.

And moderns score it (I have 2,7%, American has 1,66% you have 0,51%).

Ashkenazi Jewish guy scores 27,25% (!) East Med and also 8,02% Red Sea.



Yes, I would say that these similarities are due to kinship. You are of Germanic descent.

I think that already if we look at Southern Dutch, they are of partially Celtic ancestry.

You are Northern Dutch and it seems that people in your region are very Germanic.
Click to expand...

Thanks! A clear story!

There are two periodes of Nordic influences in the North. Dutch:
1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jastorf_culture
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jastorf_culture#/media/File:Germanic_tribes_(750BC-1AD).png
Looking at my ancestors, and region, these influx had the greatest impact!

2. And may be in a lesser extent the Volkerwanderung:
http://www.medievalchronicles.com/w...lands-settlements-medieval-england.jpg?737143
The angles and Saxon didn't passed Frisia (on to England) but settled there on the Frisian terps!

I guess the biggest impact, also because of the link you made with the Nordic Bronze age is influx 1 !? Don't you think?
 
I plotted a Croatian person and she plots just next to me, and next to IR1.

IR1 is Mezocsast culture, not Kyjatice culture. I confused these two before:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Hungary_before_the_Hungarian_Conquest#Iron_Age

In the Carpathian Basin, the Iron Age commenced around 800 BC, when a new population moved into the territory and took possession of the former population’s centers fortified by earthworks.[17][18] The new population may have consisted of ancient Iranian tribes that had seceded from the federation of the tribes living under the suzerainty of the Cimmerians.[17][18] They were equestrian nomads and formed the people of the Mezőcsát culture who used tools and weapons made of iron. They extended their rule over what are now the Great Hungarian Plain and the eastern parts of Transdanubia.[18]
Click to expand...

Ecuadorian is ~30% Amerindian and ~70% European (Spanish, Basque, German):

Updated PCA: https://i.imgur.com/QPuUpxI.png

QPuUpxI.png


Bronze Age Hungarians are very close to modern Iberia/France.

I added six Bronze Age Hungarians to that PCA posted above:

RISE349 = Middle Bronze Age Hungary (years 2034-1748 BC)
RISE374 = Maros culture, Hungary (years 1866-1619 BC)
RISE373 = Maros culture, Hungary (years 1886-1696 BC)
BR2 = Kyjatice culture, Hungary (years 1270-1110 BC)
I1502 = Mako culture, Hungary (years 2190-1980 BC)
RISE479 = Vatya culture, Hungary (years 2000-1500 BC)
 
This is what happens when I add Clovis Anzick (Paleo-Indian from Montana) to the graph:

All of Europeans suddenly start to cluster closer together (because Anzick is so far away):

I also added ATP2 (Copper Age Iberian) and it shows how different modern Iberians are. I can model modern Spanish person as a mixture of 55% Copper Age Iberian (ATP2) and 45% Ancient Celt (RISE139, Unetice culture). I can also model a modern Ecuadorian person as ca. 70% Spanish + 30% Clovis Anzick (Paleo-Indian who lived 12,500 years ago). And the latter model is actually confirmed because this Ecuadorian lady tested her DNA and she is 30% Amerindian, 70% European (Spanish, Basque plus some German).

1) Modern Spaniard (he plots roughly halfway between Copper Age Iberian ATP2 and Unetice Celt RISE139):

http://i.imgur.com/RTbUfjZ.png

RTbUfjZ.png


2) Ecuadorian (if I draw a straight line connecting Spaniard with Clovis, she plots in 1/3 way from Spaniard):

http://i.imgur.com/pWAZMD5.png

pWAZMD5.png


Copper Age Iberians plot very far away from modern Iberians.

This shows that there were large scale migrations into Iberia after the Copper Age.

Celticization was a large migration - not just a cultural process.
 
Would there truly be that much genetic variation between the North and South of the Netherlands?
 
That study appears to accept as a starting premise that the population is relatively homogenous.

But then, the study finds a correlation between the distinctions observable within the North and South of the Netherlands and the North and South of Europe, and then goes onto say (and this bit I find quite speculative): Southern Europeans migrated more to the South of the Netherlands, while Northern Europeans migrated more to the Northern parts of the country, maintaining the North–South distribution within the country (admittedly, I once had a very nice pizza in Maastricht, in a restaurant run by Italians).

The main reason why we have to view that as a pretty speculative statement is because the Randstad area is included in the North, and you'd have to think that would take a pretty high percentage of all immigrants to the Netherlands (regardless of where they come from).



 
Joey D said:
That study appears to accept as a starting premise that the population is relatively homogenous.

But then, the study finds a correlation between the distinctions observable within the North and South of the Netherlands and the North and South of Europe, and then goes onto say (and this bit I find quite speculative): Southern Europeans migrated more to the South of the Netherlands, while Northern Europeans migrated more to the Northern parts of the country, maintaining the North–South distribution within the country (admittedly, I once had a very nice pizza in Maastricht, in a restaurant run by Italians).

The main reason why we have to view that as a pretty speculative statement is because the Randstad area is included in the North, and you'd have to think that would take a pretty high percentage of all immigrants to the Netherlands (regardless of where they come from).
Click to expand...

@ Joey I'am not one of the researchers but I think they have taken in account the effects of the immigrants after the sixties, because that would make the Randstad, the cities in the Western part, I think more Mediterranean than the South, and that's not how they pictured it.....

I think the researchers are right when they describe the difference, but their history knowledge could be sharper. The Northern parts of the Netherlands are a part of population devolvement since the mesolithic up to the iron age which is, thanks to Caesar ;) called "Germanic". The Southern Netherlands have never been explicit German (tough influenced by it!), more a kind of "Celtic" development, very integrated into the developments of more "Central Europe". The Rhine river was in the Roman period a kind of frontier, called the Limes. If you want to see the difference than visit not only the obvious Amsterdam ;) but also Maastricht in outmost South and Groningen in the outmost North, you can see and feel the 'atmospheric' differences...
 
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