Stuvanè
Regular Member
- Messages
- 614
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- 619
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- Location
- Milan
- Ethnic group
- Italian
- Y-DNA haplogroup
- J2
- mtDNA haplogroup
- H1e
If Italy goes on a collision course in Europe and winks more at Orban and Putin, I would have no problem with Italy leaving the EU. I would see more in a smaller EU anyway. Italy is unstable, has a weak economy and a sky-high government debt. Why show solidarity if it is not mutual?
@Northener
The ultimate and original purpose of a State, whatever its structure - democratic or otherwise, or political orientation - is first and foremost to protect the physical and economic security of its inhabitants. They historically surrender a share of their possessions (in the form of taxes) and personal freedom precisely to have those protections extended to the whole community. The moment rulers derogate from these minimal but essential obligations, they put themselves in a position to be 1) challenged; 2) overthrown. In concrete terms, this means that first one must look after one's own internal interests, then possibly consider external aid to third parties.
If the EU is so ideologically conditioned as to distort this mechanism for the internal safeguarding and survival of States, jeopardising the economies of member states in order to prove itself more royal than the king in fighting Putin, don't expect a predictable beating. Never have we seen such crassness and international political unpreparedness. Putin may be committing crimes as if there were no tomorrow, but the palm for cluelessness in dealing with him is all in the West, which - between sanctions and uncritical Atlanticism - behaves like the cuckolded husband who castrates himself to spite his wife. Decisions dictated by stupidity and/or bad faith that certainly don't increase the fanclub of the EU and now the fear of the Eurocrats in the face of a minimum of critical voices is such that Meloni is already on the cross without having yet won the elections (if she ever wins them, it is not certain: for many of us - and I am among those - she is even too accommodating with certain international junk).
You say that you would not regret Italy's exit from the European Union because of its economic and political instability. Many Italians do too. But beyond the fact that it was one of the founding countries and its exit in this regard would be a not insignificant damage to its image and politics, I want to remind you that the Italians - unlike many other countries - have never been proposed a referendum on joining the Eurozone, someone else decided in our place, without asking us (and our entry into the Eurozone and all the subsequent measures that have gradually reduced our sovereignty have always had the endorsement and signature of your Italian and European left-wing political friends, let's not get too far off track).
Seeing then the words EU and solidarity in the same sentence are things that make my abs come back in laughter, so sesquipedal is this bullshit. Explain to me: is solidarity the solidarity of March two years ago, when we had become the only pests in the EU, and we were being pointed at and chased away as untors by Germany, France, Belgium..., when in the same countries Covid had already become an important guest? Or is it the more recent one of certain countries that, faced with the problem of gas speculation, oppose a cap on its price that has become stellar because it suits them? Where is that famous gas exchange where such nice little games are played? Help me, you who are informed....
Rest assured that if there is one place where nothing is ever given for nothing, it is Europe. I'll have you know that until 2020 Italy was one of the top 4 net contributors to the European shack: in practice we were paying out more money than the EU was giving back, and only with the PNRR and the related post-covid restructuring funds could the trend reverse, but I'm waiting to see the facts. If some countries give the impression that they want to help Italy, they certainly do not do so out of genuine charity and a sense of altruism. If other countries have not yet let us go or kicked us out of the EU, it is because the Italian boot is still too important from a historical and geopolitical point of view. Letting it collapse completely is not advantageous at the moment. But keeping it in a condition of political and economic subalternity is, on the other hand, a great pleasure: a space (or rather a closet) where illegal or unregulated migratory waves can swarm (cheap labour and a political reservoir of votes for the left), a space of first-rate manufacturing industries waiting to be put in trouble by inept rulers or sold to the highest foreign bidder, an unparalleled private savings waiting to be plundered with the most imaginative taxation. In essence - with all our objective flaws - we are still an appetising cash cow.
Do now some reflecting on why certain populisms that so terrify you ripen here and there, and every now and then look for some source other than the usual chatter of Letta, the PD and company singer