Religion Comments on Islam

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jarvis said:
http://www.sdadefend.com/jihad2.htm
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An entertaining read - as a kind of historic tale. Sometimes I wonder why the Tale of Genji is called the world's first novel. The Old & New Testament and the Quran were all written before !

By the way, have you notcied that it was an Adventist propaganda site ?

A few good passages :

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Now that Mohammed was in a position of unusual power, he became a changed man. He bore adversity and opposition with great patience, but was not able to bear prosperity so well. Instead of just a preacher, he now became a commander. Previously he taught principles; thenceforth, force constituted his chief means. He no longer sought to convince his antagonists, but determined to force their submission by the terror of his power.
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He declared that the period of long suffering and patience was past and that his mission, and that of every Muslim male, was to propagate the dominion of Islam by the sword. The duty of Muslims was to destroy the temples of the infidels, to overthrow the idols, and to pursue the unbelievers to the remotest quarters of the world.
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This promise, with the assurance that every man?fs death is decreed by fate, made the Muslims boldly face death in battle. They were assured that no man could die until the appointed moment. Until that moment arrived, he was safe from the enemy?fs darts; but, when it did arrive, he would drop dead in his own house or expire in his bed, if not on the battlefield. It is no wonder that, under such teaching, the soldiers of Islam have ever been distinguished for their recklessness.
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Mohammed not only promised the glories of Paradise as the reward of the valor of his followers, but the riches of this world were also to be divided among them. Thus the new religion attracted the wandering Bedouins of the Arabian desert—not so much from the sublime dogma which it taught of the spirituality of Allah, as from the sanction it conferred on the Mohammedan conquerors over the wealth, women, and slaves of the conquered.
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This is a fundamental difference between Islam and Christianity, a difference that make me wonder if the Spanish Conquistadors did not in fact absord a part of Islam in their Reconquista, and later used this aquired form of jihad in their colonisation of the Americas. That also makes me wonder if the Bush family's long relationship with Saudi leaders have not influenced them to believe in this very un-Christian "holy war".

Among the Arabs, as among the Jews, the calendar consisted of twelve lunar months of 28 days, with an extra (intercalary) month tossed in every three years, to keep the seasons in harmony with the sun.

But Mohammed changed the calendar for Muslims, and made it a disaster. He declared that the angel said it should have twelve lunar months, of alternately thirty and twenty-nine days. This threw the Muslim calendar out of harmony with the seasons, and gained a year on the Gregorian calendar every thirty-two and a half years.
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Mohammed was apparently no great scientist for his time.

In the year A.D. 633, when many of Mohammed?fs earlier acquaintances had died, the Caliph Abu Bekr ordered Mohammed?fs chief scribe, Zaid ibn Thabit, to ?gsearch out the Koran and bring it together.?h He gathered the fragments, says tradition, ?gfrom date leaves and tablets of white stone, and the breasts of men,?h that is, from the dried rib bones of dead men, on which notes had been made. From Zaid?fs completed manuscript, several copies were made. The entire book is a heap of confusion. We are not sure that Mohammed wanted all these scraps of notes included in a book. In it we find procedures, stories, laws, proclamations of victory, treaties, appeals for funds, regulation of ritual, trade, finance. Many of them were momentary details, sometimes changed later.
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In short, like the Bible but with more jumble.

More than a hundred times, the Koran threatens with hell anyone who rejects Mohammed?fs messages (iii,10,63,131; iv,56,115; vii,41; viii,50; ix,63, etc.).
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Heritage from the Old Testament ?

Koran said:
?gEvery woman who dieth, and her husband is pleased with her, shall enter Paradise?h (iv,35).
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So a Muslim woman's role in life is only to satisfy her husband ?

Koran said:
?gTake not the Jews and the Christians for friends . . Choose not your fathers nor your brothers for friends if they take pleasure in disbelief rather than in faith?h (v,51,55; ix,23).
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Clear message. Too bad they don't mention followers of other religions, but I guess it's included in those who take pleasure in disbelief. At least, those who do not believe in anything are safe (from Muslim wrath).

Koran said:
After giving unbelievers time to accept Allah, enemy unbelievers were to be killed wherever found (ix,5). But be sure to give them time to accept the faith. ?gBut if any of the idolaters seeketh thy protection, then protect him that he may hear the word of Allah . . If they repent and establish worship [accept Islam], then leave their way free?h (ix,5-6).
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So unbelievers that do not want to be converted should be killed ? Clear message from the Muslim immigrants in non-Muslim countries. They are probably in the "give them time" phase now (or are faking their faith in the Koran).
 
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Sigh. First off, I'd look at the source for most of these "translations" click here

Secondly in addition to being highly biases, its taking lines of the Koran completely out of context in order to make islam look archaic. Interpretation of the Koran using the Hadith or written stories about Muhammad's deeds and life are almost vital for understanding its contents. Muhammmad Ibn Abd Al Wahhab was one of the greatest scholars in doing so, and founded the Wahhabi interpretation. This sect, which is the main faith in Saudi Arabia, and has been criticized for being a source of islamic terrorism and fundamentallism. I'll use his interpretation to show how very prejudicial these quotes are. For example:

Jesus did not die on the cross, only a phantom did.
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Actually, accorrding to Wahhabis, Jesus was a prophet like muhammad, but not a god. No person of this earth has godlike status as there is only one god. although muhammad was seen as a perfect human, he was still a human. This is blatantly false.

After giving unbelievers time to accept Allah, enemy unbelievers were to be killed wherever found (ix,5). But be sure to give them time to accept the faith. ?gBut if any of the idolaters seeketh thy protection, then protect him that he may hear the word of Allah . . If they repent and establish worship [accept Islam], then leave their way free
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This quote is completely stripped from its context. Jihad was only justified in defence of one's religion. Al Wahhab, himself made it clear that Jihad was compeletely unjustified to attack people for a different faith.

Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends . . Choose not your fathers nor your brothers for friends if they take pleasure in disbelief rather than in faith
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Completely fabricated. Muslims are able to marry Christians and Jews because they are believed to be people of the book, or they have common roots of faith.

More than a hundred times, the Koran threatens with hell anyone who rejects Mohammed?fs messages (iii,10,63,131; iv,56,115; vii,41; viii,50; ix,63, etc.).
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any different from the bible?

I hope that this puts to rest any claims about this page's authenticity as a source of truth about islam. Today there is much demonization about Islamic religion, which has contributed to a very deep cultural gulf between different religious communities. pages like this only serve to damage relations and understanding, not aid them.
 
Amen Noyhauser. This is the same kind of ignorant (dis)information that creates a huge rift between the religions. I grew up friends with a Malaysian Muslim family who were dismayed at all the lack of knowledge and understanding between the West and Islam. Now, I work next to Muslims (whom I consider close friends) who are just as dismayed - but now, in the post 9.11 America, we cannot afford that ignorance to continue.
 
I believe there's a commandment prohibiting the bearing of false witness-- that should effectively include the bearing of false evidence and false accusations. It's kind of scary just to imagine some site runners are going to get the hot end of things. But eventually it's their freedom of speech to commit sin, and your choice to go along with it. With free will comes the consequences. One chooses to hate, and hatred one shall get.
 
jarvis said:
ok, maybe this will make the point clearer...

out of all the folks mentioned above, who did'nt kill anyone?
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Actually it does make the point clearer - you obviously are trying to indict the founder of Islam and all the people who adhere to its teachings. Why don't you just come out and say how you really feel about Muslims instead trying to lead us by the hand down a road of ignorant belief. :smug:
 
jarvis said:
ok, maybe this will make the point clearer...

out of all the folks mentioned above, who did'nt kill anyone ?
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First 'folk' that comes to mind; Mycernius :?
I haven't killed anyone since 1984...
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I am quite sure he didn't kill anyone since 1984 !!:clap:

Again your question is moot; why are you comparing your God with Muhammad a prophet ?

All these founders/reformers of religion faced opposition by one group or another and either they or their immediate followers waged the inevitable battle unto death.

How many were killed in the name of YHWH, Jesus, and Allah ?

The Jewish followers of the Messianic movement ended in two bloody uprisings; the early Christians of the 1st century who were for the most part Jewish by blood were constantly in conflict with their neighbours. The greatest murderers and object of Christian retaliations were the Romans, but the "current" bible of today conveniently transferred the hostility to fellow Jews instead of the Romans -- one reason some books of the New Testament is not believed to be in their original state, but improved upon and even fixed up to minimise opposition and further conflicts with the Romans. Please read, The Jesus Connection, which reflects a srious effort to reconcile the mystery of the Christian-Jewish hatred from historical analyses.

How many Jews were killed by the misleading and false accusation of Jews regarding Jesus' death ? The list including the blood libel, eating of Christian children, poisoning of drinking water, the "Jewish curse" culminating in the Holocaust are horrendous Church sanctioned crimes Christians have committed in the name of their God.

How many Muslims were killed in the numerous crusades ? Please do the figures before making an accusation - I mean do some serious research like a serious historian if you want people to take your posts seriously. I have also pointed out to you the dangers of "falsely accusing." Do you think just because you appear to be apologetic of Christ and Chistianity that God will exampt you from the scrutiny in the heavenly court ? Wrong ! You are bound by the same standards as anyone else for the same rules apply to anyone as rain falls equally on believers and non-believers. In fact, nothing could be more damaging than knowing faith but being misguided by a poor understanding of spiritualiy for you may already have lead one of the little ones astray. One might recall, "better not to be born... better jump into the sea with a stone tied around one's neck... one might even call out to the hills, devour me !" Did you know engaging in loose talk as you are doing is very dangerous by the biblical standard ? You are damaging the Church's reputation by displaying your very shallow understanding. Again where is your fruit of faith ?
 
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jarvis said:
or how many people Jesus killed?
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Maybe the question should be, "How many people did Christians and Muslims combined kill in history ?" Although I am pretty sure the Christians have done worse, both groups can pride themselves in disrespecting the most fundamental of the Ten Commandments, because both groups are responsible for the death of hundreds of millions. Just count : the crusades (both), jihad (Muslim), 16-17th century wars of religion (Christian), 16-19th forced conversions and massacres in colonies (Christian), terrorism (both, e.g. I.R.A. and Al Qaida), religion-based racist killings (Christian, e.g. Ku Klux Klan, Nazis), etc. ad nauseam.
 
Commend what ? Both the 27-yr-old man and the Muslim Council spokesperson (I believe he said that more out of fear of retaliation rather than genuine conviction) quoted in the article are fools. Living in a capitalist country they should have realised Burger King only apologised to avoid conflict with a blindly furiuous man. And so are you if you take this article seriously. You see, Jarvis, what you need to wake up to is the fact that your obsession is the cause that causes you to see these things with great importance when really common sense is all you need to to disregard frivolous remarks and news meant more to amuse by reporting on human stupidity. If you should choose to go as low as the poeple you consider contemptible, that's your choice and your problem. Please do not waste forum space on any more topics of paranoid nature if you can handle reality often full of absurdity. That is if you can grasp what I am getting at. It's common sense really. NOT EVEN A WORTHY TOPIC OF RELIGION/THEOLOGY.
 
jarvis said:
would y'all like fries with your dhimmitude?
http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=1951292005
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In that case, I agree that it is a complete abuse of one's religious rights. If the guy has vision about a company logo or doesn't like the taste of the ice cream, then stop buying it ! No need to come with ridiculous assertions that it was "designed to resemble" some bloated Arabic words (especially that the company was not Arabic).

That reminds me of the story about Coca Cola having to change its Arabic logo because some people said it "looked like" it meant "No Allah" (couldn't find the original story, but it is reminded here). Such people are born trouble-makers. It reminds me of those fundamentalist Christians in the States, that don't want to teach evoluation at school, evoke the 10 commandments in court, or vote for Bush because he is against abortion, or Jeovah's Witnesses that refuse to donate blood. Same kind of fanatic reasoning.
 
Bad humour

jarvis said:
my dog took a dump that looked like *****
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Now that was unnecessary !
Please remove your remark as it is without context-- unless you qualify your statement that you only mean irony, I believe your above post will be moderated. To make true irony, it also needs to be in the interrogative.

Edit: Thank you Maciamo. I have removed the sensitive word likewise.
 
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