Gannicus
Regular Member
- Messages
- 243
- Reaction score
- 14
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- 0
- Ethnic group
- Albanian - ?celt? - tosk - myzeqjar
- Y-DNA haplogroup
- R1b-L51
- mtDNA haplogroup
- H7
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It's an Wikipedia map not supported by scientific papers. It show an migration of Albanians in XIV century from North in today Albania but in XI and XII Albanians were in Greece:
History of the community and the language
The first Christian Albanian migrations to what is today Greek territory took place as early as the XI-XII centuries (Trudgill, 1975:5; Banfi, 1994:19), although the main ones most often mentioned in the bibliography happened in the XIV-XV centuries, when Albanians were invited to settle in depopulated areas by their Byzantine, Catalan or Florentine rulers (Tsitsipis, 1994:1; Trudgill, 1975:5; Nakratzas, 1992:20-24 & 78-90; Banfi, 1994:19). According to some authors, they were also fleeing forced Islamization by the Turks in what is today Albania (Katsanis, 1994:1). So, some have estimated that, when the Ottomans conquered the whole Greek territory in the XV century, some 45% of it was populated by Albanians (Trudgill, 1975:6). Another wave of Muslim Albanian migrations took place during the Ottoman period, mainly in the XVIII century (Trudgill, 1975:6; Banfi, 1994:19). All these Albanians are the ancestors of modern-day Arvanites in Central and Southern Greece.
Seveal Albanian migrations to Greece took place in the XI-XV centuries. A nice way to start learning about them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsbOixdeUbs.
Then start to learn the history of Albania:@LABERIA
yes i heard about the albanian clan system, just watching to the skanderbeg movie you can have a basic idea of that.
Sorry for all the confusion i create, but the web is full of trash amd don't know when dogging how to distinguish mood by gold, so at least know that if I say something sow rong to be almost provokative it's because i can't distinguish the credibility of the sources, sorry for this.
E-V13 likely came from the Near East/Anatolia or even North Africa directly to Western Balkans 8000 years ago, but its boom was much later. E-V13 generally is ultra-Thracian/Daco-Moesian and only after that Greek and Illyrian. If you take out E-V13 basically Thracians/Daco-Moesians almost do not exist, because some of other Thracian R-Z2103's or R-Z93's simply do not have diversity or numbers..
E-V13 clades found in Albanians are usually younger, and almost all of them (bar PH1246 and one CTS5856*) have distant point of origin in Eastern Balkans. That includes both Z5017 and Z5018. Having said that, lack of PH1246 in Bulgaria clearly shows E-V13 is not native to that area so such high diversity is a consequence of a migration. Some younger V13 found in Albanians seem to have ties with central Europe, and look to have been part of Urnfield movements.
E-V13 among Albanians seems divided in 1) Illyrian clades, 2) illirianised Triballian clades 3) Early Medieval arrivals from Eastern/Central Balkans. This is not case with Albanian J-L283 which seems generally dominantly Illyrian in origin.
Illyrians were a mix. L283's did not arrive in this EIA movement, they arrived to Balkans a millennium earlier. So antiquity Illyrians were a mix of these 2 major blocks, L283 who arrived earlier and R1b-U152 clades from Central Europe, some younger but widespread E-V13 clades (such as clades under L241 and some under CTS9320 and also Y145455), also likely J1-ZS3128 and you might add BY611 there if its origin is in the West, as presence of some distant BY611 clades in Italy fit nicely with this.
You can't have these generalized views, about movements as if all of these older SNP's had same migration paths.
Greece is certainly not the place where E-V13 originates from. Even E-V13 clades which seem Ancient Greek are younger and have distant point of origin northwards. Except one isolated PH1246 which might represent an earlier Cetina time migration.
IIRC, this paper
.
Y-chromosomal analysis of Greek Cypriots reveals a primarily common pre-Ottoman paternal ancestry with Turkish Cypriots
Alexandros Heraclides , Evy Bashiardes , Eva Fernández-Domínguez, Stefania Bertoncini, Marios Chimonas, Vasilis Christofi,
Jonathan King, Bruce Budowle, Panayiotis Manoli, Marios A. Cariolou
PLOS
Published: June 16, 2017
.
states that E-V13 origin is cyprus.............I will need to revist this
.
btw, Triballian tribes are thracians and not illyrian
no comment from myself on this link below
.
http://global-politics.eu/refuting-...ans-illyro-albanians-daco-moesians-thracians/
Vladislav B. SOTIROVIĆ
Founder & Editor of POLICRATICUS-Electronic Magazine On Global Politics Since 2014 (www.global-politics.eu). Contact: [email protected]
You're doing a hard work to make Albanians some kind of Daco/Karpian descendants. It will fail as any other non/native theory of Serbian extremist circles. Don't spend your time with inutility.
During the iron age, when we had a boom of Illyrian expansion further south and east either into Tracian lands, some formerly Tracian areas were absorbed by Illyrians, such as the tribes of proto Tribali,proto Maedi,proto Dardani etc.
This may have been the source for the Ev13 into modern Albanian.
Albanian don't have the Tracian R1a-Z93, which is the core of the Tracian element. Without it there would not be an IE Tracian language.
IE languages do not exist without their R1 haplo.
Please, tell one IE language without its branch of R1 haplogroup.
You're doing a hard work to make Albanians some kind of Daco/Karpian descendants. It will fail as any other non/native theory of Serbian extremist circles. Don't spend your time withinutility.
During the iron age, when we had a boom of Illyrian expansion further south and east either into Tracian lands,some formerly Tracian areas were absorbed by Illyrians, such as the tribes of proto Tribali,proto Maedi,proto Dardani etc.
This may have been the source for the Ev13 into modern Albanian.
Albanian don't have the Tracian R1a-Z93, which isthe core of the Tracian element. Without it there would not be an IE Tracian language.
IE languages do not exist without their R1 haplo.
Please, tell one IE language without its branchof R1 haplogroup.
Wellobserved Pyro the Ilir boy!
He claims for his own clade that is Tatar or Avar in origin while his clade is being
dominated mostly by Albanians with TMRCA in 900 BC. So, early Illyrian period.
Heis Montenegrin assimilated Shqiptari.
Hisentire thesis he wrote there is at least to say ridiculous, he thinksE-v13 entered directly from Africa into Europe 8000 years ago, whilehe neglects exclusively European found E-L618 from which later alsoexclusively european E-v13 developed, also that it has presence inNeolithic Europe in times of pre-v13 SNP formed 8000 years ago.
Iwanted to contradict his post, but i didnt want to hear him cryingagain that i am jealous because all Albanians are liking his postswhile i am criticising.
Also I see new Albanian Z16988 from Skrapar: YF63299. Is he of some already established clade or?
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