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K36 K36 from Eurogenes

Pratt said:
I have great doubts about the theoretical framework behind the K36, I have the feeling that all the samples available were used and then the components were created. But 22% is quite a normal score for both Tuscans and Bergamasks. Lombards, Emilians, Ligurians usually score around 24/25% as average. Tuscans slightly more (26% on average), but there is a large individual variability. There are some Tuscans who score 20% and some Lombards who score 30%.

These are the averages from a spreadsheet done on anthrogenica.

IT_Tuscany 26.351
IT_North 24.70.
Swiss_Italian 24.52
IT_Lazio 24.22
IT_Abruzzo 24.12
IT_Campania 23.02
IT_Sardinia 23.00
IT_Marche 22.94
IT_Apulia 22.22
IT_Aosta 21.64
IT_Calabria 21.48
IT_Piedmont 20.76
IT_Veneto 20.45
IT_Friuli 19.835

Sicily

Sicily_Ragusa 21.46
Sicily_Trapani 21.365
Sicily_Catania 21.195
Sicily_Messina 19.68
Sicily_Caltanisetta 19.05
Click to expand...


I score extremely atypical values for this component. My father moreso.

Me:

23andme - 32%
LivingDNA- 31%
AncestryDNA - 29%

My fathers 23 results - 35%
 
Yeah, I doubt it's recent Italian ancestry. It's probably due to parts of Italy, Greece, and Albania retaining similar levels of DNA derived from one of the ancient migrations of people that passed through those areas, though I'm not sure exactly how K36 works.
 
Constantine said:
Yeah, I doubt it's recent Italian ancestry. It's probably due to parts of Italy, Greece, and Albania retaining similar levels of DNA derived from one of the ancient migrations of people that passed through those areas, though I'm not sure exactly how K36 works.
Click to expand...


Someone on Anthrogenica mentioned it was a Central Mediterranean component, that by default would be stronger in Italians. I think they mentioned it was derived from a Neolithic central Mediterranean. If my memory serves.
 
Dibran said:
I score extremely atypical values for this component. My father moreso.

Me:

23andme - 32%
LivingDNA- 31%
AncestryDNA - 29%

My fathers 23 results - 35%
Click to expand...

You're atypical even for Italian standards. Of course the Italian component doesn't imply "Italian ancestry".
 
Dibran said:
Someone on Anthrogenica mentioned it was a Central Mediterranean component, that by default would be stronger in Italians. I think they mentioned it was derived from a Neolithic central Mediterranean. If my memory serves.
Click to expand...

You're Gheg right? Aren't they originally from higher up in the NW Balkans (closer to northern Italy) and have remained isolated in the mountains for a long time?
 
You guys take K36 component nicknames way too literally. Creator clearly misnamed many of them.
He named them by the areas of origin of his references, and might have not suspected they would peak in different areas.

But he also mentioned that those components do not represent recent ancestry. So basically any modern nation label there is technically a labeling mistake (like French or Italian. Good thing he didn't name Iberian Spanish)
 
After studying people's results for quite some time, I would rename the following components:

Fennoscandian to Finnish or Finnic (East Finns score 75-80%)
East_Central_Euro to Baltic (Lithuanian score up to 37%; Latvians up to 36%)
French to Celtic (it peaks in the Celtic populations, not only in Bretagne; also in countries who had Celtic history)
East Balkan to Balkan
Near Eastern to something different. This one peaks in Egypt, while Places of reference of this one are dominated by Eastern Med component.
Italian to Central Med
North African could be Berber (although not sure)
 
Angela said:
Ok, I misremembered. I get about 24% for "Italian", and about 19% for Iberian. Still makes no sense, imo, but to each their own.
Click to expand...

Angela, me too: I'm 22.65% Italian and 16.54% Iberian
 
Aha said:
After studying people's results for quite some time, I would rename the following components:

Fennoscandian to Finnish or Finnic (East Finns score 75-80%)
East_Central_Euro to Baltic (Lithuanian score up to 37%; Latvians up to 36%)
French to Celtic (it peaks in the Celtic populations, not only in Bretagne; also in countries who had Celtic history)
East Balkan to Balkan
Near Eastern to something different. This one peaks in Egypt, while Places of reference of this one are dominated by Eastern Med component.
Italian to Central Med
North African could be Berber (although not sure)
Click to expand...

I always wondered why my friend who is primarily Irish and English received a higher "French" score than me who has two French speaking parents. Seeing the "French" score peak in Brittany it now makes sense to me.
 
Component maps. There were also in separate thread.

East-Central Euro component
https://fusiontables.googleuserconte...hml=GEOCODABLE

central-east-euro-eurogenes-k36.jpg


Eastern Euro component
https://fusiontables.google.com/embe...mplt=5&hml=KML


eastern-euro-eurogenes-k36.jpg


North Sea component
https://fusiontables.googleuserconte...hml=GEOCODABLE

north-sea-eurogenes-k36.jpg


North Atlantic component
https://fusiontables.google.com/embe...hml=GEOCODABLE

north-atlantic-eurogenes-k36.jpg


Italian component
https://fusiontables.googleuserconte...hml=GEOCODABLE

italian-eurogenes-k36.jpg


Fennoscandian component
https://fusiontables.googleuserconte...mplt=5&hml=KML


Fennoscandian-eurogenesk36.jpg


Iberian component frequency

https://fusiontables.googleuserconte...hml=GEOCODABLE

iberiank36.jpg


French component

https://fusiontables.google.com/embe...mplt=5&hml=KML


frenchk36.jpg


Basque component frequency

https://fusiontables.googleuserconte...hml=GEOCODABLE

bask36.jpg


Volga-Ural component frequency

https://fusiontables.google.com/embe...hml=GEOCODABLE

vol.jpg



Central Euro component
https://fusiontables.googleuserconte...mplt=5&hml=KML

central-euro-k36-map.jpg


East-Balkan component
https://fusiontables.googleuserconte...hml=GEOCODABLE

east-balkan-eurogenesk36.jpg


West-Med component frequency
https://fusiontables.google.com/embe...mplt=5&hml=KML


westmed.jpg
 
Components with non-euro centres of concentrations:)

East-Med component
https://fusiontables.google.com/embe...mplt=5&hml=KML
east-med-eurogenes-k36.jpg

North Caucasian component
https://fusiontables.googleuserconte...hml=GEOCODABLE


West Caucasian component frequency
https://fusiontables.google.com/embe...hml=GEOCODABLE
west-caucasian.jpg

Armenian component frequency
https://fusiontables.google.com/embe...hml=GEOCODABLE
armeniank36.jpg

Near Eastern component frequency
https://fusiontables.googleuserconte...hml=GEOCODABLE
ne36.jpg

Arabic component frequency
https://fusiontables.googleuserconte...hml=GEOCODABLE
arabian.jpg


North-East African component frequency
ne.jpg

North African component frequency

https://fusiontables.googleuserconte...hml=GEOCODABLE
na.jpg

South Central Asian component frequency
https://fusiontables.google.com/embe...hml=GEOCODABLE
sca.jpg

South Asian component frequency
https://fusiontables.googleuserconte...hml=GEOCODABLE
southasian.jpg
 
If you want to see exact percentage of component for each region. Open every google map and click on specific region:)
Every map is scalable.


BTW this is example of individual map, which shows highest to lowest correaltion of individual K36 vales and regional averages.

Person of British and minor Swedish ancestry.

Google map:https://fusiontables.google.com/embe...mplt=2&hml=KML

2ywic0i.jpg
 
My father:

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Population[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"] [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Amerindian[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]- [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Arabian[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]- [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Armenian[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]- [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Basque[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]1.35[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Central_African[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]- [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Central_Euro[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]10.95[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]East_African[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]- [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]East_Asian[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]- [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]East_Balkan[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]1.52[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]East_Central_Asian[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]- [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]East_Central_Euro[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]2.97[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]East_Med[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]- [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Eastern_Euro[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]5.22[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Fennoscandian[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]7.30[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]French[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]6.54[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Iberian[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]18.08[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Indo-Chinese[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]- [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Italian[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]10.34[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Malayan[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]- [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Near_Eastern[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]- [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]North_African[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]- [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]North_Atlantic[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]8.72[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]North_Caucasian[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]4.04[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]North_Sea[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]19.51[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Northeast_African[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]- [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Oceanian[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]- [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Omotic[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]- [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Pygmy[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]- [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Siberian[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]- [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]South_Asian[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]- [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]South_Central_Asian[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]- [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]South_Chinese[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]- [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Volga-Ural[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]1.68[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]West_African[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]- [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]West_Caucasian[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]- [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]West_Med[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]1.79[/TD]
 
My Mother:

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Population[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"] [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Amerindian[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]- [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Arabian[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]- [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Armenian[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]2.22[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Basque[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]2.31[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Central_African[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]- [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Central_Euro[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]6.02[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]East_African[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]- [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]East_Asian[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]- [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]East_Balkan[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]0.49[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]East_Central_Asian[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]- [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]East_Central_Euro[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]5.49[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]East_Med[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]0.59[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Eastern_Euro[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]7.34[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Fennoscandian[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]8.27[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]French[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]5.50[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Iberian[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]11.90[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Indo-Chinese[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]- [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Italian[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]10.44[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Malayan[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]- [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Near_Eastern[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]- [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]North_African[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]- [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]North_Atlantic[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]14.73[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]North_Caucasian[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]0.60[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]North_Sea[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]18.73[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Northeast_African[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]- [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Oceanian[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]- [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Omotic[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]- [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Pygmy[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]- [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Siberian[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]- [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]South_Asian[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]- [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]South_Central_Asian[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]- [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]South_Chinese[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]- [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Volga-Ural[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]- [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]West_African[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]- [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]West_Caucasian[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]2.98[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]West_Med[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]2.40[/TD]
 
Angela said:
It speaks for itself. Most of these "peak" areas are nowhere near where the "names" would indicate. Just take a look at where Eastern European peaks, or Central Euro, or even East Central Euro, which is actually Latvia. Brittany is a good stand in for all of France? For goodness sakes', the academic sample is Lyon. Central Europe is now, what? Poland???I think I was right not to pay any attention to it.
Click to expand...

Before you decide that these peak areas make no sense, maybe you should first check what ancient samples score? I did this and I can tell you that samples from Iron Age Poland already had a lot of Central Euro (actually more than modern Poles) and ancient samples from Lithuania had a lot of East Central Euro (actually more than modern Lithuanians - whereas in case of Fennoscandian, modern Lithuanians have more than ancients).

When it comes to what ancient samples score in Eurogenes K36:

East Central Euro peaks in RISE598, an Early Iron / Late Bronze sample from Sudovia (Lithuania-Poland border). Central Euro component peaks in ancient Wielbark culture samples (Iron Age Poland), in Early Medieval samples from Bohemia and Poland, as well as in modern Poles (but modern Poles score a lower % than ancient samples). Eastern Euro peaks close to the Ural Mountains (which happens to be the eastern border of Europe based on geographical and genetic common sense - Ural is the main barrier to gene flow in this region).

Does it make sense to call it Central Euro if it peaks in ancient Wielbark Culture samples? It probably represents a Pre-Slavic substrate in Poland (and perhaps Pre-Germanic as well). But the original Proto-Slavs could actually also have it. It looks like a shared ancestry between East Germanic and Proto-Slavic peoples. But there are differences in frequencies of other components between East Germanic and Early Slavic samples.

=================

Okay Angela, I actually agree that these names would make more sense:

Central Euro ---> should be renamed to East Central Euro

East Central Euro ---> should be renamed to Balto-Slavic (?)
 
davef said:
.....and would we expect "French" to be that much different from "North Atlantic"?

Why do we even have a "French" component? I really don't see the point.
Click to expand...

Frenchies are different, deal with it... ;)
 
mlukas said:
Map of correlation of RISE598 component breakdown in K36 to modern regional averages. Speaks for itself.

Google map: https://fusiontables.googleusercont...999985&t=1&z=5&l=col39>>1&y=2&tmplt=2&hml=KML

29qm653.jpg
Click to expand...

It is amazing that modern Poles from Sudovia (Suwalszczyzna) are actually more similar to RISE598 than modern Lithuanians. :) I think it shows that there is a great deal of population continuity in Sudovia since the Late Bronze Age or Early Iron Age (despite all of those Medieval crusades against the Yotvingians / Sudovians).

It also shows that North-Eastern Poles are actually Slavicized Balts (probably West Balts).
 
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