Vlach haplogroups & deep ancestry?

Dreptul Valah said:
Exactly,it is the inherited diversity that counts the most,usually found in the larger groups,because the smaller ones are easier to be influenced, manipulated,especially the enclaves.
The autosomal maps that I've posted on this thread clearly show that the biggest Romanian-Vlach populations were Proto-Wallachians,already formed before the Slavs came to the Balkans.
Although the Wallachian genes spike in Kosovo ,like the other Romanian ones,the main differences are that they can also be found in other areas,namely,FYROM and northern Serbia (Novi Sad area).
At least for Novi Sad,it is guaranteed that these are not Albanian or Romanian genes,but Serbianized natives(especially that these genes seem to go westwards, into the Old Serbian territory),the clear difference can be made,since Romanian has Slavic words of Bulgarian type.
In other words, a large population from the Balkans was fragmented by the many barbarian invasions and left its genes into the Albanian,Serb and Proto-Wallachian peoples.
The Romanized part of this population was more successful against the "Albanization", probably because more men have survived the Slavic onslaught,with evidence such as ginere,Latin generis,opposed to North Romanian (Transylvanian and Moldavian)mire,which in Albanian means good.
Click to expand...

Which genes are Vlach genes exactly, and how do you know they are?
 
Diurpaneus said:
Autosomal STR markers maps from "Analiza genetica a
populatiilor umane de pe teritoriul Romaniei folosind markeri STR"
The genetic signature of the first map shows a wider(at least south of the Danube,
where it is also present very consistently in northern Serbia*,unlike the other maps)
distribution,with higher frequencies and density,suggesting an older origin.
In Romania it strongly resembles Dacia Traiana, while south of the Danube
it reminds of the Latin-speaking areas from the Balkans, during the Roman/Eastern Roman Empire.
*I'm sure that,if this set of genes is present in/near Novi Sad,there must be a further,
western,extension,which the map doesn't show it,into the traditional Serbian lands and beyond
.
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EDIT:
The Romanians have plenty more Balkanic genes,
but the study offers a few locations for comparison from south of
the Danube,Serbia has only two(Novi Sad and Kosovo),the
rest of the countries,only one each.
Click to expand...


1st map, proto- Wallachian genes,with clear peak in the western,core parts.


3rd map, North Romanian genes(the linguistic and historical core is Northern Transylvania).


4th map, the speakers of the Maramures-Cris dialect,with the Bukovinian extension,part of the North Romanian dialects,see Dragos' and Bogdan' dismounting),they share the generalized n-r rhotacism with the Istro-Romanians and Tosk Albanians;the genetic analysis suggests that they were the smallest Romanian-Vlach groups ,isolated into the mountains,the dialect contains some additional Western Romance and Albanian elements,even more than the regular Moldavian and Transylvanian ones.
 
That a part of the surplus of the Romanian women was also integrated into the Albanian society is proven by this borrowing: zana,from Latin Diana.

In Albanian, this is definitely a Romanian borrowing, since d doesn't switch to z/dz.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zana_e_malit


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zână


Nevertheless, the obvious difference comes from the jewelry terms,inherited, in Albanian, Latin,in Romanian.


Romanian

cercel,inel,bratara,salba(necklace,Latin subalba,subalbus)


https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/unazë


https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/rreth

The so-called substratum elements almost entirely refers to manly activities, such as shepherding, with virtually no intimate, sentimental, connections,except for the term for mother from the Maramures-Cris dialect,ima,related to Albanian eme.

There's also mos(elder),connected to Albanian mose,and bucuros(happy), but these terms are not from from the semantic core.
 
However, even if the men may have been reduced in numbers,a heavy decimation can be excluded, since we do have a number of terms inherited from Latin,referring to handmade,easy to confection,weapons,like bata,maciuca,ghioaga,etc.


https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/măciucă

Another easy to predict reality, the male kids would have survived (almost) just as much as the little girls.
 
I once read a research which indicated that Vlachs were more genetically similar to the people in the region they inhabited, than other Vlachs in other countries. That is, a Vlach in Serbia will be more similar to Serbs than an Albanian Vlach. An Albanian Vlach will be more similar to Albanians than a Serbian Vlach etc.

They can however share some common ancestry as well. But they surely have mixed and the natives populations have absorbed them genetically. Language is what is binding them together.
 
Dianatomia said:
I once read a research which indicated that Vlachs were more genetically similar to the people in the region they inhabited, than other Vlachs in other countries. That is, a Vlach in Serbia will be more similar to Serbs than an Albanian Vlach. An Albanian Vlach will be more similar to Albanians than a Serbian Vlach etc.

They can however share some common ancestry as well. But they surely have mixed and the natives populations have absorbed them genetically. Language is what is binding them together.
Click to expand...
Vlachs of Northern Epirus have significantly higher I2A than Albanians.
 
Dianatomia said:
I once read a research which indicated that Vlachs were more genetically similar to the people in the region they inhabited, than other Vlachs in other countries. That is, a Vlach in Serbia will be more similar to Serbs than an Albanian Vlach. An Albanian Vlach will be more similar to Albanians than a Serbian Vlach etc.

They can however share some common ancestry as well. But they surely have mixed and the natives populations have absorbed them genetically. Language is what is binding them together.
Click to expand...

No one here seems to understand that Vlachs were never one people. It's like claiming that Italian, French and Spanish people all have the same ancestry. They were latinized by Rome and then split and developed separately as they had done for centuries before. There might be a tiny amount of Roman ancestry but that's it, otherwise they are all different peoples (even within themselves).

Same with Vlachs, they are just latinized Greeks, Thracians, Illyrians, Slavs, maybe even Bulgars or Magyars that adopted the Latin language. Some of those people created Romania later, many others remained distinct just as they had always been. I really don't understand why we are speaking of Vlach genes or Vlach ancestry.
 
The genetical maps are very easy to interpret, these are not the only ones.


I don't have time to fully respond,but to summarize:these Cyril and Methodius attitudes won't help you very much,for enhanced serenity,go to Rome,Constantinople,read a book, about the Byzantine Empire,Prefecture of Italy or Western Illyricum,go swimming, have a fresh air,and then, after ,come with some arguments.


The degree of compatibility is clearly greater within the Romanian-Vlach dialects,languages,comparing to each of the Italian,Spanish,French ones.
 
The Wallachian speech shares with the northermost Vlach dialects,the Megleno-Romanian,Aromanian from FYROM and Farsherot,the identical anticipation of the plural suffix,I,it most likely reflects the existence of an extremely fast speech,even for a Italian or Greek;I am thinking about Justinian right now,"the emperor who never sleeps ".


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speech_error


https://www.geni.com/people/Justinian-I-Eastern-Roman-Emperor/6000000003645853347


Justinian was the real Balkanic hero,not because of his accomplishes, but a certain act speaks clearly about his confidence:he could have married any of the most famous aristocratic woman;instead,he realizes the Balkan Dream,taking the girl he wanted the most,a belly dancer,Theodora.

A Greek, a Western Roman would have never done it,that's why they were called,Thraco-Romans or Illyro-Romans.

EDIT

When I was a kid,I have assisted on a shepherd wedding ,here in my village from Wallachia, one of them says to his 10-12 years old son with overconfidence and a daring,charismatic smile from the moustache:" don't grab that girl by the breasts,cause she will get pregnant ".

I don't oblige anybody to follow the shepherd's advice,but one thing is clear:

systematic,generalized,overdecency won't be encouraged in Wallachia, as far as I'm concerned.
 
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LABERIA said:
I don`t know if Albanians and Romanians,had a common word,before dor and mall.
The reason why the word dashuri=love it is not used by Arberesh is because the Arberesh dialect from one side have preserved some archaich forms but from the other side they have lost many words due to the preassure of the Italian language. Of course Albanian dialects spoken in Albania are more elaborate meanwhile the dialects spoken in diaspora, including Arbereshe dialects are more simplistic.
Also we use thew word mall. From the dictionary Albanian-Albanian:
MALL I m. :
Gg translator:
It is a word that has many meanings and serves as a root for many other words. For example:
MALLËNGJIM m. sh.=movingly.
http://www.fjalorshqip.com/
Click to expand...


He was probably thinking about an Indo-European connection,with Welsh hiraeth or Portuguese saudade,but the thing is,the first term doesn't appear in other Celtic languages, that didn't have a Roman contact.


This differentiation, Albanian mall,against the Romanian dor ,also exists in the Romance languages from Western Europe.

for instance

Spanish

Me duele corazon.
Portuguese

Meu coracao doeu.
Italian

Il cuore mi fa male.

However,Calabrian dialectal
U kore me dole.

The terms and expressions coming from malus,indicates a technical, ecclesiastical, environment, proved by the example of standardization from Italian.

The words that originated from dolus imply an initially formal speech,followed by a practical,vulgar,one,that's why they were much more commonly used.

Another difference is implied here,Romanian doesn't have a word coming from malus, the term for bad,evil, is rau,probably indicating a specific form of organization, after the Roman Law association, judex(jude,in Romanian),reus(accused).
 
Rau,in other words,guilty:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3yNT8B95x3o

Please note the differences: the Romanian premeditated the most and also caused damage(simulated),before taking the biggest spoil,the walk after had nothing special,indicating that was part of his daily routine.

However,the clip may imply that the Romanian was not a Gipsy,thus,lacking instinctiveness;if true ,it would be a terrible misconception.

In fact,more conservative Romanians, such as the Western Wallachians or Moldavians can make a Romani to appear like some sort of Scandinavian in a number of bad aspects,like,for instance,harassment, unfortunate jokes, etc.
 
Ethnographic relevance, this is not an invitation whatsoever.

Unfortunately, nowadays the Romanians are systematically discriminated in this respect and traditions kept for millennia could be lost forever,because,practicing is the key's activity.
 
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