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French DNA

mwauthy

Regular Member
Messages
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Location
California
Ethnic group
Namur Belgium and Quebec Canada
Y-DNA haplogroup
I-FT213710
mtDNA haplogroup
K2a6
I understand that France has a lot of genetic diversity with people plotting all over the place on PCA charts depending on their location in France. That is why I feel French HGDP got it right by combining multiple locations including Strasbourg, Grenoble, Marseille, Lille, Nantes, and Paris.

If a company such as Living DNA or Ancestry in the next update have a “France” category then it should be some type of average of various localities as seen in French HGDP. To only pick a few samples from the same location does not make much sense to me.

Most French Canadians are a good representation of a French average because even though the majority came from northern France and Western France, most French Canadians have at least one ancestor from every province in France in the 17th century.

I think that FTDNA should rename the West and Central European region to France because my French Canadian mom received 99% West and Central Europe on FTDNA with less than 2% East Middle East. On Gedmatch for Harappa World my mom only has a distance of 2.09 to French HGDP and for Mix Mode Population sharing she has 97.9% French HGDP with 2.1% Saudi (behar).

Another correlation I noticed between Gedmatch, French HGDP, and FTDNA was my scores. I am half French Canadian and half Wallonian Belgian. My closest match on Harappa World was French HGDP at a distance of 4.65. My Mix Mode Population Sharing was 90.7% French HGDP and 9.3% Finnish (1000 Genomes). On FTDNA I received 90% West and Central Europe and 10% Southeastern Europe. I understand that Finnish and Southeastern are different but they both have an eastern influence because Belgium is East of French HGDP average. Finnish is probably a more accurate model because Belgium is northeast of France.
 
I understand that France has a lot of genetic diversity with people plotting all over the place on PCA charts depending on their location in France. That is why I feel French HGDP got it right by combining multiple locations including Strasbourg, Grenoble, Marseille, Lille, Nantes, and Paris.

If a company such as Living DNA or Ancestry in the next update have a “France” category then it should be some type of average of various localities as seen in French HGDP. To only pick a few samples from the same location does not make much sense to me.

Most French Canadians are a good representation of a French average because even though the majority came from northern France and Western France, most French Canadians have at least one ancestor from every province in France in the 17th century.

I think that FTDNA should rename the West and Central European region to France because my French Canadian mom received 99% West and Central Europe on FTDNA with less than 2% East Middle East. On Gedmatch for Harappa World my mom only has a distance of 2.09 to French HGDP and for Mix Mode Population sharing she has 97.9% French HGDP with 2.1% Saudi (behar).

Another correlation I noticed between Gedmatch, French HGDP, and FTDNA was my scores. I am half French Canadian and half Wallonian Belgian. My closest match on Harappa World was French HGDP at a distance of 4.65. My Mix Mode Population Sharing was 90.7% French HGDP and 9.3% Finnish (1000 Genomes). On FTDNA I received 90% West and Central Europe and 10% Southeastern Europe. I understand that Finnish and Southeastern are different but they both have an eastern influence because Belgium is East of French HGDP average. Finnish is probably a more accurate model because Belgium is northeast of France.

From the sample taken in southwest France doesn't it seem quite a bit different? What about Provence?
 
I would expect diversity knowing the country's size.
 
I have wondered myself in the past why we see so much about Britain, Germany/Central Europe, Russia in the ancient DNA and even modern DNA studies, but so little from France, part of which essentially functions as one of natural bridges from the "core" of Europe to Iberia, Britain and North Italy. Is it just a coincidence, a wrong impression of mine, or is there any reason for that relative paucity of studies on their genetic history?
 
I understand that France has a lot of genetic diversity with people plotting all over the place on PCA charts depending on their location in France. That is why I feel French HGDP got it right by combining multiple locations including Strasbourg, Grenoble, Marseille, Lille, Nantes, and Paris..

Are you sure that French HGDP is from multiple locations? Many are convinced that French HGDP sample was collected in Lyon. According to CEPH coordinates French HGDP was collected west of Lyon.

Instead the French South sample was collected in Lourdes (Hautes-Pyrénées) and Dax (Landes, Nouvelle-Aquitaine). It's labeled as French South but it's rather South-west France, very close to Spanish border.

French HGDP according to CEPH coordinates.

gZZ5VTj.jpg


USWJItZ.png
 
From the sample taken in southwest France doesn't it seem quite a bit different? What about Provence?

Yeah I agree that no particular area in France is representative of the entire country. I think this applicable to many countries including Italy. This is especially true in Southwest France which has a strong Iberian affinity. The point I was trying to make is that any company with a region for France should take some type of average from various regions such as what HGDP did for the France region which based on my families results I think FTDNA might be employing too.

Since French Canadians have ancestors from many areas of France in my opinion they are a better representative for a “French” category than let’s say someone living in only one area like Lyon.

I don’t understand why so many companies are not using the HGDP data and are relying on 1000 Genomes only where there are no French samples and people are automatically given neighboring regions such as Great Britain and Iberia instead.

I hope that Ancestry remedies this situation in their upcoming update because it makes no sense for some French Canadians to get 0% Europe West. I feel that Living DNA’s current France category is a failure too since I received only 14% France but 63% UK.
 
Are you sure that French HGDP is from multiple locations? Many are convinced that French HGDP sample was collected in Lyon. According to CEPH coordinates French HGDP was collected west of Lyon.
Instead the French South sample was collected in Lourdes (Hautes-Pyrénées) and Dax (Landes, Nouvelle-Aquitaine). It's labeled as French South but it's rather South-west France, very close to Spanish border.
French HGDP according to CEPH coordinates.
gZZ5VTj.jpg

USWJItZ.png
I think you’re right. When I was researching HGDP I thought the samples listed were HGDP but upon double checking I think the samples were collected through other means and agencies thus negating my primary argument of averages lol.
Although, the HGDP sample location being from near central France could be argued as being a good average for the exremeties of their nationalistic current boundaries.

When I plug in my mom’s Eurogenes k36 info into that program that predicts your location of origin in Europe her coordinates are right near the city of Limoges which seems awefully close to the picture of the HGDP sample you provided. Explains the close correlation on Gedmatch and FTDNA.
 
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I have wondered myself in the past why we see so much about Britain, Germany/Central Europe, Russia in the ancient DNA and even modern DNA studies, but so little from France, part of which essentially functions as one of natural bridges from the "core" of Europe to Iberia, Britain and North Italy. Is it just a coincidence, a wrong impression of mine, or is there any reason for that relative paucity of studies on their genetic history?

One of the reasons why so few French results are available is because genetic testing is prohibited in our country - except when requested by police/justice authorities. I tested with FTDNA, and am currently retesting with 23andme. I run the risk of having my kit confiscated by customs officers if they happen to sift the "wrong" mail bag. It went all right the first time. Hope it does this time too. But I am breaking the law (- to an extent I can easily reconcile myself with !)

I guess the reason is, with terrorism rampant, the ensuing growing resentment against the islamic community, and the far right vote on the rise, our authorities don't want genetics to fan the flames of inter-community tensions by giving nationalistic groups what they might interpret as the support of science.
 
Also I suspect that if the state had had so much interest to suppress regional languages to make all French people state people, if Alsatians would find out that their most near parents are in the other side of the Rhine it would work against the undisturbed progress of the Francisation.
 
Also I suspect that if the state had had so much interest to suppress regional languages to make all French people state people, if Alsatians would find out that their most near parents are in the other side of the Rhine it would work against the undisturbed progress of the Francisation.

i think the main reason is really because they want french people to not even care about their genetics. the only importat thing should be their values and to make this clear they made it illegal to look at your genome and see where you are coming from. was it sarkozy who said something like, everyone who becomes french has gaulish ancestors? i think he himself is of greek origin. he once also said something about race mixing, métissage, beeing an important objective in the next few years to prevent future conflicts. métissage, in his opinion, was always a big part of the french history anyway.
 
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