Where does the Albanian language come from? [VIDEO]

[PaleoRevenge]

On the other forum you always supported what Riverman and co. said which is that "Posusje" might J-L283 but Cetina isn't. Don't make me get all your comments and "likes" towards Riverman. When Trojet came forward and said the same thing as Bruzmi (Trojet had actually said the same thing a few years earlier), you stopped commenting, but let's review one of your earlier posts:


https://anthrogenica.com/showthread...rigin-of-E-V13&p=854952&viewfull=1#post854952 once more you get an explanation (before the SA publication) that there's just 1 J-L283 sample from MBA Albania and this is evidence for Cetina Proto-Illyrians before Glasinac-Mati in Albania.

You knew that there is just one sample because another user told you and he learned about it from Bruzmi. So what did you do with this information? You straight up lied that there are "more Bronze Age J-L283 samples from multiple sites in Albania" and that someone is hiding this information. You did so in order to throw mud against the people who gave you the information (pa pike burrnie) Therefore you can stay here, have a chat with Paleo-Revenge (lol) and wait for those who do serious work to post results on the other forum.

For Thracians, keep taking comments out of context to make fake points, you're doing great. The point is that Proto-Thracians weren't E-V13 which is what was claimed by the entire group that you support.

PS It's really funny how about the J-L283 in Peloponnese you just went on anthrogenica and basically copy/pasted Bruzmi's response here. Thank you for spreading around the work of people who aren't on eupedia. Good job!

Someone is very proud of himself. Can mount give Bruzmi/Excine some credit here. How badly poor Excine wants to come out and say hey I proposed that, it's meee. o pidh, po pikon gjithandej.

 

[kl1ki]

Paleo-Revenge is so pathetic that he's making up fantasies. You're so steeped in conspiracy theories that you can't even deal with reality. I have another background in fora than Bruzmi and all the older people here know it. Deal with it and stop connecting me to other people. You're not going to get approval by anyone and most Albanians know exactly who you are and what you're doing here.

@Pashai i Janines don't call him Vlach. He's a Bulgarian from the Korca villages, he's I2a-Y3120 and his whole purpose is known to everyone. He's not fooling anyone.

His fantasies about "merciful" E-V13 vs. "terminator" I2a are his political fantasies:

There's nothing that you can do to change reality.

https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/J-PH4679/

PH4679 has a phylogeny which includes Albanians in all subclades since the Late Bronze Age and this isn't going away.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

Paleo-Revenge is so pathetic that he's making up fantasies. You're so steeped in conspiracy theories that you can't even deal with reality. I have another background in fora than Bruzmi and all the older people here know it. Deal with it and stop connecting me to other people. You're not going to get approval by anyone and most Albanians know exactly who you are and what you're doing here.

Brumi please. You're not worried someone ratted you out?
There is no doubt you're all a team and work together, and have been for a while, while posting here as independent "random" members. It is also clear you're an inbred hillbilly, and those Kelmendas buddies of yours who also happen to be part of rrenjet are probably your cousins. Bring your tribesman Dushfaggy back here, lets see if he can talk smack without some English bunbuddy protecting his fragile low IQ. Tell him, I want to hear him rap some of his Dillyrious lyrics.

@Pashai i Janines don't call him Vlach. He's a Bulgarian from the Korca villages, he's I2a-Y3120 and his whole purpose is known to everyone. He's not fooling anyone.

I am Albanian and not inbred, which makes me a better Albanian than you. That strikes a nerve, and will forever strike a nerve with your inferior cowardly tribe.

BTW How's entertain doing? Reincarnated as a Vlach I heard? A whole team of asocial degenerates, sock accounts, counterfeit G25s, orchestrated provocations while being sheltered by your buddies in admin position. You and your team are never going get respect, it doesn't matter how this ends. I hope that sinks in, inbred.

His fantasies about "merciful" E-V13 vs. "terminator" I2a are his political fantasies:

It's reality son, J2b is practically non-existent in it's former core homeland. Can you even grasp that? Is that extra inbred chromosome jamming your brain?

There's nothing that you can do to change reality.

https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/J-PH4679/

PH4679 has a phylogeny which includes Albanians in all subclades since the Late Bronze Age and this isn't going away.

What reality? I explained it perfectly, you can't counter argue anything.

 

[Fustan]

Take your meds. You know who you are.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

Twerk that fustan, olivetard.

 

[Pashai Janinës]

Paleo-Revenge is so pathetic that he's making up fantasies. You're so steeped in conspiracy theories that you can't even deal with reality. I have another background in fora than Bruzmi and all the older people here know it. Deal with it and stop connecting me to other people. You're not going to get approval by anyone and most Albanians know exactly who you are and what you're doing here.

@Pashai i Janines don't call him Vlach. He's a Bulgarian from the Korca villages, he's I2a-Y3120 and his whole purpose is known to everyone. He's not fooling anyone.

His fantasies about "merciful" E-V13 vs. "terminator" I2a are his political fantasies:

There's nothing that you can do to change reality.

https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/J-PH4679/

PH4679 has a phylogeny which includes Albanians in all subclades since the Late Bronze Age and this isn't going away.

Ah, atëherë qenka vulgaro-vllah, përzierje e shule me çoban. Qenka si Koçi Xoxe, "teta" Rita apo Xha Pilua, teneqexhinjtë dhe opingarët që Dulla i bëri anëtarë të "birosë" dhe që i masakruan Shqiptarët në 45 vite komunizëm. Ptuhh, rracë e fëlliqur! Nuk mjaftuan 45 vite por na duhet tani të durojmë edhe pordhët e këlyshëve të tyre tani.

 

[epirus1000]

They were originally Latin speakers, Romanized Illyrians, a sedentary population in northern Albania that was eventually absorbed/assimilated into Albanian. Their distribution conforms with the Kruja-Komani culture.

https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threa...m-VIDEO/page27?p=638454&viewfull=1#post638454
https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threa...m-VIDEO/page37?p=639191&viewfull=1#post639191

So you suggest the Illyrians were assimilated to Latin Language and then the Romanized population was assimilated to Albanian Language, while the slavic came in Montenegro and pushed the Albanians to the south.
It is very hard to have one assimilation in one population, imagine having two assimilations consecutively in a matter of few centuries. Its just Illyrians to Albanians, with Cinamak, Velika Gruda, Shkreli and the upcoming DNAs that all confirm that.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

So you suggest the Illyrians were assimilated to Latin Language and then the Romanized population was assimilated to Albanian Language, while the slavic came in Montenegro and pushed the Albanians to the south.

Mostly correct. But I have stated many times here, Albs(the original language bearers) had to have come from central Balkans. R-Z2705 and E-V13 will not be found among Kruja-Komani, and these are the core Albanian haplogroups, with universal representation, Arberesh, assimilated clans in Montengro, Arvanites, and any region where Albanians live. Without these you can't make an Albanian omelette.
I have rolled my dice, it's all comes down to ancient samples to prove it or disprove it.

It is very hard to have one assimilation in one population, imagine having two assimilations consecutively in a matter of few centuries. Its just Illyrians to Albanians, with Cinamak, Velika Gruda, Shkreli and the upcoming DNAs that all confirm that.

Albanians don't start and end with J2b-L283, which is largely a Gheg phenomena. And I am not sure what you mean. Assimilations are everywhere, and common.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

Ah, atëherë qenka vulgaro-vllah, përzierje e shule me çoban. Qenka si Koçi Xoxe, "teta" Rita apo Xha Pilua, teneqexhinjtë dhe opingarët që Dulla i bëri anëtarë të "birosë" dhe që i masakruan Shqiptarët në 45 vite komunizëm. Ptuhh, rracë e fëlliqur! Nuk mjaftuan 45 vite por na duhet tani të durojmë edhe pordhët e këlyshëve të tyre tani.

Illyrian fiction is pure communism, created by communists and cherished by proles, the lowest of the low, especially some inbred tribes living in cliffs. Go to youtube, watch any Albanian news channels, we the most ancient, Albanian the engine of Indo-European languages, Jesus wore a plis, Etruscans were really Albanians. This is the mainstream Albanian channels, all run by the former communists party politburo, now media moguls and oligarchs. Communists are oppressing your Illyrian theory? You sure about that?

I already told you, you're too dumb to be here, some peahead parroting debunked communists story tales, while accusing the opposition of being communists. You ought to do a DNA test, you might end up being related to the rrenjet cliff dwellers, the philosophers of "muhh Illyrianism n shieet".

 

[epirus1000]

Mostly correct. But I have stated many times here, Albs(the original language bearers) had to have come from central Balkans. R-Z2705 and E-V13 will not be found among Kruja-Komani, and these are the core Albanian haplogroups, with universal representation, Arberesh, assimilated clans in Montengro, Arvanites, and any region where Albanians live. Without these you can't make an Albanian omelette.
I have rolled my dice, it's all comes down to ancient samples to prove it or disprove it.




Albanians don't start and end with J2b-L283, which is largely a Gheg phenomena. And I am not sure what you mean. Assimilations are everywhere, and common.

No, no, no, double assimilation is not everywhere. J2b is just 3.7% of Croatia. And just 2.7% in South Croatia.

WHY?

There is basically no assimilation by slavs. It's a just a J2b haplogroup (ethnic) cleansing by wars or other measures. Very few survived. The same in Montenegro. So, no double assimilation in Croatia and in Montenegro. Slavs couldn't do the same in the Arberia lands, so the J2b survived.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

No, no, no, double assimilation is not everywhere. J2b is just 3.7% of Croatia. And just 2.7% in South Croatia.

WHY?

There is basically no assimilation by slavs. It's a just a J2b haplogroup (ethnic) cleansing by wars or other measures. Very few survived. The same in Montenegro. So, no double assimilation in Croatia and in Montenegro. Slavs couldn't do the same in the Arberia lands, so the J2b survived.

I think you are misunderstanding the entire hypothesis. This debate goes back to page 100, it's best to read all the view points than ask me what exactly does not make sense or you don't agree with.

 

[D.L.M]

How do you know those Thracians are exactly from Kosovo/Dardania? They could very likely be from somewhere else.
And how do you know that those Thracian proto-Albanians are not actually Dacians?

Not a rhetorical question.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

How do you know those Thracians are exactly from Kosovo/Dardania? They could very likely be from somewhere else.
And how do you know that those Thracian proto-Albanians are not actually Dacians?

Not a rhetorical question.

Is this about the calc values or just the theory in general?

On the calc, the so called Dardani cluster rests on Skopje I10379, since then I have read papers on non-Glasinac Brnjica culture, the Brnjica survivors were likely in autosomal the same as Triballi, which would explain the Babadag individual being so similar. And in the Serbian paper(waiting in peer review line) there are lot's of additional E-V13 that plot similar to I10379 and I18832, so what I am calling Dardani might very well be Triballi/Moesia genetic profile. The Daco-Thracian cline runs just above the modern Albanian cluster. It will be comical when we do get actual Dacians, and they will plot parallel with Albanian just slightly more north (think of the Himera E-V13s). The same will apply to northern Hellenic groups which will plot just westof modern Albs, on the modern Italian cline. It will be entertaining to watch the meltdown. You know I would never imply cluster equals proof of kinship, but for those that employ such tactics, watching it blow in their face will be fun.

If you meant the theory in general. I don't see how one can avoid the Bessi culture, the only candidate for non-latinised, non-hellenised hub for E-V13 and R-Z2103.
Illyrian burial rights went extinct in Albania, thus fully latinized. The only place where Illyrian traditions continued was in eastern Bosnia. If one can demonstrate such a theory, go ahead and make it work.

 

[torzio]

Is this about the calc values or just the theory in general?

On the calc, the so called Dardani cluster rests on Skopje I10379, since then I have read papers on non-Glasinac Brnjica culture, the Brnjica survivors were likely in autosomal the same as Triballi, which would explain the Babadag individual being so similar. And in the Serbian paper(waiting in peer review line) there are lot's of additional E-V13 that plot similar to I10379 and I18832, so what I am calling Dardani might very well be Triballi/Moesia genetic profile. The Daco-Thracian cline runs just above the modern Albanian cluster. It will be comical when we do get actual Dacians, and they will plot parallel with Albanian just slightly more north (think of the Himera E-V13s). The same will apply to northern Hellenic groups which will plot just east of modern Albs, on the modern Italian cline. It will be entertaining to watch the meltdown. You know I would never imply cluster equals proof of kinship, but for those that employ such tactics, watching it blow in their face will be fun.

If you meant the theory in general. I don't see how one can avoid the Bessi culture, the only candidate for non-latinised, non-hellenised hub for E-V13 and R-Z2103.
Illyrian burial rights went extinct in Albania, thus fully latinized. The only place where Illyrian traditions continued was in eastern Bosnia. If one can demonstrate such a theory, go ahead and make it work.

IIRC...Bessi where a tribe on the modern greek -bulgarian border area

While the Thracian Celts continued to be the main element in the resistance to Roman expansion on the Balkans, from this point onwards they are frequently accompanied by other Balkan tribes, notably the Bastarnae, Dardanii, and the Free Thracian tribes (Maidi, Triballi, Denteletes, and Bessi).

In 109 BC a Roman army entered Thrace commanded by Minucius Rufus and, according to Roman sources (Flor. 1.39.5; Liv. Per. 65′a; Frontin Strat. 2. 4’3; Festus Brev 9’2; Eutrop 4.27’3; Amm. Marc. 27.4’10) and an inscription from Delphi (probably raised by Rufus himself), defeated the Scordisci and the Thracian Bessi tribe.

 

[kl1ki]

PaleoRevenge has (as usual) degenerated the debate to conspiracy theories. Old users know who I am so responding to a Yugoslav nationalist like Paleo-Revenge that I am not another person is pointless. He doesn't even realize it but the more he writes nonsense about fake radio-carbon dating, government agencies, fora admins and users who all are conspiring together the more he ridicules himself and shows his true colors. This is all great because it helps everyone understand that this is not a person who is interested in any sort of research, he's here to spread fake news and propaganda about "terminator I2a". It's really pathetic, but it's good that he makes his intentions clear.

The J-L283 clade which I mentioned has a Bronze Age phylogeny and diversity among Albanians since its foundation. It's a fact and can't change, so no one can claim that J-L283 was "absorbed" by Albanians in medieval times.

Phylogeny shows very old links between Albanian ethnogenesis and J-L283 and with R1b-Z2103 it's the only haplogroup which firmly links Albanians and Messapic-speakers. Additionally, some other haplogroups will be part of this link and J-L283 is definitely one of them.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

Listen I was naive and took a lot of you lightly, as some random emotional manchildren. Now I know it's a lot more than that. You are an inbred tribe. You function as a tribe, you chat together through some discord channel and brainstorm how to get people banned, how to shut down speech in so and so forum, etc... This is your tribal understanding western science, form a gang and shut it down.

It explains why last year a lot of yous, who happen to be part of rrenjet (your teammates are open about this on Anthro), were trying to get me banned here. You were used to getting away with it at Anthro where some admin is your benefactor. A degenerate tribe of inbreds, lead by a gay tribal chief, the alleged tough mal-sorry, who conspire like little woman. One Orthodox Albanian taking down a whole malok tribal union. What will the tough malsorry do, ask for Turkish help, conspire behind the shadows? I'm trembling here.

Onlookers like Riverman don't understand your psyche, it took me a year to get a good read. Now I know why your fan girls used to come here and taunted other Alb users for not going along with 3rd world historical fiction, demanding they toe the line. Tribal inbred mentality. Like good tribesman they also have their hierarchy, burnesha Excine/bruzmi. And they attack any Albanian who does not recognize their tribal chief leader. Mystery has been explained, some inbreds applying tribal mentality to natural sciences, behaving and conspiring like criminals.

Now that I am on the same page, the real fun begins.

 

[Pashai Janinës]

Illyrian fiction is pure communism, created by communists and cherished by proles, the lowest of the low, especially some inbred tribes living in cliffs. Go to youtube, watch any Albanian news channels, we the most ancient, Albanian the engine of Indo-European languages, Jesus wore a plis, Etruscans were really Albanians. This is the mainstream Albanian channels, all run by the former communists party politburo, now media moguls and oligarchs. Communists are oppressing your Illyrian theory? You sure about that?

I already told you, you're too dumb to be here, some peahead parroting debunked communists story tales, while accusing the opposition of being communists. You ought to do a DNA test, you might end up being related to the rrenjet cliff dwellers, the philosophers of "muhh Illyrianism n shieet".

Ça po thua o loqe, e lexon veten se çfarë shkruan? Apo e lëshove imagjinatën pa frena. Ik mos na ça karin shumë legen. Rrot kari! Ke hedhur rrënjë këtu. Le nam. Ik ore budalla.
Kush e ka mundësinë le të lajmërojë familjen e këtij trapit.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

I remember Hawk being startled by your personality, it confused him. It had me chuckling, and know I'll explain it to them. I never encountered your type among Kosovars, but as a south Albanian, I've met your likes. This, dear Kosovars, is the Tosk version of we were kangz. But it has a different flavor. It starts with the usual, Albanians the best, Greeks stole my history, Greek man keeps down, emperor this, emperor that yada yada. Here is how he differs from your region. He refuses to speak English because Albanian is the language of the Gods, he is too noble to even acknowledge English, let alone speak it. It is beneath him. He literally is kangz n shiett, and kangz will only speak in the language of kangz. I am not cracking joke here.
That's why he is angry all the time, everyone and everything is insolent to him. Hence why he has a stroke every time he engages people.

It is unfortunate that this midget who fancies himself a God, can only curse in his noble language.

 

[Pashai Janinës]

I remember Hawk being startled by your personality, it confused him. It had me chuckling, and know I'll explain it to them. I never encountered your type among Kosovars, but as a south Albanian, I've met your likes. This, dear Kosovars, is the Tosk version of we were kangz. But it has a different flavor. It starts with the usual, Albanians the best, Greeks stole my history, Greek man keeps down, emperor this, emperor that yada yada. Here is how he differs from your region. He refuses to speak English because Albanian is the language of the Gods, he is too noble to even acknowledge English, let alone speak it. It is beneath him. He literally is kangz n shiett, and kangz will only speak in the language of kangz. I am not cracking joke here.
That's why he is angry all the time, everyone and everything is insolent to him. Hence why he has a stroke every time he engages people.
It is unfortunate that this midget who fancies himself a God, can only curse in his noble language.

Dhe ku i ke lexuar këto gjëra në postimet e mia që mi atribuon mua? Apo futja kot, kur nuk ke argumenta fillon dhe vë në punë fantazinë. Sidoqoftë, ti nuk e ndryshon dot faktin që nuk je Shqiptar. Vazhdo ëndërro për hakmarrje dhe përdridhu si ajo baxhella që të ka bërë kokën duke luajtur edhe kartën e fesë këtu por në fund ti dhe raca jote jeni ata ose më saktë ato që jeni, krijesa të pështira mbeturina të fuqive të huaja.
Ah, me që ra fjala, bëj të fala atij ashkaliut nga Kosova sepse ka humbur si shurra e pulës. Pyete një herë çfarë u bë me atë teorinë iliro-kelte të Arvan Valley. Dhe mos harro ma përshëndet edhe atë sorrën nga Maqedonia. Hajt tani bebush, rri pak dhe fillo qëndis një nga ato përgjigjet e tua zbavitëse. Je bërë si balua, roje natë ditë te kjo temë. Po ik o karagjoz se nuk i merr njeri në konsideratë ëndrrat e tua prej minoritari që tani kërkon të shpallet autokton.

 

[Johane Derite]

Interestingly, Duridanov also seems to have seen a possible link between the name of the Dentheletae and the Albanian word "Dhen". Funnily enough, Jokl's counter argument for the etymology of Dentheletae is the same as Hyllested and Joseph's argument for this Albanian word (i.e. the tamed)