Is anthrogenica.com gone?

[Jovialis]

Regarding all east med shift post BA/ during Imperial times, do some here actually believe that it was pure Anatolian based without Levantine contribution? Maybe I should make a thread on the topic. I believe since the Antonio et al times I have consistently disagreed on this with Jov/Angela, although with Angela not directly, more so it seemed to me she was in Jovialis camp.

I don't understand why Antonio et al would have you believe that when it explicitly shows levantine sources died away after the Imperial era, and eastern Mediterranean slowly fades away by late Antiquity. Again, I defer to my thread.

 

[Archetype0ne]

Anatolia_BA is 5% levantine farmer on average according to Lazaridis. I'm in his camp.

Not disagreeing on this as its likely correct. I mean, after the Antonio et al paper it was evident by the different clusters, that there was a Levantine cluster IIRC. C4 or C7 can't recall which one it was, have not read the paper in year/s. The presence of such a cluster is proof that people of Levant were present during Roman times in Rome. I mean it isn't such a surprise given the region was part of Rome in the BCs already. I really fail to see why this is so controversial. In my mind to get modern Albanians one needs two shifts as I have mentioned many times, an eastern shift to pull Illyrians south east and a northern shift (which might have been multi phased, Sarmatian, Slavic and Germanic). Only reason why I have a bone to pick in this debate.

 

[mount123]

This is not about Illyrians.

Even though it has nothing to do with this thread you are bringing it up all the time. That's a way to contradict your own words I must say.

 

[Archetype0ne]

I don't understand why Antonio et al would have you believe that when it explicitly shows levantine sources died away after the Imperial era, and eastern Mediterranean slowly fades away by late Antiquity. Again, I defer to my thread.

Dying away is one explanation, melting into the pot is another. From what I remember you had an issue with the Antonio description of North Italy plotting where it does from significant Langobard/ Germanic like shift North. But if one takes this at face value, after the shift south-east such a North shift is vital for Italians to still plot on top of BA Illyrians. Alas, lets move this conversation to the appropriate thread.

 

[Jovialis]

Not disagreeing on this as its likely correct. I mean, after the Antonio et al paper it was evident by the different clusters, that there was a Levantine cluster IIRC. C4 or C7 can't recall which one it was, have not read the paper in year/s. The presence of such a cluster is proof that people of Levant were present during Roman times in Rome. I mean it isn't such a surprise given the region was part of Rome in the BCs already. I really fail to see why this is so controversial. In my mind to get modern Albanians one needs two shifts as I have mentioned many times, an eastern shift to pull Illyrians south east and a northern shift (which might have been multi phased, Sarmatian, Slavic and Germanic). Only reason why I have a bone to pick in this debate.

It is controversial because it violates what the paper shows in later eras. I recommend re-reading. Btw, c4 is near eastern c7 is European. However the middle ages shows C6 and C7 are the remaining source populations, Mediterranean and European. I've studied the paper and data very closely.

 

[Jovialis]

Dying away is one explanation, melting into the pot is another. From what I remember you had an issue with the Antonio description of North Italy plotting where it does from significant Langobard/ Germanic like shift North. But if one takes this at face value, after the shift south-east such a North shift is vital for Italians to still plot on top of BA Illyrians. Alas, lets move this conversation to the appropriate thread.

We see Anatolia_BA in the south, so there is some east med admixture. But that could have arrived via Greek colonists or later in history. Even Imperial times.

Please see the link I posted.

In regards to the longobards, I think the Y-DNA doesn't support that much of a shift from their contribution. However, I don't think I've articulated that view yet.

 

[Jovialis]

It is funny, I was basically banned from anthrogenica for arguing this point. But now here I am with the same people, and I am the moderator. But don't worry, I won't ban people for disagreeing with me. Because I actually have scruples.

 

[Archetype0ne]

It is funny, I was basically banned from anthrogenica for arguing this point. But now here I am with the same people, and I am the moderator. But don't worry, I won't ban people for disagreeing with me. Because I actually have scruples.

I think for the most part we argue in good faith. As you know I have been consistent in my arguments for years, way before I was ever active on Anthro.

 

[Jovialis]

I think for the most part we argue in good faith. As you know I have been consistent in my arguments for years, way before I was ever active on Anthro.

I do think you argue in good faith actually, you have proven so many times. We just disagree, and this fine too. I'm sure my theory will need some adjustments as new information comes out, such as new data on other Italic groups in Italy during the time. We also need Bronze Age southern Italian samples.

 

[Jovialis]

Okay, let the topic continue as the mystery behind the disappearance of anthrogenica.com

 

[hrvclv]

He doth protest too much.

Hamlet is fine, but far less relevant here than The Taming of the Shrew :

"Come, come, you wasp; i' faith, you are too angry."

"Though little fire grows great with little wind,
Yet extreme gusts will blow out fire and all" (and constant rebuking and hollering will bring the numbers of Eupedia members down to a handful).

"If she do bid me pack, I'll give her thanks."

 

[Angela]

Hamlet is fine, but far less relevant here than The Taming of the Shrew :
"Come, come, you wasp; i' faith, you are too angry."
"Though little fire grows great with little wind,
Yet extreme gusts will blow out fire and all" (and constant rebuking and hollering will bring the numbers of Eupedia members down to a handful).
"If she do bid me pack, I'll give her thanks."

How nice to meet someone so conversant with great literature, and how sad you use it to project dislike. The Shrew? How hurtful.

Perhaps I'll answer with:

"Wilt thou be gone?...stay yet. Thou need'st not be gone".

Or perhaps,

"If we shadows have offended, Know but this and all is mended. That you have but slumbered ere, While these visions did appear, And this weak and idle them, No more yielding, but a dream. "

 

[Pax Augusta]

What does that mean? Is a 'Levantinist' someone who acknowledges the obvious fact the modern Greeks, Italians and other southern Europeans have some amount of Iron Age Levantine and Anatolian ancestry? Frankly, it's absurd that there have been so many papers which show that this ancestry was widespread in Imperial Roman times and has persisted (to some extent) until today, and yet the researchers are struggling to acknowledge it, despite what their own data are showing. The latest example is the Antonio et al 2022 pre-print about "stable population structure":

The majority of present-day Balkan individuals in the figure above cluster between the C11 cluster and the C4 cluster.

Levantinism is when one does nothing but talk about it, and when every discussion about southern Europeans is reduced to this, as was intended, it is happening again, trying to build bridges that no longer exist. For goodness' sake, there might be some amount indeed of Iron Age Levantine and Anatolian ancestry in southern Europeans, but there is also much more. Just as it is Nordicism when all one does is talk about how 'Nordic' one is, and so on. In this sense, yes, Anthrogenica has certainly been frequented for a long time by users obsessed with this kind of topics, and who do not like to confront those who think differently. Because in the end this "research" was rather about their personal and individual identity rather than something unselfish. The big mistake is then to project it onto others. Starting with those of one's own 'ethnicity'.

But real life does not work like that. Certainly not for me. I think he is out of his mind if someone is influenced by his DNA results, and tries to build a new identity on the basis of them. OK, I can understand that it might happen to some new worlders because they have ancestors from the most disparate areas of the world. But the truth is that today one's identity depends very much on oneself, and very little on one's ancestors. When I chose Pax Augusta as my nickname (which is also wrong, by the way), I did so in an ironic manner. Because I knew that sooner or later we would come to terms with imperial Rome. Did Augustus know all the trouble his actions would later cause? I think not. But what began with him is disarmingly modern. So much so that today terms such as Pax Anglo-Saxonica or Pax Americana or Pax Britannica are used to describe what has happened in recent decades.

Ah, sorry, I lost the thread, what were we talking about? Ah, yeah. About how Levantine Southern Europeans are. Interesting topic that we never talk about.

 

[Riverman]

I think he is out of his mind if someone is influenced by his DNA results, and tries to build a new identity on the basis of them.

I'd agree with one exception: if you find out that e.g. your parents are not your real biological parents, most commonly your father.
Anything more remote than grandparents is of course strange.

Is anyone in contact with staff members from Anthrogenica? Or knows where they can be contacted?

 

[Pax Augusta]

I'd agree with one exception: if you find out that e.g. your parents are not your real biological parents, most commonly your father.
Anything more remote than grandparents is of course strange.

I understand very well what you say but what you're doing is still a very extreme example, I think.

Is anyone in contact with staff members from Anthrogenica? Or knows where they can be contacted?

No, I'm sorry.

 

[Dushman]

7 pages in a few days and it’s about Anthrogenica? Few days on the beach and I missed so much for the first time.

I’ve not seen a single negative exchange of posts or people arguing although I just lurk there for information so I don’t know about Anthrogenica’s old reputation.

Being new to genetics, when I lurk through old topics on here I just stumble across banned members and dear lord don’t get me started on Albanians being literally thrown out.

I saw the last comments of several members and they were far from deserving a ban, let alone a permanent ban.

From my short experience, the worst Albanians/Albanian speakers (self identifying as Kosovars) are concentrated here on Eupedia because they’re banned everywhere else.

 

[Pax Augusta]

https://twitter.com/anthrogenica


https://www.reddit.com/r/Genealogy/comments/w02psa/what_happened_to_the_anthrogenica_forum/

 

[torzio]

I read lots of rubbish about racism of the moderators at that site.............there was no indications of certain types of people being banned....I saw from British, to Americans, to Italians, Slavs, and middle easterners, africans and asians all being banned ....there was no banning of members due to the race or ethnicity.

the flaw of the site was allowing linguistic threads which began these "racist" comments ..............and the abuse one got if they got involved with these linguistic groups

Lesson for Eupedia

 

[Vallicanus]

You are judged by the company you keep.

Anthrogenica saw Polako/Davidski as some sort of guru of exceptional wisdom.

 

[mount123]

7 pages in a few days and it’s about Anthrogenica? Few days on the beach and I missed so much for the first time.

I’ve not seen a single negative exchange of posts or people arguing although I just lurk there for information so I don’t know about Anthrogenica’s old reputation.

Being new to genetics, when I lurk through old topics on here I just stumble across banned members and dear lord don’t get me started on Albanians being literally thrown out.

I saw the last comments of several members and they were far from deserving a ban, let alone a permanent ban.

Not sure what it is with the need of personalization of the thread's topic. You have literally been banned on this forum when you posted under your former account Zanatis, and rightfully so.