Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature currently requires accessing the site using the built-in Safari browser.
So, do you consider 7 to be a close match, or is that rather middling?
I always thought of myself as English/Dutch/German (predominantly northern Germany), the standard early American mix. My closest ancient populations seem to support that,
1. Saxon Hinxton (720 AD) (5.171)
2. Colonial American Pennsylvania (1700 AD) (5.276)
3. Medieval Denmark (1250 AD) (5.779)
4. Frankish/Hungary (590 AD) (6.0)
5. Bell Beaker Scotland (6.325)
6. Alemannic Bavaria (500 AD) (6.426)
7. Viking Saxon Iceland (6.635)
8. Medieval Norway Sankt Nikolai B (1349 AD) (7.252)
9. Post Viking Denmark Odense (1250 AD) (7.479)
10. Anglo Saxon (780 AD) (7.49)
When I started this thread 10 years ago I mentioned that I identified with Germanic (Frankish), Celtic and Italic/Roman ancestry. I have since estimated that my ancestral blend would be approximately 50% Germanic (about half from Denmark through the Franks and half from assimilated tribes in northern and western Germany), 35% Celtic and 15% Italic/Latin/Roman.
The availability of ancient DNA samples from all Europe has now made it possible to compare the genetic distance from these ancient peoples. My closest population is indeed the Franks (genetic distance of 7 for closest match), then the Celts (GD=9 for Hinxton2), the Saxons (GD=9.5 for Hinxton1) and medieval Danes (GD=10~12). My closest ancient Latin sample (R435 from Palestrina) is at a GD of 12, about the same distance as Danish Vikings.
Half from assimilated tribes in northern and western Germany
And even more from the Danes, this overlap is small and more NW Dutch.about half from Denmark through the Franks
I have since estimated that my ancestral blend would be approximately 50% Germanic (about half from Denmark through the Franks and half from assimilated tribes in northern and western Germany
I quite disagree with you Maciamo. Based on latest research about the Lowlands,
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.01.01.892513v2
The Belgian/South Dutch overlap:
it is very clear that Belgium and South Dutch are overlapping, that could be considered Frankish.
But they are quite separated from the North Germans and the Danes!
The Belgians and South Dutch are quite on distance from the North Germans, only the NE Dutch are very close:
And even more from the Danes, this overlap is small and more NW Dutch.
Speaking about my self (outmost North Dutch) this comes very close to the original Anglo-Saxons and other Ingvaeonic North Sea German dwellers. As fare as I can see the 'the Franks', Belgians/South Dutch are quite on distance.....the tombola of all ancient samples in G25 (eurogenes).
Distance to: | Torzio_scaled |
---|---|
0.02559149 | BEAKERS-CENTRAL-EUROPEAN:Beaker_Central_Europe_I5524 |
0.03801966 | BEAKERS-CENTRAL-EUROPEAN:Beaker_Central_Europe_I4885 |
0.04063399 | BEAKERS-CENTRAL-EUROPEAN:Beaker_Central_Europe_E09538 |
0.04298622 | BEAKERS-CENTRAL-EUROPEAN:Beaker_Central_Europe_I3590 |
0.04372055 | BEAKERS-IBERIA-ITALY:Beaker_Northern_Italy_I2478 |
0.04888005 | BEAKERS-CENTRAL-EUROPEAN:Beaker_Central_Europe_I5759 |
0.04991541 | BEAKERS-CENTRAL-EUROPEAN:Beaker_Central_Europe_I4887 |
0.05018206 | BEAKERS-CENTRAL-EUROPEAN:Beaker_Central_Europe_I5017 |
0.05216697 | BEAKERS-CENTRAL-EUROPEAN:Beaker_Central_Europe_I5520 |
0.05484287 | BEAKERS-CENTRAL-EUROPEAN:Beaker_Central_Europe_I5529 |
0.05683393 | BEAKERS-CENTRAL-EUROPEAN:Beaker_Central_Europe_I4888 |
0.05774157 | BEAKERS-HUNGARY:Beaker_Hungary_I3529 |
0.05814508 | BEAKERS-CENTRAL-EUROPEAN:Beaker_Central_Europe_I6591 |
0.05854680 | BEAKERS-CENTRAL-EUROPEAN:Beaker_Central_Europe_I6581 |
0.05878922 | BEAKERS-CENTRAL-EUROPEAN:Beaker_Central_Europe_I4896 |
0.05964394 | BEAKERS-CENTRAL-EUROPEAN:Beaker_Central_Europe_I4891 |
0.05964717 | BEAKERS-HUNGARY:Beaker_Hungary_I2364 |
0.05983243 | BEAKERS-CENTRAL-EUROPEAN:Beaker_Central_Europe_I7275 |
0.06054558 | BEAKERS-NETHERLANDS:Beaker_Southern_France_I3874 |
0.06276071 | BEAKERS-CENTRAL-EUROPEAN:Beaker_Central_Europe_I4945 |
0.06366065 | BEAKERS-CENTRAL-EUROPEAN:Beaker_Central_Europe_I0113 |
0.06506361 | BEAKERS-CENTRAL-EUROPEAN:Beaker_Central_Europe_I6624 |
0.06615359 | BEAKERS-CENTRAL-EUROPEAN:Beaker_Central_Europe_I6582 |
0.06678927 | BEAKERS-CENTRAL-EUROPEAN:Beaker_Central_Europe_I4886 |
0.06727492 | BEAKERS-CENTRAL-EUROPEAN:Beaker_Central_Europe_I5835 |
Ancient Romans
Distance to: | Jovialis |
---|---|
3.02061252 | R973_Medieval_Era_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti |
3.28542235 | R835_Imperial_Era_Civitanova_Marche |
3.34644588 | R54_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna |
3.41667967 | CrusaderKnightApuliaAbruzzoLebanonCrusaderSI53 |
3.43008746 | R121_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia |
3.70737104 | R836_Imperial_Era_Civitanova_Marche |
3.83489244 | R970_Medieval_Era_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti |
3.85554147 | CL121 |
4.06829202 | R60_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna |
4.18988067 | R969_Medieval_Era_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti |
4.49402937 | R1290_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna |
4.91924791 | R122_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia |
4.94132573 | R49_Imperial_Era_Centocelle_Necropolis |
4.96690044 | R64_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna |
5.28137293 | R56_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna |
5.77595879 | R117_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia |
6.07903775 | R131_Imperial_Era_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis |
6.10611169 | R52_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna |
6.12550406 | R113_Imperial_Era_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis |
6.31027733 | R35_Late_Antiquity_Celio |
6.31831465 | R59_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna |
6.32038765 | R47_Imperial_Era_Centocelle_Necropolis |
6.33613447 | R65_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna |
6.55681325 | R1544_Imperial_Era_Necropolis_of_Monte_Agnese |
6.83668048 | R58_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna |
6.91828013 | R107_Late_Antiquity_Crypta_Balbi |
6.94813644 | R136_Imperial_Era_Marcellino_&_Pietro |
6.96840728 | R436_Imperial_Era_Palestrina |
7.00001429 | SZ40 |
7.03068275 | R1549_Imperial_Era_Monterotondo |
7.06252788 | R36_Late_Antiquity_Celio |
7.16297424 | ScythianSouthernMoldova_scy192 |
7.22136414 | R1283_Medieval_Era_Cancelleria |
7.24803422 | R120_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia |
7.36417001 | R53_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna |
7.53431483 | R118_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia |
7.54746315 | R437_Iron_Age_Palestrina_Selicata |
7.63191981 | CL110 |
7.92152132 | R32_Late_Antiquity_Mausole_di_Augusto |
7.96730820 | SZ36 |
There is no doubt that the North Dutch are very close genetically to the Danes, while the South Dutch are close to the Belgians. That's common knowledge in population genetics. But that is not at all what I am referring to. I was talking about the origin of the Germanic component found among Belgians (and South Dutch). There is ample evidence that the Franks originated in Denmark. But they did not arrive in Belgium in a pure, unadmixed form. They mixed with West Germans tribes (including Saxons) along the way. So much is evident from the deep clades of Y-DNA haplogroups found in Belgium. About half of the Germanic Y-DNA appears Scandinavian (such as I1-L22 or R1b-Z9). I explained all this in my genetic history of the Benelux several years ago.
It's obvious that when a population like the Belgians is only 25% of Danish origin they are not going to look like pure Danes (or North Dutch) in autosomal comparisons.
You are using Vahaduo to calculate genetic distance based on a calculator's coordinates (percentages of admixtures). I was referring to actual genomic comparisons, comparing the genetic distance using hundreds of thousands or millions of SNP's. That is not comparable at all. You can get a GD of less than 0.1 using the former (admixture percentages like K12b) even with someone unrelated, but the only way you could get such a close distance with SNPs is with a close blood relative. The two are like comparing apples and oranges.
the Belgians is only 25% of Danish origin
Celtiberian
Dodecad K12b Ancient (Jovialis & Duarte) with samples from the Paleolithic up until the Iron Age.
This is actually very illuminating to me...
Yes, I consider a GD of 7 to be a close match. Among my family members the GD for the same samples can vary by several points. My (paternal) grandmother scores a GD of 2 for Franks, but my mother only 9.5. Yet both have all their genealogical ancestry from the same province of Belgium. Look at your own results. You've got a Saxon sample dated from year 720 with a GD of 5 and another Saxon from 780 with a GD of 7.5. And these are just your top matches. There are considerable variations in GD between individuals of the same ancient ethnic group. And we only have have a few samples from each ethnic group, among millions of people who lived in ancient times. So further sampling will inevitably improve everyone's score for genetic distance to single individuals. My closest match is also a Frank from Hungary, but that's because none have been tested from Belgium, the homeland of the Franks. I do not doubt that I will score closer to these, as they are my direct ancestors.
you and your ancestor are obviously related to the Leader of the Free World. Congrats
... some of my ancestors:
Yep, Salento. Gemini separated in the maternityyou and your ancestor are obviously related to the Leader of the Free World. Congrats
... some of my ancestors:
imho:Very basic question: the word "ancient" in the title of the post, how long in the past does it refer to?
This thread has been viewed 299892 times.