David Reich Southern Arc Paper Abstract

Yeah, i agree. For instance, this skeleton is in Cairo museum, i think he was a hunter-gatherer from Paleolithic Egypt, 20,000 - 22,000 B.C. I assume he would be a good proxy of the shared Iberomaurusian/Natufian origin.

th38jVK.jpg

Hawk: Interesting. That type of skeleton from that period would do the trick. I wasn't aware there was one from that far back in Egypt. Has there ever been a successful attempt to extract DNA from this Skeleton.
 
Hawk: Interesting. That type of skeleton from that period would do the trick. I wasn't aware there was one from that far back in Egypt. Has there ever been a successful attempt to extract DNA from this Skeleton.

I have no idea. It looks in good state, i guess they can do it. If i have to guess, it might be some subclade of E-M35. But, the autosomal might be as much if not more interesting than the Y-DNA itself because he might act as a good proxy for some even more basal population.
 
They need samples from both sides of the Sinai to be sure. For once, there was large scale continuity on both sides, with the Natufians resembling the pre-populations of the Levante, with their gracile type, while the North Africans were extremey robust and masculine, basically at the other end of the spectrum. After some time, we see rather an influx from the Levante into Egypt with farming, or a trend towards a less robust physical type, likely both, in the Nile area.

So having samples from both sides of Sinai, Sinai itself and Yement-Persian Gulf would be great.
 
if this future paper is truly
splitt to 3 periods and 3 papers
i don't know know about presence of E in the neolithic paper since the near eastern samples
come from southeast anatolia , north mesopotamia not the levant ( maybe in the neolithic paper some e-L618 from the balkan samples)
but about chl-bronze age and historical periods
i expect E ( e-v13 in the european sample and e-m123 or e-v22 in the near eastern ones)
 
Unless they find a middle eastern population, that was heavy in RZ2103 and no steppe DNA, this is just Harvard playing politics imo.

Then you can make the case that the EHG ancestry in Yamnaya was female mediated, by southern invaders.
 
Unless they find a middle eastern population, that was heavy in RZ2103 and no steppe DNA, this is just Harvard playing politics imo.

Then you can make the case that the EHG ancestry in Yamnaya was female mediated, by southern invaders.

i take a prediction
that r1b-z2103 will be found in armenia and north iran in the chl-bronze age paper
i can feal it :)
 
Our comprehensive sampling shows that Anatolia received hardly any genetic input from Europe or the Eurasian steppe from the Chalcolithic to the Iron Age; this contrasts with Southeastern Europe and Armenia that were impacted by major gene flow from Yamnaya steppe pastoralists.

Proto-Anatolian is the oldest branch of Indo-European languages. The common ancestor of all Indo-European languages, including Anatolian, can then be called Proto-Indo-Anatolian. Proto-Anatolian was the earliest language to branch off of the parent Proto-Indo-European trunk. What was spoken in the Russian steppes was Late Proto-Indo-European, which had new linguistic innovations in grammar and in usage completely missing in Proto-Anatolian. David Reich's new research could confirm this linguistic theory.

The Precursors of Proto-Indo-European: The Indo-Anatolian and Indo-Uralic Hypotheses (A. Kloekhorst & T. Pronk), Leiden - Boston: Brill.

https://www.kloekhorst.nl/KloekhorstPronkIntroductionPrecursors.pdf
 
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It is also no surprise to me that Anatolia was genetically impregnable throughout the ChL and Bronze Age. This was apparent to me from the findings of damgaard et al. 2018
I have maintained that Anatolia_ChL and Anatolia_BA the basically the same, and mostly just Anatolia_N and CHG. I have said it here, and on anthrogenica, and have been ridiculed for it. I am ecstatic to see the undisputable confirmation.
JqAIQaR.jpg
At least now all the anthrogenica refugees can hide the fact they were wrong, now that the website is possibly defunct.
 
At least now all the anthrogenica refugees can hide the fact they were wrong, now that the website is possibly defunct.

They're not the only site which hides its mistakes by scrubbing the site of all their errors in prediction, logic etc.

That's why God made screen savers! :)
 
Skourtanioti et al. 2020 was another paper I had cited to make my case, but I guess some are mentally impregnable.

BmrQGL8.png


https://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/hal-03041651/document


That picture shows exactly why Anatolia's genetical impregnability throughout the ChL and Bronze Age can't be used as an explanation for the spread of PIE into Anatolia. Greg Melchert stated that proto-Anatolian started to split around 3000 BC which means its spread must have happened way after the Chl. During the genetical impregnability days, so to speak. Your picture shows that the genetic make up didn't change since 6500 BC.

So, if the argument is: we can find any signal, then nothing is proven or disproven. Because you cannot explain the split of Anatolian languages with migrations other than stating linguists are utterly wrong in their dating. But that will open another can of worms: How has PIE then spread to the steppe at that early age? However, if you agree that the diversification of the Anatolian languages cannot be explained by migrations, the absence of a signal can't be proof of anything.
 
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They're not the only site which hides its mistakes by scrubbing the site of all their errors in prediction, logic etc.

That's why God made screen savers! :)

Well then, show us some of the saved screen of these hideous practices.
 
Well then, show us some of the saved screen of these hideous practices.

Oh, he knows I have them, and if he attacks me or bothers me in any way I will indeed post them.

That's why that all stopped.

Btw, I don't even need screenshots for certain things like "predictions".

Did he or did he not say, to slavish applause, that the Mycenaeans would turn out to be blonde, blue eyed very Corded Ware like people? That was one week before the Lazaridis paper came out.

Or how about how he, and your so called linguistic expert insisted and insisted that the Etruscans, or at least their "elites" would turn out to be Middle Eastern migrants from the 1st century B.C.

I could go on and on; I have a list.

If you deny this, then you're a dishonest broker.

To think I pegged you for a nice guy when you first posted here.

You know, if you don't like us here, feel free to visit theapricity or Stormfront while you wait for anthrogenica to come back online
 
davidski you reading this
future southern arc paper :;)

In the Balkans, we reveal a patchwork of Bronze Age populations with diverse proportions of steppe ancestry in the aftermath of the ~3000 BCE Yamnaya migrations, paralleling the linguistic diversity of Paleo-Balkan speakers. We provide insights into the Mycenaean period of the Aegean by documenting variation in the proportion of steppe ancestry (including some individuals who lack it altogether), and finding no evidence for systematic differences in steppe ancestry among social strata, such as those of the elite buried at the Palace of Nestor in Pylos.
 
That picture shows exactly why Anatolia's genetical impregnability throughout the ChL and Bronze Age can't be used as an explanation for the spread of PIE into Anatolia. Greg Melchert stated that proto-Anatolian started to split around 3000 BC which means its spread must have happened way after the Chl. During the genetical impregnability days, so to speak. Your picture shows that the genetic make up didn't change since 6500 BC.

So, if the argument is: we can find any signal, then nothing is proven or disproven. Because you cannot explain the split of Anatolian languages with migrations other than stating linguists are utterly wrong in their dating. But that will open another can of worms: How has PIE then spread to the steppe at that early age? However, if you agree that the diversification of the Anatolian languages cannot be explained by migrations, the absence of a signal can't be proof of anything.

Why do you assume most of us here give a damn, other than as a matter of intellectual curiosity, WHERE the sainted Indo-European or Proto-Indo-European, or Pre-Proto-Indo-European language arose?

That's the obsession of Northern Europeans and Slavs, not other people.

If you're going to agree with Polako that some of the steppe people did NOT have CHG/Iran Neo in them, then the discussion is at an end as far as I'm concerned. The differences between CHG and Iran Neo are minimal. To pretend otherwise is just prejudice masking itself in pseudo-science.

When it got onto the steppe I don't know, and I have no personal stake in the matter. I'm content to wait and see what the Reich Lab has to offer.
 
Why do you assume most of us here give a damn, other than as a matter of intellectual curiosity, WHERE the sainted Indo-European or Proto-Indo-European, or Pre-Proto-Indo-European language arose?

That's the obsession of Northern Europeans and Slavs, not other people...............


Quite frankly, Harvard and the Max Planck scholars appear to be also obsessed with PIE and IE since they spent a lot of time and effort to prove or disprove the Steppe as the Urheimat of the PIE. Hence we get one genetic paper about the PIE and IE after the other. For instance, I‘m still waiting for a major genetic study on the Ancient Egyptians, Italic folks, Classical Greeks, Southern Mesopotamians, etc. I'd like to see Ancient DNA evidence for the original homeland of Proto-Afro-Asiatic for a change.

It's true that many members in the archaeogenetic community that are Northern or Eastern Europeans are emotionally very much attached to the Steppe folks. However, Indians and even some Iranians and Southern Europeans appear to be fixated on or infatuated with the PIE, and IE too.




 
Why do you assume most of us here give a damn, other than as a matter of intellectual curiosity, WHERE the sainted Indo-European or Proto-Indo-European, or Pre-Proto-Indo-European language arose?

That's the obsession of Northern Europeans and Slavs, not other people.

If you're going to agree with Polako that some of the steppe people did NOT have CHG/Iran Neo in them, then the discussion is at an end as far as I'm concerned. The differences between CHG and Iran Neo are minimal. To pretend otherwise is just prejudice masking itself in pseudo-science.

When it got onto the steppe I don't know, and I have no personal stake in the matter. I'm content to wait and see what the Reich Lab has to offer.

Funny thing was I didn't even have PIE or Indo-Europeans in mind when I was arguing that point. I can see that pointing out the fact that Anatolians were genetically the same from the ChL to BA, with Anatolia_N and CHG autosomal DNA really triggers people obsessed with the topic of PIE.
 
Quite frankly, Harvard and the Max Planck scholars appear to be also obsessed with PIE and IE since they spent a lot of time and effort to prove or disprove the Steppe as the Urheimat of the PIE. Hence we get one genetic paper about the PIE and IE after the other. For instance, I‘m still waiting for a major genetic study on the Ancient Egyptians, Italic folks, Classical Greeks, Southern Mesopotamians, etc. I'd like to see Ancient DNA evidence for the original homeland of Proto-Afro-Asiatic for a change.

It's true that many members in the archaeogenetic community that are Northern or Eastern Europeans are emotionally very much attached to the Steppe folks. However, Indians and even some Iranians and Southern Europeans appear to be fixated on or infatuated with the PIE, and IE too.





The only Southern Europeans I've ever seen, and they are few, who are emotionally attached to the issue are pseudo Nazis who hate their own people, and so no longer count as Southern Europeans as far as I'm concerned. As for the Italians among them, I don't know them, or want to know them. If or when I discover that an Italian on the internet has those kinds of beliefs I cut them off.

Of course, the whole thing is an absurdity. Italians, certainly north and central Italians like me, are about 25% steppe and some southerners are close to that. My dad carried U-152, and my mother U2e. I don't hate the steppe people, as they're a part of me, but I don't give a damn that northerners might be 50% steppe. Anyone who does is an idiot, imo. Nor, to be clear, do I think their arrival was a good thing for Europe. I'm always for the civilized core, never the barbarians from the periphery. That's the case even if it turns out to be true that some of the mercenaries who might have brought down Bronze Age Greece were from Italy. I don't play those kinds of games with ethnicity. Principles come first.

As for Reich, you obviously don't pay much attention to the many papers on which he has worked which have absolutely NOTHING to do with the origin of IE.
People often note only the things in which they themselves are interested. I post papers on Near Eastern Genetics, African genetics, Native American genetics etc. It all interests me, although of course I'm particularly interested in Italian genetics. I've studied Italian history and pre-history for decades. That naturally led to an interest in genetics to help explain that pre-history. Doesn't mean I would compromise my integrity out of some agenda. I've spent my life searching for verifiable proof and holding myself to the highest standards of logic and objectivity. I'm not going to change my methods or morality just because Italy is involved.

That said, yes of course, his Lab would like to solve the puzzle. It's interesting. It doesn't mean he gives a damn what the data shows. Someone who disagrees with you doesn't necessarily do so out of some agenda. When people do that it's glaringly obvious, because the data doesn't support them. When someone keeps being proven wrong by new data it should tell you their predictions stem from what they wish to be true, not to what the data is hinting.

I once told Polako, when he came here spoiling for a fight and got his hat handed to him, that his mistakes would fill the pages of an old fashioned telephone directory for a small city. He's only gotten worse with time. I, on the other hand, if I may toot my own horn for a moment, have a pretty damn good record, which you would know if you had come here occasionally instead of always listening to the "click" on anthrogenica and eurogenes.com.

As for Indians, the only Indian who loves them, to my knowledge, is Razib Khan. It's one of the reasons I unsubscribed from his substack. Writing a paper about their influence in India doesn't mean someone has an emotional attachment to that ancestry. The emotional reaction I see is the hatred most Indians who express an opinion have of the whole idea.
 
The only Southern Europeans I've ever seen, and they are few, who are emotionally attached to the issue are pseudo Nazis who hate their own people, and so no longer count as Southern Europeans as far as I'm concerned. As for the Italians among them, I don't know them, or want to know them. If or when I discover that an Italian on the internet has those kinds of beliefs I cut them off.

Of course, the whole thing is an absurdity. Italians, certainly north and central Italians like me, are about 25% steppe and some southerners are close to that. My dad carried U-152, and my mother U2e. I don't hate the steppe people, as they're a part of me, but I don't give a damn that northerners might be 50% steppe. Anyone who does is an idiot, imo. Nor, to be clear, do I think their arrival was a good thing for Europe. I'm always for the civilized core, never the barbarians from the periphery. That's the case even if it turns out to be true that some of the mercenaries who might have brought down Bronze Age Greece were from Italy. I don't play those kinds of games with ethnicity. Principles come first.

As for Reich, you obviously don't pay much attention to the many papers on which he has worked which have absolutely NOTHING to do with the origin of IE.
People often note only the things in which they themselves are interested. I post papers on Near Eastern Genetics, African genetics, Native American genetics etc. It all interests me, although of course I'm particularly interested in Italian genetics. I've studied Italian history and pre-history for decades. That naturally led to an interest in genetics to help explain that pre-history. Doesn't mean I would compromise my integrity out of some agenda. I've spent my life searching for verifiable proof and holding myself to the highest standards of logic and objectivity. I'm not going to change my methods or morality just because Italy is involved.

That said, yes of course, his Lab would like to solve the puzzle. It's interesting. It doesn't mean he gives a damn what the data shows. Someone who disagrees with you doesn't necessarily do so out of some agenda. When people do that it's glaringly obvious, because the data doesn't support them. When someone keeps being proven wrong by new data it should tell you their predictions stem from what they wish to be true, not to what the data is hinting.

I once told Polako, when he came here spoiling for a fight and got his hat handed to him, that his mistakes would fill the pages of an old fashioned telephone directory for a small city. He's only gotten worse with time. I, on the other hand, if I may toot my own horn for a moment, have a pretty damn good record, which you would know if you had come here occasionally instead of always listening to the "click" on anthrogenica and eurogenes.com.

As for Indians, the only Indian who loves them, to my knowledge, is Razib Khan. It's one of the reasons I unsubscribed from his substack. Writing a paper about their influence in India doesn't mean someone has an emotional attachment to that ancestry. The emotional reaction I see is the hatred most Indians who express an opinion have of the whole idea.

Aren't you doing what Davidski is doing, but in the opposite direction?

PIE is the greatest language family in the history of the world. Discovering its urheimat would be one of the most important findings in the history of archeology.
 
Anyhow like I said, they would only hit it out of the ballpark if they discover RZ2103 originated in the middle east, and coupled with EHG females in the steppe.

Looking at YFull some basal branches of RZ2103 are actually in Iraq/Middle East.
 

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