Genetic and Cultural Differences between Jews and Greeks

[Ygorcs]

Ygorcs can you run R850? ������
Like you run those imperial .... ������
Can you use natufian instead levant megido?

Those models above do not have samples chosen by me. It's just an experiment using ALL ancient DNA samples prior or contemporary to those Imperial Roman samples in the 1st model (lsamples excepted), and ALL the modern DNA samles in the 2nd one. This is done to identify the closest affinities no matter if they are actual, realistic sources or not.

R850 looks like a South Italian or, I think more likely, the descendant of a Greek or Greek-like person with a local Ardea or more broadly Central Italian inhabitant. I'm going to try to model it to post here.

 

[Ygorcs]

Guys, unfortunately as Angela points out we lack definitely South Italian DNA samples extracted from burials in the region, and Iron Age Sicilian DNA samples, but I think we can at least make a good informed guesswork based on some of the Imperial Rome samples that do appear very much to be people of South Italian origin or even South Italian migrants themselves. If they are indeed South Italians and/or Sicilians, then we could conclude that whatever significant changes had occurred between the BA and the late pre-Christian Era had already taken place and consolidated in admixed form by the time of the Roman Empire. Some minor changes took place later, of course, but not any decisive ones to cause South Italians and Sicilians plot where they do now.

So, as I was saying, if those Italian-like samples from Imperial Rome are indeed South Italians or maybe South Italian-shifted Central Italians, then we can be fairly certain that whatever happened to form the overwhelming majority of the present-day South Italian gene pool was already fully formed by the time of Imperial Rome, including the quite higher Levant_N affinity.

See this datasheet comparing an ancestry model for the aforementioned Imperial Rome samples with the same model applied to South Italians. Not much difference to say the least. So, later post-Roman Empire migrations into South Italy were probably minor and, even if they were somewhat larger than the data indicate, they "evened out" each other because of both "northern" and "southern" gene flow, so that things remained pretty much the same.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1eeq1a66KzjLw_cubhb0HOyI-K2RJCd8MBJMa-qGPsyo/edit?usp=sharing

 

[Angela]

Why do you assume that the Southern Italians in the late Bronze or Iron Age didn't already possess this ancestry?

 

[Ygorcs]

Another example of G25 getting it wrong is the Ashkelon_Levant_IronAge1 component. Only one sample, ASH068, is a true Philistine, who is indeed Mycenean-like. ASH067 is half-Philistine/half-Levant_BA. The others are Levant_BA natives to the Levant. How does throwing them in all together make sense, and what could it possibly tell you? That is superficial and plain wrong, for genetic analysis. Doing so completely ignores the archeological and social context of the samples being used.

About Philistines I don't agree. Philistines were not simply Greeks/Aegeans, they were a specific society and culture that appeared in the Southern Levant from a mixture of Greek/Aegean immigrants with local Levantines. I don't think equating 100% Greek = true Philistinees is a corrrect description of what the majority of the Philistines must've been like genetically and even culturally. This is a bit like saying only 100% Anglo-Saxon/Northwestern European-Americans are "true Yankees", all the rest do not belong to the same ethnic and sociocultural population.

 

[Ygorcs]

Why do you assume that the Southern Italians in the late Bronze or Iron Age didn't already possess this ancestry?

Actually that's precisely what I am assuming: a change roughly between the MLBA and the later IA (that's considering the Sicily Beakers and the Sicily_EBA, MBA and LBA samples), which probably involved several distinct admixture events accumulating over time, not just one.

 

[Duarte]

Guys, unfortunately as Angela points out we lack definitely South Italian DNA samples extracted from burials in the region, and Iron Age Sicilian DNA samples, but I think we can at least make a good informed guesswork based on some of the Imperial Rome samples that do appear very much to be people of South Italian origin or even South Italian migrants themselves. If they are indeed South Italians and/or Sicilians, then we could conclude that whatever significant changes had occurred between the BA and the late pre-Christian Era had already taken place and consolidated in admixed form by the time of the Roman Empire. Some minor changes took place later, of course, but not any decisive ones to cause South Italians and Sicilians plot where they do now.

I'm talking of aDNA samples from Imperial Rome like these:

[TABLE="width: 1046"]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: left"]Target: ITA_Rome_Imperial:RMPR51[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: left"]Target: ITA_Rome_Imperial:RMPR51[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Distance to:[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]ITA_Rome_Imperial:RMPR51[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: left"]Distance: 1.9058% / 0.01905820 | ADC: 0.5x[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: left"]Distance: 2.2787% / 0.02278743 | ADC: 1x[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]0.02857469[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Italian_Campania:NaN65DFG[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]38.6[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]35.2[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Greek_Kos[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]0.02878325[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Greek_Kos:GreeceKos7[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]16.2[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]ARM_Areni_C[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]27.0[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Italian_Apulia[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]0.03066587[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Italian_Apuliau3[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]11.0[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Scythian_MDA[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]26.2[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Italian_Campania[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]0.03169235[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Italian_Campania:NaN46TC[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]10.8[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]TUR_Alalakh_MLBA[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]11.6[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Italian_Abruzzo[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]0.03240783[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Italian_Abruzzo:Alp503[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]10.2[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]HRV_EBA[/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"]0.03246063[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Italian_Abruzzo:ItalyAbruzzo14[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]7.2[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]ITA_Sardinia_Punic[/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"]0.03296894[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Italian_Apuliau7[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]6.0[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Levant_Megiddo_MLBA[/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"]0.03304690[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Sicilian_East:EastSicilian5H[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"]0.03346061[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Ashkenazi_Germany:Ashk_DE_DE_4[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"]0.03370560[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Greek_Crete:Crete7[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"]0.03371031[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Maltese:Malta15AM91[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"]0.03418027[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Italian_Campania:NaN212CR[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"]0.03431155[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Greek_Kos:GreeceKos1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"]0.03431171[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Italian_Apulia:GS34[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"]0.03437454[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Sicilian_East:EastSicilian2H[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="width: 1424"]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: left"]Target: ITA_Rome_Imperial:RMPR47[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: left"]Target: ITA_Rome_Imperial:RMPR47[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Distance to:[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]ITA_Rome_Imperial:RMPR47[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]ITALIAN[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: left"]Distance: 1.5437% / 0.01543748 | ADC: 0.5x[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: left"]Distance: 1.4979% / 0.01497893 | ADC: 1x[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]0.02316833[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Italian_BasilicataG25[/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]38.2[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]ITA_Sardinia_Late_Antiquity[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]65.4[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Italian_Campania[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]0.02407205[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Italian_Campania:CMP_b001_2[/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]13.0[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Scythian_MDA[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]22.6[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Italian_Basilicata[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]0.02455592[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Italian_Campania:ITS4[/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]12.0[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]ARM_Areni_C[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]12.0[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Italian_Abruzzo[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]0.02457903[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Italian_Campania:NaN207MM[/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]11.6[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]HRV_EBA[/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"]0.02467801[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Italian_Campania:NaN275IS[/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]7.6[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]TUR_Barcin_C[/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"]0.02476549[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Italian_Abruzzo:Alp380[/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]4.8[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Iberia_Ibiza_Punic[/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"]0.02502529[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Italian_Campania:CMP_b004_2[/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]4.2[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]TUR_Isparta_EBA[/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"]0.02533783[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Italian_Apulia:GS32[/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]3.6[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Bell_Beaker_HUN_EBA[/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"]0.02630855[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Italian_Calabria:ALP596[/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]2.6[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]TUR_Alalakh_MLBA[/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"]0.02667613[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Italian_Abruzzo:ALP205[/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]2.4[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Iberia_Southeast_c.3-4CE[/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"]0.02688689[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Italian_Apulia:cera8[/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"]0.02695925[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Italian_BasilicataG16[/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"]0.02731715[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Italian_Campania:NaN43TC[/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"]0.02759083[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Italian_BasilicataG18[/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"]0.02767972[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_10[/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="width: 1046"]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: left"]Target: ITA_Rome_Imperial:RMPR836[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: left"]Target: ITA_Rome_Imperial:RMPR836[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Distance to:[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]ITA_Rome_Imperial:RMPR836[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: left"]Distance: 2.5053% / 0.02505265 | ADC: 0.5x[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: left"]Distance: 2.6369% / 0.02636937 | ADC: 1x[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]0.02865457[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Greek_Izmir:GreeceSmyrna30[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]27.0[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Scythian_MDA[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]64.4[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Greek_Izmir[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]0.03152810[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Italian_Campania:NaN238DM[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]23.6[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]TUR_Ovaoren_EBA[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]35.6[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Italian_Abruzzo[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]0.03173231[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Italian_Abruzzo:Alp503[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]18.8[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]BGR_IA[/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"]0.03191599[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Italian_Apuliau7[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]13.8[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]HRV_EBA[/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"]0.03196929[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Italian_Abruzzo:ALP205[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]7.4[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]ARM_Areni_C[/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"]0.03211102[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Italian_BasilicataG22[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]3.6[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]TUR_Isparta_EBA[/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"]0.03325512[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Italian_Campania:NaN128LA[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]3.2[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Levant_Ashkelon_IA1[/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"]0.03418200[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Italian_Abruzzo:ItalyAbruzzo22[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]2.6[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]TUR_IA_low_res[/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"]0.03454272[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Italian_Abruzzo:Alp162[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"]0.03460323[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Italian_UmbriaG06[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"]0.03462561[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Italian_Apuliau2[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"]0.03491981[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Italian_Apulia:ALP583[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"]0.03523100[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Italian_MoliseG26[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"]0.03527997[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Italian_BasilicataG17[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"]0.03552152[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Italian_Lazio:NOR28[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="width: 1424"]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: left"]Target: ITA_Rome_Imperial:RMPR49[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: left"]Target: ITA_Rome_Imperial:RMPR49[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Distance to:[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]ITA_Rome_Imperial:RMPR49[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]ITALIAN[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: left"]Distance: 1.6720% / 0.01672012 | ADC: 0.5x[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: left"]Distance: 1.4426% / 0.01442636 | ADC: 1x[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]0.01973934[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Greek_Izmir:GreeceSmyrna30[/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]22.0[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]HRV_EBA[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]42.6[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Greek_Izmir[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]0.02054434[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Italian_MoliseG26[/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]19.6[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]BGR_IA[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]37.0[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Italian_Apulia[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]0.02093170[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Italian_Apulia:GS32[/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]17.2[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]TUR_Camlibel_Tarlasi_LC[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]17.4[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Italian_Molise[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]0.02142284[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Italian_Apulia:cera8[/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]14.0[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Scythian_MDA[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]1.8[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Italian_Campania[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]0.02204828[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Italian_Campania:NaN238DM[/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]9.8[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]ITA_Sardinia_Late_Antiquity[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]1.2[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Italian_Abruzzo[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]0.02324557[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Italian_Abruzzo:ALP205[/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]5.4[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]ARM_Areni_C[/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"]0.02375489[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Italian_BasilicataG20[/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]5.0[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Bell_Beaker_HUN_EBA[/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"]0.02426240[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Italian_Apulia:cera9[/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]4.0[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA_low_res[/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"]0.02437365[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Italian_Calabria:ALP596[/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]2.2[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]TUR_Ikiztepe_LC[/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"]0.02474923[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Italian_Lazio:NOR28[/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]0.8[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Iberia_Ibiza_Punic[/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"]0.02498351[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Italian_Abruzzo:ItalyAbruzzo15[/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"]0.02499196[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Sicilian_East:EastSicilian2H[/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"]0.02518214[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Greek_Crete:Crete8[/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"]0.02545031[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Italian_BasilicataG16[/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"]0.02570912[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Italian_Apuliau3[/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

@Ygorcs
"Show," Ygor. I use this word in the same sense that the natives of Belo Horizonte use to congratulate someone for a job well done. "Show". Understand this as "Congratulations on your work." But for my countrymen it has a greater symbolic value than that expressed by the simple word "congratulations .." Show ". It is a corruption of the phrase: “You gave a show”. Very good job.

@Regio X. Congratulations. Very good job

Congratulations both

 

[Ygorcs]

R850 looks like a South Italian or, I think more likely, the descendant of a Greek or Greek-like person with a local Ardea or more broadly Central Italian inhabitant. I'm going to try to model it to post here.

Sorry, I was mistaking R850 for another Central Italian outlier. R850 can't be modelled as a Ardea_Latini + Empuries_2 (Greek-like), so my bad.

[TH="class: singleheader, colspan: 2, align: left"]Target: ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA_o:RMPR850
Distance: 5.4927% / 0.05492669

[/TH]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]95.2[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]4.8[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA[/TD]

Using most aDNA samples I get this:

[TH="class: singleheader, colspan: 2, align: left"]Target: ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA_o:RMPR850
Distance: 2.3041% / 0.02304063 | ADC: 0.5x

[/TH]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]32.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA_low_res[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]27.2[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]ITA_Rome_MA[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]22.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]10.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]ITA_Sardinia_Punic[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]4.2[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]SYR_Ebla_EMBA[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]3.2[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Levant_Beirut_IAIII[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]0.8[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]TUR_Alalakh_MLBA[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]0.6[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]ARM_Areni_C[/TD]

Looks basically Sicilian/South Italian but shifted away from the average towards the Levant and North Africa, so that individual may have been a South Italian or South Italian-shifted Central Italian individual who had had some recent East Mediterranean ancestors.

[TH="class: singleheader, colspan: 2, align: left"]Target: ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA_o:RMPR850
Distance: 2.4684% / 0.02468351 | ADC: 0.5x

[/TH]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]26.6[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Romaniote_Jew[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]16.8[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Ashkenazi_Lithuania[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]14.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Italian_Abruzzo[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]10.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Italian_Jew[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]9.4[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Greek_Kos[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]8.8[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Greek_Crete[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]7.8[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Italian_Campania[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]6.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Sephardic_Jew[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]0.6[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Sicilian_East[/TD]

[TH="class: singleheader, colspan: 2, align: left"]Target: ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA_o:RMPR850
Distance: 3.2132% / 0.03213217 | ADC: 0.25x

[/TH]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]52.4[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]TUR_Barcin_N[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]17.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Levant_PPNB[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]12.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]GEO_CHG[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]12.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]RUS_Khvalynsk_En[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]6.6[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]0.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]LUX_Loschbour[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]0.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]MAR_EN[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]0.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]RUS_Karelia_HG[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]0.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]WHG[/TD]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA_o:RMPR850[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #B3FF00, align: right"]0.03500709[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Imperial:RMPR1543[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #C0FF00, align: right"]0.03772854[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Imperial:RMPR114[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #C3FF00, align: right"]0.03822370[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Imperial:RMPR50[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #C7FF00, align: right"]0.03911010[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Imperial:RMPR51[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #C8FF00, align: right"]0.03916029[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Collegno_MA_o1:CL30[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #C9FF00, align: right"]0.03943211[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_MA:RMPR53[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #D1FF00, align: right"]0.04104719[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity:RMPR122[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #D2FF00, align: right"]0.04117835[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity:RMPR34[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #D4FF00, align: right"]0.04150786[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity:RMPR30[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #D8FF00, align: right"]0.04227926[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_MA:RMPR64[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #DAFF00, align: right"]0.04271799[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_MA:RMPR56[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #DBFF00, align: right"]0.04286452[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity:RMPR136[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #DBFF00, align: right"]0.04288585[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Imperial:RMPR78[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #DFFF00, align: right"]0.04365429[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Imperial:RMPR39[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #DFFF00, align: right"]0.04371049[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Collegno_MA_o1:CL25[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E0FF00, align: right"]0.04387678[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Imperial:RMPR1544[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E0FF00, align: right"]0.04398916[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Imperial:RMPR115[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E1FF00, align: right"]0.04419615[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity:RMPR134[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E2FF00, align: right"]0.04422040[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity:RMPR35[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E6FF00, align: right"]0.04507299[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Imperial:RMPR45

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[Leopoldo Leone]

So, as I was saying, if those Italian-like samples from Imperial Rome are indeed South Italians or maybe South Italian-shifted Central Italians, then we can be fairly certain that whatever happened to form the overwhelming majority of the present-day South Italian gene pool was already fully formed by the time of Imperial Rome, including the quite higher Levant_N affinity.

See this datasheet comparing an ancestry model for the aforementioned Imperial Rome samples with the same model applied to South Italians. Not much difference to say the least. So, later post-Roman Empire migrations into South Italy were probably minor and, even if they were somewhat larger than the data indicate, they "evened out" each other because of both "northern" and "southern" gene flow, so that things remained pretty much the same.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1eeq1a66KzjLw_cubhb0HOyI-K2RJCd8MBJMa-qGPsyo/edit?usp=sharing

"quite higher Levant_N affinity" compared to what? I think that one of the point we can all agree is that G25 quite overblows the Levant_N admixture if Barcin_N is used instead of Tepecik, and we also have reasons ( as Angela has said) that the Anatolian that migrated to Europe ( to south east Europe at least) were Tepecik-like. Otherwise, reading the valu at face value, we are inclined to search for a massive migration from somewhere around the Levant (if from north Levant, it must have been around 20% to give an extra 10% levant neolithic, more closer to 10% the more south you go, still I doubt such an even took place, and I also wonder why there's no significant encrease of Iran_neolithic and also the Steppe admixture levels seem a bit too high).
Also I am not sure we can deduce anything statistically valuable from so few samples ( six for Sicily, for example), but as long as we take it as "indications" let's work with what there is.
Why don't you try to use ABA, Myceneans, Italic and Tepecik to model south Italians? ( supposing that there was a substrate of tepecik-like farmers, who experienced admixtures with ABA-like invaders and then Italic, and Myceneans as a proxy for ancient Greeks)

 

[Jack Johnson]

How exactly do you measure culture by numbers and facts? I guess if you were trying to statistically show the incongruousness of the cultural beliefs of the West versus the Middle East and Africa, one could look at a Pew study entitled “The Global Divide on Homosexuality Persists.” In that study the following was found: “in sub-Saharan Africa, the Middle East, Russia and Ukraine, few say that society should accept homosexuality; only in South Africa (54%) and Israel (47%) do more than a quarter hold this view.” In another Pew study “Muslims and Islam: Key findings in the U.S. and around the world study,” it was found that most Muslims in Afghanistan (99%), Iraq (91%), and Pakistan (84%) support sharia law as official law. These things are incongruous to Western society currently, and the migration of many from these parts of the world to places that are mostly Christian and Liberal such as the UK, France, Germany or Sweden, is bound to have an effect on the culture of those said nations. There is also a correlation to these events and a rise in antisemitism, which is a common sentiment in Islamic populations. What makes you think culture and ethnicity aren’t related? You think that differing groups of people don’t produce unique interpretations of their surrounding environments? The East Germanic tribes of the migration period had their own interpretations of Latin/Roman cultural ideas. The same holds true for the various interpretations of Christianity throughout Europe. Further more, the differing interpretations of Abrahamic religions throughout the world show this to be true, a West African Christian church is going to be very different than one in Croatia, Mexico or Italy. Why is this a zero sum game and it is one or the other? How do you know that certain characteristics in populations aren’t selected for and thus result in certain interpretations? You can’t just discount the effect biology has on these things, but I will concede it is most likely, that the biological aspect is partly a product of environmental adaptation. Ethnicity is intertwined with culture most of the time, though this is not always the case 100% of the time. Most Jewish populations around the world for example, share ancestry from a migration event out of the Middle East sometime over 2000 years ago. Of course you have Sudanese Jews who have limited Semitic admixture. Being a certain ethnic group means having a certain history or link to said ethnic groups history and land, with their culture being mostly a byproduct of the aforementioned. Side note, I should have been more descriptive than Middle Eastern, instead I should have used Arabic, Berber, Turkic, Kurdish or Persian when describing these large ethnic groups of MENA. Would you argue that if “Europeaness” doesn’t exist, does Western Civilization or the West as a concept exist? Is there not a closer relationship between the peoples of say Germany and Italy or France and Italy, than say Lebanon and Italy? To conclude I am actually not sure if I’m in disagreement with you or not. I am not sure what the main point of your argument is. It would be somewhat more helpful if we could state our original disagreements with one another. I will state this, that this is not black and white, you could state the case of Albanians and Serbs, both groups are genetically close though one is Orthodox Christian and the other Muslim. Differing regions and by proxy, culture to some extent, though they share a common ancestry and history. Granted most Albanians are not as strict when it comes to Islam than other Islamic nations such as Pakistan or Saudi Arabia.

 

[Ygorcs]

"quite higher Levant_N affinity" compared to what?

Hmm, compared to earlier Neolithic and BA samples in the same region or its vicinity. Should I really have to explain that?

I think that one of the point we can all agree is that G25 quite overblows the Levant_N admixture if Barcin_N is used instead of Tepecik, and we also have reasons ( as Angela has said) that the Anatolian that migrated to Europe ( to south east Europe at least) were Tepecik-like. Otherwise, reading the valu at face value, we are inclined to search for a massive migration from somewhere around the Levant (if from north Levant, it must have been around 20% to give an extra 10% levant neolithic, more closer to 10% the more south you go, still I doubt such an even took place, and I also wonder why there's no significant encrease of Iran_neolithic and also the Steppe admixture levels seem a bit too high).
Also I am not sure we can deduce anything statistically valuable from so few samples ( six for Sicily, for example), but as long as we take it as "indications" let's work with what there is.
Why don't you try to use ABA, Myceneans, Italic and Tepecik to model south Italians? ( supposing that there was a substrate of tepecik-like farmers, who experienced admixtures with ABA-like invaders and then Italic, and Myceneans as a proxy for ancient Greeks)

Considering that Tepecik-Ciftlik was the most admixed Anatolia_N sample, while Barcin_N looks like the least admixed of them all, Tepecik-Ciftlik is not the best sample to properly differentiate the most basal post-Epipaleolithic West Eurasian admixtures in any modern or ancient but not so ancient population. It will always "eat" and hide any minor Levant_N and CHG or Iran_N admixture that may be present. Also, if South Italians are best modelled as mostly Tepecik-Ciftlik while most other Europeans are instead best modelled as mostly or even entirely Barcin_N, that automatically means that South Italians have more Levantine and Caucasian/Iranian affinities. Have you missed some posts above in which Lazaridis et al. in 2017 modelled Anatolia_BA, which is so close to South Italians, as ~9.5%¨Natufian and ~17% Levant_BA? There you have it: more Tepecik-Ciftlik affintiy than Barcin affinity already means quite higher Levantine-like admixture via Natufian or Levant_PPNB flow, too. The main conclusions will not change because of that, I'm afraid.

I have already posted models using Tepecik-Ciftlik before in this thread. Check them. Tepecik-Ciftlik is not the preferred Anatolia_N source for virtually no sample north of Central Italy, and almost the entire rest of Europe also picks Barcin_N over Tepecik-Ciftlik. Also, if the higher Levant_N and CHG/Iran_N came mostly via Tepecik-Ciftlik Neolithic Anatolians, then the implications are much more serious: instead of a relatively minor gene flow from Levant_N and CHG/Iran_N-rich populations, there was a massive genetic shift from Barcin_N-majority EEF to Tepecik Ciftlik_N-majority EEF between the Neolithic and the Iron Age. What scenario do you think is most likely?

 

[kingdavid]

Sorry, I was mistaking R850 for another Central Italian outlier. R850 can't be modelled as a Ardea_Latini + Empuries_2 (Greek-like), so my bad.

[TH="class: singleheader, colspan: 2, align: left"]Target: ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA_o:RMPR850
Distance: 5.4927% / 0.05492669

[/TH]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]95.2[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]4.8[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA[/TD]

Using most aDNA samples I get this:

[TH="class: singleheader, colspan: 2, align: left"]Target: ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA_o:RMPR850
Distance: 2.3041% / 0.02304063 | ADC: 0.5x

[/TH]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]32.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA_low_res[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]27.2[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]ITA_Rome_MA[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]22.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]10.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]ITA_Sardinia_Punic[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]4.2[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]SYR_Ebla_EMBA[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]3.2[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Levant_Beirut_IAIII[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]0.8[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]TUR_Alalakh_MLBA[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]0.6[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]ARM_Areni_C[/TD]

Looks basically Sicilian/South Italian but shifted away from the average towards the Levant and North Africa, so that individual may have been a South Italian or South Italian-shifted Central Italian individual who had had some recent East Mediterranean ancestors.

[TH="class: singleheader, colspan: 2, align: left"]Target: ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA_o:RMPR850
Distance: 2.4684% / 0.02468351 | ADC: 0.5x

[/TH]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]26.6[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Romaniote_Jew[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]16.8[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Ashkenazi_Lithuania[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]14.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Italian_Abruzzo[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]10.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Italian_Jew[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]9.4[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Greek_Kos[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]8.8[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Greek_Crete[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]7.8[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Italian_Campania[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]6.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Sephardic_Jew[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]0.6[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Sicilian_East[/TD]

[TH="class: singleheader, colspan: 2, align: left"]Target: ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA_o:RMPR850
Distance: 3.2132% / 0.03213217 | ADC: 0.25x

[/TH]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]52.4[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]TUR_Barcin_N[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]17.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Levant_PPNB[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]12.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]GEO_CHG[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]12.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]RUS_Khvalynsk_En[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]6.6[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]0.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]LUX_Loschbour[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]0.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]MAR_EN[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]0.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]RUS_Karelia_HG[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]0.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]WHG[/TD]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA_o:RMPR850[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #B3FF00, align: right"]0.03500709[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Imperial:RMPR1543[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #C0FF00, align: right"]0.03772854[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Imperial:RMPR114[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #C3FF00, align: right"]0.03822370[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Imperial:RMPR50[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #C7FF00, align: right"]0.03911010[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Imperial:RMPR51[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #C8FF00, align: right"]0.03916029[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Collegno_MA_o1:CL30[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #C9FF00, align: right"]0.03943211[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_MA:RMPR53[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #D1FF00, align: right"]0.04104719[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity:RMPR122[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #D2FF00, align: right"]0.04117835[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity:RMPR34[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #D4FF00, align: right"]0.04150786[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity:RMPR30[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #D8FF00, align: right"]0.04227926[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_MA:RMPR64[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #DAFF00, align: right"]0.04271799[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_MA:RMPR56[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #DBFF00, align: right"]0.04286452[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity:RMPR136[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #DBFF00, align: right"]0.04288585[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Imperial:RMPR78[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #DFFF00, align: right"]0.04365429[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Imperial:RMPR39[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #DFFF00, align: right"]0.04371049[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Collegno_MA_o1:CL25[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E0FF00, align: right"]0.04387678[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Imperial:RMPR1544[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E0FF00, align: right"]0.04398916[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Imperial:RMPR115[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E1FF00, align: right"]0.04419615[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity:RMPR134[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E2FF00, align: right"]0.04422040[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity:RMPR35[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E6FF00, align: right"]0.04507299[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Imperial:RMPR45

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Cool 17% levant ppnb:cool-v:

 

[Leopoldo Leone]

Sorry, I was mistaking R850 for another Central Italian outlier. R850 can't be modelled as a Ardea_Latini + Empuries_2 (Greek-like), so my bad.

[TH="class: singleheader, colspan: 2, align: left"]Target: ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA_o:RMPR850
Distance: 5.4927% / 0.05492669[/TH]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]95.2[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]4.8[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA[/TD]

Using most aDNA samples I get this:

[TH="class: singleheader, colspan: 2, align: left"]Target: ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA_o:RMPR850
Distance: 2.3041% / 0.02304063 | ADC: 0.5x[/TH]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]32.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA_low_res[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]27.2[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]ITA_Rome_MA[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]22.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]10.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]ITA_Sardinia_Punic[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]4.2[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]SYR_Ebla_EMBA[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]3.2[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Levant_Beirut_IAIII[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]0.8[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]TUR_Alalakh_MLBA[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]0.6[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]ARM_Areni_C[/TD]

Looks basically Sicilian/South Italian but shifted away from the average towards the Levant and North Africa, so that individual may have been a South Italian or South Italian-shifted Central Italian individual who had had some recent East Mediterranean ancestors.

[TH="class: singleheader, colspan: 2, align: left"]Target: ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA_o:RMPR850
Distance: 2.4684% / 0.02468351 | ADC: 0.5x[/TH]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]26.6[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Romaniote_Jew[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]16.8[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Ashkenazi_Lithuania[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]14.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Italian_Abruzzo[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]10.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Italian_Jew[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]9.4[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Greek_Kos[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]8.8[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Greek_Crete[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]7.8[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Italian_Campania[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]6.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Sephardic_Jew[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]0.6[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Sicilian_East[/TD]

[TH="class: singleheader, colspan: 2, align: left"]Target: ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA_o:RMPR850
Distance: 3.2132% / 0.03213217 | ADC: 0.25x[/TH]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]52.4[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]TUR_Barcin_N[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]17.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Levant_PPNB[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]12.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]GEO_CHG[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]12.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]RUS_Khvalynsk_En[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]6.6[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]0.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]LUX_Loschbour[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]0.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]MAR_EN[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]0.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]RUS_Karelia_HG[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]0.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]WHG[/TD]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA_o:RMPR850[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #B3FF00, align: right"]0.03500709[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Imperial:RMPR1543[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #C0FF00, align: right"]0.03772854[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Imperial:RMPR114[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #C3FF00, align: right"]0.03822370[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Imperial:RMPR50[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #C7FF00, align: right"]0.03911010[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Imperial:RMPR51[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #C8FF00, align: right"]0.03916029[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Collegno_MA_o1:CL30[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #C9FF00, align: right"]0.03943211[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_MA:RMPR53[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #D1FF00, align: right"]0.04104719[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity:RMPR122[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #D2FF00, align: right"]0.04117835[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity:RMPR34[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #D4FF00, align: right"]0.04150786[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity:RMPR30[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #D8FF00, align: right"]0.04227926[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_MA:RMPR64[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #DAFF00, align: right"]0.04271799[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_MA:RMPR56[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #DBFF00, align: right"]0.04286452[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity:RMPR136[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #DBFF00, align: right"]0.04288585[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Imperial:RMPR78[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #DFFF00, align: right"]0.04365429[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Imperial:RMPR39[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #DFFF00, align: right"]0.04371049[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Collegno_MA_o1:CL25[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E0FF00, align: right"]0.04387678[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Imperial:RMPR1544[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E0FF00, align: right"]0.04398916[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Imperial:RMPR115[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E1FF00, align: right"]0.04419615[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity:RMPR134[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E2FF00, align: right"]0.04422040[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity:RMPR35[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E6FF00, align: right"]0.04507299[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Imperial:RMPR45[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

These runs seem to support the idea that the substrate was "minoan/anatolian" like, or at least there were significant levels of CHG/iran_neolithic in central and south Italy.

Looks basically Sicilian/South Italian but shifted away from the average towards the Levant and North Africa, so that individual may have been a South Italian or South Italian-shifted Central Italian individual who had had some recent East Mediterranean ancestors.

1) question: what the heck is "east med"? There's no "east med", because the first and more significant genetic division between the mediterranean population is between "south" and "north" mediterranean, and even if the difference between "north east" and "south east" is not as big as "north west" and "south west", you can't lump together "palestine" with "anatolian". (north Levant seems half way between south Levant and Anatolia, but still the two are distinct)
2) Frankly you are wrong: taking every PCA, south Italian appear northwest shifted compared to north Italians (because usually in a PCA ANE is placed north and CHG is placed towards the northwest corner), and northwest shifted compared to the EEFs, or they appear more "euro-shifted" compared to Minoans ( who also appear as northwest shifted EEF);that's why I have brought up the distinction between south and north med, because your lumping together North Africa with the Levant makes it clear that you interpret south Italians as southeast shifted compared to central and north Italians, when actually they are northwest shifted.

 

[Jovialis]

About Philistines I don't agree. Philistines were not simply Greeks/Aegeans, they were a specific society and culture that appeared in the Southern Levant from a mixture of Greek/Aegean immigrants with local Levantines. I don't think equating 100% Greek = true Philistinees is a corrrect description of what the majority of the Philistines must've been like genetically and even culturally. This is a bit like saying only 100% Anglo-Saxon/Northwestern European-Americans are "true Yankees", all the rest do not belong to the same ethnic and sociocultural population.

You would never know they came from Greek origins, unless you look at the samples individually. That's how it is determined they came from Crete. So I have to disagree.

Why is it so imperative to try to find precisely how much levantine are in populations? Yet, with other instances, completely divergent samples should be lumped together. Seems kind of odd to me.

 

[Jovialis]

Cool 17% levant ppnb:cool-v:

Don't get your hopes up, because the modeling in the study doesn't suggest that.

 

[kingdavid]

Don't get your hopes up, because the modeling in the study doesn't suggest that.

I know they say in the study that r850
Cluster sith anatolia chl
So thd g25 values of davidski is garbage...
So why everyone buy it

 

[Leopoldo Leone]

Hmm, compared to earlier Neolithic and BA samples in the same region or its vicinity. Should I really have to explain that?



Considering that Tepecik-Ciftlik was the most admixed Anatolia_N sample, while Barcin_N looks like the least admixed of them all, Tepecik-Ciftlik is not the best sample to properly differentiate the most basal post-Epipaleolithic West Eurasian admixtures in any modern or ancient but not so ancient population. It will always "eat" and hide any minor Levant_N and CHG or Iran_N admixture that may be present. Also, if South Italians are best modelled as mostly Tepecik-Ciftlik while most other Europeans are instead best modelled as mostly or even entirely Barcin_N, that automatically means that South Italians have more Levantine and Caucasian/Iranian affinities. Have you missed some posts above in which Lazaridis et al. in 2017 modelled Anatolia_BA, which is so close to South Italians, as ~9.5%¨Natufian and ~17% Levant_BA? There you have it: more Tepecik-Ciftlik affintiy than Barcin affinity already means quite higher Levantine-like admixture via Natufian or Levant_PPNB flow, too. The main conclusions will not change because of that, I'm afraid.

I have already posted models using Tepecik-Ciftlik before in this thread. Check them. Tepecik-Ciftlik is not the preferred Anatolia_N source for virtually no sample north of Central Italy, and almost the entire rest of Europe also picks Barcin_N over Tepecik-Ciftlik. Also, if the higher Levant_N and CHG/Iran_N came mostly via Tepecik-Ciftlik Neolithic Anatolians, then the implications are much more serious: instead of a relatively minor gene flow from Levant_N and CHG/Iran_N-rich populations, there was a massive genetic shift from Barcin_N-majority EEF to Tepecik Ciftlik_N-majority EEF between the Neolithic and the Iron Age. What scenario do you think is most likely?

The point is not to say that south Italians and south east Europeans in general haven't (for they have) higher affinities with the Levant, but it is not to postulate a new migration, a new donor that no genetist has yet found or felt the need to postulate, because, as it has been argued, we have no evidence of it and the vast majority of the literature hasn't even spoken or hinted at such an event. Also, the model of two migrations from Anatolia ( a "northwest route" and a "southwest" route) has already been suggested, it has some merits, and there are studies ( as kilinc ) that show that at least the EEF in Italy had higher affinities with tepecik.

 

[Duarte]

Sorry, I was mistaking R850 for another Central Italian outlier. R850 can't be modelled as a Ardea_Latini + Empuries_2 (Greek-like), so my bad.

[TH="class: singleheader, colspan: 2, align: left"]Target: ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA_o:RMPR850
Distance: 5.4927% / 0.05492669
[/TH]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]95.2[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]4.8[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA[/TD]

Using most aDNA samples I get this:

[TH="class: singleheader, colspan: 2, align: left"]Target: ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA_o:RMPR850
Distance: 2.3041% / 0.02304063 | ADC: 0.5x
[/TH]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]32.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA_low_res[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]27.2[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]ITA_Rome_MA[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]22.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]10.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]ITA_Sardinia_Punic[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]4.2[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]SYR_Ebla_EMBA[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]3.2[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Levant_Beirut_IAIII[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]0.8[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]TUR_Alalakh_MLBA[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]0.6[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]ARM_Areni_C[/TD]

Looks basically Sicilian/South Italian but shifted away from the average towards the Levant and North Africa, so that individual may have been a South Italian or South Italian-shifted Central Italian individual who had had some recent East Mediterranean ancestors.

[TH="class: singleheader, colspan: 2, align: left"]Target: ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA_o:RMPR850
Distance: 2.4684% / 0.02468351 | ADC: 0.5x
[/TH]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]26.6[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Romaniote_Jew[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]16.8[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Ashkenazi_Lithuania[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]14.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Italian_Abruzzo[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]10.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Italian_Jew[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]9.4[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Greek_Kos[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]8.8[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Greek_Crete[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]7.8[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Italian_Campania[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]6.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Sephardic_Jew[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]0.6[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Sicilian_East[/TD]

[TH="class: singleheader, colspan: 2, align: left"]Target: ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA_o:RMPR850
Distance: 3.2132% / 0.03213217 | ADC: 0.25x
[/TH]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]52.4[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]TUR_Barcin_N[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]17.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Levant_PPNB[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]12.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]GEO_CHG[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]12.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]RUS_Khvalynsk_En[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]6.6[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]0.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]LUX_Loschbour[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]0.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]MAR_EN[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]0.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]RUS_Karelia_HG[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]0.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]WHG[/TD]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA_o:RMPR850[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #B3FF00, align: right"]0.03500709[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Imperial:RMPR1543[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #C0FF00, align: right"]0.03772854[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Imperial:RMPR114[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #C3FF00, align: right"]0.03822370[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Imperial:RMPR50[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #C7FF00, align: right"]0.03911010[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Imperial:RMPR51[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #C8FF00, align: right"]0.03916029[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Collegno_MA_o1:CL30[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #C9FF00, align: right"]0.03943211[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_MA:RMPR53[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #D1FF00, align: right"]0.04104719[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity:RMPR122[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #D2FF00, align: right"]0.04117835[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity:RMPR34[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #D4FF00, align: right"]0.04150786[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity:RMPR30[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #D8FF00, align: right"]0.04227926[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_MA:RMPR64[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #DAFF00, align: right"]0.04271799[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_MA:RMPR56[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #DBFF00, align: right"]0.04286452[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity:RMPR136[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #DBFF00, align: right"]0.04288585[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Imperial:RMPR78[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #DFFF00, align: right"]0.04365429[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Imperial:RMPR39[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #DFFF00, align: right"]0.04371049[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Collegno_MA_o1:CL25[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E0FF00, align: right"]0.04387678[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Imperial:RMPR1544[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E0FF00, align: right"]0.04398916[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Imperial:RMPR115[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E1FF00, align: right"]0.04419615[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity:RMPR134[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E2FF00, align: right"]0.04422040[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity:RMPR35[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E6FF00, align: right"]0.04507299[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Imperial:RMPR45
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Vahaduo Dodecad K12b - Modern and Ancient-
Samples from Ardea

 

[Leopoldo Leone]

You would never know they came from Greek origins, unless you look at the samples individually. That's how it is determined they came from Crete. So I have to disagree.
Why is it so imperative to try to find precisely how much levantine are in populations? Yet, with other instances, completely divergent samples should be lumped together. Seems kind of odd to me.

Even if I hold that Ygorcs is spectacularly wrong, I don't think it is honest to insinuate that to him finding Levantine ancestry in Italians matters: he believes he is finding something new, an event that happened in the ethnogenesis of the gene pool of south Italians but that till now has not been properly adressed. To pursue such a discovery ( or "suggestion") it matters a lot to quantify exactly the Levantine admixture in Italians.

 

[Jovialis]

I know they say in the study that r850
Cluster sith anatolia chl
So thd g25 values of davidski is garbage...
So why everyone buy it

Who is everyone King John?

 

[kingdavid]

Who is everyone King John?

I read in apricity only the genetic section
And any person who is newby
They say to him you need g25 values from davidski....