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Crime 150+ dead after Terrorist attacks in Paris

don't reply to bullshit with other bullshit

Prove that it's "bullshit"... Prove that Flanders (which yet consider Brussels its capital) doesn't want all the social misery and poverty to be contained within Brussels so it doesn't spread out in Flanders... which is understandable btw, why would it be otherwise?
Every inhabitant of Brussels will tell you about the Flemish apprehension/distrust/defiance toward Brussels. Not that they are wrong to be.

And before being defensive... I'm not attacking Flanders or the Flemish, I'm just sick of hearing the typical scapegoating on Wallonia.
 
Just saw a very sobering news item by an American reporter who has been interviewing young men in that Brussels suburb. He said almost without exception they say they don't feel Belgian, they don't feel European, the country has never accepted them or made them feel welcome, and the attacks in Paris were justified. Fans in Turkey booed the Marseillaise.
That's their excuse, the muslim locals of Molenbeek were given a lot of accomodations and welfare by corrupt local PS politicans, far more than they would in other places. They don't feel Belgian because they never wanted to feel Belgian.
 
5 terrorist who travel with Greek stolen/fake passports were caught in Hondura,
the Amazing thing,

They travel from Turkey to Greece, back to Turkey, to Brazil, Argentina, San Hose, Costa Rika, Hondura and were caught as try to enter Guatemala,

they travel the world with fake passposrts
until now it is certified if they were true refugges who wanted travel to USA or terrorists
 
Prove that it's "bullshit"... Prove that Flanders (which yet consider Brussels its capital) doesn't want all the social misery and poverty to be contained within Brussels so it doesn't spread out in Flanders... which is understandable btw, why would it be otherwise?
Every inhabitant of Brussels will tell you about the Flemish apprehension/distrust/defiance toward Brussels. Not that they are wrong to be.

And before being defensive... I'm not attacking Flanders or the Flemish, I'm just sick of hearing the typical scapegoating on Wallonia.

I don't scapegoat anyone in Wallonia but I have trouble with people like you.
Any of these people in Brussels can move to Flanders freely.
That proves your whole reasoning is false.
But will it take away your prejudices?

The socalled social misery and poverty is attracted and created by the Brussels politicians themselves who hope these immigrants will make an excellent voting public for them.
There are big financial transfers from the Belgian taxpayers to Brussels.
 
Ed. A word about the acceptance of refugees in the U.S. My heart breaks for these people, but the only ones who can be accepted are the ones for whom we have virtual certainty that they don't have terrorist ties. I'm afraid that means no single men, only family groups, and yes, CHRISTIAN family groups should receive priority. What are people thinking? When records are scant, you do profiling. Profiling works. Ask the Israelis. Christian families coming with their local priest in village groups DON'T FIT THE PROFILE. Have people lost all common sense?

Not that I don't disagree, but in Europe they 'd call you a racist for saying this.
Furthermore this is against the Convention of Geneva, not in its original text, but as it has been amended by UN.
Either amendments have to be changed, which will be impossible because it takes unanimous consent of 150 member states, or the Geneva Convention will be burried and dead. And that will be the fault of the UN.
 
I find is sadly ironic that European governments and people excoriated the U.S. for over-reacting after 9/11, yet now that it has hit home in this way, although the dead number 140, not over 3,000, and the Eiffel Tower and the Arc de Triomphe have not been reduced to rubble, France has suspended civil liberties to this extent.

This state of emergency under which the French are acting, and which Hollande proposes to extend, permits warrant less searches, curfews, etc. That never happened in the U.S. It would also be interesting to know what kind of interrogation techniques are being used. Mind you, I'm not necessarily quarreling with the French decisions.

It's just amazing how looking at the bullet riddled or blown apart bodies of your innocent neighbors, or people who might have been your friends throwing themselves out of skyscrapers to escape a fiery inferno, in our case, can change one's perspective.

One thing that is missing in the conversations in Europe perhaps, but is not missing in conversations in the U.S. , is how did ISIS grow from a few dozen fighters to the numbers we see today, and how did this refugee crisis get so out of hand.

A great part of the responsibility for all of this lies with Barack Obama and his policies, with which Europe was complicit. In fact, Europe was the first to withdraw from the mission. I'm not going to argue that it was a good idea to invade Iraq. Had the intelligence not showed that Iraq had WMD, I'm convinced that Bush would not have gone in. Having gone in you're then committed to the outcome. If you break it, you have a responsibility to not let the situation get worse. Iraq went so badly wrong in the beginning because President Bush, apparently under the advice of Rumsfeld, didn't put in the number of troops the generals requested. After President Bush, contrary to U.S. public opinion and all the Democrats (including Barack Obama) sent in more troops, the so called "surge", things stabilized. Once Obama came into office, it was all about fulfilling his promises to the American left to withdraw.

The U.S. has had tens of thousands of troops in between North Korea and South Korea since 1951. No one has proposed withdrawing them. There have always been thousands in Germany to deter the Russians.There was no reason that ten thousand or more troops couldn't have been kept in Iraq other than his, and the left's in general warped world view that the world's problems are the result of American control. The problems come when America doesn't lead. And I really don't want to hear that the Iraqi leader didn't want us there. When you telegraph to these leaders of unstable governments that you're going to leave them high and dry if not this month then in six months, what do you expect them to do? They're going to make a deal with whatever other strong force is willing to support them in maintaining power.

Had those troops been in place, ISIS could have been destroyed when they were still a rag tag bunch in the dessert. If Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama had not totally bungled the Libya situation there would not have been that mass exodus into Europe. Had they had troops on the ground, or at least special forces, their bombing raids might have actually been able to drop bombs on real targets instead of coming back without having dropped a single bomb. I'm no big fan of John McCain for a lot of reasons, but five years ago he said that the U.S. and Nato should have created a no fly zone in the Near East for refugees where they would be safe while ISIS was dealt with. The thought was that it would be similar to the protected Kurdish areas. Had that been done, those hundreds of thousands of refugees wouldn't have headed for Europe. Had the Kurds been armed, some things might have been different. It's not that I don't understand the hesitation given the different Kurdish factions and being unclear about the ultimate motivations of some of them, but sometimes you have to deal with one risk at a time. They've been treading water in Syria for five years, just hoping to get through without an attack on U.S. soil and then dump the problem on the next President.

Now they've reaped the whirlwind, but not one word of apology for misguided decisions, seemingly no sense of guilt for the suffering of all these millions of people in the Near East, not one word about changing the strategy. Instead, we get a statement that the policy is WORKING, and that the Paris attacks are a SETBACK. It's sickening.

That also brings me to the NATO situation. NATO should be taking the lead on this. Why haven't they invoked Article 5? Is it because of Turkey? They should never have been allowed in NATO if that's the case. If you're not committed to the principles of NATO you shouldn't be in NATO. I sincerely hope that it isn't the Obama administration that is preventing this. What a disgrace if that's the case.

Ed. @Bicicleur,
If the mosque problem had been taken care of, then Hollande wouldn't be saying they may have to close some mosques. From what I understand, it's certainly still going on in Britain. Even in the U.S., the NYPD, the best in the world, in my opinion, in these matters, had a program directed at them, until our new idiot Democrat Mayor, DiBlasio, stopped it.

Ed. A word about the acceptance of refugees in the U.S. My heart breaks for these people, but the only ones who can be accepted are the ones for whom we have virtual certainty that they don't have terrorist ties. I'm afraid that means no single men, only family groups, and yes, CHRISTIAN family groups should receive priority. What are people thinking? When records are scant, you do profiling. Profiling works. Ask the Israelis. Christian families coming with their local priest in village groups DON'T FIT THE PROFILE. Have people lost all common sense?

Thumbs up, Angela. :good_job: Superb post !
 
Not that I don't disagree, but in Europe they 'd call you a racist for saying this.
Furthermore this is against the Convention of Geneva, not in its original text, but as it has been amended by UN.
Either amendments have to be changed, which will be impossible because it takes unanimous consent of 150 member states, or the Geneva Convention will be burried and dead. And that will be the fault of the UN.

I'm sure. President Obama is calling people who voice that opinion, like Senator Ted Cruz, un-American, which is almost as bad. He can get all fired up against his critics, far more fired up than he gets against ISIS. I'll admit I don't totally understand him.

I have absolutely nothing against Middle Easterners and Muslims. I've argued that we have to be humane and try to help them both in the Middle East and through taking in some refugees. I'm just saying that if you're going to accept refugees they have to be vetted. Even if there's no automatic "Christians In" policy, a proper vetting process would obviously admit more Christians because by definition they're not going to be radical Islamist jihadists. DUH! I don't understand why this isn't obvious.

In terms of vetting the Muslims, it's going to be difficult. How many records can we access in the Near East? I don't know.

When the FBI head, who is part of the administration by the way, but a law enforcement guy first and foremost says that they can't vet them because the data bases don't exist, that gives me pause.

Certainly, what is currently happening in Europe where there is no vetting of any kind going on is madness.

I have no idea if this study is legit, but if it is this is very worrisome.
https://muslimstatistics.wordpress....-in-europe-sympathize-with-the-islamic-state/
 
I don't scapegoat anyone in Wallonia but I have trouble with people like you.
Any of these people in Brussels can move to Flanders freely.
That proves your whole reasoning is false.
But will it take away your prejudices?

The socalled social misery and poverty is attracted and created by the Brussels politicians themselves who hope these immigrants will make an excellent voting public for them.
There are big financial transfers from the Belgian taxpayers to Brussels.

another reason why the EU capital should move to their other popular city of Strasbourg..............
 
You gotta love Jersey. lol

Governor Chris Christie on the President excoriating Republicans for calling for a pause in the acceptance of Syrian refugees (or increased background checks) and doing it while on foreign soil.

"He needs to get some sleep and shut up."

Senator Cruz:

"Why don't you come back and insult me to my face."

Trump:

"He just doesn't get it."

Our clueless Secretary of State just stepped in it too. Attacking Charlie Hebdo had "legitimacy"...uh no, I mean a rationale." Maybe it was legitimate to a lot of Muslims. It's not legitimate and there's no rationale in a secular, open, society that would justify killing people because they insult your religion, and that applies to Christianity as well as Islam.

Just saw a very sobering news item by an American reporter who has been interviewing young men in that Brussels suburb. He said almost without exception they say they don't feel Belgian, they don't feel European, the country has never accepted them or made them feel welcome, and the attacks in Paris were justified. Fans in Turkey booed the Marseillaise.

I don't even know what to say. Forget about trying to assign blame for past policies. What is to be done now?

I just read what Kerry said. Holy f***.
 
I have no idea if this study is legit, but if it is this is very worrisome.
https://muslimstatistics.wordpress....-in-europe-sympathize-with-the-islamic-state/

Contrary to what politically correct media are telling us, NOT ALL Syrian refugees are escaping because of ISIS. The Syrian Civil War is a real mess - there are at least 4 factions there - the Syrian regime, SRCC, ISIS and Kurds - and each of them fights against everyone else. So sympathies and support among the population are also divided into 4 parts. This corresponds well with the figure of 1/4 of Syrian refugees who either openly support or don't have anything negative to say about ISIS. They did not flee from Syria to escape ISIS, but to escape the Syrian government, SRCC forces, or Kurds. SRCC stands for Syrian Revolutionary Command Council.

Imagine it is 1945, and we have crowds of German & other Axis refugees, 23% of whom are Nazi or Pro-Nazi and want to escape from the Reich before it collapses. This is exactly what is hapenning now, except we are facing another kind of extremists.
 
Eleven fragments of Sunnah which allow and encourage Muslims to rape and to own slaves:

(1) http://sunnah.com/abudawud/15
(2) http://sunnah.com/muslim/1
(3) http://sunnah.com/bukhari/58/3
(4) http://sunnah.com/muslim/45/130
(5) http://sunnah.com/bukhari/56/221
(6) http://sunnah.com/muslim/32
(7) http://sunnah.com/muslim/32/167
(8) http://sunnah.com/muslim/54/105
(9) http://sunnah.com/abudawud/40/54
(10) http://sunnah.com/abudawud/12/110
(11) http://sunnah.com/muslim/16/147

Simply "the Religion of Piss"...

Here some good historical reading - "The Islamic Expansion and Decline", two parts:

http://www.speedyshare.com/nccwy/Islamic-Expansion-and-Decline-I.pdf

http://www.speedyshare.com/tFFA3/Islamic-Expansion-and-Decline-II.pdf

Table of contents:

Preface
Chapter 1: A Powerful and Dangerous Meme
Chapter 2: The Flawed Prophet
Chapter 3: Shadow of the Sword: Patterns of Islamic Conquest
Chapter 4: Limits of Empire: Islam Contained
Chapter 5: Patterns of Treason
Chapter 6: Triumph of the Faith: Conversion of the Vanquished
Chapter 7: Culture of the Harem: Polygamy, Concubinage and the Spread of Islam
Chapter 8: The Slave Society
Chapter 9: Strategies of Cultural Survival
Chapter 10: Phases of Islamic Political Development
Chapter 11: The Parasitic Civilization
Chapter 12: The Islamic Reformation
Chapter 13: Myth and Reality
Chapter 14: The Fire This Time
Chapter 15: Conclusion

"The Curve of Conversion" - how the Middle East and North Africa became Muslim:

http://www.speedyshare.com/m55dn/The-Curve-of-Conversion.pdf
 
I just read what Kerry said. Holy f***.

In my opinion he revealed, in an unguarded moment, his actual mindset and that of the President and a certain section of the west, to wit, that it's somehow the west's fault that we are being attacked in this way: if we would just stay out of the Middle East, stop supporting Israel and let the Jews be exterminated, and never criticize their religion, this would all stop.

I don't understand it. It's not a logical or rational point of view. When a group tells you that their goal is to set up a world wide caliphate in which people will be forced to either convert or die, and Sharia law will be imposed, why precisely wouldn't you take them at their word?

Why would you refuse to say that it is radical Islam, with roots in Wahabism, which is providing the religious rationale? They're not mad Buddhists! I don't think most westerners are so stupid or racist as to think that all Muslims subscribe to these beliefs.

I can and do deeply deplore Torquemada and all his ilk, and the doings of the Spanish Inquisition, but I don't deny that they were Christians.

@Tomenable,

I don't see the point of listing all the objectionable passages in the Koran. I could quote you chapter and verse equally horrific things from the Old Testament, which I would remind you is, according to Christian belief, as much the inspired word of God as the New Testament. It's just that the theology of Christianity, and Judaism for that matter, has evolved over time, and thus so has the interpretation of those scriptures. The attitudes and behaviors of some tribe from the first millennium BC are not held up as some sort of modern standard.

Islam has not yet gone through the same process to the same extent, although it would be a disservice to Islam to claim that all interpretations of it are like Wahabism. Sufi Islam is very different.

Ed. As to Putin's role in all of this, it is ambiguous to say the least. This massive outpouring of refugees to Europe started because Assad was bombing and gassing his own people. Putin's main goal is supporting Assad. In fact, in the beginning he was bombing Assad's opponents, not ISIS. I think people need to take a clear headed view of his participation in all of this.
 
@Tomenable,

I don't see the point of listing all the objectionable passages in the Koran. I could quote you chapter and verse equally horrific things from the Old Testament, which I would remind you is, according to Christian belief, as much the inspired word of God as the New Testament. It's just that the theology of Christianity, and Judaism for that matter, has evolved over time, and thus so has the interpretation of those scriptures. The attitudes and behaviors of some tribe from the first millennium BC are not held up as some sort of modern standard.

Islam has not yet gone through the same process to the same extent, although it would be a disservice to Islam to claim that all interpretations of it are like Wahabism. Sufi Islam is very different.

it is not because you find the same things in the Old Testament that the Quran is excused

the Old Testament was written by writers commissioned by some Jewish king in the 8th century BC who was at war with the Filistines and some rival Jewish kings
this king justified his actions and his wars because he was leading the chosen people and the Filistines happened to be trespassing the promised land
when you see how Jewish colonists took the lands of the Palestine farmers, it sounds familiar

do you think ISIS would be able to convince his warriors to commit suicide in order to kill innocent people without quoting the Quran?

don't think the wholy books are innocent
it is so easy to abuse them, because they were originaly written for that purpose

Dimitri Verhulst has 'rewritten the Bible'.
In order to make publicity and present his new book he has been asking why 'Mein Kampf' is forbidden and not the Bible because the bible uses the same 'language of genocide'.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimitri_Verhulst

the publicity for his book worked, he got the attention, but what he said was not contradicted
 
Bicicleur, I was force fed Biblical analysis, including textual analysis, Biblical archaeology, the history of the periods involved, and even some elementary linguistic analysis for 45 minutes a day for the entire four years of my theology classes in high school, and then again in college courses. You don't need to convince me that there are such passages in the Old Testament, nor that they reflect the history and mores of that particular time, place and people.

Nor do you need to convince me that similar kinds of passages in the Koran are being used to justify this psychopathic behavior.

As I said, the theology of Christianity and Islam has evolved, there are strains of Islam which have not.
 
Bicicleur, I was force fed Biblical analysis, including textual analysis, Biblical archaeology, the history of the periods involved, and even some elementary linguistic analysis for 45 minutes a day for the entire four years of my theology classes in high school, and then again in college courses. You don't need to convince me that there are such passages in the Old Testament, nor that they reflect the history and mores of that particular time, place and people.

Nor do you need to convince me that similar kinds of passages in the Koran are being used to justify this psychopathic behavior.

As I said, the theology of Christianity and Islam has evolved, there are strains of Islam which have not.

it's not just a few strains
there are whole countries or areas in the world where the majority is susceptible for this rhetoric
Europe imported some of them over the last few decades
 
this is the man that didn't blow himself up in Paris and came back to hide in Brussels :

police-nationale-has-just-issued-this-arrest-warrant-for-abdeslam-salah-suspected-of-being-involved-in-the-paris-attacks.jpg


Belgian police is looking for them
but also ISIS is
if he doesn't blow himself up soon in a place with many people around, his family won't be safe for ISIS

and this is what Brussels looks like today :

12295394_10206601118120196_7573921459023488147_n.jpg
 
QUOTE=bicicleur;471263]this is the man that didn't blow himself up in Paris and came back to hide in Brussels :

police-nationale-has-just-issued-this-arrest-warrant-for-abdeslam-salah-suspected-of-being-involved-in-the-paris-attacks.jpg


Belgian police is looking for them
but also ISIS is
if he doesn't blow himself up soon in a place with many people around, his family won't be safe for ISIS

and this is what Brussels looks like today :

12295394_10206601118120196_7573921459023488147_n.jpg
[/QUOT

We've had non stop tv coverage of it, and even that is depressing. Living with it must be absolutely terrible. I'm sure they are desperate to catch Abdeslam and whoever is helping him before too much more time passes because how long can you keep a city shut down like this?

Amazing, isn't it, that for months all we had were a few half-hearted raids, and now all of a sudden we miraculously have all of these "targets" such as training camps, fuel transport, and on and on.

Meanwhile, some intelligence analysts here complained to their Inspector General that their assessments were being altered by Defense Department commanders to present a "rosier" picture of the situation vis a vis ISIS. Another scandal, just what we needed. The Democrats will, I'm sure, try to argue that the administration was misled by dastardly military types. Now we'll see if the Commanders will fall on their swords or whether they'll claim that White House operatives told them to do it. I've yet to figure out how the administration's supporters think they can blame the Defense Department when the two prior Secretaries of Defense in this administration, most recently Leon Panetta, have gone public in recent weeks and months that the President in effect didn't want to see the situation realistically.

Leon Panetta on what needs to be done:
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/is...etary-leon-panetta-isis-fight-u-s-has-n467801

This from a man who was born a dedicated Democrat. He's being a little coy there. Article 5 isn't being invoked because the administration doesn't want it to be invoked. Hollande will get no joy from his visit here.
 
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