David Reich Southern Arc Paper Abstract

It's funny how you can represent ancient admixtures as you want by choosing the pop's which will be taken as reference. Uneasy to be very sure of anything. It recalls me the case of Dzudzuana and Anatolia HG's, and the debated presence of WHG in the last.
BTW here Iran is very young compared to the others elements.
The question is: who is donor? In fact notalways the more ancient pop in play! It could be an unknown pop even more ancient pop!
I think i grew to old. LOL
 
I can see only two ways in which PIE could have emerged in Iran and not in the steppe:


Cultural influence, as the Indo-European paternal lineage is strongly R1b and R1a


Female exogamy, but unlikely.


Even if it arose in Iran, the most considerable place of spread is the steppe and with direct connection to steppe ancestry most of the time
 
He didn't give more info but it seems he has those articles.

img_20220820_002205_1x6c.png
 
Agree again that it doesn’t matter where the PIE homeland was. As may have been mentioned before, many of us have those ancestral components/regions in us anyway: Steppe, ANE, Iran/CHG.

Really looking forward to all the new ancient samples, instead of always looking at the old ones.
 
Moja said:
16 new samples from Hasanlu in the northwest of Iran, all of them R1b with no EHG ancestry.
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Wow, that's what I call exciting news?

Do we know the clades? Are they L584s like F38?
 
Moja said:
Three articles will be published on August 26, someone who works with David Reich said to me.
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Thanks
For sharing ;)
Looking forward
Should be interesting paper
 
Moja said:
16 new samples from Hasanlu in the northwest of Iran, all of them R1b with no EHG ancestry.
Click to expand...

The most interesting part about this is that they don't have any EHG ancestry, therefore NO steppe ancestry.
 
MOESAN said:
It's funny how you can represent ancient admixtures as you want by choosing the pop's which will be taken as reference. Uneasy to be very sure of anything. It recalls me the case of Dzudzuana and Anatolia HG's, and the debated presence of WHG in the last.
BTW here Iran is very young compared to the others elements.
The question is: who is donor? In fact notalways the more ancient pop in play! It could be an unknown pop even more ancient pop!
I think i grew to old. LOL
Click to expand...

If the gene flow was the other way, CHG going to Iran_N, you would have EHG/ANE in Iran_N. So I think Iran_N being the donor is the right modeling.
 
That leaves ANE still the connecting dot. ANE people mixing with WHG formed EHG, ANE people mixing with Iranian Farmers/CHG could have formed the Pre PIE, and EHG were secondary homeland according to this model. Let's see./

Between the phase of Pre PIE and Proto-IE Luwian-Hittite could have split from Core-IE, and Core IE might be entirely or mostly EHG/Steppe related.
 
Anfänger said:
The most interesting part about this is that they don't have any EHG ancestry, therefore NO steppe ancestry.
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But he says steppe ancestry existed in the northwest of Iran, I don't get it.
 
Moja said:
But he says steppe ancestry existed in the northwest of Iran, I don't get it.
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Does he say which time period the samples are from? Bronze Age or Iron Age?
 
Moja said:
Iron Age. About 971 BC.
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Not strange, then. If I understood correctly what Reich is gonna to support.


Anfänger said:
They are not even using FST stats but the distance option in Vahaduo with G25 coordinates. We all know that Davidski´s G25 has many flaws and he is regularly changing the coordinates. We don't even know the ancestral components behind G25, so not a good tool at all.
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Totally agree. Exactly so.
 
Moja said:
Iron Age. About 971 BC.
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Indeed not that strange since we already have R1b-Z2103 from Hasanlu and Hajji Firuz Iron Age. Seems like R1b-Z2103 had quite a spread during the Iron Age in the region. Most of the R1b-Z2103 was probably replaced by Kurdish derived haplogroups like R1a and I2 after the Iron Age. Today the region is mostly populated by Kurds before that it was largely populated by Armenians and Assyrians, many of whom probably R1b-Z2103. Still interesting that they don't have any EHG ancestry because the already published samples Hasanlu IA and Hajji Firuz IA do have steppe ancestry, therefore EHG. Anyway, these samples are way too young to be related to anything PIE.
 
Moja said:
Iron Age. About 971 BC.
Click to expand...

The expansion of the Yamnaya in northern Iran took place in the Bronze Age. These samples are from the Iron Age and their haplogroup is R1b, but they have no steppe ancestry (so they cannot be descendants of the Yamanya). So there's only one explanation: they were the last survivors of a pre-Yamnaya population, which was the origin of the Yamanya themselves (through paternal lineage). So the Yamnaya ancestry was not EHG men and CHG/Iran_N women, but the opposite: CHG/Iran_N men and EHG women (at least that's what I understood).
 
Just_a_Common_Guy said:
The expansion of the Yamnaya in northern Iran took place in the Bronze Age. These samples are from the Iron Age and their haplogroup is R1b, but they have no steppe ancestry (so they cannot be descendants of the Yamanya). So there's only one explanation: they were the last survivors of a pre-Yamnaya population, which was the origin of the Yamanya themselves (through paternal lineage). So the Yamnaya ancestry was not EHG men and CHG/Iran_N women, but the opposite: CHG/Iran_N men and EHG women (at least that's what I understood).
Click to expand...

I would say that this is not the only possible explanation. I am only reasoning. If they arrived with Steppe ancestry in their genome in the Bronze Age, generation after generation in the Iron Age, after mixing for centuries with the local population without Steppe, might Steppe ancestry signal have simply disappeared from their genome?

When is it estimated that they may have arrived in the Bronze Age?

I also ask Anfänger.
 
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