Turks are Anatolians under the hood?

[torzio]

It's now quite clear, and I assure you I'll remember it. You're not a Venetian and don't have Venetian ancestry. You can claim none of their accomplishments for your ancestry. You can claim only things specifically done by people from the Trentino or whatever "Alpine" villages you hail from.

Never ever claimed i was venetian, veneto yes from circa 1600.....before this from towns of dermulo, tres, cles and smarano in trentno, val di non
I have done by paternal line via professionals
As for my mothers line.....they come from basically the bassano del grappa area....
Neither line ever saw the sea from what i have been given

 

[Angela]

Never ever claimed i was venetian, veneto yes from circa 1600.....before this from towns of dermulo, tres, cles and smarano in trentno, val di non
I have done by paternal line via professionals
As for my mothers line.....they come from basically the bassano del grappa area....
Neither line ever saw the sea from what i have been given

Yes, and the world is stunned by what those areas have given the world and how pivotal they were in world events.

 

[Cpluskx]

Edar frequency in Turkey is 0,5% suggesting either a very small or a heavily Caucasoid Turkic intrusion.

 

[Constantine]

Edar frequency in Turkey is 0,5% suggesting either a very small or a heavily Caucasoid Turkic intrusion.

Not so sure if the derived EDAR variant is a reliable indicator of East Asian ancestry. It's been found, last time I checked, in Swedish hunter-gatherers, Yamnaya, and even the Yoruba. And these were small sample sizes with no other "East Asian"-type DNA if I recall

 

[Cpluskx]

A group called Turkish Dna Project claims there is 10% East Asian (Mongoloid) and 45% total C.Asian total admixture in modern Turks. Needless to say i found their calculations insane.

 

[Angela]

A group called Turkish Dna Project claims there is 10% East Asian (Mongoloid) and 45% total C.Asian total admixture in modern Turks. Needless to say i found their calculations insane.

I would have to agree. Numerous studies have been done, and the highest I remember is about 20% total Central Asian admixture.

 

[Cpluskx]

I would have to agree. Numerous studies have been done, and the highest I remember is about 20% total Central Asian admixture.

Well, they have gotten very angry at me and started hurling insults for suggesting these calculations seem too high ) Clearly some people who are into ancient dna are not very nice and mentally peaceful people.

 

[Angela]

Well, they have gotten very angry at me and started hurling insults for suggesting these calculations seem too high ) Clearly some people who are into ancient dna are not very nice and mentally peaceful people.

Some people are blinded to the facts because they want to cling to the foundational myths they've been fed by their governments. My father was a bit like that, to be honest, because of holdovers in thinking from the Mussolini Era. He was, however, an intelligent and rational person,and he would have been persuaded by the science, I'm sure.

Indeed, a lot of people in this hobby are not quite mentally sound. It makes discussion a challenge, shall we say.

 

[Angela]

Not so sure if the derived EDAR variant is a reliable indicator of East Asian ancestry. It's been found, last time I checked, in Swedish hunter-gatherers, Yamnaya, and even the Yoruba. And these were small sample sizes with no other "East Asian"-type DNA if I recall

I have no idea how the Yoruba would fit in, but it makes perfect sense and indeed corroborates the genetics findings for Scandinavian hunter-gatherers and the Yamnaya, as these are precisely populations high in ANE.

 

[torzio]

A group called Turkish Dna Project claims there is 10% East Asian (Mongoloid) and 45% total C.Asian total admixture in modern Turks. Needless to say i found their calculations insane.

The turks from central asia only arrived in modern turkey about only 1000 years ago,

 

[D.L.M]

 

[Angela]

I have to go read that section of the paper when I have the chance.

Right off the bat those sample sizes are ridiculous. You test 1 person in a province???

Even if accurate, it would still probably average out to 25% for Turkey as a whole, I think.

Mugla province with 68% East Asian seems extraordinary. That would mean they're essentially all Eurasian, and should show it phenotypically. It's a resort area. Surely people would have noticed?

 

[D.L.M]

I have to go read that section of the paper when I have the chance.

Right off the bat those sample sizes are ridiculous. You test 1 person in a province???

Even if accurate, it would still probably average out to 25% for Turkey as a whole, I think.

Mugla province with 68% East Asian seems extraordinary. That would mean they're essentially all Eurasian, and should show it phenotypically. It's a resort area. Surely people would have noticed?

It seems too high for me too. 25% seems more accurate.

 

[Frosty_Chateux]

Someone I know, speaking for a certain TV station as an expert on Turkey, was arguing that Turks themselves do not see each other as equal. He was saying that Anatolian Turks, or dark skinned Turks to use his words, see themselves as legitimate Turks. And then there are white Turks, with Balkan and other European Turks, who are the political and business elite are seen as intruders by Anatolian's. Turks have known this divide and for long have suppressed anyone who has tried to bring into open the division reality. He was saying that division runs deep and I was surprised to hear that. The white population of Turkey is quite large. According to some estimates Albanian population of Turkey surpasses 6 million (at least one parent). But the largest number should be Turkified Greeks and Armenians. Also Bosniak's, Serbs, Georgians, reside in large numbers. The person I am referring to had studied Theology so I don't know how accurate his data are. I don't quite get the purpose of this thread but Present day Turkey is ethnically quite complicated. It has been part of Ancient Greece, Rome, Ottomans and is at the crossroads of all hominids movements.

Yeah people underestimate just how much intermixing has occurred in Anatolia. At least 5 million Albanians and perhaps even 10 million Greeks have descendants in current-day Turkey. At least a third of the country is "white" if not even more. Excluding the Kurdish population, most Turks could pass typically or atypically in most parts of Southern Europe. People are too heavily focusing on ethnic Kurds or other minorities who have actual MENA admixture.

I mean hell look at Erdogan. He's not THAT exotic. He passes better in Iberia or Sicily than in actual Arab countries. He doesn't pass in Iran either. At best the Caucasus.

 

[LTG]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="colspan: 2, align: left"]Distance difference: ( AC - BC ) ↑
A: Turkish_East
B: TUR_Ottoman:MA2195
C: ↴[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.26959276[/TD]
[TD]Armenian[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.26844373[/TD]
[TD]Udi[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.26822079[/TD]
[TD]Armenian_Erzurum[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.26818999[/TD]
[TD]Georgian_Meskheti[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.26454459[/TD]
[TD]Armenian_Hemsheni[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.26449022[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Trabzon[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.26410674[/TD]
[TD]Assyrian[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.26333202[/TD]
[TD]Georgian_Jew[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.26062743[/TD]
[TD]Georgian_Laz[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.25998392[/TD]
[TD]Mountain_Jew

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="colspan: 2, align: left"]Distance difference: ( AC - BC ) ↑
A: Turkish_Trabzon
B: TUR_Ottoman:MA2195
C: ↴[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.29894080[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Trabzon[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.28929277[/TD]
[TD]Armenian_Hemsheni[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.28566496[/TD]
[TD]Armenian[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.28509793[/TD]
[TD]Armenian_Erzurum[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.28447970[/TD]
[TD]Georgian_Laz[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.28016478[/TD]
[TD]Georgian_Meskheti[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.27815648[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Cappadocia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.27770752[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Central_Anatolia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.26624622[/TD]
[TD]Assyrian[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.26618866[/TD]
[TD]Georgian_Kakh

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="colspan: 2, align: left"]Distance difference: ( AC - BC ) ↑
A: Turkish_Central
B: TUR_Ottoman:MA2195
C: ↴[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.24289651[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Cappadocia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.24204805[/TD]
[TD]Armenian[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.24186699[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Central_Anatolia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.24184000[/TD]
[TD]Armenian_Erzurum[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.23998304[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Trabzon[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.23948950[/TD]
[TD]Georgian_Jew[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.23927122[/TD]
[TD]Georgian_Meskheti[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.23841996[/TD]
[TD]Assyrian[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.23810402[/TD]
[TD]Mountain_Jew_o[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.23700032[/TD]
[TD]Udi

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="colspan: 2, align: left"]Distance difference: ( AC - BC ) ↑
A: Turkish_South
B: TUR_Ottoman:MA2195
C: ↴[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.21163087[/TD]
[TD]Armenian[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.21140572[/TD]
[TD]Armenian_Erzurum[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.21134605[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Cappadocia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.21107994[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Central_Anatolia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.21097752[/TD]
[TD]Georgian_Meskheti[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.21073914[/TD]
[TD]Georgian_Jew[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.21007381[/TD]
[TD]Assyrian[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.20998494[/TD]
[TD]Udi[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.20969350[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Trabzon[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.20938790[/TD]
[TD]Mountain_Jew_o

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="colspan: 2, align: left"]Distance difference: ( AC - BC ) ↑
A: Turkish_Southwest
B: TUR_Ottoman:MA2195
C: ↴[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.21397365[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Central_Anatolia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.21267299[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Cappadocia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.21229273[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Kos[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.21164575[/TD]
[TD]Cypriot_B[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.21161653[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Dodecanese[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.21066615[/TD]
[TD]Cypriot[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.21058154[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Crete[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.21012534[/TD]
[TD]Georgian_Meskheti[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.20990272[/TD]
[TD]Armenian[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.20977442[/TD]
[TD]Armenian_Erzurum

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="colspan: 2, align: left"]Distance difference: ( AC - BC ) ↑
A: Turkish_Northwest
B: TUR_Ottoman:MA2195
C: ↴[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.21067214[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Central_Anatolia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.21024365[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Cappadocia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.21017924[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Crete[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.21006436[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Kos[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.20944880[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Dodecanese[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.20809490[/TD]
[TD]Cypriot_B[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.20708641[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Calabria[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.20676403[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Izmir[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.20671604[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Campania[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.20668341[/TD]
[TD]Cypriot

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="colspan: 2, align: left"]Distance difference: ( AC - BC ) ↑
A: Turkish_Istanbul
B: TUR_Ottoman:MA2195
C: ↴[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.24656450[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Crete[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.24545075[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Kos[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.24536298[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Central_Anatolia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.24457188[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Dodecanese[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.24413905[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Cappadocia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.24170331[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Izmir[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.24155141[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Calabria[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.24115853[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Campania[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.24107065[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Basilicata[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FFFF, align: right"]-0.24060863[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Apulia

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]