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Philistine DNA!

JalkeSchlupp said:
Henry Minor Huxley is the only other Anthropologist to observe the Samaritans.

He found only 6.2% red beards and no red scalp hair, but he included no women and there were fewer men observed. As Szpidbaum was clearly more extensive, I see no reason to emphasize Huxley more.

If you read my explanation clearly you should have no trouble believing. If you have four families among whom red hair is common and they have a lot of children between each other, your going to end up with a larger population where red hair is common.

I got the Szpidbaum statistics from Hans F. K. Günther‘s Rassenkunde des jüdischen Volkes
Pages 153-54. You can access it here: archive.org/details/Guenther-Hans-Rassenkunde-des-juedischen-Volkes-2/page/n154)

Genetic sources you can find here: ALFRED alfred.med.yale.edu/alfred/SiteTable1A_working.asp?siteuid=SI663691F)
Sammy Issac Spreadsheet: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1iF9hHSjfeUrHXGlYrWxkfdXJcRm5NQQU4GuNtXGrCtw

Add in https:// as I can’t give links yet.

Unexpected does not mean wrong.
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Yeah, I get your point about potential founder effects and data trumping expectations I suppose, but there’s only been limited observation and what’s more 6.2% red beards may include only slightly reddish colour which in a different survey might not make the cut for being red - and this is just beards, not even hair, which would be much less red as a total percentage. Maybe it’s around the same as Ashkenazim, but I would personally want to see much more evidence before believing the levels of rufosity greatly exceeded AJs. It’s all well and good looking at data but without knowing reliability I stand by the fact that big claims require appropriate levels of evidence
 
ToBeOrNotToBe said:
There is a Northern Mediterranean element in both Anglos and AJs but the rufosity is much more unexpected given AJs have such little WHG this element surely was acquired from a Steppe pastoralist population such as the Khazars (who presumably looked similar to Scythians).

Also, Natalie Portman is just way better than Keira Knightly - not even close
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King John had a point, I don't want to soil a perfectly fine thread about ancient Philistine DNA any further.

Knightly has obvious anorexia issues in my opinion, your preference for Portman is duly noted...
Portman is also brainy and a graduated Harvard with a degree in Psychology.

Where is the evidence of mass Khazar genetic introgression in the Ashkenazi genome?
Ashkenazim look very much like Southern Greeks and South Italians/Sicilians on the autosomal level.
Why is that?
 
Joker said:
King John had a point, I don't want to soil a perfectly fine thread about ancient Philistine DNA any further.

Knightly has obvious anorexia issues in my opinion, your preference for Portman is duly noted...
Portman is also brainy and a graduated Harvard with a degree in Psychology.

Where is the evidence of mass Khazar genetic introgression in the Ashkenazi genome?
Ashkenazim look very much like Southern Greeks and South Italians/Sicilians on the autosomal level.
Why is that?
Click to expand...

I would say that the evidence is from Davidski’s modelling of AJs as having surprisingly high Steppe and also the fact that Ashkenazim are so much lighter than Southern Italians/Sicilians/Southern Greeks with a special emphasis on rufosity. Yet WHG is low, hence my belief the population responsible for these distinctions from e.g. Sicilians is that of Steppe pastoralists and the likely candidate being the Khazars. Yet PCA plots are similar, so there must be an offset to the Steppe infusion that Ashkenazim have in extra abundance as compared to Sicilians which I believe is greater West Asian ancestry. So Sicilians would be more Mediterranean and this makes perfect sense phenotypically too.
 
What's the distance score for the model with the high steppe score for Ashkenazi? Just curious
 
davef said:
What's the distance score for the model with the high steppe score for Ashkenazi? Just curious
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Ashkenazi_Jew

EEF,29.2
Levant_N,26.6
Yamnaya,24.2
Iran_N,12
Anatolia_N,6
Iberomaurusian,1.2
East_Asian,0.8
 
ToBeOrNotToBe said:
I would say that the evidence is from Davidski’s modelling of AJs as having surprisingly high Steppe and also the fact that Ashkenazim are so much lighter than Southern Italians/Sicilians/Southern Greeks with a special emphasis on rufosity. Yet WHG is low, hence my belief the population responsible for these distinctions from e.g. Sicilians is that of Steppe pastoralists and the likely candidate being the Khazars. Yet PCA plots are similar, so there must be an offset to the Steppe infusion that Ashkenazim have in extra abundance as compared to Sicilians which I believe is greater West Asian ancestry. So Sicilians would be more Mediterranean and this makes perfect sense phenotypically too.
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Why not post this in a Khazar hypothesis thread?
Or start another one?

https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/25783-The-Jewish-Khazars
 
ToBeOrNotToBe said:
Because I’m not that interested to be honest, it’s just the direction the thread went. There isn't really anything else to add about Philistine DNA anyway that hasn’t been covered.
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Sure seems like you have an interest in it.

There isn't really anything else to add about the Khazar hypothesis that hasn’t been covered ad nauseum .
Every wild eyed special interest group from David Duke to Black Hebrew Israelites to BritishIsraelism/Zionists have endlessly opined on the alleged Khazar/Ashkenazi connection.
Nothing good has ever come of it.

To begin with Khazar Khaganate was a massively heterogeneous group and a few ancient Khazar graves and their subsequent DNA analysts tells us little about their multi-ethnic origins.

I'm done, and apologize for steering this thread off into the Twilight Zone.
 
Ok, ToBeOrNotToBe,

You were asked quite nicely to find a Khazar thread and post there if you must. Now it's a directive.

The next post on the topic will be deleted and you'll get an infraction.

I might even delete the ones already here.

Anyone who takes any notice of any results from Davidski/Eurogenes/Polako about Jews, known for years as a rabid anti-Semite, is off his rocker. The fact that Gedmatch still has his "J" test is tantamount to malpractice. Years ago he said Ashkenazim had such high IQs because of steppe ancestry. Of course, if you believe their high IQs are related to that, it's interesting they're so much higher than the ones of the Eastern Europeans around them. :) This is the kind of stuff which makes me wonder how people can trust his results and conclusions. You might also ask yourself why certain samples disappear from his programs.
 
Angela said:
Ok, ToBeOrNotToBe,

You were asked quite nicely to find a Khazar thread and post there if you must. Now it's a directive.

The next post on the topic will be deleted and you'll get an infraction.

I might even delete the ones already here.

Anyone who takes any notice of any results from Davidski/Eurogenes/Polako about Jews, known for years as a rabid anti-Semite, is off his rocker. The fact that Gedmatch still has his "J" test is tantamount to malpractice. Years ago he said Ashkenazim had such high IQs because of steppe ancestry. Of course, if you believe their high IQs are related to that, it's interesting they're so much higher than the ones of the Eastern Europeans around them. :) This is the kind of stuff which makes me wonder how people can trust his results and conclusions. You might also ask yourself why certain samples disappear from his programs.
Click to expand...

If he said that, that’s beyond stupid. I’d actually not trust his modelling if he said something like that
 
Joker said:
Sure seems like you have an interest in it.

There isn't really anything else to add about the Khazar hypothesis that hasn’t been covered ad nauseum .
Every wild eyed special interest group from David Duke to Black Hebrew Israelites to BritishIsraelism/Zionists have endlessly opined on the alleged Khazar/Ashkenazi connection.
Nothing good has ever come of it.

To begin with Khazar Khaganate was a massively heterogeneous group and a few ancient Khazar graves and their subsequent DNA analysts tells us little about their multi-ethnic origins.

I'm done, and apologize for steering this thread off into the Twilight Zone.
Click to expand...

I’ll stop now too, but I want to add these anti-Semitic people believe the Khazars are the principal ancestors of Ashkenazi Jews as a way to delegitimise them (and also Khazar sounds kinda evil). I just think there is partial Khazar ancestry, very low double digit as a percentage. I’ve given the reasons why I think so.

But yeah, this’ll be the end on this thread unless someone else brings it up again
 
XnCMQgy.png


This sample seems a bit closer to Minoans, than from an earlier one. This was from before the Philistine invasion.

Also, I recall reading from the Canaanite paper, that there has been Eurasian gene flow in the region since 3,800 to 2,200 years ago. This is before the Philistine arrival during the Sea Peoples Invasion. I think it is likely the west to east gene flow since this time is responsible for some of the southern European ancestry as well.

QnrvhAE.png


https://www.cell.com/ajhg/fulltext/S0002-9297(17)30276-8

The researchers estimate that new Eurasian people mixed with the Canaanite population about 3,800 to 2,200 years ago at a time when there were many conquests of the region from outside.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/07/170727122039.htm[SUB][/SUB]
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Jovialis said:
XnCMQgy.png


This sample seems a bit closer to Minoans, than from an earlier one. This was from before the Philistine invasion.

Also, I recall reading from the Canaanite paper, that there has been Eurasian gene flow in the region since 3,800 to 2,200 years ago. This is before the Philistine arrival during the Sea Peoples Invasion. I think it is likely the west to east gene flow since this time is responsible for some of the southern European ancestry as well.

QnrvhAE.png


https://www.cell.com/ajhg/fulltext/S0002-9297(17)30276-8
Click to expand...

Very interesting perspective mate thanks for sharing.
I am astonished also to the closeness of the sample to Hittite Anatolia. Imo the Hittite Anatolia might have been a conduit for the spread of genes as well as culture(pottery, material technology) into the Levant.
 
Jovialis said:
XnCMQgy.png


This sample seems a bit closer to Minoans, than from an earlier one. This was from before the Philistine invasion.

Also, I recall reading from the Canaanite paper, that there has been Eurasian gene flow in the region since 3,800 to 2,200 years ago. This is before the Philistine arrival during the Sea Peoples Invasion. I think it is likely the west to east gene flow since this time is responsible for some of the southern European ancestry as well.

QnrvhAE.png


https://www.cell.com/ajhg/fulltext/S0002-9297(17)30276-8
Click to expand...

the mitanni ?
 
bicicleur said:
the mitanni ?
Click to expand...

Possible, the paper said it could have come from a number of different sources from the surrounding area:

t is important to note here that Bronze Age Steppe populations used in the model need not be the actual ancestral mixing populations, and the admixture could have involved a population which was itself admixed with a Steppe-like ancestry population. The time period of this mixture overlaps with the decline of the Egyptian empire and its domination over the Levant, leading some of the coastal cities to thrive, including Sidon and Tyre, which established at this time a successful maritime trade network throughout the Mediterranean. The decline in Egypt’s power was also followed by a succession of conquests of the region by distant populations such as the Assyrians, Persians, and Macedonians, any or all of whom could have carried the Steppe-like ancestry observed here in the Levant after the Bronze Age.

https://www.cell.com/ajhg/fulltext/S0002-9297(17)30276-8[SUB][/SUB]
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What responsibility do archaeologists have when their research about prehistoric finds is appropriated to make 21st-century arguments about ethnicity?


https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/when-ancient-dna-gets-politicized-180972639/
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To simply report the facts in their research!

How can they be at fault if third-parties completely pervert their findings, and add their own narratives to it?

It is editorial-style journalism, and politicians that are at fault for the radicalization of ethno-nationalists of all stripes, NOT the researchers.
 
Jovialis said:
To simply report the facts in their research!

How can they be at fault if third-parties completely pervert their findings, and add their own narratives to it?

It is editorial-style journalism, and politicians that are at fault for the radicalization of ethno-nationalists of all stripes, NOT the researchers.
Click to expand...

Nethanyanu already used this report to say that Palestinians are newcomers (3200 years ago?) who have no claims whatsoever to make.
 
That’s nonsense imo. Yes, the Muslim Palestinians/Jordanians may carry ancestry from subsequent migrations from Arabia or other places, but that’s still on a “Canaanite” base. I would like to see Christian Palestinians tested. My hunch is that they’re probably a lot like the Christian Lebanese. Meanwhile, Ashkenazim might be up to 50 percent Southern European and then a few percent Eastern European.
 
Angela said:
That’s nonsense imo. Yes, the Muslim Palestinians/Jordanians may carry ancestry from subsequent migrations from Arabia or other places, but that’s still on a “Canaanite” base. I would like to see Christian Palestinians tested. My hunch is that they’re probably a lot like the Christian Lebanese. Meanwhile, Ashkenazim might be up to 50 percent Southern European and then a few percent Eastern European.
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SaihpnD.jpg


Indeed, Bronze-Age Levantines plot right on top of modern-day Palestinians.
 
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