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my grandmother, southern Italian from Campania

gYoWH2S.png


tbAaA4Y.png


1H8UCHV.png




3uWzRSE.png


kB6v3lG.png
 
Duarte, all of a sudden when I add your new Collegno and Szolad sample it says column number mismatch or variable column number in source. Am I doing something wrong?
 
my dodecad k12b updated spreadsheet results

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH]torziok12b[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7.31461551[/TD]
[TD]N_Italian[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10.24966341[/TD]
[TD]O_Italian[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10.73141650[/TD]
[TD]North_Italian[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]12.22643039[/TD]
[TD]TSI30[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13.80326773[/TD]
[TD]Tuscan[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]16.01512098[/TD]
[TD]C_Italian[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]16.27628950[/TD]
[TD]Romanians[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]16.46947479[/TD]
[TD]Baleares[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]17.05822969[/TD]
[TD]Galicia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]17.07617053[/TD]
[TD]Bulgarian[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]17.12228373[/TD]
[TD]Bulgarians[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]17.86829035[/TD]
[TD]Extremadura[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]17.92111604[/TD]
[TD]French[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]18.08995578[/TD]
[TD]French[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]18.38292414[/TD]
[TD]Portuguese[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]20.19489044[/TD]
[TD]Murcia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]20.45467184[/TD]
[TD]Castilla_Y_Leon[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]20.48964617[/TD]
[TD]Cataluna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]20.55820031[/TD]
[TD]Greek[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]20.81762715[/TD]
[TD]Spaniards[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]21.12570946[/TD]
[TD]Canarias[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]21.59592091[/TD]
[TD]Andalucia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]21.78016988[/TD]
[TD]Spanish[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]22.99629535[/TD]
[TD]Mixed_Germanic[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]23.18748801[/TD]
[TD]Hungarians[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]




[TD="class: singleleftcolumn"]51.2[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]N_Italian
[/TD]
[TD="class: singleleftcolumn"]24.2[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]O_Italian[/TD]
[TD="class: singleleftcolumn"] 19.6
[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]German[/TD]
[TD="class: singleleftcolumn"] 1.8
[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Romanians[/TD]
[TD="class: singleleftcolumn"] 1.8
[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Tajiks


[/TD]

same as before
 
K13 ancient

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH]Torzio[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3.14279107[/TD]
[TD]IA_Protovillanovan_Martinsicuro_R1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7.21271793[/TD]
[TD]CL36_collegno_italy_longobard[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7.47605511[/TD]
[TD]SZ36.SG_szolad_hungary_longobard[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7.54191620[/TD]
[TD]SZ28_szolad_hungary_longobard[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7.62072831[/TD]
[TD]RISE254_Szazhalombatta_Foldvar_Hungary_3631_years_GHIJK_Z12203_J1c9[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7.71743481[/TD]
[TD]CL49_collegno_italy_longobard[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7.83749960[/TD]
[TD]DA195_Hungary_Scythian[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8.02793871[/TD]
[TD]SZ43.SG_szolad_hungary_longobard[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8.32675207[/TD]
[TD]DA199_Late_Medieval_Hungary[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8.40845408[/TD]
[TD]SZ45.SG_szolad_hungary_longobard[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8.55622580[/TD]
[TD]SZ37_szolad_hungary_longobard[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8.69714321[/TD]
[TD]SZ32_szolad_hungary_longobard[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8.70789871[/TD]
[TD]CL23_collegno_italy_longobard[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9.38891900[/TD]
[TD]SZ27_szolad_hungary_longobard[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9.47101367[/TD]
[TD]SZ1.SG_szolad_hungary_longobard[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9.66252038[/TD]
[TD]IA_Civitavecchia_R474[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9.66802979[/TD]
[TD]SZ31_Longobard_M_T1a1a_PF5620_U4c2a_6-th_century[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10.28309292[/TD]
[TD]I7498_Muslim_Iberian_1000_1100_CE_E1b1b1a1b1a_H3a1_2[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10.32287751[/TD]
[TD]scy192_scythian_2863_2503bce[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10.45008134[/TD]
[TD]CL94_collegno_italy_longobard[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10.54462896[/TD]
[TD]CL57_collegno_italy_longobard[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10.83154190[/TD]
[TD]ScythianMoldova_SCY197_Moldova_288502632_BC[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11.10855526[/TD]
[TD]SZ18_szolad_hungary_longobard[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11.34702604[/TD]
[TD]CL47_collegno_italy_longobard[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11.45461916[/TD]
[TD]I7498_Muslim_Iberian_1000_1100_CE_E1b1b1a1b1a_H3a1[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]



[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH]trentinoCles[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: hsl(80.04058058479828, 100%, 50%)"]4.99492743[/TD]
[TD]SZ43.SG_szolad_hungary_longobard[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: hsl(67.32208052703675, 100%, 50%)"]6.58473993[/TD]
[TD]IA_Protovillanovan_Martinsicuro_R1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: hsl(64.92344237336539, 100%, 50%)"]6.88456970[/TD]
[TD]SZ31_Longobard_M_T1a1a_PF5620_U4c2a_6-th_century[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: hsl(61.91173612510011, 100%, 50%)"]7.26103298[/TD]
[TD]ScythianMoldova_SCY197_Moldova_288502632_BC[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: hsl(60.27026201296379, 100%, 50%)"]7.46621725[/TD]
[TD]IA_Civitavecchia_R474[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: hsl(59.28822190052413, 100%, 50%)"]7.58897226[/TD]
[TD]SZ36.SG_szolad_hungary_longobard[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: hsl(57.451561170561575, 100%, 50%)"]7.81855485[/TD]
[TD]RISE254_Szazhalombatta_Foldvar_Hungary_3631_years_GHIJK_Z12203_J1c9[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: hsl(54.86570181540296, 100%, 50%)"]8.14178727[/TD]
[TD]I7424_morisco[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: hsl(54.82714675572352, 100%, 50%)"]8.14660666[/TD]
[TD]CL36_collegno_italy_longobard[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: hsl(53.937532592250236, 100%, 50%)"]8.25780843[/TD]
[TD]I7498_Muslim_Iberian_1000_1100_CE_E1b1b1a1b1a_H3a1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: hsl(49.259957591191665, 100%, 50%)"]8.84250530[/TD]
[TD]SZ37_szolad_hungary_longobard[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: hsl(48.78395686363922, 100%, 50%)"]8.90200539[/TD]
[TD]I7498_Muslim_Iberian_1000_1100_CE_E1b1b1a1b1a_H3a1_2[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: hsl(43.93972916167074, 100%, 50%)"]9.50753385[/TD]
[TD]CL23_collegno_italy_longobard[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: hsl(43.77280275387267, 100%, 50%)"]9.52839966[/TD]
[TD]I7424_morisco2[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: hsl(43.388648360703115, 100%, 50%)"]9.57641895[/TD]
[TD]I12647_iberia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: hsl(42.09293741899904, 100%, 50%)"]9.73838282[/TD]
[TD]CL49_collegno_italy_longobard[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: hsl(41.83508715542504, 100%, 50%)"]9.77061411[/TD]
[TD]I12647_iberia2[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: hsl(40.35020652883023, 100%, 50%)"]9.95622418[/TD]
[TD]SZ28_szolad_hungary_longobard[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: hsl(37.79658401258497, 100%, 50%)"]10.27542700[/TD]
[TD]SZ32_szolad_hungary_longobard[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: hsl(35.90736536414143, 100%, 50%)"]10.51157933[/TD]
[TD]scy192_scythian_2863_2503bce[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: hsl(34.67670892423335, 100%, 50%)"]10.66541138[/TD]
[TD]I12516_iberia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: hsl(32.514814968475946, 100%, 50%)"]10.93564813[/TD]
[TD]SZ1.SG_szolad_hungary_longobard[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: hsl(32.45247233645031, 100%, 50%)"]10.94344096[/TD]
[TD]IA_Civitavecchia_R473[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: hsl(29.42053212786024, 100%, 50%)"]11.32243348[/TD]
[TD]CrusaderSI41KingdomofJerusalem[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: hsl(24.339366508474342, 100%, 50%)"]11.95757919[/TD]
[TD]SZ27_szolad_hungary_longobard[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 
OK, my K12b without Szolad and Collego since they aren't working for some reason.
[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #72FF00, align: right"]3.35070082[/TD]
[TD]France_Corsica[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #C8FF00, align: right"]5.88253772[/TD]
[TD]Italy_Tuscany[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #CEFF00, align: right"]6.05046701[/TD]
[TD]Italy_Emilia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #DCFF00, align: right"]6.46549999[/TD]
[TD]Italy_Liguria[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FCFF00, align: right"]7.41275253[/TD]
[TD]Italy_Romagna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFF00, align: right"]7.49533572[/TD]
[TD]Italy_Lombardy[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFCC00, align: right"]9.01179227[/TD]
[TD]MA_Cancelleria_R1283[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFC800, align: right"]9.10498215[/TD]
[TD]IA_Castel_di_Decima_R1016[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFBF00, align: right"]9.37771817[/TD]
[TD]Italy_Marche[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFBE00, align: right"]9.40447500[/TD]
[TD]Italy_Piedmont[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFBE00, align: right"]9.40529638[/TD]
[TD]LA_Celio_R36[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFB700, align: right"]9.61917356[/TD]
[TD]IA_Veio_Grotta_Gramiccia_R1015[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFB100, align: right"]9.80181106[/TD]
[TD]IA_Protovillanovan_Martinsicuro_R1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFB000, align: right"]9.81684050[/TD]
[TD]Italy_Veneto[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFA000, align: right"]10.29759195[/TD]
[TD]LA_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia_R118[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF9C00, align: right"]10.41448482[/TD]
[TD]Italy_Lazio[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF9000, align: right"]10.76144972[/TD]
[TD]IA_Civitavecchia_R474[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF8C00, align: right"]10.89582948[/TD]
[TD]IA_Boville_Ernica_R1021[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF8B00, align: right"]10.91793937[/TD]
[TD]IA_Civitavecchia_R473[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF7800, align: right"]11.46905892[/TD]
[TD]Swiss_Italian[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF4B00, align: right"]12.79029632[/TD]
[TD]Italy_Trentino[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF4600, align: right"]12.93960726[/TD]
[TD]Italy_FriuliVG[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF4600, align: right"]12.94033230[/TD]
[TD]MA_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti_R969[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF3E00, align: right"]13.18377791[/TD]
[TD]IA_Latin_Ardea_R851[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF3C00, align: right"]13.23101281[/TD]
[TD]MA_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti_R970[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

I'd really like to know if those Corsican samples came from people of mixed Corsican/French ancestry.
 
Does anyone have a link to the part of the Grugni paper where they listed their samples by area? My memory of it is that they used samples only from certain specific areas, and some of them were counterintuitive, as well: Viterbo being their "Central Italian" sample, for example.
 
Perhaps these "new" Italian samples are actually the ones from the Raveane et al paper. There's no comparison between those samples and the ones traditionally used, which is probably why I get such a different result to "Northern Italian" depending on whether they're using Bergamo or a rather eclectic collection of "Northern Italians".

I don't know whether it's such a good idea to include them but keep the old ones at the same time.

As for the Corsican sample, I think it comes from this paper on Corsica, which chose its Corsican samples (for geographical coverage) from the DiCristoforo paper, and nowhere did they say that they checked or even asked whether all four grandparents were from Corsica.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-49901-8

With a lot of papers coming from young, NOT seasoned researchers, we're going to have a mess on our hands.
 
Angela said:
Does anyone have a link to the part of the Grugni paper where they listed their samples by area? My memory of it is that they used samples only from certain specific areas, and some of them were counterintuitive, as well: Viterbo being their "Central Italian" sample, for example.
Click to expand...


There was no North-east of Italy in the Grugni samples..............other north italian area where present

https://www.researchgate.net/public...ghts_from_a_male_Y-chromosome_perspective#pf2
 
These are the K12b results of one of my matches. Mother was from Capri, and father was allegedly from Sicily:


Capture-d-cran-2020-01-04-11-33-59.png

Capture-d-cran-2020-01-04-11-34-57.png
 
TardisBlue said:
These are the K12b results of one of my matches. Mother was from Capri, and father was allegedly from Sicily:


Capture-d-cran-2020-01-04-11-33-59.png

Capture-d-cran-2020-01-04-11-34-57.png
Click to expand...

I wonder if the "Turk" samples are from Pontic Greek areas.

Once again, we see the problem we always had with using modern samples, i.e. there were no Ashkenazi Jews in Italy until they fled Germany, and some from the end of the 19th century, and even then they were a handful, and mostly in the north, so they can have had nothing to do with the ethnogenesis of southern Italians.
 
Angela said:
I wonder if the "Turk" samples are from Pontic Greek areas.
Click to expand...

The Pontian Greeks cluster close to Hamshen Armenians and Georgian Laz (and of course the Trabzon_Turks with no C.Asian admix) not with the rest of the Turkish population. Overlapping Greeks and Turks can be from areas like Asian Minor, Istanbul, and Cappadocia.

PCA and distances using G25 population averages:

yQVbHYE.png


Screenshot-2020-01-04-Vahaduo-JS-19-11-2.png
 
Angela said:
I wonder if the "Turk" samples are from Pontic Greek areas.

Once again, we see the problem we always had with using modern samples, i.e. there were no Ashkenazi Jews in Italy until they fled Germany, and some from the end of the 19th century, and even then they were a handful, and mostly in the north, so they can have had nothing to do with the ethnogenesis of southern Italians.
Click to expand...

This is her K15 ancient:

Capture-d-cran-2020-01-04-11-45-38.png

Capture-d-cran-2020-01-04-11-45-06.png


And her K13 ancient:

Capture-d-cran-2020-01-04-16-16-49.png

Capture-d-cran-2020-01-04-16-18-34.png

Capture-d-cran-2020-01-04-16-18-58.png
 
Angela said:
I wonder if the "Turk" samples are from Pontic Greek areas.

Once again, we see the problem we always had with using modern samples, i.e. there were no Ashkenazi Jews in Italy until they fled Germany, and some from the end of the 19th century, and even then they were a handful, and mostly in the north, so they can have had nothing to do with the ethnogenesis of southern Italians.
Click to expand...

Pontic Greeks usually end up more like the Armenians than the Turks.

I don't find G25 completely accurate, but that's the current situation.

Where there are so many populations the labels don't match perfectly own their clusters.


FgltoAm.jpg
 
@mlukas
Iberian Samples to help developing the Vahaduo Dodecad K12b Ancient:

LBA_ElSotillo_Alava_I2469,9.22,0.00,1.86,0.32,52.61,20.57,1.16,0.00,0.87,0.00,13.40,0.00
BronzeAgeNorthernSpain_I2472,1.14,0.00,3.50,1.18,56.65,26.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,11.52,0.00
CeltiberianMixTribeNorthernSpain_I3238,2.44,0.00,3.07,0.00,44.99,36.67,0.52,0.00,0.17,0.60,10.96,0.59
Pre-RomanGirona_I3324,5.56,1.29,0.00,0.00,52.03,29.28,0.00,0.00,3.67,0.32,7.07,0.77
LateRomanIberiaGranada_I3576,3.39,1.20,10.98,0.00,37.27,15.84,0.00,1.46,9.98,0.03,17.96,1.88
LateRomanIberiaGranada_I3581,2.25,0.00,9.46,0.99,36.90,18.80,0.00,0.42,12.18,0.62,16.63,1.75
EarlyMedievalAndalusia_I3585,4.00,0.76,7.98,0.00,40.89,21.30,1.15,2.10,7.58,0.29,13.67,0.26
EarlyMedievalIberiaGranada_I3981,5.23,0.02,8.00,0.74,43.54,17.45,0.00,1.85,6.11,0.00,15.69,1.37
RomanVillaGranadaSpain_I4055,6.34,0.29,11.67,0.00,35.87,20.88,0.00,3.68,15.38,0.36,5.46,0.06
MoriscoConvertAndalusia_I7425,4.46,0.00,11.07,1.63,34.23,17.00,0.00,2.36,7.37,0.00,17.40,4.48
CarthagoMaghrebiAndalusia_I7457,3.88,0.00,10.09,0.00,37.97,18.30,0.00,2.07,8.05,0.00,16.16,3.50
HispanoRomanMaghrebiCordobaCaliphate_I7497,1.70,0.00,4.03,0.00,42.32,12.32,0.00,0.32,14.03,3.23,18.18,3.87
IberianCordobaCaliphate_I7498,1.57,1.18,7.25,0.00,37.31,21.69,2.00,0.79,8.98,0.46,17.01,1.75
VasconicTribe_I8209,6.77,0.00,1.74,0.00,48.23,30.32,0.21,0.60,0.79,0.17,11.18,0.00
RomanEraGirona_I8339,2.27,0.00,0.00,0.22,49.12,31.98,3.72,0.00,5.88,0.79,5.59,0.44
RomanCarthagoMixIberia_I8475,4.30,0.33,5.35,0.00,39.62,19.72,1.18,0.14,7.35,0.00,22.00,0.00
GironaSantJuliadeRamis_I10851,7.04,0.00,0.00,0.00,39.28,30.10,1.85,2.44,5.97,0.00,13.33,0.00
GironaSantJuliadeRamis_I10852,7.32,0.00,3.77,0.00,43.67,27.11,1.41,0.37,5.94,0.00,9.37,1.03
GironaSantJuliadeRamis_I10853,3.61,0.00,6.44,0.00,38.24,26.00,1.37,0.00,6.47,0.00,17.25,0.63
GalloRomanCeltMixIberia_I10866,4.02,0.48,8.95,0.00,39.73,28.49,0.11,2.53,6.47,0.00,6.62,2.62
GironaSantJuliadeRamis_I10892,5.59,0.26,3.58,0.41,44.49,24.42,0.33,1.20,5.21,0.00,14.35,0.16
GironaSantJuliadeRamis_I10895,3.18,0.37,5.23,0.41,43.22,25.89,0.00,0.60,6.19,0.00,14.57,0.33
VisigothFrankishGirona_I12032,7.89,1.02,2.62,0.00,37.25,38.02,0.00,0.20,0.00,0.00,12.74,0.26
VisigothIberianGirona_I12034,4.09,0.00,0.00,1.22,49.32,29.61,0.69,0.00,1.50,0.86,12.33,0.38
BronzeAgeSpainCogotas_I12208,1.39,0.00,5.31,0.43,54.53,22.97,1.16,0.00,3.96,0.94,8.35,0.95
BronzeAgeSpainCogotas_I12209,0.00,0.00,4.43,1.66,55.40,27.36,0.00,0.00,3.50,0.00,7.08,0.56
IlergetesOutlierCatalan_I12410,0.26,0.00,3.37,0.76,57.15,25.49,0.00,0.16,0.53,0.81,10.56,0.91
PortugueseCordobaCaliphate_I12514,2.62,1.23,7.21,0.04,39.51,25.34,0.00,0.00,7.84,1.09,13.31,1.81
SpaniardCordobaCaliphate_I12515,4.18,0.00,8.23,0.18,37.93,21.03,0.00,0.00,9.03,1.04,17.24,1.15
PortugueseCordobaCaliphate_I12516,3.00,0.59,4.20,0.41,43.15,22.89,0.00,2.18,4.70,0.00,18.05,0.81
TartessianArchaicAndalusia_I12561,2.75,0.00,0.00,0.00,64.04,17.25,6.88,0.00,5.47,0.00,3.61,0.00
IronAgeCatalan_I12640,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,52.97,24.35,0.00,0.00,5.65,0.00,15.41,1.61
HispanoRomanTaifaofValencia_I12644,2.34,1.37,10.60,0.00,36.12,19.10,0.00,1.78,10.72,0.00,16.68,1.29
HispanoRomanTaifaofValencia_I12647,2.44,0.70,9.01,0.00,36.94,20.28,0.00,1.89,8.27,0.00,18.90,1.58
MedievalTaifaofValencia_I12649,9.43,0.96,4.90,0.00,43.04,19.67,0.00,0.81,7.33,0.00,13.86,0.00
IlergetesTribeCatalan_I12878,0.45,0.28,5.90,0.00,57.80,28.10,0.55,0.00,1.02,0.00,5.91,0.00
BronzeAgeNorthernSpain_VAD001,3.95,0.00,0.00,0.00,56.95,26.02,1.54,0.00,3.09,0.00,7.87,0.59
BAIberiaValdescusaLaRioja_VAD002,0.00,1.91,0.00,0.91,61.64,25.41,0.00,0.00,3.70,0.87,5.56,0.00
Roman_Soldier_FN_2,1.16,0.00,2.13,0.14,47.26,32.04,0.00,0.00,2.96,0.00,13.75,0.57


Sources:
1)BAM files Iberians:
https://www.ebi.ac.uk/ena/browser/view/PRJEB30874

2)Roman_Soldier_FN_2:
GEDmatch Kit Number: Z061309

3)BAM files Italians:
https://www.ebi.ac.uk/ena/browser/view/PRJEB32566
 
Last edited:
My results "Vahaduo Dodecad K12b updated spreadsheet" with following sources: Vahaduo default + post #185(Jovialis) + post #205(Duarte) + post #249(Duarte) + post #296(Duarte):

crKLyRs.png

IUgYpKw.png
 
Here is the samples I've done thus far, with the previous others included:

MA_Villa_Magna_R57,6.89,0,2.97,0.58,27.50,15.59,0,0,0.58,0,34.62,0
MA_Villa_Magna_R58,5.26,0,1.27,0,28.14,15.43,0,0,12.83,0,35.80,0.05
MA_Villa_Magna_R59,4.24,0,2.25,0.19,28.74,15.80,0.31,0,12.53,0.66,34.39,0.88
MA_Villa_Magna_R60,6.75,0.68,3.35,0,27.36,18.94,0,1.54,11.04,0,30.34,0
MA_Villa_Magna_R65,7.61,0,2.22,0.30,28.15,13.40,0,0,12.74,0,35.20,0.38
MA_Villa_Magna_R1290,6.30,0,1.09,0.34,30.16,15.96,0.27,0,12.04,0.09,32.81,0.93
MA_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti_R970,9.25,0,5.12,0.53,29.32,18.41,0,0,7.11,0,30.25,0.01
MA_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti_R973,8.17,0.16,2.94,0,28.76,15.28,0,0,10.56,0.15,33.57,0.40
MA_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti_R969,6.45,0.25,0.99,0,30.40,17.81,0.65,1.10,11.67,0,30.67,0
MA_Cancelleria_R1283,4.58,0,1.73,0,34.27,18.15,0,0.08,11.02,0,29.41,0.75
LA_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia_R121,7.68,0,2.81,0,29.21,18.18,0,0.90,11.76,0,29.47,0
LA_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia_R118,7.28,0.85,1.85,0,34.72,14.81,0,0,11.95,0,28.29,0.24
LA_Mausole_di_Augusto_R30,7.67,0,4.49,0.47,27.43,8.56,0.25,1.38,11.74,0.86,37.00,0.24
LA_Mausole_di_Augusto_R32,5.90,0,7.07,0.12,29.06,12.90,1.05,1.03,7.57,0,35.31,0
LA_Crypta_Balbi_R107,3.12,0,2.59,0,30.01,16.90,1.72,0,13.16,0,32.50,0
LA_Crypta_Balbi_R110,4.57,1.19,2.38,0.76,41.91,24.74,0.07,0,4.24,0,18.96,0.17
LA_Celio_R36,7.23,0,3.17,0,32.85,20.10,0,0.35,9.77,0,26.50,0.02
LA_Celio_R35,5.62,0,4.55,0.11,28.56,13.42,1.72,0.59,12.58,0,32.74,0.11
Imperial_Monterotondo_R1549,9.97,0,3.98,0.04,27.49,20.49,0,0.96,10.94,0.05,26.09,0
Imperial_Monterotondo_R1548,10.45,0,1.98,0,23.44,10.87,0,0.17,13.89,0,39.20,0
Imperial_Monterotondo_R1551,14.46,0,0.14,0,10.32,4.49,0,0.80,14.76,0,54.71,0.33
Imperial_Civitanova_Marche_R836,8.69,0,0.99,0,30.95,15.55,0,0,10.40,0,33.42,0
Imperial_Marcellino_&_Pietro_R132,1.95,0,17.82,1.68,24.91,4.20,0,6.73,16.66,0.14,24.20,1.71
Imperial_Marcellino_&_Pietro_R134,8.38,0,5.00,0.32,22.37,7.35,0,1.16,15.45,0,39.61,0
Imperial_Marcellino_&_Pietro_R136,8.83,0.08,3.88,0,26.08,13.09,0.38,0,12.75,0,34.91,0
Imperial_Necropolis_of_Monte_Agnese_R1543,8.61,0,6.43,0,21.01,9.18,0.27,0.24,15.01,0.04,39.07,0.15
Imperial_Necropolis_of_Monte_Agnese_R1545,7.66,0,1.16,0.13,25.08,8.12,1.02,0.68,15.23,0,40.91,0.01
Imperial_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis_R131,7.30,0.24,0.94,0.57,31.63,13.18,0.27,0,11.79,0,33.23,0.84
Imperial_Isola_Sacra_Necropolis_R37,2.14,1.00,2.70,0,50.70,31.46,0,0,4.24,0,7.65,0.12
Imperial_Isola_Sacra_Necropolis_R38,11.97,0.24,2.94,0,17.99,1.99,0.16,0.30,18.03,0,46.26,0.13
IA_Latin_Ardea_R850,7.30,0,4.52,1.08,21.26,10.54,0,0.43,14.77,0,40.10,0
IA_Latin_Ardea_R851,1.59,0,1.39,0,49.28,24.97,0,0.14,1.93,0,20.26,0.45
IA_Latin_Prenestina_Colombella_R435,4.84,0.64,0.65,0,47.12,28.54,0.15,0,4.13,0,13.40,0.53
IA_Latin_Prenestina_Selicata_R437,6.45,0,3.03,0,33.19,11.94,0,0,11.63,0,33.74,0.02
IA_Civitavecchia_R475,0,0,13.01,0,38.12,12.14,0.37,1.98,11.26,0,22.70,0.42
IA_Civitavecchia_R474,7.18,0.17,2.38,0,39.08,25.74,0,0,5.98,0,18.84,0.66
IA_Civitavecchia_R473,1.01,0,0.68,0.15,47.26,22.79,0,0.21,7.39,0.21,20.17,0.34
IA_Veio_Grotta_Gramiccia_R1015,1.56,0.19,2.85,0,47.15,21.66,0,0,5.46,0,20.85,0
IA_Protovillanovan_Martinsicuro_R1,5.02,1.78,1.33,0,35.08,26.46,0,0,5.43,0,24.50,0.40
IA_Castel_di_Decima_R1016,3.86,0.98,1.53,0.19,47.23,20.37,1.43,0,3.31,0,21.10,0
IA_Boville_Ernica_R1021,2.11,0,1.96,0.60,47.70,24.04,0,0,1.33,0,22.26,0
N_Grotta_Continenza_R2,0,0,3.98,0,54.75,0,0,0,11.90,0,29.37,0
N_Grotta_Continenza_R8,0,0,2.83,0,53.23,0,0,0,13.82,0.25,29.87,0
N_Grotta_Continenza_R9,0,0,3.27,0,50.85,0,0,0,13.25,0,32.63,0
 
Jovialis said:
Here is the samples I've done thus far, with the previous others included:

MA_Villa_Magna_R57,6.89,0,2.97,0.58,27.50,15.59,0,0,0.58,0,34.62,0
MA_Villa_Magna_R58,5.26,0,1.27,0,28.14,15.43,0,0,12.83,0,35.80,0.05
MA_Villa_Magna_R59,4.24,0,2.25,0.19,28.74,15.80,0.31,0,12.53,0.66,34.39,0.88
MA_Villa_Magna_R60,6.75,0.68,3.35,0,27.36,18.94,0,1.54,11.04,0,30.34,0
MA_Villa_Magna_R65,7.61,0,2.22,0.30,28.15,13.40,0,0,12.74,0,35.20,0.38
MA_Villa_Magna_R1290,6.30,0,1.09,0.34,30.16,15.96,0.27,0,12.04,0.09,32.81,0.93
MA_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti_R970,9.25,0,5.12,0.53,29.32,18.41,0,0,7.11,0,30.25,0.01
MA_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti_R973,8.17,0.16,2.94,0,28.76,15.28,0,0,10.56,0.15,33.57,0.40
MA_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti_R969,6.45,0.25,0.99,0,30.40,17.81,0.65,1.10,11.67,0,30.67,0
MA_Cancelleria_R1283,4.58,0,1.73,0,34.27,18.15,0,0.08,11.02,0,29.41,0.75
LA_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia_R121,7.68,0,2.81,0,29.21,18.18,0,0.90,11.76,0,29.47,0
LA_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia_R118,7.28,0.85,1.85,0,34.72,14.81,0,0,11.95,0,28.29,0.24
LA_Mausole_di_Augusto_R30,7.67,0,4.49,0.47,27.43,8.56,0.25,1.38,11.74,0.86,37.00,0.24
LA_Mausole_di_Augusto_R32,5.90,0,7.07,0.12,29.06,12.90,1.05,1.03,7.57,0,35.31,0
LA_Crypta_Balbi_R107,3.12,0,2.59,0,30.01,16.90,1.72,0,13.16,0,32.50,0
LA_Crypta_Balbi_R110,4.57,1.19,2.38,0.76,41.91,24.74,0.07,0,4.24,0,18.96,0.17
LA_Celio_R36,7.23,0,3.17,0,32.85,20.10,0,0.35,9.77,0,26.50,0.02
LA_Celio_R35,5.62,0,4.55,0.11,28.56,13.42,1.72,0.59,12.58,0,32.74,0.11
Imperial_Monterotondo_R1549,9.97,0,3.98,0.04,27.49,20.49,0,0.96,10.94,0.05,26.09,0
Imperial_Monterotondo_R1548,10.45,0,1.98,0,23.44,10.87,0,0.17,13.89,0,39.20,0
Imperial_Monterotondo_R1551,14.46,0,0.14,0,10.32,4.49,0,0.80,14.76,0,54.71,0.33
Imperial_Civitanova_Marche_R836,8.69,0,0.99,0,30.95,15.55,0,0,10.40,0,33.42,0
Imperial_Marcellino_&_Pietro_R132,1.95,0,17.82,1.68,24.91,4.20,0,6.73,16.66,0.14,24.20,1.71
Imperial_Marcellino_&_Pietro_R134,8.38,0,5.00,0.32,22.37,7.35,0,1.16,15.45,0,39.61,0
Imperial_Marcellino_&_Pietro_R136,8.83,0.08,3.88,0,26.08,13.09,0.38,0,12.75,0,34.91,0
Imperial_Necropolis_of_Monte_Agnese_R1543,8.61,0,6.43,0,21.01,9.18,0.27,0.24,15.01,0.04,39.07,0.15
Imperial_Necropolis_of_Monte_Agnese_R1545,7.66,0,1.16,0.13,25.08,8.12,1.02,0.68,15.23,0,40.91,0.01
Imperial_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis_R131,7.30,0.24,0.94,0.57,31.63,13.18,0.27,0,11.79,0,33.23,0.84
Imperial_Isola_Sacra_Necropolis_R37,2.14,1.00,2.70,0,50.70,31.46,0,0,4.24,0,7.65,0.12
Imperial_Isola_Sacra_Necropolis_R38,11.97,0.24,2.94,0,17.99,1.99,0.16,0.30,18.03,0,46.26,0.13
IA_Latin_Ardea_R850,7.30,0,4.52,1.08,21.26,10.54,0,0.43,14.77,0,40.10,0
IA_Latin_Ardea_R851,1.59,0,1.39,0,49.28,24.97,0,0.14,1.93,0,20.26,0.45
IA_Latin_Prenestina_Colombella_R435,4.84,0.64,0.65,0,47.12,28.54,0.15,0,4.13,0,13.40,0.53
IA_Latin_Prenestina_Selicata_R437,6.45,0,3.03,0,33.19,11.94,0,0,11.63,0,33.74,0.02
IA_Civitavecchia_R475,0,0,13.01,0,38.12,12.14,0.37,1.98,11.26,0,22.70,0.42
IA_Civitavecchia_R474,7.18,0.17,2.38,0,39.08,25.74,0,0,5.98,0,18.84,0.66
IA_Civitavecchia_R473,1.01,0,0.68,0.15,47.26,22.79,0,0.21,7.39,0.21,20.17,0.34
IA_Veio_Grotta_Gramiccia_R1015,1.56,0.19,2.85,0,47.15,21.66,0,0,5.46,0,20.85,0
IA_Protovillanovan_Martinsicuro_R1,5.02,1.78,1.33,0,35.08,26.46,0,0,5.43,0,24.50,0.40
IA_Castel_di_Decima_R1016,3.86,0.98,1.53,0.19,47.23,20.37,1.43,0,3.31,0,21.10,0
IA_Boville_Ernica_R1021,2.11,0,1.96,0.60,47.70,24.04,0,0,1.33,0,22.26,0
N_Grotta_Continenza_R2,0,0,3.98,0,54.75,0,0,0,11.90,0,29.37,0
N_Grotta_Continenza_R8,0,0,2.83,0,53.23,0,0,0,13.82,0.25,29.87,0
N_Grotta_Continenza_R9,0,0,3.27,0,50.85,0,0,0,13.25,0,32.63,0
Click to expand...

my results with your data above

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH]torziok12b[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4.65249395[/TD]
[TD]IA_Civitavecchia_R474[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4.86300319[/TD]
[TD]IA_Protovillanovan_Martinsicuro_R1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7.31461551[/TD]
[TD]N_Italian[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8.04563857[/TD]
[TD]LA_Crypta_Balbi_R110[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10.24966341[/TD]
[TD]O_Italian[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10.73141650[/TD]
[TD]North_Italian[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10.85074652[/TD]
[TD]LA_Celio_R36[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]12.22643039[/TD]
[TD]TSI30[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13.78514055[/TD]
[TD]Imperial_Monterotondo_R1549[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13.80326773[/TD]
[TD]Tuscan[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]14.00105710[/TD]
[TD]IA_Latin_Prenestina_Colombella_R435[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]14.07171987[/TD]
[TD]IA_Civitavecchia_R473[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]14.17553174[/TD]
[TD]MA_Cancelleria_R1283[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]14.20135205[/TD]
[TD]IA_Veio_Grotta_Gramiccia_R1015[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]14.41937585[/TD]
[TD]IA_Boville_Ernica_R1021[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]14.47632550[/TD]
[TD]IA_Castel_di_Decima_R1016[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]15.47923771[/TD]
[TD]MA_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti_R970[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]15.48482160[/TD]
[TD]IA_Latin_Ardea_R851[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]15.69879932[/TD]
[TD]LA_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia_R121[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]16.01512098[/TD]
[TD]C_Italian[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]16.10745480[/TD]
[TD]MA_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti_R969[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]16.22593911[/TD]
[TD]LA_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia_R118[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]16.27628950[/TD]
[TD]Romanians[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]16.46947479[/TD]
[TD]Baleares[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]16.47231010[/TD]
[TD]MA_Villa_Magna_R60[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]




Target: torziok12b
[TD="class: singleleftcolumn"] 53.4
[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]IA_Civitavecchia_R474[/TD]
[TD="class: singleleftcolumn"] 46.6
[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]IA_Protovillanovan_Martinsicuro_R1[/TD]
 
brick said:
Pontic Greeks usually end up more like the Armenians than the Turks.

I don't find G25 completely accurate, but that's the current situation.

Where there are so many populations the labels don't match perfectly own their clusters.


FgltoAm.jpg
Click to expand...

Also Armenians sit with Kurds
Kurds history states.....they came from ancient Medes
Medes came for south of the Aral Sea and east of the caspian sea


And not with Persians, who originate circa 1100BC in Uzbekistan then migrated to modern Iran

This is the consensus
 
dosas said:
The Pontian Greeks cluster close to Hamshen Armenians and Georgian Laz (and of course the Trabzon_Turks with no C.Asian admix) not with the rest of the Turkish population. Overlapping Greeks and Turks can be from areas like Asian Minor, Istanbul, and Cappadocia.

PCA and distances using G25 population averages:

yQVbHYE.png


Screenshot-2020-01-04-Vahaduo-JS-19-11-2.png
Click to expand...

Well, the western Black Sea coast could be the heavily Balkan admixed "Turks" of the far northwest, and central might make sense as well, but there's no way Southern Italians could be that related to Crimean Tatars with their heavy Turkic input.

Something weird is going on all of a sudden with these calculators since the Grugni/Raveane samples were added. Who prepared them for upload to calculators?
 
Angela said:
Well, the western Black Sea coast could be the heavily Balkan admixed "Turks" of the far northwest, and central might make sense as well, but there's no way Southern Italians could be that related to Crimean Tatars with their heavy Turkic input.

Something weird is going on all of a sudden with these calculators since the Grugni/Raveane samples were added. Who prepared them for upload to calculators?
Click to expand...

Only a small part of the samples from Raveane 2019 have been uploaded into the G25, because not all Raveane 2019 samples have been released.

Of course these samples are chosen, prepared and uploaded by the creator of the G25, who is the only person who can do it. Therefore the accuracy of the averages and the results of the individual samples, both modern and ancient, depend exclusively on Davidski.
 
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