torzio
Regular Member
- Messages
- 3,976
- Reaction score
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- 113
- Location
- Eastern Australia
- Ethnic group
- North East Italian
- Y-DNA haplogroup
- T1a2 - SK1480
- mtDNA haplogroup
- H95a
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Plasari's theory is way more plausible than it being the island Rab. There's also a theory that places it in southern Dalmatia. You're trash talking (as usual) about him because you don't like the conclusions. s.
We have samples from two tested sites from Albania, one is from the North West Shkodra where we got that Proto-Illyrian I8471 Cetina/Dinaric guy from and the very east Albanian Cinamak, Kukes samples, of which one is EBA Balkan Yamnayan with similar auDNA to other early Yamnayan dispersals as in Bulgaria and co.In regards to Southern Arc aDNA records of Albania:
ID I8471 1880-1695 calBCE J2b-L283>>Z615>Z597 (Z609+, Z628+, FT92472-, Z40053-, CTS12554-) Shkrel (Shkodër), Albania (Cetina/Dinaric)
ID I17633 700-400 BCE J2b-L283>? (Z589+, Z622+, Y3781 Çinamak (Kukës), Albania
ID I16253 658-403 calBCE J2b-L283>>Z615>Z597>Z638>Z1297>Z1295>Y21878>CTS11100>Y37121 (Z1298+, Y37818+, Y106264+, FT29003-, FT34408-, Y110968-, F3754-) Çinamak (Kukës), Albania
ID I16254 600-400 BCE J2b-L283>? (coverage too low: Z2512/CTS5382+, S23613/Z2521+, FT92472-, CTS12554-) Çinamak (Kukës), Albania
ID I14690 1700-400 BCE R1b-Z2103>CTS1450 Çinamak (Kukës), Albania
ID I16251 500-50 BCE R1b-Z2103? Çinamak (Kukës), Albania
ID I14689 2663-2472 calBCE R1b-PF7562? (low coverage: L23-) Çinamak (Kukës), Albania (Balkan Yamnayan)
ID I14688 600-400 BCE R1b-PF7562 Çinamak (Kukës), Albania
Ulanci carried R-CTS7556, and Ulanci group had some direct parallels to Paracin and Brnjica groups. It's obvious Central Balkans became a refugium for R-Z2103 already based on N.Macedonian results.
Southern Albania also was run by Z2103, it was the Brygian territory, and the Matt painted pottery, which also influenced Ulanci originates there.
LBA saw arrival of some Gava people (before they would form the Psenicevo and related cultures in EIA), then the Psenicevo itself. Latest was the arrival of Illyrians from the West, who have nothing to do with the original Dardanians.
Basically Illyrians are as Dardanian as British are derived of the Bretons. But they formed the ruling class and according to reports even ruled the indigenous Dardanians with an iron fist.
Whilst I am certain to agree based on aDNA records that very early Proto-Albanians are highly likely descendants of some Central Balkan MBA nest spanning from the North to the South (likely similar to ancient Greeks, we got those Mycenean PF7562 samples too didn't we?), it is very much wrong to equate them with their Western actual core Illyrian neighbors. THESE ULANCI OFFSHOOTS HAVE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH PROTO-ILLYRIAN CETINA/DINARIC.
Look at the BA/IA North Macedonian results from largely Paeonian cemetries and what the archeology suggests about these sites, esp. the MBA/LBA Ulanci group and their of shoots rich in R1b-Z2103 (likely a PF7562 minority too).
Cinamak is to the very east of Albania bordering these clearly distinct archeological complexes and R1b-Z2103 starts to appear (in only two samples, and PF7562 in solely one IA sample). Is this a coincidence? Clearly not.
Mirditors score 50% Illyrian, Himariotes around 20%.
Whilst I am certain to agree based on aDNA records that very early Proto-Albanians are highly likely descendants of some Central Balkan MBA nest spanning from the North to the South (likely similar to ancient Greeks, we got those Mycenean PF7562 samples too didn't we?), it is very much wrong to equate them with their Western actual core Illyrian neighbors. THESE ULANCI OFFSHOOTS HAVE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH PROTO-ILLYRIAN CETINA/DINARIC.
Look at the BA/IA North Macedonian results from largely Paeonian cemetries and what the archeology suggests about these sites, esp. the MBA/LBA Ulanci group and their of shoots rich in R1b-Z2103 (likely a PF7562 minority too).
Cinamak is to the very east of Albania bordering these clearly distinct archeological complexes and R1b-Z2103 starts to appear (in only two samples, and PF7562 in solely one IA sample). Is this a coincidence? Clearly not.
I13834 from Korca is also a LBA or IA, I'm 100% confident, and he is R-PF7563.
Wrong. Plasari deserves to be trash talked for misleading people and totally forcing disjointed unconnected things together to force a conclusion which doesnt exist
2) From the central and east Balkans,I combined BGR_KapitanAndreevo_IA:I20186, MKD_Skopje_Anc:I10379 and Serbia_Viminacium:R9674___AD_134 as one average, as a proxy for the Dardanian-Thracian population. This mixture works super well for Romanians, central Balkans and us(Albanians). I suspect the Viminacium represents a Moesian proxy, so mixing all these three points together does seem to give a good proxy for a population living south-east of Nish.
You are utterly wrong. R9674 is a Germanic-Sarmatian sample from Viminacium and it has nothing at all to do with Naissus.
Naissus vs. Viminacium (Germanic-Sarmatian) vs. Cinamak comparison:
Just stop posting such models and comments about radiocarbon dating being wrong (do you even know what radiocarbon dating is?)
"Paleo-Revenge" removed all Cinamak samples and substituted them in an utterly dubious model which makes no sense in any way with random and irrelevant ones.
I13834/1235; Tumulus 2 , grave 1? (petrous bone), genetically male, adult. His age is estimated to be over 40 years old. The skeleton is well presented. The skeleton most likely derives from Tumulus 2, grave 1. The grave was oriented NE-SW, with the inhumation in a supine extended position. The radiocarbon date obtained from this individual was **1402-1439 calCE** (515±20 BP, PSUAMS-5942)
I13839 is not a ... Greek. This isn't a Greek profile:
This model is so ludicrous that he models Albanians from Kukes in 1400-1700 as having 34.4% (!!!!!) ancestry from this source:
"Romanized Illyrians" which Albanians have origins from... Croatia_Novo_selo_Bunje:R3547___AD_571 and Croatia_Zadar_Hypo_banka:R3745___AD_72 from Croatia.
There is also IA Montenegrin samples that are magically Slavic. You speak like you can vouch for certain someone did not F up. If you want to believe there were people 600 years ago carrying BA genetics intact and not related to you at all, that's your problem. BTW, who gets buried in a Timulus in 1400 AD?
I did not say Greek, as in ancient or modern Greek. I meant it in linguistic aspect. This individual is a hodge podge of MKD, Thracian, Illyrian, Slavic and Levant IA, it is ethnically nothing.
I want to point out. I do not believe the early Albanians were heavy in MENA admixture. I think this mixture was picked up in Albania. The non-Slavic population in Albania was like that of Byzantine Croatia, Rome imperial like, MENA heavy. Another reason why Illyrian continuity can't work. Genetically the region nuked. Look at I14622 and I3839.
In the end, I did not chose it out of the blue, it was consistently picked up as a signal from my individual Albanian samples, it's a component of early Albanians. My model works extremely well, it captures the Romanian pre-Slavic substrate well too, it's pretty much a pan-Balkan model. The fit is mighty good as well.
Setting aside the fact of how ludicrous Paleo-Revenge is when he says that Albanians can only be related to Illyrians if their G25 aren't correct or his combination of utterly irrelevant samples to
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