Vajunites - connection to Slovenia?

Thank you, ihype02! Yes, google-translate mixed them and I based my assumption or at least hypothesis on this...;) But still, I try to understand who were these Vajunites who created our village...:)
 
Hello Milan and everyone,
I am still waiting for the everyday vocabulary words. I do remember "ververitsa" for squirrel which might be of Slavic origin and "skopi" (pronounced shkop by the locals) for stick that could be Albanian though.

I thought of posting here a list of many of the villages belonging to the "Kourenta" cluster which had or may have had names of Slavic origin and must also have been settlements of the Vajunites. I have found the following concerning the etymology of their names:

Veltsista: "white place" (Gortzis)/ from the Slavic "Belciste" (Vasmer), area or fields belonging to Velts (Velts= fountain of water to the west of the village, river Veltsistino) (Bettis)/ of Slavic origin (Velts+ista)/ Slavic toponym (Oikonomou)

Gribovo and Gribianι: a) Vlach word...or b) Slavic word meaning place where mushrooms are abundant

Gourianista: (Vasmer) Gorjaniste, Gorjane= inhabitant of the mountain, (Oikonomou) Slavic "Gorjan"(Gor= arson < goreti= to burn+ ending -ist)

Granitsopoula: Slavic, granica= sort of oak well-known in the area

Doliana: doljane= slavic word for inhabitant of the valley

Dragomi: Dragomir?

Zagoriani: (Vasmar) Slavic word zagorjane (the one who lives behind the forests-?), the name was given most probably by the Slavs who had settled at the back and western side of Ano Kalamas river).

Zelista: zeleno?

Zitsa: Slavic, soul or border

Karitsa: (Oikonomou), slavic "koryto" (basin)/ Slavic garb < v. goreti (to burn)/ (Bettis) Slavic, kara = punishment or sentence

Kosoliani: of Slavic origin- no further explanation

Kourenta: of Slavic origin - no further explanation (Kurent???)

Mosiari: ? sounds a bit Slavic too but could not find info
Brianista: ? sounds Slavic to me :) but again could not find info

Pogdoriani: Slavic word meaning a place under the mountains

Raiko/Rajko: from the surname Raikos, Greek version of the Slavic Rajko. Name of the first settler or owner of the area/ Slavic noun "Raj"= paradise

Rahovitsa/ Riahovo (see Arahovistsa): place with walnuts

Sioutista: was founded by Souliotes (Arvanites) that fled to the area as Sioutista from the Slavic name of the mountain "Kasidiaris" which refers to a goat without horns

Tserkovista/ Tsarkovista: Slavic "Cerkov"+ ista, area with churches
 
Most of the villages' names were changed or hellenized in the 20th century. Our village's name was changed in 1928 from Tsarkovista to Ekklisohori (Greek literal translation). Others changed even as late as the 1950's or even 60's, if I remember right.

Now about the name of our village, more specifically, I am quoting (and translating) P.D. Tziovas from his book: Ekklisohori, Tsarkovista Ioanninon:

"The name Tsarkovista or Tserkovista is produced by the Slavic Curkua (=church) and together with the known toponymic ending -ica, it means position of a church, or place dedicated to a church or even a village near a church and this, beacause the ending -ista is plural (Bettis). Labridis supports that the name is "signifying a place with the meaning, small royal property, from the replacement of consonants in Tsarskovica", and in another instance he claims that the name comes from "cerkov (=church) and that it denotes a dedication to the maintainance of a church". Finally, Vasmer regards as most probable that the name is produced by the Bulgarian, tsirky, tserkov, tserko-viste that means church".

"According to Pr. Zakinthinos the epirot toponyms Tsarkovista, Tserkovista, Tserkouviana etc. are etymologically connected to the Old Slavic word meaning church and as such could not be older than the second half of the 9th century, when the apostolic action was observed for the christianization of the Slavs. The size of the villages (oikismoi) where the Slavs settled depended on the number and the order of the inhabitants and ranged from 5,000 to 30,000 square meters. Each village (oikismos) had on average 8-10 houses with 40-50 appr. inhabitants, while the big villages could reach 20 houses with approx. 100 inhabitants."

"Based on this, the largest group of Slavic invaders must have settled to the west of today's village in the position "Selio" which means village, where there was according to the inhabitants' tradition, the most ancient church of the area, dedicated to Saint Taxiarches. Of course, the Slavic invaders settled all over the village, by displacing or annihilating the weaker local residents, from whom only the women survived, who through intermarriage secured many racial qualities of the natives, with first and foremost the passing down of the Greek language to new generations".
 
ihype02 said:
Slovenski means Slavic in Serbo-Croatian.
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Only in Serbian, to be correct. In Croatian language "slovenski" means Slovenian, just like in Slovenian. (Serbo-Croatian does not exist in practice!).

(The things get even more complicated as Slovakans also call their language "slovenský", which is different from Slovenain. In their case we use the word "slovački" to make a distinction. :confused:)

Alexandra_K,

"Zagoriani" (plural) could mean people who live behind a mountain, or who came form the area behind a mountain (za = behind, gora = mountain).

"Pogdoriani" should be properly written as Podgoriani (pod = under, gora = mountain).

Other words seem to be properly interpreted.
 
Alexandra_K said:
Kourenta: of Slavic origin - no further explanation (Kurent???)
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In slovenian folk tradition there is a character called Kurent:

The Slovenian rite of spring and fertility is called Kurentovanje. This event is celebrated for 10 days. Although the origins of Kurentovanje festivities are obscure, the celebration may have come from earlier Slavic, Celtic or Illyrian customs. Similar traditions are found throughout Central Europe in parts of Croatia, Hungary, Serbia, Bulgaria and elsewhere.

Kurentovanje is a distinctive pre-Lenten festival. The name comes from the festival's central figure, the Kurent, who in earlier times was believed to have the power to chase away winter and usher in spring. During this extravagant festival, Kurent, the god of unrestrained pleasure and hedonism, comes to life. Groups of Kurents (kurenti) dress in sheepskins with cowbells hanging from their belts. They wear furry caps decorated with horns, streamers, feathers and sticks.
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http://www.snpj.org/slovenian-culture/kurentovanje

 
Wonomyro,

Oh, lord, that is pretty complicated! 8-S

Thank you for your corrections! I think consonants are being often reversed at least by Greeks ;-P, so Podgoriani should have been the original version, thank you. Maybe the reversed version sounded "better" to local ears. :) Yes, someone else also pointed out in another forum that Za-gora has to do with a mountain and not forest, as written there. Thank you again!

I am still curious to find out (if possible of course), which modern day people would the Vajunites be mostly related to....
 
Yes! I had found this too and was even more influenced to think that the Slavic settlers would have some connection to Slovenians...But judging from my misunderstanding due to Google translate, I now think that the probability is smaller...However, Kurent offers a clue...of course, maybe as a mythical figure he was shared among Older Slavs, who knows...
 
Wonomyro said:
This one is difficult. Probably not Slavic at all.
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Wonomyro, do you mean because of their assimilation by the Greek locals? So, you think that there were none of them (Vajunites and other Southern Slavic tribes that settled in what is now Greece) that had also settled in other Balkan areas? Eg. in what is now North Macedonia (to use its newly given name) or Bulgaria, Serbia etc.? I don't have a lot of knowledge on the matter, so I hope it is not a silly question...
 
Alexandra_K said:
Wonomyro, do you mean because of their assimilation by the Greek locals? So, you think that there were none of them (Vajunites and other Southern Slavic tribes that settled in what is now Greece) that had also settled in other Balkan areas? Eg. in what is now North Macedonia (to use its newly given name) or Bulgaria, Serbia etc.? I don't have a lot of knowledge on the matter, so I hope it is not a silly question...
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I mean that I just can't find the similar word in Croatian for Vajunites. (All slavic languages are similar). That, however, does not mean that the tribes were not Slavic. The most of the other words that you provided here are little distorded but indeed Slavic. I can recognize their meaning.

As a couriosity, there are some toponyms that could indicate Croatian presence in the wider region:

In the southern Balkans, the Republic of Macedonia has a place named Arvati (Арвати) situated near lower Prespa;[22] in Greece there is a Charváti (Χαρβάτι) in Attica and Harvation in Argolis, as well as Charváta (Χαρβάτα) on Crete;[22][26] and Hirvati in Albania.
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:)
 
Wonomyro said:
I mean that I just can't find the similar word in Croatian for Vajunites. (All slavic languages are similar). That, however, does not mean that the tribes were not Slavic. The most of the other words that you provided here are little distorded but indeed Slavic. I can recognize their meaning.
As a couriosity, there are some toponyms that could indicate Croatian presence in the wider region:
:)
Click to expand...
They were not speaking modern Croatian probably,and their dialect would be more similar to Macedonian-Bulgarian Slavic instead.You use "vojska,vojnik" etc words from same origin like "vojin,vojnitsi,vojna" etc,so I guess you don't give good explanations.
 
Wonomyro, that's interesting...I didn't know...
I was told that Vajuniti can be connected to vojnici (=warriors) if I remember right.
 
Milan.M thank you too. So in the end the biggest affinity would be indeed with Macedonian-Bulgarian Slavic, you believe. Good to know.
It makes me think that my K36 report by Lukasz Macuga shows some more affinity in me with Macedonians and Bulgarians (of course the biggest with Albanians since some of my ancestors have been proper Arvanites) and also with Romanians (could be because of my Vlach ancestors). My mom who is only from Tserkovista (I am "mixed" Greek, 50% Tserkovista and 50% Kefalonia and Kea divided in the middle), shows also some bigger affinity with Serbs, if I interpreted her Oracle right.
It could be the genetic remainings of the settlers in us :)
 
Alexandra_K said:
Hello Milan and everyone,
I am still waiting for the everyday vocabulary words. I do remember "ververitsa" for squirrel which might be of Slavic origin and "skopi" (pronounced shkop by the locals) for stick that could be Albanian though.
I thought of posting here a list of many of the villages belonging to the "Kourenta" cluster which had or may have had names of Slavic origin and must also have been settlements of the Vajunites. I have found the following concerning the etymology of their names:
Veltsista: "white place" (Gortzis)/ from the Slavic "Belciste" (Vasmer), area or fields belonging to Velts (Velts= fountain of water to the west of the village, river Veltsistino) (Bettis)/ of Slavic origin (Velts+ista)/ Slavic toponym (Oikonomou)

Gribovo and Gribianι: a) Vlach word...or b) Slavic word meaning place where mushrooms are abundant
Gourianista: (Vasmer) Gorjaniste, Gorjane= inhabitant of the mountain, (Oikonomou) Slavic "Gorjan"(Gor= arson < goreti= to burn+ ending -ist)
Granitsopoula: Slavic, granica= sort of oak well-known in the area
Doliana: doljane= slavic word for inhabitant of the valley
Dragomi: Dragomir?
Zagoriani: (Vasmar) Slavic word zagorjane (the one who lives behind the forests-?), the name was given most probably by the Slavs who had settled at the back and western side of Ano Kalamas river).
Zelista: zeleno?
Zitsa: Slavic, soul or border
Karitsa: (Oikonomou), slavic "koryto" (basin)/ Slavic garb < v. goreti (to burn)/ (Bettis) Slavic, kara = punishment or sentence
Kosoliani: of Slavic origin- no further explanation
Kourenta: of Slavic origin - no further explanation (Kurent???)

Mosiari: ? sounds a bit Slavic too but could not find info
Brianista: ? sounds Slavic to me :) but again could not find info
Pogdoriani: Slavic word meaning a place under the mountains
Raiko/Rajko: from the surname Raikos, Greek version of the Slavic Rajko. Name of the first settler or owner of the area/ Slavic noun "Raj"= paradise
Rahovitsa/ Riahovo (see Arahovistsa): place with walnuts
Sioutista: was founded by Souliotes (Arvanites) that fled to the area as Sioutista from the Slavic name of the mountain "Kasidiaris" which refers to a goat without horns
Tserkovista/ Tsarkovista: Slavic "Cerkov"+ ista, area with churches
Click to expand...
"Ververitsa" is Slavic Macedonian for squirrel all other pronounce it "veverica" without "r". There is "sopa" for stick in Macedonian and Bulgarian,but Albanian "shkopa".Place names are given OK explanations,I will come back if I find something more about place names,likewise you can post.And yes probably google translate made error cause " Sloven" mean Slav in Serbian,so probably a bad translation from "Sloven" to "Slovene".
 
Because of geographic proximity and given their history they were speaking language similar to Macedonian Slavic,if you find for example Kastoria,Edessa,Thessaloniki or other Slavic dialects in Macedonia or some in Albania to the south,you will see the similarity with Macedonian and Bulgarian and they are classified as such dialects.
 
Thank you again, Milan.M. The link with these dialects then seems very probable.
 
Milan.M said:
They were not speaking modern Croatian probably,and their dialect would be more similar to Macedonian-Bulgarian Slavic instead.You use "vojska,vojnik" etc words from same origin like "vojin,vojnitsi,vojna" etc,so I guess you don't give good explanations.
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I don't understand you argument. I haven't implied that they were speaking modern Croatian or anything like that. I said that all slavic languages are similar and me as (modern) Croatian speaker can understand most of the words wihout difficulties.
 
Wonomyro said:
I don't understand you argument. I haven't implied that they were speaking modern Croatian or anything like that. I said that all slavic languages are similar and me as (modern) Croatian speaker can understand most of the words wihout difficulties.
Moreover, all the words you listed: "vojska, vojnik, vojin (Vojin), vojnitsi (vojnici), vojna"; can be found in any Croatian dictionary. But if we go that way then the much later turkish form of the same word IMO would be a better candidate:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voynuks
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This tribe was attested from 7th century onwards as Baionitai/Vaionitai that region in sothern Albanian and Epirus called Vagenetia presumably by their name,so no arguments but this etymology " Vajuniti" was given by people that that is their job whether right or wrong,and of course in Greek language is pronounced and written differently,the way it was.Moreover if you read old church Slavonic written in 9th century it will look like some very far away dialect,but our language evolved from that "dialect".Saying is not Slavic but recorded as Slavic from 7th century is error from you.Today Macedonian Slavic,Bulgarian and dialects from Greek Macedonia with Croatian for example can understand with each other but with more difficulties than they with themselves.Languages evolve/change trough times.
 
Milan.M said:
This tribe was attested from 7th century onwards as Baionitai/Vaionitai that region in sothern Albanian and Epirus called Vagenetia presumably by their name,so no arguments but this etymology " Vajuniti" was given by people that that is their job whether right or wrong,and of course in Greek language is pronounced and written differently,the way it was.Moreover if you read old church Slavonic written in 9th century it will look like some very far away dialect,but our language evolved from that "dialect".Saying is not Slavic but recorded as Slavic from 7th century is error from you.Today Macedonian Slavic,Bulgarian and dialects from Greek Macedonia with Croatian for example can understand with each other but with more difficulties than they with themselves.Languages evolve/change trough times.
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Here is the Proto-Slavic etimology of the (modern croatian) word vojnik. The word hasn't changed since then:
vojnik Etymology From Proto-Slavic *vojьnъ + -ik Pronunciation IPA(key): /ʋǒjniːk/ Audio (file) Hyphenation: voj‧nik
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https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/vojnik
 
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