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Thread: Catalonia may become an independent nation soon...

  1. #101
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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.


    Quote Originally Posted by zanipolo View Post
    here is an interesting article




    http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/34...ope-secessions


    @ Carlos
    I do not understand how you can be so undemocratic....you are basically on the verge of being a racist

    How dare you?
    This article is full of inaccuracies, and not captures the situation.

    It is an indignity daring to say that the 17 regions only 14 can be considered totally Spanish, and is unworthy of an undocumented own daring to say something.

    The regions have their own regional language also have Spanish as an official language, the language that is common to all Spanish and so mistreated by the government cataliban lately. So very protegias regional languages ​​by regional governments at the official level, but that the street can not enforce or control and the Spanish language is used completely as in any other region of Spain.

    Is Galician is a dialect of Portuguese? Almost all understand Spanish Galician to perfection because the talk more today is called "castrapo" I see the tv Galician and understand everything they say.

    This article is written by a donkey.

    The income per capita, as a unit of measure of social welfare and quality of life of the inhabitants of a country, has lost its credibility.


    Catalonia is not Spain's richest region, the richest region of Spain is Madrid, when are going to find in the U.S.?


    Catalonia is fully depleted.


    The public debt of the Community of Madrid in 2010 was two and half times lower than in Catalonia. If at first amounted to 6.6% of regional GDP in the second comfortably exceeds 15%. In Madrid the debt / GDP ratio remains more or less stable since 2002 (around 6%) while in Catalonia has doubled in the same period of time. Madrid's debt is therefore inherited from the years of Government Ruiz Gallardón, the Catalan is the work of the tripartite political spenders Catalan, which opened a few months ago the custom of issuing debt to individuals with a very profitable bonds.




    The deficit of both communities, ie the difference between what they earn and spend, is instructive. Madrid is virtually at a standstill with a deficit of 0.6%. Catalonia, meanwhile, continues to spend more than it takes in, almost 4% more. It is understood that difference, more sooner or later, will have to cubrírsela the state with taxpayer money in Spain, including Catalonia.

    Catalonia and must spend a lot of money because the weight of the public sector is very high, double that of its counterpart in Madrid.

    Much nephew, cousin, brother and neighbor plugged in public

    Catalonia boasts the highest level of debt to GDP at 22%, while in the Madrid region is less than half, namely 9.1%, at the end of the second quarter of this year.


    As expected, public debt has increased significantly in all regions of Spain, although in the case of Catalonia growth is particularly worrying since the third quarter of 2007. At that time was 7.7%, so that has increased almost three in just five years. In Spain's capital came down to 5.2% in September 2008, before rising steadily since that time but at a slower pace.

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    And now the guy starts twisting things having as result more lies LOL

    Debt and GDP are totally different things. GDP of Madrid is 189.432€, while Catalonia's is 200.323€ (figures: million Euros). So the richest region IS Catalonia, but suffers from a huge fiscal pressure and lack of inversion regarding infrastructures, what basically downgrades "richness". Madrid has fiscal pressure because it's rich compared to other regions, but the inversions in the territory go according to its level, which is not the case in Catalonia. In short, it's the Spanish government what makes Catalonia "poorer" than Madrid. That simple, you're not fooling anyone little guy.

    Concerning other questions, it's true that Galician is not a dialect of Portuguese, but there's nothing like "Spanish Galician". Galician is Galician, let's stop with the nonsense because your obsession is greater than ever. And yes, even more than 14 regions, are not originally Castillian/Spanish speakers, for more you cry: Asturies (Bable), Aragón (Fabla Aragonesa), Catalonia (Catalan), Valencia (Catalan), Baleares (Catalan), Euskadi (Euskera), and Galicia (Galician). It's true that Bable and Fabla Aragonesa are very minoritary but, until Castilla arrived, those were the original languages as happened in other parts. There are also Euskera speakers in Navarre and Aragón as well, and a few Catalan speakers in Eastern Aragón, so as you can see the picture is really complex.

    By the way, I also understand Italian and Portuguese, and it doesn't change the fact both languages are clearly different from Castillian, Catalan, and English, the three main languages I know. All your "arguments" have been thrown to the trash, and Zanipolo is right not trusting your baseless claims, since it's pretty obvious some of you, Spanish, are afraid of no longer having Catalonia inside of Spain. That's why you spread lies and nonsense, you hope people will trust you, but the fact is no one outside Spain does.

    Meanwhile, 25-N it's closer day after day...the Spanish government's nightmare (and yours) XD
    Last edited by Knovas; 10-11-12 at 16:40.

  3. #103
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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    To my spanish friend Knovas.

    It must be horrible to live life in a lie and manipulated by the nazionalsimo dreams cataliban. I would never fall into the hands of a leader is of the past, always promising paradise, then anything goes, everything is a lie. Knovas have much to learn and not wish for you a life of bitterness, dreaming nonsense and in a state of chronic endophobia is very unfortunate to live well, open your eyes and wake up! the nazionalismo you are using for your vote and take captive the new Catalan aristocracy, a few freeloaders continue to do so at your expense.Wake up already! the rest of Spanish love you, if you get trapped in the Everest Spain will help you, will not Germany or France or anyone else, will your country.


    Now let me clarify some concepts, that foreigners, say North Americans, Europeans do not even understand just about Spain.

    1.
    When spoken in Spain rich regions and poor regions is not comparable to when talking about the rich northern Europe and southern Europe poor.

    2. Catalonia, the Basque Country and Madrid owes its "wealth" to the rest of Spain, mainly from its origins to the present. In the late 18 if I remember correctly León and Andalusia were the most industrialized regions of Spain respectively. Thereafter and political issues these regions are impoverished and relegated to strictly agricultural, with money from Andalusia and Extremadura harvests three partners: Madrid, Catalonia and the Basque Country held its industrialization. Franco follows the line of the Bourbons and privileges given to the Basque Country and Catalonia, Madrid as capital also takes the cake. The remaining regions are neglected. All multinationals coming to settle in Madrid Spain, Basque Country and Catalonia, the market the rest of Spain is given to these three regions, means that if someone wanted to buy in Andalusia eg insecticide or other product could not buy it to Germany or France or any other country, had to buy it by force in Catalonia, although the product more expensive and of lower quality than the product German or French, of course in those days the product Catalan was of poorer quality and more expensive.

    3. In Andalusia in 1975 the number of people trained in trades and professional studies: carpenters, plumbers, surveyors, electricians, mechanics etc. was the same as the number of people with the same preparation in Catalonia, what was the plan? : The plan was that all these people had just prepared in Andalusia emigrating to Catalonia, Spain since plans were developed Andalusia, which was relegated to strictly agricultural.

    4. Socialism

    With the end of the dictatorship and democracy comes with this socialism achieves power in Spain. Socialism achieved in just 20 years to put in all Spanish equality. And so in areas neglected by the Franco dictatorship reached the same social levels in the three regions favored by the Franco: Catalonia, the Basque Country and Catalonia.


    Universal education, health, low birth rate, infrastructure, communications, life index increase, GDP growth (that good, not independent of happiness)
    The advantage is that the southern regions do not repeat the mistakes of Madrid, Catalonia and the Basque Country where the industry is developed in earlier times as pollution of suburbs that are now creating examples of how foreign universities should not be built.


    Today South regions have invested in renewable energy and due to increased global awareness development is sustainable and environmentally friendly contemplative.


    Industry also exists in all regions of Spain, not only made ​​the Catalans, multinationals now fleeing Catalonia. In the rest of Spain citizens exercise great self boycotts of products made in Catalonia due to abuse and disrespect shown Catalan politicians to the rest of Spain, considering the rest of Spanish to Catalan society is being manipulated and has fallen into the paranoia fostered by the regime cataliban.

    Today it is quite true that socialism is on the decline in the public like all politicians due to corruption.

    In all Spanish regions speak the common language is Spanish. Equality between Spanish is the future and what we believe all the well-born Spanish. The feeling is like that of any other country, for example USA a citizen of a state of the U.S. This is just a citizen of the West. So not to get manipulated by present events where some independence in Catalonia is Catalan spokesman all, because all Catalans are not separatists, here is a lot of politics, a lot of lies, threats and much much prefabricated.

    The terms: Regions rich and poor regions must refer to (P.I.B.) GDP, but unemployment, evictions, trash salaries, the whole crisis there now suffer equally in the misnamed rich regions in the misnamed poor regions .


    The working classes have enriched never even Catalonia when Franco was favored by the Bourbons or suffered shortages and hardships suffered the working classes, it is comparable to the level northern Spain and southern Europe that compare north-south Europe, here we could talk rich and poor, if not domestic Spanish.


    Hope you have as a realistic view of Spain.

    The independents are out there making the rich and comparing with the great European nations, blah, blah, blah, but nothing at all, Catalonia owes the rest of Spain that their employers have been enriched in some times and may have been something more than industrial work in other areas, but the Catalan workers compared to workers in any other region of Spain is not like comparing the German worker with the worker in southern Europe and some countries in Eastern Europe.


    I hope you have been clear, and have taken a more firedigna what is Spain.
    -------------------------------------------------


    The "Generalitat" recognizes fiscal deficits much larger than that of Catalonia


    A recent report by the Directorate General of Economic Affairs of the Government on fiscal balances admits a state in Mexico and four U.S. fiscal deficits are higher than in Catalonia, dismantling, thus the myth that it is a situation unparalleled in the developed world.

    http://www.vozbcn.com/2012/11/06/133...8LowA.facebook
    Last edited by Carlos; 11-11-12 at 01:27.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos View Post
    To my spanish friend Knovas.

    It must be horrible to live life in a lie and manipulated by the nazionalsimo dreams cataliban. I would never fall into the hands of a leader is of the past, always promising paradise, then anything goes, everything is a lie. Knovas have much to learn and not wish for you a life of bitterness, dreaming nonsense and in a state of chronic endophobia is very unfortunate to live well, open your eyes and wake up! the nazionalismo you are using for your vote and take captive the new Catalan aristocracy, a few freeloaders continue to do so at your expense.Wake up already! the rest of Spanish love you, if you get trapped in the Everest Spain will help you, will not Germany or France or anyone else, will your country.


    Now let me clarify some concepts, that foreigners, say North Americans, Europeans do not even understand just about Spain.

    1.
    When spoken in Spain rich regions and poor regions is not comparable to when talking about the rich northern Europe and southern Europe poor.

    2. Catalonia, the Basque Country and Madrid owes its "wealth" to the rest of Spain, mainly from its origins to the present. In the late 18 if I remember correctly León and Andalusia were the most industrialized regions of Spain respectively. Thereafter and political issues these regions are impoverished and relegated to strictly agricultural, with money from Andalusia and Extremadura harvests three partners: Madrid, Catalonia and the Basque Country held its industrialization. Franco follows the line of the Bourbons and privileges given to the Basque Country and Catalonia, Madrid as capital also takes the cake. The remaining regions are neglected. All multinationals coming to settle in Madrid Spain, Basque Country and Catalonia, the market the rest of Spain is given to these three regions, means that if someone wanted to buy in Andalusia eg insecticide or other product could not buy it to Germany or France or any other country, had to buy it by force in Catalonia, although the product more expensive and of lower quality than the product German or French, of course in those days the product Catalan was of poorer quality and more expensive.

    3. In Andalusia in 1975 the number of people trained in trades and professional studies: carpenters, plumbers, surveyors, electricians, mechanics etc. was the same as the number of people with the same preparation in Catalonia, what was the plan? : The plan was that all these people had just prepared in Andalusia emigrating to Catalonia, Spain since plans were developed Andalusia, which was relegated to strictly agricultural.

    4. Socialism

    With the end of the dictatorship and democracy comes with this socialism achieves power in Spain. Socialism achieved in just 20 years to put in all Spanish equality. And so in areas neglected by the Franco dictatorship reached the same social levels in the three regions favored by the Franco: Catalonia, the Basque Country and Catalonia.


    Universal education, health, low birth rate, infrastructure, communications, life index increase, GDP growth (that good, not independent of happiness)
    The advantage is that the southern regions do not repeat the mistakes of Madrid, Catalonia and the Basque Country where the industry is developed in earlier times as pollution of suburbs that are now creating examples of how foreign universities should not be built.


    Today South regions have invested in renewable energy and due to increased global awareness development is sustainable and environmentally friendly contemplative.


    Industry also exists in all regions of Spain, not only made ​​the Catalans, multinationals now fleeing Catalonia. In the rest of Spain citizens exercise great self boycotts of products made in Catalonia due to abuse and disrespect shown Catalan politicians to the rest of Spain, considering the rest of Spanish to Catalan society is being manipulated and has fallen into the paranoia fostered by the regime cataliban.

    Today it is quite true that socialism is on the decline in the public like all politicians due to corruption.

    In all Spanish regions speak the common language is Spanish. Equality between Spanish is the future and what we believe all the well-born Spanish. The feeling is like that of any other country, for example USA a citizen of a state of the U.S. This is just a citizen of the West. So not to get manipulated by present events where some independence in Catalonia is Catalan spokesman all, because all Catalans are not separatists, here is a lot of politics, a lot of lies, threats and much much prefabricated.

    The terms: Regions rich and poor regions must refer to (P.I.B.) GDP, but unemployment, evictions, trash salaries, the whole crisis there now suffer equally in the misnamed rich regions in the misnamed poor regions .


    The working classes have enriched never even Catalonia when Franco was favored by the Bourbons or suffered shortages and hardships suffered the working classes, it is comparable to the level northern Spain and southern Europe that compare north-south Europe, here we could talk rich and poor, if not domestic Spanish.


    Hope you have as a realistic view of Spain.

    The independents are out there making the rich and comparing with the great European nations, blah, blah, blah, but nothing at all, Catalonia owes the rest of Spain that their employers have been enriched in some times and may have been something more than industrial work in other areas, but the Catalan workers compared to workers in any other region of Spain is not like comparing the German worker with the worker in southern Europe and some countries in Eastern Europe.


    I hope you have been clear, and have taken a more firedigna what is Spain.
    -------------------------------------------------


    The "Generalitat" recognizes fiscal deficits much larger than that of Catalonia


    A recent report by the Directorate General of Economic Affairs of the Government on fiscal balances admits a state in Mexico and four U.S. fiscal deficits are higher than in Catalonia, dismantling, thus the myth that it is a situation unparalleled in the developed world.

    http://www.vozbcn.com/2012/11/06/133...8LowA.facebook
    You do realise its cheaper for castilain Spain if you let catalonia leave...the EU does not have to give you so much money and the burden for castilains is less!

    Looks like the first economists when the EU was created are CORRECT..the EU will only succed if its regional based and not national based
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    whats this rubbish about a moderator all about?

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by zanipolo View Post
    whats this rubbish about a moderator all about?

    What are you talking about?


    Since democracy is what you are!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by zanipolo View Post
    whats this rubbish about a moderator all about?
    He basically spent 10 paragraphs more or less to tell us nothing. Well, now it seems other regions have higher fiscal pressure than Catalonia, and for this reason the Catalan situation is not that bad inside the Spanish framework. Twisting things, as usual.

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  9. #109
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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Carlos, Galician maybe or maybe not a dialect of Portuguese, but the fact is that with my knowledge of Spanish I perfectly understand Portuguese and can make myself understood to a Portuguese person.
    Does it make Portuguese a dialect of Spanish or vice versa?

    The scientific fact is that modern romance languages stem from Latin and are linguistically very closely related even after 2000 years. The rest is geopolitical games played by various groups...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kardu View Post
    Carlos, Galician maybe or maybe not a dialect of Portuguese, but the fact is that with my knowledge of Spanish I perfectly understand Portuguese and can make myself understood to a Portuguese person.
    Does it make Portuguese a dialect of Spanish or vice versa?

    The scientific fact is that modern romance languages stem from Latin and are linguistically very closely related even after 2000 years. The rest is geopolitical games played by various groups...
    Yes, as politicians try to steer people away from reality and create vested interests to manipulate and get, but in the end the only ones who benefit are the politicians take and those behind them, the people will never be rich.

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    Artur Mas election poster for the regional elections 25N


    I fear that my suspicions about the alleged mental imbalance Artur Mas daily stop being suspicious to become certainty.


    What a shame! embarrassment!!!
    Last edited by Carlos; 12-11-12 at 04:18.

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    As of 2010, Catalonia was deficit in the balance between the given and received into the coffers of Social Security. According to data disaggregated by province, in 2010 the total contribution of Catalonia was 18,422,000, while its pension cost over 420 million, 18,842. Last year the gap even more. In 2011, the last year ended, Catalonia contributed to Social Security 18,373,000, and received 19,541. Only the province of Gerona posted a surplus.


    In the ruin and diverting attention from the mismanagement of the Catalan regional government with the issue of independence. Please if you are not able to lead a region how they will be able to take an independent country.

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    Javier Barraycoa is a professor of Barcelona that has black on white nationalism contradictions present in a book that dismantles the myths espoused by the political Catalan historical level.

    Javier Barraycoa: "Catalan nationalists designed has nothing to do with the traditional language"
    His book reveals 200 stories of nationalism, including its complicity with fascism

    I argued with some Catalan nationalists on the origins, when the nationalists realized that I knew more history than them, they said: 'do not be fooled, Catalan nationalism has nothing to do with history, is simply a decision of wanting be what you want to be '.

    Nationalism does not represent all the people, comes from a middle class for the intentions of the Government of Madrid to agree with England and the whole group of textile entrepreneurs created as a 'lobby' nationalism to defend their interests.

    One of the most interesting work Barraycoa is the reference to the linkages of nationalist parties with the fascists. This includes the fact that Mussolini Bentio fund to Francesc Macia in his bizarre plan to invade Catalonia in the late '20s.


    In the first third of the twentieth century nationalism fascist temptation arises. (...) Appears Estat Catala, led by one Dencas, known as 'the Catalan Duce' he had great connections with Italy. (...) They mimic uniforms. (...) Jose Antonio Aguirre-known leader of the PNV-also looked compromise with National Socialism. They have much in common, both drink of racism, making them closer to fascism.

    Barraycoa also remembered as one of the top poets in Catalonia, Verdaguer, is removed from teaching for not agreeing with the nationalist vision. Even more amazed to discover the origin of the Zarzuela Catalan or Lluís Companys had fought in the lerrouxismo (considered anti-Catalan) and dissolved sardanas with sticks.


    What role culture plays in Catalan nationalism?


    Is essential. In the book I explain. Some Catalan realized-even Prat de la Riba-says that the tongue is a political weapon but were aware that neither Catalan nor did he would lose a lot of effort in publishing in Catalan. However, over time, in the creation of the myth, language and culture have taken hold. It's very powerful because language is the bridge between the Catalan and Catalan racist ideological current. I mean, for 30 years defended the powerful racist, we have a special head bone (Dr. Robert), but there is a time when this speech fails, after World War II as racist discourse sinks throughout Europe. And argue that, since they are not race, to be defined by the language. This is what it preaches Jordi Pujol: if we get people talking in Catalan Catalan do. It is not to save the language to save her but becomes a political tool even mental transformation.

    Bravo, bravo, bravo, very well Javier Barraycoa!!!


    Are you getting this?



    Yes, sure, sure ... we have evidence of that. For example, the policy of the Government for years to encourage immigration of North African and Latin America is not because they hope they can Catalanise easier for a no than a Castilian Castilian. The logic of the use of language as a mental transformation continues.


    The book notes that the specialty of nationalism is creating the problem, then give the solution. Do what you practice CiU in Congress? Is nationalism thread from the beginning?


    Several analysts Yes nationalism of the early twentieth century and discovered that this tactic. The first lie was to convince the Catalan Castilian that hated us, and so we would hate the Castilians. Was to create the dialectic of hatred. But was very conscious Cambó explains in his memoirs that this was a way to get a number of benefits for Catalonia, and in fact did not believe it much. The Lliga, Catalan is not called because no one liked, brings together many businessmen and bourgeois textile and becomes a political instrument of pressure, but it is believed the Catalan. As much a small group of young people gathered in the Centre School Catalanista, that create the ideology of nationalism, albeit with the money of the bourgeoisie.




    http://www.vozbcn.com/2011/12/24/972...o-odio-espana/

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    You're spamming lies and you don't even hide your intentions. And you talk about mental issues? Maybe it's time to visit the psychiatrist.

    Posting nonsense from the most anti-Catalan press. Fantastic, you're doing a really good job to increase independence in Catalonia. The argument of pensions it's incredibly funny, since if we can pay it now with a huge fiscal deficit, we'll do it for sure having all our money. We're talking about more than 16.000 million Euros, so it's safe to say it. Note that the international media is not wondering what would happen to Catalonia when having independence, they wonder what would happen to Spain. That's something Gallardón recognized in some way in one of his last speeches, pointing that Spain would no longer be able to preserve the Euro (exactly like this, yes little guy). Think about it, because you're missing the target, and it's rather a shot in your own face (you only contribute to increase independence as I said). Well then, thank you xD

    It's sad some of you, Spanish, are so incredibly fanatic to trust this kind of informations, and go to the point of comparing the Catalans with Nazis simply bacuse you don't agree. The whole world noticed this attitude, that's why you already lost the international "battle", since all you do is to spread baseless claims. On the other hand, there's people in Madrid who recently wrote a letter supporting a referendum in Catalonia: most of them university professors and serious people, who are (fortunately) far from insanity. However, their voice it's still silent compared to the other nonsense, but that's at least something.
    Last edited by Knovas; 12-11-12 at 18:05.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos View Post
    Javier Barraycoa is a professor of Barcelona that has black on white nationalism contradictions present in a book that dismantles the myths espoused by the political Catalan historical level.

    Javier Barraycoa: "Catalan nationalists designed has nothing to do with the traditional language"
    His book reveals 200 stories of nationalism, including its complicity with fascism

    I argued with some Catalan nationalists on the origins, when the nationalists realized that I knew more history than them, they said: 'do not be fooled, Catalan nationalism has nothing to do with history, is simply a decision of wanting be what you want to be '.

    Nationalism does not represent all the people, comes from a middle class for the intentions of the Government of Madrid to agree with England and the whole group of textile entrepreneurs created as a 'lobby' nationalism to defend their interests.

    One of the most interesting work Barraycoa is the reference to the linkages of nationalist parties with the fascists. This includes the fact that Mussolini Bentio fund to Francesc Macia in his bizarre plan to invade Catalonia in the late '20s.


    In the first third of the twentieth century nationalism fascist temptation arises. (...) Appears Estat Catala, led by one Dencas, known as 'the Catalan Duce' he had great connections with Italy. (...) They mimic uniforms. (...) Jose Antonio Aguirre-known leader of the PNV-also looked compromise with National Socialism. They have much in common, both drink of racism, making them closer to fascism.

    Barraycoa also remembered as one of the top poets in Catalonia, Verdaguer, is removed from teaching for not agreeing with the nationalist vision. Even more amazed to discover the origin of the Zarzuela Catalan or Lluís Companys had fought in the lerrouxismo (considered anti-Catalan) and dissolved sardanas with sticks.


    What role culture plays in Catalan nationalism?


    Is essential. In the book I explain. Some Catalan realized-even Prat de la Riba-says that the tongue is a political weapon but were aware that neither Catalan nor did he would lose a lot of effort in publishing in Catalan. However, over time, in the creation of the myth, language and culture have taken hold. It's very powerful because language is the bridge between the Catalan and Catalan racist ideological current. I mean, for 30 years defended the powerful racist, we have a special head bone (Dr. Robert), but there is a time when this speech fails, after World War II as racist discourse sinks throughout Europe. And argue that, since they are not race, to be defined by the language. This is what it preaches Jordi Pujol: if we get people talking in Catalan Catalan do. It is not to save the language to save her but becomes a political tool even mental transformation.

    Bravo, bravo, bravo, very well Javier Barraycoa!!!


    Are you getting this?



    Yes, sure, sure ... we have evidence of that. For example, the policy of the Government for years to encourage immigration of North African and Latin America is not because they hope they can Catalanise easier for a no than a Castilian Castilian. The logic of the use of language as a mental transformation continues.


    The book notes that the specialty of nationalism is creating the problem, then give the solution. Do what you practice CiU in Congress? Is nationalism thread from the beginning?


    Several analysts Yes nationalism of the early twentieth century and discovered that this tactic. The first lie was to convince the Catalan Castilian that hated us, and so we would hate the Castilians. Was to create the dialectic of hatred. But was very conscious Cambó explains in his memoirs that this was a way to get a number of benefits for Catalonia, and in fact did not believe it much. The Lliga, Catalan is not called because no one liked, brings together many businessmen and bourgeois textile and becomes a political instrument of pressure, but it is believed the Catalan. As much a small group of young people gathered in the Centre School Catalanista, that create the ideology of nationalism, albeit with the money of the bourgeoisie.




    http://www.vozbcn.com/2011/12/24/972...o-odio-espana/
    Please explain your paranoia with holding people against their will, this is the 21st century if you did not know?........
    .are you still living in the time when the castilans subjugated people?.......Next you will want argentina, colombia etc back under Spain

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    every time I write to Carlos , I get a message that a moderator has to check it................what is this all about?

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    Quote Originally Posted by zanipolo View Post
    every time I write to Carlos , I get a message that a moderator has to check it................what is this all about?
    Must be computer system, each thread x messages regardless of the message sent passes a controversial, even after the message disappears forever.


    So you do not have anything to do with writing to Carlos.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Knovas View Post
    You're spamming lies and you don't even hide your intentions. And you talk about mental issues? Maybe it's time to visit the psychiatrist.


    Why always wants fascism mouths shut?
    You do not like that international public opinion have a thorough Catalan nationalism? Logical separatists have for decades giving a distorted version, have won many adherents becoming victims and then right and left saying: we are better, we are better, we are more Europeans are best we are as we are rich, we're rich, wordiness , but when it comes to show, have not proved anything, always scheming, dreaming and comparing with the great European nations, it is pathetic and pitiful his world of lies, distortions and paranoia.



    I have revealed much information hidden by nationalists to international public opinion because I've noticed that only knew the vision of independence, and manipulated and distorted, I hope that with all this information take out a better conclusion of the Spanish reality.

    Posting nonsense from the most anti-Catalan press. Fantastic, you're doing a really good job to increase independence in Catalonia. The argument of pensions it's incredibly funny, since if we can pay it now with a huge fiscal deficit, we'll do it for sure having all our money. We're talking about more than 16.000 million Euros, so it's safe to say it. Note that the international media is not wondering what would happen to Catalonia when having independence, they wonder what would happen to Spain. That's something Gallardón recognized in some way in one of his last speeches, pointing that Spain would no longer be able to preserve the Euro (exactly like this, yes little guy). Think about it, because you're missing the target, and it's rather a shot in your own face (you only contribute to increase independence as I said). Well then, thank you xD

    Freedom of expression. I do not like the monopoly of information, nor does it give biased information. International public opinion already knows your altered vision of things, and I'm here to inform and provide information that hides the Catalan independence movement. Quiet that Catalonia is not going to wean from Spain.

    It's sad some of you, Spanish, are so incredibly fanatic to trust this kind of informations, and go to the point of comparing the Catalans with Nazis simply bacuse you don't agree. The whole world noticed this attitude, that's why you already lost the international "battle", since all you do is to spread baseless claims. On the other hand, there's people in Madrid who recently wrote a letter supporting a referendum in Catalonia: most of them university professors and serious people, who are (fortunately) far from insanity. However, their voice it's still silent compared to the other nonsense, but that's at least something.

    I have given the information that each draw their conclusions. If the world once beat them, we'll beat them, Spain will not suffer that on its soil creating a regime of this kind.


    "The nationalists trying to convince non-independence of heart that would be a helluva business - independence - and although not just sit Catalans will live better and richer," lamented De la Fuente, indicating that the citizens of Catalonia thirty years are subject to a permanent political marketing campaign.

    "We have to dismantle the idea of fiscal plundering not suffer in any region", said Professor of Public Finance at the University of Santiago Álvarez García Oviedo.

    The use of "myths" by the political class is populism not democratic

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    I like people giving different points of view, even when they really haven't an opinion and are simply against something, posting every information they see without contrasting if it's true or not. There you are some examples of the errors you have commited:


    - Madrid is richer than Catalonia: it's rather Spain what makes Madrid richer as I pointed above, since the numbers concerning GDP are clear as day.

    - Artur Mas spent 1600 Euros in the Hotel.

    - Coca-Cola leaves Catalonia.

    - Spanish-Galician LOL.

    - There's not a majority in favour of independence (good one, you obviously don't know much about the Catalan reality).

    - Twistting things about wolsvagen: hey, they inverted money in railways and they're still waiting for the Mediterranean axis (which Spain avoids to accomplish), but you must be out of reality ignoring such an information.

    - The last one: now you try to say there's no fiscal pressure in Catalonia when everybody knows that, even Alicia Sánchez Camacho admitted 2 weeks ago in TV1 some things should be revised. Professors telling such a stupidity can be counted with the fingers of one hand (all Spanish), while we find many telling the contrary, not to mention the interntional media.

    And so on...


    If you ask me, I prefer you keep going on with the embarassing nonsense, definetely much better for us. It's just annoying due to the continuous spam, that's all.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knovas View Post
    It's just annoying due to the continuous spam, that's all.
    And the google translate lines are killing me on top of that..

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Times have changed and the other regions will not allow that Catalonia has privileges, there is no reason for it, nor is the mentality of the times.


    Furthermore Catalonia as an independent country within the EU would be horrible, all day would be asking for money, ask, ask, ask, oh, my God, all foreigners who now support the Catalan independence wish I had not, go crazy to EU Member


    We know how it operates throughout Catalonia History. Centuries of privileges have become comfortable, but centuries of privilege have not been for nothing, ember embraces your most heated, and now want to do it as a full member in the EU but owl often they would play, is to think about it ...


    Gimme, gimme, gimme, I want, I want, I want, all day crying for tit. You have to work not so much ask and ask,

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kardu View Post
    And the google translate lines are killing me on top of that..
    Subtle but a low blow and a call for my head cut off.


    Do not underestimate me dear, I am comforted that at least now you know another version and information about the kind of people that are the Catalan independence and I think that combines well with the EU what happens is that hardly anyone knows, there is nothing more to read the foreign press, as the BBC seems to be wanting the destruction of Spain, but that's not going to get.

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    The EU is fed up with Spain. Fed up with its total lack of responsibility administering economy, fed up with its banks, fed up with its pressures concerning Catalonia's independence, and fed up with its insistence on creating the Central axis when they said the Mediterranean axis was (and still is) prioritary.

    FACT! It's time some individuals realise what's going on.

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knovas View Post
    The EU is fed up with Spain. Fed up with its total lack of responsibility administering economy, fed up with its banks, fed up with its pressures concerning Catalonia's independence, and fed up with its insistence on creating the Central axis when they said the Mediterranean axis was (and still is) prioritary.

    FACT! It's time some individuals realise what's going on.

    Prioritary, prioritary, prioritary!!! why prioritary?

    Look little man, this is what you want to hide your head and lie of independence used to hide all its corruption.

    A decade of corruption in Catalonia. The roles of the "Palau case" reflect that C.I.U. was 2.5% of the awards millions

    Spain steals. Spain steals. Spain steals, world help us! ... but if the thief is it, are they.

    EFE
    Artur Mas corruption that wants to cover the electoral campaign

    The coroner estimated at over 8 million money still missing, according to reports from the Tax Agency (AEAT). Tracking accounts in Switzerland and other tax havens continues, because existing evidence on accounts in those countries. In one of Palau's records were found in the documents listed, and in 2001, a Swiss bank account with a million dollars.

    So are your idols!!!

    Disappointed?

    It has to be a masochist to believe in the Catalan independence, that or have brainwashed.

    Good small, you no longer have a monopoly on information, is that you do not like it rigth?

    http://www.abc.es/20121112/espana/ab...-20121112.html

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    You're so nervous guy, time to have an herbal infusion

    Prioritary because it connects the main maritime ports along the Mediterranean, including parts of France, while de nonsensical proposal of Spain, the Central axis to France, required a huge investment and wasn't as useful according to the estimations made by the EU. There you are, from you're lovely Spanish press: http://elpais.com/elpais/2011/10/19/...27_850215.html

    It's not what I say, it's what it is: prioritary because the EU said this, that simple. Spain is ridiculing itself with its insistence in something which has been largely declared useless, like it or not.

    By the way, the other link concerns Felix Millet, not concretely CiU since it's necessary to investigate more. Anyways, I told you but it seems you don't want to remember: the biggest corruption which generated the incredibly high debt of Spain belongs to PP and PSOE, not to regional parties (insignificant). Again, that's FACT, so take it easy because you're mising the target everytime you strike with new comments, basically shooting no one but yourself. Take a rest, I'm afraid you need it ;)

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