Where does the Albanian language come from? [VIDEO]

td120 said:
Лека/Леко (Leka,Leko) when in Bulgaria is usually diminutive from Alexi or Aleko.


Look yourself in the texts you quoted " Alexi Radenkov"---> "Leka Radenkov" , simple as that.


"-in" in the Bulgarian family names pertain to the village or the family the person stems from (for example Kole Mitrin can be Kole/Nikola of the Mitrevi family= Kole Mitrev...or Kole, son of Mitra (Dimitra), as sometimes the young widow's name would stick instead the father's. Same with Petre Lalin --->of Lalevi...or "the son of Lala". Both Lalyo(m.) and Lala(f.) are variants/diminutives of the Biblical name Lazar. Sometimes Lala can be a form of Zlata but that is rare).


There are several Gigov families and they probably stem from the Western Outlands and Macedonia, one of them is the author Nikola Gigov from


https://bg.wikipedia.org/wiki/Вучи_дел

Now Belut is an interesting case...the others are plain no go.
Click to expand...


Leka = Aleks in Albanian
Kola = Nikola in Albanian
This is the first time I am hearing that this is Slavic now. That would be a anomaly for Bulgaria if that's the case. And Hristo Sandchiev, forgot that Leka is a Bulgarian name, is he as person in his own field not aware that Leka is really a Bulgarian name? Sorry dude.

Lale and Lazar, I don't see it, I am sure that's the current usage, but it is a adaptation of an alien name to an explanation that's digestible to the current ethnic identity of the people, but the origin of Lale to Lazar is not of lineage, just adopted/baptized into something the christian Slavic conscious can relate to.
 
Johane Derite said:
The most surprising thing I did not expect was this relative absence of Z2103 from the core j2b-l283 area, if this actually holds up to be the case then the ramifications are huge.
Click to expand...

I wrote that 2-3 weeks ago before the data came out. In poreklo one of the posters was very confident in his observation that Z2103 is more diverse in south-eastern Serbia, west Bulgaria and parts of Macedonia and thus the parent source for Albanian Z2103 . E-V13 with R1b came from the east, J2b is the adopted son north of Shkumbin. The main ingredients of the current Albanian identity in a nutshell.

Also from Tirana to the region of Opar was also a initial zone of settlement by the early Albanians, this region was not an Illyrian(Komani) region in terms of J2b dominance. And that is why the Arvanites and Arberesh are severely lacking in J2b, because they mostly stem from this group as it gradually expanded south.
 
We Illyrians nigga or Thrako-Illyrians not Thracians. Cannot imagine Albanian as pure Thracian.
 
PaleoRevenge said:
I wrote that 2-3 weeks ago before the data came out. In poreklo one of the posters was very confident in his observation that Z2103 is more diverse in south-eastern Serbia, west Bulgaria and parts of Macedonia and thus the parent source for Albanian Z2103 . E-V13 with R1b came from the east, J2b is the adopted son north of Shkumbin. The main ingredients of the current Albanian identity in a nutshell.

Also from Tirana to the region of Opar was also a initial zone of settlement by the early Albanians, this region was not an Illyrian(Komani) region in terms of J2b dominance. And that is why the Arvanites and Arberesh are severely lacking in J2b, because they mostly stem from this group as it gradually expanded south.
Click to expand...
Can you point us to such a post?

Most of their Z2103 is under Z2705 just like ours, and most certainly the diversity of Z2705 doesn't lie anywhere near South East Serbia. You may have been looking at some old posts where they claimed that, perhaps, or they are still delusional.

Anyway, I wouldn't totally rule out that perhaps in early stages Z2705 could have moved from eastern Kosove or Paeonia along with some V13 West. Perhaps just when Rome started crumbling considering the new finds, but don't forget that we also have a CTS1450 from Kukes too. Monte and Albania will yield more Z2103, it's just a matter of testing more sites. Croatia and further north may not however, but I am not too concerned with those regions.

I did look most of those samples:
I10167 - low coverage, so almost useless
I7231 - is CTS1450-
I10377 - low coverage, just like I10167 (wouldn't trust these low coverage samples on autosomal models either)
I8112 - doesn't seem to be available yet (super curious about this one because it's most def a Paeonian sample)
 
The E-V13 samples from Kapitan Andreevo and from Thracian mounds were descended from Zimnicea-Plovdiv Complex, Insula Banului, mixed with Noua-Sabanitovska-Coslogeni (probably distantly related with Proto-Iranians and perhaps the Proto-Thracian language carriers), these are the Eastern Hallstattian aka Stamped Pottery culture. These people started to use inhumation during Iron Age hence why we start seeing E-V13. We need the Belegis-Gava II related samples, Viminacium was close to Belegis-Gava II and it was packed with E-V13, i bet it was present among Pannonian-Illyrians as well also in Slavonia hence why the closer to Late Iron Age we get the more chances E-V13 to pop out. The big issue is these people were far more conservative on their burial rite, using cremation for prolonged time.

As for Dardani, i don't know, the 2 J2b2-L283 and 1 E-V13 from Eastern Serbia were either Dalmatians or Dardanians per grave classifications. Dardanians should have quite a lot of E-V13. Glasinac-Mat affected the Dardanian culture on western border where they pushed them more to East and the Triballians pushed them more South. We also have one E-V13 from Naissus, but he might be equally Triballian or Dardanian.

As for R1b-Z2103 it might be Illyrian descended or Illyrized during Late Bronze Age/Early Iron Age, they might be related to Paeonians/Brygians. It doesn't really look these were related with Thracians in any way.
 
broder said:
Can you point us to such a post?

Most of their Z2103 is under Z2705 just like ours, and most certainly the diversity of Z2705 doesn't lie anywhere near South East Serbia. You may have been looking at some old posts where they claimed that, perhaps, or they are still delusional.

Anyway, I wouldn't totally rule out that perhaps in early stages Z2705 could have moved from eastern Kosove or Paeonia along with some V13 West. Perhaps just when Rome started crumbling considering the new finds, but don't forget that we also have a CTS1450 from Kukes too. Monte and Albania will yield more Z2103, it's just a matter of testing more sites. Croatia and further north may not however, but I am not too concerned with those regions.

I did look most of those samples:
I10167 - low coverage, so almost useless
I7231 - is CTS1450-
I10377 - low coverage, just like I10167 (wouldn't trust these low coverage samples on autosomal models either)
I8112 - doesn't seem to be available yet (super curious about this one because it's most def a Paeonian sample)
Click to expand...

I don't know which thread, I read through google translate in the first place. I think it might have been a thread about R1b itself. But I agree with you, I think it would have been picked up through Paeonian or Dardanian. Dardanian substrate is speculated to be related to Paeonian (the pre-Illyrian and pre-Thracian layer).
 
broder said:
Can you point us to such a post?

Most of their Z2103 is under Z2705 just like ours, and most certainly the diversity of Z2705 doesn't lie anywhere near South East Serbia. You may have been looking at some old posts where they claimed that, perhaps, or they are still delusional.

Anyway, I wouldn't totally rule out that perhaps in early stages Z2705 could have moved from eastern Kosove or Paeonia along with some V13 West. Perhaps just when Rome started crumbling considering the new finds, but don't forget that we also have a CTS1450 from Kukes too. Monte and Albania will yield more Z2103, it's just a matter of testing more sites. Croatia and further north may not however, but I mot not too concerned with those regions.
Click to expand...
That is a border region and none of the samples from Montenegro aka Illyrii proprie dicti are Z2103. Why would it be surprising to find such lineages in Kukes when the IA North Macedonian results are rich in them? Paeonians being the key word here.

There were lots of movements of different groups of peoples in different time frames so we are bound to find xyz haplogroups in other regions too. Apart from that most groups also expanded e. g. Proto-Illyrian Cetina and Dinaric culture hence why we find J2b-L283 also in the West Adriatic and Central mediterranean. There are plenty such examples for other cultures too.
 
Samples found in Kukes are definitely some kind of Proto-Dardanians or related tribes and was even within Dardanian territorial area or close by. Not sure about supposedly Glasinac-Mati pushing them out since Dardanians were eventually of that culture. In my honest opinion, That's just an assumption before these tribal territories had even formed and one could make such claims for basically anything.

There were also Proto-Thracians / Dacians that migrated from the Steppes and into the Western/Central Balkans
 
mount123 said:
That is a border region and none of the samples from Montenegro aka Illyrii proprie dicti are Z2103. Why would it be surprising to find such lineages in Kukes when the IA North Macedonian results are rich in them? Paeonians being the key word here.

There were lots of movements of different groups of peoples in different time frames so we are bound to find xyz haplogroups in other regions too. Apart from that most groups also expanded e. g. Proto-Illyrian Cetina and Dinaric culture hence why we find J2b-L283 also in the West Adriatic and Central mediterranean. There are plenty such examples for other cultures too.
Click to expand...

Two reasons;
- today's Z2705 diversity lies in that region
- we have a Iapygian Z2103+ sample (which I don't think it jumped ship from Macedonia)

Besides, all Monte samples come from one site - Velika Gruda. Probably all one clan. Like testing one of our major Malesia clans now days and calming the whole of Malesia belongs to that linage. We need more data points to come to a more reasonable conclusion.
 
1337_ said:
Samples found in Kukes are definitely some kind of Proto-Dardanians or related tribes and was even within Dardanian territorial area or close by. Not sure about supposedly Glasinac-Mati pushing them out since Dardanians were eventually of that culture. In my honest opinion, That's just an assumption before these tribal territories had even formed.

Could use the same claim for various J2b2 or any pre-Illyrian or pre-Thracian pushing each other out. Mainly Indo-European speakers that settled and inhabited the areas. That's how much we know. There were also Proto-Thracians / Dacians that migrated from the Steppes and into the Western/Central Balkans
Click to expand...
Cinamak was a proper Illyrian territory. Considered Glasinac-Mati site since early Iron Age.
 
broder said:
Cinamak was a proper Illyrian territory. Considered Glasinac-Mati site since early Iron Age.
Click to expand...

Dardania too seems to of been Glasinac-Mati.

The territory of present-day Kosovo[a] which formed the core area of the Dardani has been inhabited since the Neolithic era. Runik and Vlashnjë are two of the most significant sites in the Neolithic period. During the late 3rd millennium BCE, Proto-Indo-European tribes migrated and settled in the region alongside the existing Neolithic population. New practices in agriculture and cattle breeding appear in this period and new settlements formed in Kosovo.[a] Co-existence and intermingling of the Neolithic population and the PIE-speakers gave rise to the material culture which developed in the Bronze Age (2100-1100 BCE) in settlements including Vlashnjë, Korishë, Pogragjë, Bardhi i Madh and Topanicë. In the Iron Age habitation further developed with the emergence of the Glasinac-Mat culture, an Illyrian material culture which developed in the Iron Age western Balkans.[39] The Dardani - as they became known in classical antiquity - were one of the particular groups of the Glasinac-Mat culture.[40]Archaeological research in the territory of Dardania greatly expanded since 2000. In contemporary research, a periodization of four phases of development of pre-Roman Dardania is being utilized:[41]
Click to expand...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kukës
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dardani


Kukes is like only 30km away from Western Kosovo
 
PaleoRevenge said:
Leka = Aleks in Albanian
Kola = Nikola in Albanian
This is the first time I am hearing that this is Slavic now. That would be a anomaly for Bulgaria if that's the case. And Hristo Sandchiev, forgot that Leka is a Bulgarian name, is he as person in his own field not aware that Leka is really a Bulgarian name? Sorry dude.

Lale and Lazar, I don't see it, I am sure that's the current usage, but it is a adaptation of an alien name to an explanation that's digestible to the current ethnic identity of the people, but the origin of Lale to Lazar is not of lineage, just adopted/baptized into something the christian Slavic conscious can relate to.
Click to expand...




You obviously do not pay attention to what you've posted yourself :


S4C8HAI.png



...............


Leka (Лека) ; Leko (Leko) is a Slavic version , diminutive of Alexi (gr.Alexios) . The Russians have it too .


pQtRp2q.png



https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Алексей


.............


Here you can see the version of Lazar (Лазар) - Lazarina (f.), Lazarka(f.), Lalka(f.),Lalo(m.),Lalko(m.),Lala(f.),Lalyo(m.),Lalyu(m.)


u7Ws9zr.png



https://bnr.bg/starazagora/post/101458232/lazarovden-v-etara


Lazarovden = The day of Lazarus of Bethany


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazarus_Saturday


.............


Please pause for a while before posting some weird things and embarrass yourself further.


As for Sаldzhiеv you can contact him :
https://gate.cas.bg/user.php?id=155
 
1337_ said:
Dardania too seems to of been Glasinac-Mati.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kukës
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dardani


Kukes is like only 30km away from Western Kosovo
Click to expand...

Although Glasinac-Mati indeed was present in Western shores of Dardania, the Dardanians used cremation burials as well unlike the core Illyrians.

In fact, in a classification, A. Jovanovi
ć
considers that the busta tumular graves with step-pit represent a distinct category, namely that of “Thracian” grave type
33
.According to this author, the system represents the Romanised version of the old burial traditions specific of Thracian–Dardanian–Missian cultural horizon. The statistic analysis undertaken upon the elements which pertain of the funeral rite, namely of the cremation system, in the funeral incineration complexes dating fromthe Roman period that have been researched so far on the territory of Moesia Inferior indicate a percentage of64% for the bustum grave type
35
. A similar situation is recorded in Thracia, with the mention that the percentage of graves with on site cremation is slightly higher (67%)
36

https://www.academia.edu/5636594/FU..._TO_THE_ANCIENT_COMMUNITIES_AT_ALBURNUS_MAIOR
Click to expand...

There are archaeologists, Yugoslav ones who are convinced those Glasinac-Mati don't represent Dardanians but Autariate. But, i admit, it's up to debate still what was their true affiliations. The appearance of the name Dardania in North-Western Anatolia where Channeled-Ware cousins migrated during Late Bronze Age, the tribal name of Bardyllis per Hammond Peresadyes which is connected with Odrysians, and also the name of King Monunius which is a name attested only among Odrysians (the son of Prince Berisades name is Monunius as well) makes me confused about their true affilitations, perhaps they were mixed people, or their core ancestry was shared ancestry with Proto-Thracians but with heavy Illyrian influence from the west and Thracian influence from the east.
 
Hawk said:
Although Glasinac-Mati indeed was present in Western shores of Dardania, the Dardanians used cremation burials as well unlike the core Illyrians.



There are archaeologists, Yugoslav ones who are convinced those Glasinac-Mati don't represent Dardanians but Autariate. But, i admit, it's up to debate still what was their true affiliations.
Click to expand...

Could be some Thracian influence, as Thracians and Dacians lived in Eastern Dardania, and there were even Dacian towns in Dardania for example. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quemedava , the Moesi were also Daco-Thracian tribe.
 
td120 said:
You obviously do not pay attention to what you've posted yourself :


S4C8HAI.png



...............


Leka (Лека) ; Leko (Leko) is a Slavic version , diminutive of Alexi (gr.Alexios) . The Russians have it too .


pQtRp2q.png



https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Алексей


.............


Here you can see the version of Lazar (Лазар) - Lazarina (f.), Lazarka(f.), Lalka(f.),Lalo(m.),Lalko(m.),Lala(f.),Lalyo(m.),Lalyu(m.)


u7Ws9zr.png



https://bnr.bg/starazagora/post/101458232/lazarovden-v-etara


Lazarovden = The day of Lazarus of Bethany


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazarus_Saturday


.............


Please pause for a while before posting some weird things and embarrass yourself further.


As for Sаldzhiеv you can contact him :
https://gate.cas.bg/user.php?id=155
Click to expand...

Nice chimp out. LOL I don't feel embarrassed, I am laughing. No one will read your endless Bulgarian text. How about you show it, are there living Bulgarians with those names? Linkedin profiles? It should not be hard if these are just your everyday Bulgarian names.

Look yourself in the texts you quoted " Alexi Radenkov"---> "Leka Radenkov" , simple as that.
Click to expand...

Buddy, the quotes are from different settlements, if that's supposed to be the same person, I have no way of knowing that. Why are you chimping out?
 
td120 said:
You obviously do not pay attention to what you've posted yourself :





...............


Leka (Лека) ; Leko (Leko) is a Slavic version , diminutive of Alexi (gr.Alexios) . The Russians have it too .





https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Алексей


.............


Here you can see the version of Lazar (Лазар) - Lazarina (f.), Lazarka(f.), Lalka(f.),Lalo(m.),Lalko(m.),Lala(f.),Lalyo(m.),Lalyu(m.)





https://bnr.bg/starazagora/post/101458232/lazarovden-v-etara


Lazarovden = The day of Lazarus of Bethany


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazarus_Saturday


.............


Please pause for a while before posting some weird things and embarrass yourself further.


As for Sаldzhiеv you can contact him :
https://gate.cas.bg/user.php?id=155
Click to expand...

I speak fluently one of the Slavic languages, almost like native and i can tell you it's impossible for Aleksander/Aleksei to be called Leka on their tongue. Never seen such a case.
 
Leave wiki bro. Read Wilkes for starters and go from there. Besides few settlements from around Prizren and the Bernjica group from more east, the rest of Dardania falls within the Glasinaci-Mati sphere. Make of that what you wish.
 
Hawk said:
I speak fluently one of the Slavic languages, almost like native and i can tell you it's impossible for Aleksander/Aleksei to be called Leka on their tongue. Never seen such a case.
Click to expand...

I agree, also highly unlikely Bulgarian academia would not point that out to one of their colleagues that wrote the paper about Leka the Paulician. Papers are peer reviewed. I do believe though Russians use Kolya, but Russians have Finno-Baltic influences, and it could be non-Slavic influence from those groups. Everything has to be put into context as well, you know Kole Gigov, are we going to accept lottery odds here?

And the Lala and Lazar part, LOL. Holly water magic.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

This thread has been viewed 612957 times.

Back
Top