23andme and AncestryDNA, post your Southern European results

[Coolheaded]

My apologies for assuming. In my defense, we still get refugees from racist anthrofora, although it has slowed down considerably.

Perhaps it was up thread, but I didn't see the entire 23andme run down. Could you post or re-post it. I ask because I've never seen a half Italian get virtually no Italian in 23andme.

Never been on anthrofora.
I have posted on the Apricity, and deeply loathe that horrid site.
I'm indeed more or less half Italian, from northern Italy dating to the Roman Era.
23andMe (and others) ascribe that to the "Ashkenazi Jewish" ethnic group and are disregardful of my Italian roots.
I attribute that to middle eastern politics and religious divisiveness.
I understand that ALL autosomal testing sites play this game.
I don't like it at all.
I have to go to an amateurish site, (GEDmatch) to load my raw data, to try and get some reasonable computations of my ACTUAL ethnic breakdown.
My Italian scores on most tests exceed many people that are "full Italians" on sites like 23andMe.

Here is my data from 23andMe, Angela.
Ashkenazi Jewish 73.5%
British and Irish (UK) 11.8%
Italian 0.4%
Balkan 0.2%
Iberian 0.1%
Broadly North West European 5.4%
Broadly southern European 3.4%
Broadly European 2.7%

West Asian and North African 2.2%
North African/Arabian 0.9%
Broadly west Asian and North African 1.0%
Unassigned 0.3%

 

[Angela]

Never been on anthrofora.
I have posted on the Apricity, and deeply loathe that horrid site.
I'm indeed more or less half Italian, from northern Italy dating to the Roman Era.
23andMe (and others) ascribe that to the "Ashkenazi Jewish" ethnic group and are disregardful of my Italian roots.
I attribute that to middle eastern politics and religious divisiveness.
I understand that ALL autosomal testing sites play this game.
I don't like it at all.
I have to go to an amateurish site, (GEDmatch) to load my raw data, to try and get some reasonable computations of my ACTUAL ethnic breakdown.
My Italian scores on most tests exceed many people that are "full Italians" on sites like 23andMe.

Here is my data from 23andMe, Angela.
Ashkenazi Jewish 73.5%
British and Irish (UK) 11.8%
Italian 0.4%
Balkan 0.2%
Iberian 0.1%
Broadly North West European 5.4%
Broadly southern European 3.4%
Broadly European 2.7%

West Asian and North African 2.2%
North African/Arabian 0.9%
Broadly west Asian and North African 1.0%
Unassigned 0.3%

Oh dear, my instincts are indeed infallible.

If 23andme says you're close to 75% Ashkenazi, then that's what you are. You can't fool the algorithm about that. You'll have a couple of thousand Ashkenazi cousins to prove it. Southern Italians and Sicilians have virtually none.

End of story.

 

[davef]

Never been on anthrofora.
I have posted on the Apricity, and deeply loathe that horrid site.
I'm indeed more or less half Italian, from northern Italy dating to the Roman Era.
23andMe (and others) ascribe that to the "Ashkenazi Jewish" ethnic group and are disregardful of my Italian roots.
I attribute that to middle eastern politics and religious divisiveness.
I understand that ALL autosomal testing sites play this game.
I don't like it at all.
I have to go to an amateurish site, (GEDmatch) to load my raw data, to try and get some reasonable computations of my ACTUAL ethnic breakdown.
My Italian scores on most tests exceed many people that are "full Italians" on sites like 23andMe.

Here is my data from 23andMe, Angela.
Ashkenazi Jewish 73.5%
British and Irish (UK) 11.8%
Italian 0.4%
Balkan 0.2%
Iberian 0.1%
Broadly North West European 5.4%
Broadly southern European 3.4%
Broadly European 2.7%

West Asian and North African 2.2%
North African/Arabian 0.9%
Broadly west Asian and North African 1.0%
Unassigned 0.3%

The calculators you did on gedmatch guessed you as italian due to how you scored against Italians, not due to having actual italian ancestry. You should read the article in this thread, it covers ashkenazi genetics quite well.

https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/35705-Time-and-place-of-European-admixture-into-Ashkenazi-Jews

And scoring that low Italian implies you don't have much or any italian ancestry, but western Jews do have a lot of Southern Europe like admixture.

 

[Coolheaded]

Oh dear, my instincts are indeed infallible.

If 23andme says you're close to 75% Ashkenazi, then that's what you are. You can't fool the algorithm about that. You'll have a couple of thousand Ashkenazi cousins to prove it. Southern Italians and Sicilians have virtually none.

End of story.

Of course I'm PART (3/4) Ashkenazi Jewish.

But that crude ethnic designation is in reality roughly 50% Canaanite (Israelite) and 50% what today you call "Northern Italian."
Basically what you call a "Sicilian" is roughly the same 50% Canaanite (Phoenician ) and 50% what today you call "Northern Italian."
You have again misinterpreted my post in a way that was not intended.
Somewhat rudely and unnecessarily so.
I never said I wasn't Ashkenazi, but I did mention that we're basically half Italian on or maternal lines.
MOST Jews are very hostile to me even mentioning this, and pretty much EVERY Italian I have discussed this with has been closed-minded and scornful of these FACTS.
Matters not to me Angela, you can interrupt my post anyway you want.
I was actually 100% correct and straight forward, and you insinuated that I'm denying being Ashkenazi, when I did no such thing.
I never denied my family or roots and all I did was factually state that I have a very large amount of Roman ancestry.
You think I'm trying to "fool" people?
You really are insulting me, and I have NOTHING to gain as a Jewish person by honestly embracing my Roman heritage, both sides of the equation; Jews and Italians are haters on me for it.
I'm trying to talk population genetics and strictly stick to data and facts, you're injecting ethnic divisiveness.

 

[Angela]

Of course I'm PART (3/4) Ashkenazi Jewish.

But that crude ethnic designation is in reality roughly 50% Canaanite (Israelite) and 50% what today you call "Northern Italian."
Basically what you call a "Sicilian" is roughly the same 50% Canaanite (Phoenician ) and 50% what today you call "Northern Italian."
You have again misinterpreted my post in a way that was not intended.
Somewhat rudely and unnecessarily so.
I never said I wasn't Ashkenazi, but I did mention that we're basically half Italian on or maternal lines.
MOST Jews are very hostile to me even mentioning this, and pretty much EVERY Italian I have discussed this with has been closed-minded and scornful of these FACTS.
Matters not to me Angela, you can interrupt my post anyway you want.
I was actually 100% correct and straight forward, and you insinuated that I'm denying being Ashkenazi, when I did no such thing.
I never denied my family or roots and all I did was factually state that I have a very large amount of Roman ancestry.
You think I'm trying to "fool" people?
You really are insulting me, and I have NOTHING to gain as a Jewish person by honestly embracing my Roman heritage, both sides of the equation; Jews and Italians are haters on me for it.
I'm trying to talk population genetics and strictly stick to data and facts, you're injecting religion and ethnic divisiveness.

No one yet knows what precise European groups helped to create the Ashkenazi genome. Your certainty is totally misplaced.

You also clearly don't understand how modern dna testing works. 23andme and every other testing company out there is comparing your genome to those of other modern people. In doing that, 23andme correctly discovered that you're 75% Ashkenazi.

When someone comes up with a good calculator based on a classical era Judean genome and some southern European ancient samples from proximate time periods, you and everyone else will be able to see how the Ashkenazi ethnogenesis took place. Until then neither you nor anyone else knows.

 

[Angela]

Don't let the door hit you in the rear on your way out you freaking nutcase.

You don't have a clue who I am or what I'm about. Make up your baseless, fairy stories about someone else.

Can I call 'em or can I call 'em? My instincts are vindicated once again.

 

[Sile]

Actually, my post was complaining that my MASSIVE Italian component, was not detected by 23andMe.
I have no issues with southern euro ancestry, and in a nutshell I'm strongly plotting Italian or mainland Greek on an autosomal level.
23andMe didn't capture any of my quite strong Roman ancestral component and gave me me "Italian 0.4%."
I generally plot in Abruzzo or mainland Greece on accurate calculators like MDLP K16.
Not sure you were reading my post as I intended.
I'm a new poster so perhaps it's reasonable to infer that I have some issues with Southern Euros.
I did however mention in the introductions forums that I have disdain for the northern vs southern Euro flame wars on many childish forums.
I'm disappointed at 23andMe for FAILING to accurately detect my Italian ancestry.
I do NOT recommend 23andMe and stand strongly by my post.
MDLP K16.

Italian (Abruzzo)

Greek (Macedonia)

[TD="align: center"]1[/TD]

[TD="align: right"]4.51[/TD]

[TD="align: center"]2[/TD]

[TD="align: right"]5.21[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Greek (Greece)[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]5.7[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]4[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Greek (Peloponnes)[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]5.99[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Italian (SouthItaly)[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]6.07[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]6[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Jew (Ashkenazi)[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]6.32[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]7[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Sicilian (Sicily)[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]6.57[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]8[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Greek (Athens)[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]6.86[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]9[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Jew (Ashkenazim)[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]7.18[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]10[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Albanian (Albania)[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]7.27[/TD]

MDLP K23b

Sicilian_Siracusa ( )

[TD="align: center"]1[/TD]

[TD="align: right"]4.93[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]2[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Italian_Abruzzo ( )[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]5.5[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Greek_Northwest ( )[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]5.68[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]4[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Sicilian_West ( )[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]5.69[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Sicilian_Trapani ( )[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]5.81[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]6[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Sicilian_Agrigento ( )[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]5.96[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]7[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Kosovar ( )[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]6.48[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]8[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Greek_Peloponnesos ( )[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]6.61[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]9[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Ashkenazi_Jew ( )[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]6.64[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]10[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Greek_Thessaly ( )[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]7.2[/TD]

I do not know why you concern yourself with 23andme ancestry breakdown when we all know they are in error ............my father, my son and myself have always ranged between 21 to 33% in italian even though we have 5 dots for italian and no dots elsewhere

23andme has no idea about Audna mixture.....they are only slightly better than AncestryDNA and equal to Ftdna my origins

 

[davef]

You get 5 dots in spite of scoring 20-30 something italian because you match enough of the longer identical by descent sections with other Italians in the database. In total they make up 30 percent or less of your DNA.

I read about IBD through wiki, so my understanding might not be sufficient

 

[Angela]

You get 5 dots in spite of scoring 20-30 something italian because you match enough of the longer identical by descent sections with other Italians in the database. In total they make up 30 percent or less of your DNA.

I read about IBD through wiki, so my understanding might not be sufficient

The reality is that all the Southern European that Sile gets is also "Italian". The dots are because he happens to have "relatives" in the 23andme "universe".

 

[Sile]

The reality is that all the Southern European that Sile gets is also "Italian". The dots are because he happens to have "relatives" in the 23andme "universe".

agree.....here they are
Italy (110)
Has 1+ grandparents (110)
Has 2+ grandparents (82)
Has 3+ grandparents (46)
Has 4 grandparents (39) .......main paternal , surname cocchetto ...100% european...G-L497 ydna, T1a1 mtdna ..........my paternal grandfather was mtdna T1a1e
.
.
.
Germany (19)
Has 1+ grandparents (19)
Has 2+ grandparents (5)
Has 3+ grandparents (3)
Has 4 grandparents (2) ...........surname Thran .....european 100% ..........mtdna U2e1a .....married into paternal family line circa 1700
.
.
.
Austria (11)
Has 1+ grandparents (11)
Has 2+ grandparents (5)
Has 3+ grandparents (2)
Has 4 grandparents (1) ..................surname yautz .......99% european...G-L30 ydna .......married into my paternal side
.
.
.
United Kingdom (22)
Has 1+ grandparents (22)
Has 2+ grandparents (16)
Has 3+ grandparents (9)
Has 4 grandparents (8) ................surname Hinds ...related to surname Hintz from Padoa Italy ....who married into Paternal line from Morgano Veneto circa 1800
.
.
Sweden (7)
Has 1+ grandparents (7)
Has 2+ grandparents (3)
Has 3+ grandparents (1)
Has 4 grandparents (1) ........surname Tang ..........100% european ,....I-P109 ydna ...same marker as my great grandfather maternal side .....also share with surname Frasson ...via paternal ..K1c2 mtdna .....................................from Venice proper
.
.
France is Zero
USA is 193..........

 

[davef]

The reality is that all the Southern European that Sile gets is also "Italian". The dots are because he happens to have "relatives" in the 23andme "universe".

say a French person gets 1 star for France, would he score five stars if his sibling is added (and no other French person is added by then)?

 

[Salento]

say a French person gets 1 star for France, would he score five stars if his sibling is added (and no other French person is added by then)?

A few days ago I added the AncestryDNA raw data to 23andme for free (was a 24h only offer). I created a new 23 account.
They gave me 2 dots for Italy.
Got 1 dot on the original 23andme results.
I think that by duplicating my DNA-data caused the extra dot in the new results, but in the original I still have 1 dot.
The other dots didn’t change.
I have also found 1 “Close Family to Second Cousins”. lol lol ( I’m my own relative).

 

[davef]

Uh, ok. Shouldn't they like, avoid comparing close relatives? Wasn't there a cousin matcher which showed who you actually share ibd with? Why replace it with this stupid dot thing?

lame

 

[Salento]

Uh, ok. Shouldn't they like, avoid comparing close relatives? Wasn't there a cousin matcher which showed who you actually share ibd with? Why replace it with this stupid dot thing?

lame

I bet, that if I buy a new 23andme kit, and create again a new account, I’ll get 3 dots for Italy.
The more matches on their system, the more dots you get.
(Clones Included, for now)
——————
Changing Topic for a sec, About a previous post:
If scoring 0.4% Italian is considered to be a “Massive Amount” then by applying this logic Angela (and us) could easily be the Clone of
“Agrippina”:
Related to Emperor Augustus (Pax Augusta), daughter of Germanicus (Sile), sister of Emp. Caligula (Salento), wife of Emp. Claudius (Jovialis), and mother of Emp. Nero (Davef). lol [emoji23]
(All in good fun)

 

[davef]

Lol! I'm Nero.

Wow, lol so you can go up to five if you keep spamming clones into the system. So five dots means you have at least five matches in their db, but why be vague? They could've returned the number, assuming that's the case

 

[Salento]

Lol! I'm Nero.

Wow, lol so you can go up to five if you keep spamming clones into the system. So five dots means you have at least five matches in their db, but why be vague? They could've returned the number, assuming that's the case

We already know that the dots calculation variables favor an incremental value (numbers) on DNA matches, and lower interest value to the ancestry %, regardless of the % amount.
I don’t know specifically if 5 close relatives will result in 5 dots, but will surely help.

 

[Angela]

I bet, that if I buy a new 23andme kit, and create again a new account, I’ll get 3 dots for Italy.
The more matches on their system, the more dots you get.
(Clones Included, for now)
——————
Changing Topic for a sec, About a previous post:
If scoring 0.4% Italian is considered to be a “Massive Amount” then by applying this logic Angela (and us) could easily be the Clone of
“Agrippina”:
Related to Emperor Augustus (Pax Augusta), daughter of Germanicus (Sile), sister of Emp. Caligula (Salento), wife of Emp. Claudius (Jovialis), and mother of Emp. Nero (Davef). lol [emoji23]
(All in good fun)

Decided to add that "and us" did you?

For the record, my children adore me, Salento.

 

[Sizzles]

Ancestry
36% southern euro Sicily
26% east euro Croatian north
Italy, bosnia Herzegovina
4% Caucasus
2% middle east

23&me
43.4% balkan Croatia
14.5% italy
10.7% broadly southern euro
2.1% eastern euro slovenia

 

[New Englander]

Total: 58.30%

Italian: 36.40%
Broadly Southern European: 20.00%
Balkan: 1.90%

 

[AdeoF]

I already posted mine in a different post. But I go 3 dots for Spain and 1 dot for Portugal. I find it odd that Sile has 5 dots for Italy