Will Russia Attack Ukraine?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Malaparte

There is a naive tendency among anti-globalist & nationalist elements to imagine that the "enemy of my enemy is my friend." However, Putin is clearly no friend of nationalist parties within Russia, and I expect he will root-out and eradicate the most resolute & noble Ukrainian nationalists, at least in the east. Sad but true.

But viewed objectively, as a man, Putin towers above his contemporaries in the West. His courage, his steady patience (if the current crisis goes back to 2008, he waited nearly 15 years to make his move), his mastery of the issues, his practice of the martial arts. In Putin, the Davos crowd has met a formidable adversary.

As for developments in the West, I expect the traditional left (or what remains of it) and the populist right will eventually ally in opposition to what have become the nakedly tyrannical power moves of the globalists. At least in America, the common people simply do not believe the propaganda anymore, not one iota, and they quietly seethe.

---

I'm all for steering the ship towards a capitalistic system that reigns in the monopolizations and concentrations of wealth in the hands of a few...I think the governments role should be to reign in these extremes and provide a healthy system. Unfortunately you need incorrupt individuals in government and good luck there needs to be complete transparency of money in politics and our judicial system is also a joke when it comes to holding the wealthy accountable... I would consider myself more libertarian and libertine in nature but I'm disgusted with how the right in our country gives so much cord to Racist and Christian Fundamentalist...I don't see any Rational leaders left on the Right they all keep feeding the monsters on the right...both parties are corrupt how do you attract any rational person to either camp? I did not vote for either Democrat or Republican in 2016 and chose a third option sometimes I wish people would do the same...stop being married to one party at all cost...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Malaparte

There is a naive tendency among anti-globalist & nationalist elements to imagine that the "enemy of my enemy is my friend." However, Putin is clearly no friend of nationalist parties within Russia, and I expect he will root-out and eradicate the most resolute & noble Ukrainian nationalists, at least in the east. Sad but true.

But viewed objectively, as a man, Putin towers above his contemporaries in the West. His courage, his steady patience (if the current crisis goes back to 2008, he waited nearly 15 years to make his move), his mastery of the issues, his practice of the martial arts. In Putin, the Davos crowd has met a formidable adversary.

As for developments in the West, I expect the traditional left (or what remains of it) and the populist right will eventually ally in opposition to what have become the nakedly tyrannical power moves of the globalists. At least in America, the common people simply do not believe the propaganda anymore, not one iota, and they quietly seethe.

---

I see you don't really know Europe, you are underestimating some factors, may be Putin wil capture the Ukraine sooner or later. Nevertheless with a population that is very anti the occupation even 150.000 soldiers are by long not enough to occupy the Ukraine in the long run. In meantime Russia will be bankrupt.

The people in the West have seen what the fifth column of the authoritarian populist have said in supporting Putin, also in the attack on the Ukraine. People don't like that and so in the new cold war these populist will be more and more unmasked as what they are the underminers of liberal democracy.

The moderate ones, with support of the common people, are the ones who will defend Europe against tyranny.

Je maintiendrai!

Baudet the extreme right wing defender of Putin.

Public Reactions to Ukraine debate: "Baudet is a clown who denies his country"

https://www.ad.nl/opinie/reacties-op...hent~adf29527/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Archetype0ne

Its funny when safe space bunnies who never lived under communism defend war crimes on inocent civilians, as if Russian soldiers have any right to be in Ukraine.

Notice that in my post I did not call anyone by name, but the fascist clearly know who they are.
Riverman if you were from Czech republic you would understand, but you're from Austria. No one who faced communism wants to go back to that shithole system, not with fascist tendencies added to it.

---

It's clear that Poland, the Czech Republic, the Baltic countries, and other former eastern bloc states, don't want to live under the Russian Regime. Poles and other Eastern Europeans have a lot of reasons for disliking Russia (as a country). And Russia and Albania have “frozen” and bad relations, because of Russian politics in Balkan. With that being said, the situation in Ukraine is a bit different since the country is divided, roughly half of Ukrainians identify with Russia and the other half want nothing to do with Russia and identify with the West. Certainly, Ukraine has the right to exist, thus the Russian invasion isn't really justifiable.


Anyway, keep in mind, we're dealing with Propaganda from both sides, from Russia and Ukraine. According to Dail Mail, the Russian state-owned media outlet RT will no longer be available on Sky TV, Facebook, YouTube blocked access and channels of RT, thus 'Putin's propaganda machine' would be 'severely restricted'. So, Western people won't be overexposed to Russian propaganda. Right now we can't really know what's going on in Ukraine. Our media isn't neutral to inform us entirely with objective pieces of information. Pro Ukrainian and pro-Russian separatist groups have been in conflict for about eight years in the Donbas region. There have been human rights abuses on both sides. If we want to see the whole picture, understand cause and effect, we should try not to go by our emotions and be one-sided here, (although it's difficult when you see all the suffering civilians). Therefore, we have to look at the concerns and security interests of the Kremlin, whether the NATO/West views the security concerns of Russia warrant or not, is another story.


From the Guardian.

Quote:

---

Speaking at the Munich Security Conference, Stoltenberg said: “If the Kremlin’s aim is to have less Nato on its borders, it will only get more Nato.

---

https://www.theguardian.com/world/li...086f7273b88f13

That's an arrogant, and provocative reaction from the secretary general of NATO. Putin said, that his country doesn't want Ukraine to become a place for US missile bases. NATO should've taken Russia seriously.


Furthermore, it's not helpful to blindly blast people who want an objective analysis of this Ukraine war to be pro-Russian shills or trolls who defend the invasion. While Russia is responsible for the invasion, there is however no denying that the West/Nato does bear part of the blame for this crisis.



And remember, "The first casualty of war is truth."

I really don't want to argue politics on Eupedia. Hence the humanitarian comments before is all that I will leave.

But be not mistaken, if you think this is about some security concerns for the Russia Federation, and not a fear of a North/South Korea style divergence in quality of life between Ukrainian citizens and Russian citizens endangering the Russian oligarchs then you have barely scratched the surface, in a not so shallow pond.

130 Million Russians, by number the most numerous people in Europe(albeit some of them fall in Asia). The Russian people are here to stay and be relevant no matter what government represents them. The ones feeling the heat are the oligarchs and autocrats.

One just had to see the progress Ukraine made in infrastructure since 2014 to see what the real concern is and why their cities are being razed to the ground.

Also you are misquoting Stoltenberg... I heard the speech live. You better read the whole paragraph and catch the context. He was saying if by threatening to invade Ukraine Hitler.. I mean Putin... thinks he will have less NATO on his borders, he will actually have more. And that is a cold hard fact. Even if he succeeds he would have 2-3 more NATO members on his borders.

Anyways, may God have mercy on the innocents. And the fire burn hot for the wicked.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Archetype0ne

I really don't want to argue politics on Eupedia. Hence the humanitarian comments before is all that I will leave.

But be not mistaken, if you think this is about some security concerns for the Russia Federation, and not a fear of a North/South Korea style divergence in quality of life between Ukrainian citizens and Russian citizens endangering the Russian oligarchs then you have barely scratched the surface, in a not so shallow pond.

130 Million Russians, by number the most numerous people in Europe(albeit some of them fall in Asia). The Russian people are here to stay and be relevant no matter what government represents them. The ones feeling the heat are the oligarchs and autocrats.

One just had to see the progress Ukraine made in infrastructure since 2014 to see what the real concern is and why their cities are being razed to the ground.

Also you are misquoting Stoltenberg... I heard the speech live. You better read the whole paragraph and catch the context. He was saying if by threatening to invade Ukraine Hitler.. I mean Putin... thinks he will have less NATO on his borders, he will actually have more. And that is a cold hard fact. Even if he succeeds he would have 2-3 more NATO members on his borders.

Anyways, may God have mercy on the innocents. And the fire burn hot for the wicked.

---

I just want to know the real reasons behind this war and whether the security concerns of Russia are valid or not. To me, things aren't that crystal clear when it comes to this crisis. Hence, I don't shy away to look at assessments from people, such as Peter Hitches, who have a different view on this crisis. Keep in mind distrusting the narratives of our media and politicians does not equal supporting Russia. As I said Ukraine has the right to exist. Quite frankly, in the West, we don't know really much about Ukraine, the government, and the politicians there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Northener

I see you don't really know Europe, you are underestimating some factors, may be Putin wil capture the Ukraine sooner or later. Nevertheless with a population that is very anti the occupation even 150.000 soldiers are by long not enough to occupy the Ukraine in the long run. In meantime Russia will be bankrupt.

---

There is a chance there will be a negotiated settlement in a few days. If not, I expect the Russians to prevail in the eastern part of the country, and though they will seek to spare ordinary Ukrainians, they will take ruthless measures against the most ardent nationalists. I don't think the Russians will try to subdue the western half, for several reasons, not least of which is the probable high cost in money and lives.

In essence, there are 3 wars being fought simultaneously. The first war is the armed conflict, which Russia is winning. The second war is that of media propaganda, which the West is (easily) winning. The third war is economic, in which the West has already played its cards. Russia + China have yet to play theirs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Northener

The people in the West have seen what the fifth column of the authoritarian populist have said in supporting Putin, also in the attack on the Ukraine. People don't like that and so in the new cold war these populist will be more and more unmasked as what they are the underminers of liberal democracy.

The moderate ones, with support of the common people, are the ones who will defend Europe against tyranny.

---

Oh how they speak of defending against tyranny! Oh how they accuse the populists of authoritarianism!

And in the very same breath they do this --->>>

Information on possible criminal law limits on freedom of expression in relation to the situation in Ukraine

Feb 26, 2022

Brno - The Supreme Public Prosecutor's Office considers it necessary to inform citizens that the current situation associated with the Russian Federation's attack on Ukraine may have implications for their freedom of expression.

Freedom of expression is enshrined at the constitutional level in Article 17 of the Charter of Fundamental Rights and Freedoms. Everyone has the right to express their views in any way they see fit. But freedom of speech also has its limits in a democratic state governed by the rule of law.

If someone publicly (including demonstrations, the Internet or social networks) agreed (accepted or supported the Russian Federation's attacks on Ukraine) or expressed support or praised the leaders of the Russian Federation in this regard, they could also face criminal liability under certain conditions. for the criminal offense of approving a criminal offense pursuant to Section 365 of the Criminal Code, or for the criminal offense of denying, questioning, approving and justifying genocide pursuant to Section 405 of the Criminal Code.

The Supreme Public Prosecutor's Office appeals to all persons not to resort to public speeches in excess of the established constitutional and legal restrictions in these difficult times.

https://verejnazaloba.cz/nsz/informa...i-na-ukrajine/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Malaparte

Oh how they speak of defending against tyranny! Oh how they accuse the populists of authoritarianism!

And in the very same breath they do this --->>>

Information on possible criminal law limits on freedom of expression in relation to the situation in Ukraine

Feb 26, 2022

Brno - The Supreme Public Prosecutor's Office considers it necessary to inform citizens that the current situation associated with the Russian Federation's attack on Ukraine may have implications for their freedom of expression.

Freedom of expression is enshrined at the constitutional level in Article 17 of the Charter of Fundamental Rights and Freedoms. Everyone has the right to express their views in any way they see fit. But freedom of speech also has its limits in a democratic state governed by the rule of law.

If someone publicly (including demonstrations, the Internet or social networks) agreed (accepted or supported the Russian Federation's attacks on Ukraine) or expressed support or praised the leaders of the Russian Federation in this regard, they could also face criminal liability under certain conditions. for the criminal offense of approving a criminal offense pursuant to Section 365 of the Criminal Code, or for the criminal offense of denying, questioning, approving and justifying genocide pursuant to Section 405 of the Criminal Code.

The Supreme Public Prosecutor's Office appeals to all persons not to resort to public speeches in excess of the established constitutional and legal restrictions in these difficult times.

https://verejnazaloba.cz/nsz/informa...i-na-ukrajine/

---

Punishment for collaboration with the attacker is not unusual.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Northener

Punishment for collaboration with the attacker is not unusual.

---

Just as we were punished for collaborating with the virus

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Malaparte

Just as we were punished for collaborating with the virus

---

Where are the Russian anti war demonstrators that were arrested by man in black and sent of in black cars?


Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bicicleur 2

I'd like to see those drones.
IMO you can't launch rockets from a drone.
The only one who does such things is James Bond.

---

Yes you can, you certainly can, what do you think the drones are carrying? These particular drones are very simple, small, reliable (propeller driven) and deadly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Archetype0ne

I really don't want to argue politics on Eupedia.

---

I understand that. Talking about politics can even break up families and destroy friendships. Moreover, it's quite difficult to have an in-depth, respectful discussion of political issues while online. Written posts can be easily misinterpreted. Plus, some people take it personally if you disagree with certain politics. That said Ukraine war/ Russian invasion is a hot topic and everywhere. So one can't resist joining the conversation here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Malaparte

The second war is that of media propaganda, which the West is (easily) winning.

---

Guerilla propaganda? Time magazine cover from 1995 projected on US embassy in Moscow

https://youtu.be/F7shbETVVxQ

the original cover =

http://content.time.com/time/covers/...950911,00.html

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Malaparte

Just as we were punished for collaborating with the virus

---

What a stupid statement.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vallicanus

What a stupid statement.

---

Indeed.

And this what free press means in Putin's Russia:

https://cpj.org/2022/03/russia-block...-media-access/

^^^ Also Russia will punish Russian citizens who "spread false news about the war in Ukraine" with even up to 15 years imprisonment.

=====

Ukrainian counteroffensive north of Kiev has started and is very successful. It looks like Russian 36th and 41st Armies will be destroyed.

And these are the Ukrainian demands in peace talks:

"Ukrainian information sources report that the Office of President Zelensky will require the following conditions:

- the end of hostilities, the withdrawal of Russian troops;

- return of territories (Crimea and Donbas);

- reparations (payments by Russia to Ukraine over 25 years in the amount of $ 500 billion);

- also full accusation of the Russians of the genocide

Author's signature"

​Do you think the Russians will accept these conditions?

and after that Ukraine will grown, Poland not really, there is no good solution

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tomenable

And these are the Ukrainian demands in peace talks:

"Ukrainian information sources report that the Office of President Zelensky will require the following conditions:

- the end of hostilities, the withdrawal of Russian troops;

- return of territories (Crimea and Donbas);

- reparations (payments by Russia to Ukraine over 25 years in the amount of $ 500 billion);

- also full accusation of the Russians of the genocide

Author's signature"

​Do you think the Russians will accept these conditions?

---

If that's what they really demanded in the recent negotiations, I don't know if its real and actually doubt it, this just shows that the Selenski regime would be completely irresponsible and doesn't care for human life or the Ukrainian people. It just wants a total war with Russia to destabilise the region. Again, if this is real, what I doubt, it would be completely insane and being just a proof for the provocative nature of this regime which wanted a war with Russia, deliberately.

Where do you have that from?

Also, if that would be the "style" of the Selenski regime in the negotiations with the Russians in the past, I don't wonder any more why Putin made that decision, as bad as it was, nevertheless. I just hope this is a fake and they are not the lunatic warmongers they appear to be. Unbelievable.

That's like Germany coming to the negotiations in 1918 and demanding in peace negotiations half of France. Are they out of their mind? They just want a dirty war to the bitter end and no peace, that much is clear by now.

Edit: I just needed to calm down after having read this...
Let's hope they talk real in the actual talks and don't hold up such insance positions to the bitter end, because if they do, the end can be just bitter, even if they win this war.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tomenable

And these are the Ukrainian demands in peace talks:

"Ukrainian information sources report that the Office of President Zelensky will require the following conditions:

- the end of hostilities, the withdrawal of Russian troops;

- return of territories (Crimea and Donbas);

- reparations (payments by Russia to Ukraine over 25 years in the amount of $ 500 billion);

- also full accusation of the Russians of the genocide

Author's signature"

​Do you think the Russians will accept these conditions?

---

No, but who the heck enters a negotiation with your bottom-line offer???

Honestly, I wonder if some of the people posting here have any business experience, or even any real-world experience whatsoever, or are just academics or are paid disinformation agents or t-rolls.

Let's say my client wants to sell his complex, and given market conditions it probably might bring around 22 million dollars. Does he put it on the market for 22 million? Obviously not. He puts it on the market for a higher price so he has room for negotiation.

How Putin meddled in Ukrainian elections - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4z6nlFaeFf0#t=20m09s

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Riverman

Where do you have that from?

---

^ It was posted on a Polish forum but no link to the source was provided.

But here is the original text (the one I posted above is Google translation):

Украинские информационные источники сообщают , что Офис Президента Зеленского будет требовать следующих условий :


� завершение боевых действий , вывод войск РФ ;


� возвращение территорий ( Крым ЛДНР ) ;


� репарации ( выплаты России в адрес Украины на протяжении 25 лет суммы в 500 млрд $ ) ;


� также полное обвинение россиян в геноциде


Подпись автора

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tomenable

And these are the Ukrainian demands in peace talks:

"Ukrainian information sources report that the Office of President Zelensky will require the following conditions:

- the end of hostilities, the withdrawal of Russian troops;

- return of territories (Crimea and Donbas);

- reparations (payments by Russia to Ukraine over 25 years in the amount of $ 500 billion);

- also full accusation of the Russians of the genocide

Author's signature"

​Do you think the Russians will accept these conditions?

---

no, and Zelensky knows that

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tomenable

^ It was posted on a Polish forum but no link to the source was provided.

But here is the original text (the one I posted above is Google translation):

Украинские информационные источники сообщают , что Офис Президента Зеленского будет требовать следующих условий :


� завершение боевых действий , вывод войск РФ ;


� возвращение территорий ( Крым ЛДНР ) ;


� репарации ( выплаты России в адрес Украины на протяжении 25 лет суммы в 500 млрд $ ) ;


� также полное обвинение россиян в геноциде


Подпись автора

---

Ok, so probably its fake.

@Angela: Of course I know how negotiations being led and would have almost wrote the same, but that's not like trying to sell a house worth 100.000 bucks for 10.000.000. Its absurd even from that tactical perspective and can be only considered a provocation and insult.