Angela
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- Italian
Let's take a look at 5 of the 6 samples. (I don't seem to have ETR016)
These people are mostly C6, with only one sample being C5, and the other being a North African-mixed outlier.
Maybe if this study bothered to examine the genetic variation of the so-called Imperial cluster, they would see that C6 was present in the Iron age. Two even matches close to R437, for God sake!
Distance to: C.Italy_Imperial:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_262-424CE:TAQ021 3.65334094 C6_Iron_Age_Mediterranean:R437_(Latin_Prenestini_Tribe)_Palestrina_Selicata 4.97456531 C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R52_Villa_Magna 5.18260552 C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R131_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis 5.70495399 C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R56_Villa_Magna 6.04666024 C6_Late_Antiquity_Mediterranean:R35_Celio 6.28720129 C5_Late_Antiquity_Eastern_Mediterranean:R122_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia 6.57902728 C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R59_Villa_Magna 6.65725920 C6_Late_Antiquity_Mediterranean:R107_Crypta_Balbi 6.71589160 C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R1290_Villa_Magna 6.98328003 C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R49_Centocelle_Necropolis 7.02547507 C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R65_Villa_Magna 7.26534239 C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R58_Villa_Magna 7.33377802 C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R113_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis 7.65644173 C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R836_Civitanova_Marche 7.96656764 C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R973_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti 8.01634580 C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R57_Villa_Magna 8.20192660 C6_Late_Antiquity_Mediterranean:R117_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia 8.33453058 C6_Late_Antiquity_Mediterranean:R118_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia 8.54786523 C5_Late_Antiquity_Eastern_Mediterranean:R32_Mausole_di_Augusto 8.69293966 C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R137_Marcellino_&_Pietro 8.70378653 C5_Late_Antiquity_Eastern_Mediterranean:R30_Mausole_di_Augusto 8.72009174 C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R969_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti 8.73635508 C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R53_Villa_Magna 8.78846972 C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R47_Centocelle_Necropolis 8.91677072 C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R1283_Cancelleria
Distance to: C.Italy_Imperial:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_89-236CE:TAQ020 4.22571887 C6_Late_Antiquity_Mediterranean:R36_Celio 4.31196011 C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R111_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis 5.71508530 C6_Late_Antiquity_Mediterranean:R120_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia 6.04187885 C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R1283_Cancelleria 6.30849427 C6_Late_Antiquity_Mediterranean:R118_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia 6.36097477 C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R835_Civitanova_Marche 6.41825521 C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R1287_Cancelleria 6.51541250 C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R970_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti 6.83435440 C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R113_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis 6.93213531 C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R1285_Cancelleria 7.00451997 C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R969_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti 7.12097606 C6_Late_Antiquity_Mediterranean:R121_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia 7.76882230 C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R836_Civitanova_Marche 8.44433538 C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R52_Villa_Magna 8.45839819 C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R1549_Monterotondo 8.71862374 C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R60_Villa_Magna 8.80415243 C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R1290_Villa_Magna 9.27257785 C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R973_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti 9.40364291 C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R131_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis 9.58771610 C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R54_Villa_Magna 9.69825758 C7_Iron_Age_European:R1_(Protovillanovan)_Martinsicuro 9.83711340 C5_Late_Antiquity_Eastern_Mediterranean:R122_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia 9.94152403 C6_Late_Antiquity_Mediterranean:R117_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia 10.02607600 C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R56_Villa_Magna 10.34189054 C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R49_Centocelle_Necropolis
Distance to: C.Italy_Imperial:Marsilianad'Albegna(Grosseto_Tuscany)_400-530CE:MAS003 7.72047278 C3_Iron_Age_N_African/Euro-Mix:R475_(Etruscan)_Civitavecchia 8.71365021 C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R52_Villa_Magna 8.89276672 C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R1287_Cancelleria 9.07572587 C6_Late_Antiquity_Mediterranean:R118_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia 9.62520130 C6_Late_Antiquity_Mediterranean:R120_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia 9.93343344 C6_Iron_Age_Mediterranean:R437_(Latin_Prenestini_Tribe)_Palestrina_Selicata 10.17619772 C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R1283_Cancelleria 10.30015048 C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R113_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis 10.30794354 C6_Late_Antiquity_Mediterranean:R35_Celio 10.45892442 C5_Late_Antiquity_Eastern_Mediterranean:R122_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia 10.58182876 C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R835_Civitanova_Marche 10.58912650 C3_Imperial_North_African:R80_Viale_Rossini_Necropolis 10.72016791 C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R1285_Cancelleria 10.76918753 C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R47_Centocelle_Necropolis 10.82503118 C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R56_Villa_Magna 11.26164730 C6_Late_Antiquity_Mediterranean:R107_Crypta_Balbi 11.38913956 C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R111_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis 11.47918116 C6_Late_Antiquity_Mediterranean:R36_Celio 11.57820366 C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R131_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis 11.66526039 C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R45_Isola_Sacra_Necropolis 11.79233649 C5_Late_Antiquity_Eastern_Mediterranean:R32_Mausole_di_Augusto 11.82417862 C6_Late_Antiquity_Mediterranean:R121_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia 12.06321682 C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R969_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti 12.10252866 C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R1290_Villa_Magna 12.33378287 C6_Late_Antiquity_Mediterranean:R117_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia
Distance to: C.Italy_Imperial:Marsilianad'Albegna(Grosseto_Tuscany)_240-380CE:MAS002 2.96464163 C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R81_Viale_Rossini_Necropolis 4.41155301 C4_Imperial_Near_Eastern:R41_Isola_Sacra_Necropolis 4.43072229 C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R134_Marcellino_&_Pietro 4.49097985 C5_Late_Antiquity_Eastern_Mediterranean:R34_Mausole_di_Augusto 5.13506572 C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R115_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis 5.33598163 C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R66_ANAS 5.45977106 C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R133_Marcellino_&_Pietro 5.51823341 C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R1545_Necropolis_of_Monte_Agnese 5.83553768 C5_Iron_Age_Eastern_Mediterranean:R850_(Latini)_Ardea 5.91614740 C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R1543_Necropolis_of_Monte_Agnese 5.96332961 C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R123_Casale_del_Dolce 6.16414633 C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R39_Isola_Sacra_Necropolis 6.17226863 C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R50_Centocelle_Necropolis 6.54462375 C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R40_Isola_Sacra_Necropolis 6.85520970 C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R51_Centocelle_Necropolis 7.11766816 C4_Imperial_Near_Eastern:R73_ANAS 7.13604232 C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R1548_Monterotondo 7.20874469 C4_Imperial_Near_Eastern:R75_Viale_Rossini_Necropolis 7.60957949 C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R130_Marcellino_&_Pietro 7.64296408 C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R114_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis 7.67714791 C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R72_ANAS 8.11841733 C5_Late_Antiquity_Eastern_Mediterranean:R30_Mausole_di_Augusto 8.52355560 C4_Imperial_Near_Eastern:R70_ANAS 8.78526038 C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R137_Marcellino_&_Pietro 9.15473102 C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R136_Marcellino_&_Pietro
Distance to: ETR001 3.08917465 C6_Iron_Age_Mediterranean:R437_(Latin_Prenestini_Tribe)_Palestrina_Selicata 3.12755496 C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R52_Villa_Magna 4.03565360 C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R131_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis 4.13444071 C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R113_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis 4.93768164 C6_Late_Antiquity_Mediterranean:R117_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia 5.00859262 C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R56_Villa_Magna 5.05356310 C6_Late_Antiquity_Mediterranean:R118_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia 5.56285898 C5_Late_Antiquity_Eastern_Mediterranean:R122_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia 6.02139519 C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R836_Civitanova_Marche 6.29034975 C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R47_Centocelle_Necropolis 6.51112126 C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R49_Centocelle_Necropolis 6.52214689 C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R835_Civitanova_Marche 6.66137373 C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R1290_Villa_Magna 6.98725983 C6_Late_Antiquity_Mediterranean:R35_Celio 7.02551777 C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R973_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti 7.25305453 C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R65_Villa_Magna 7.88702098 C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R64_Villa_Magna 7.93834366 C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R969_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti 8.01208462 C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R54_Villa_Magna 8.17496789 C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R1283_Cancelleria 8.30575704 C6_Late_Antiquity_Mediterranean:R120_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia 8.45656550 C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R57_Villa_Magna 8.47171765 C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R111_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis 8.53086748 C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R59_Villa_Magna 8.58506261 C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R137_Marcellino_&_Pietro
This is the problem with doing averages. One or two extreme outliers can throw everything off, using the wrong reference sample for North African ancestry is another problem and just amplifies the error. Why the heck would an author who has worked with Reich and is supervised by Krause not realize that? What would happen if the outlier wasn't included? What if they used a different reference for North African?
Plus, what is that graph in the supplement all about? It shows a big change happened not before the Early Middle Ages, but after it, and the biggest change was an increase in Iran Neo, while steppe stayed about the same. How the heck could that have happened? Nowhere do they explain it. Why didn't they look at the yDna to see if their modeling made sense? There has to be some rough correlation or it doesn't make sense.
Did it not occur to them to try using only the Imperial samples who weren't extreme outliers and see if the subsequent modeling provided better fits?
I see no common sense, no attention to detail. We know more about these samples than Posth does.
It makes me doubt even the Reich Lab and Lazaridis. Whatever is most politically convenient is the way they'll go.