hrvat22
Regular Member
Our university branches can do that, of course in co-operation with Universities from Western Europe and USA.
Probably yes.
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Our university branches can do that, of course in co-operation with Universities from Western Europe and USA.
Probably yes.
I use raw data from Serbian portal Poreklo or Albanian portals etc. They are needed because they are more detailed. I also use public Y DNA bases and YFull. But I'm talking about statistics for some area or country. For that I think we should have peer-reviewed sources, although we may encounter problems in them as well.
He's Albanian. He identifies as Albanian, and will form a young cluster among Albanians, regardless of his most distant ancestry. He is autosomally clustering with Albanians as well.
You like every other a product of post-communist revisionism peddling the same bs.
They are Albanians, and the majority identify as such. It's not for you to decide what they are. Otherwise you Albanians from Macedonia are equally just Torbesh/Shka. So lay off the propaganda.
Who am I to do that?
Who are you to tell me what I can and cannot do with my money?
What authority do you have? Absolutely NONE.
I do with my money as I please.
Instead of whining about underrepresented/undersampled regions, I went ahead and gathered substantial money I WORKED FOR, and contributed it to the villages and regions I wanted tested.
Not only for the purpose of unraveling my fis, but for the purpose of representing Dibra and Western Macedonia as a whole, who have had practically no contribution outside of the Mountainous tribal regions or individual testers.
So, why don't you mind your business and don't tell me what I can and can't do with my money.
What I have sponsored has been included in population statistics because they are part of the population. Excluding data you don't like is just as bad if not worse than your claim of manipulating data and cherry picking to "deflate E-V13". Which you still have failed to provide any evidence for.
Could you elaborate what you mean by that?
As an Albanian from Macedonia I find that weird...
But wanna hear what makes you type that before I respond with any studies and statistics.
Hawk is claiming Albanians of Golloborde are all Gorani/Bulgarian simply because of minority groups living there and due to post communist error propaganda that lingered on from Hoxha regime which has been reinforced by Macedonian and Bulgarian propaganda machine.
My answer to your question is that there is equal amount of propaganda trying to claim Albanians in Macedonia were originally Macedonian/Bulgarian. If we are to alienate one subset of the Albanian population using propaganda, one can't neglect the others suffering the same falsehood.
Obviously Albanians in Macedonia are Albanian. But thats slowly changing for instance in Diber Madhe and some other areas where Torbesh and Slavs are being relocated to former Albanian villages that are now underpopulated or abandoned and claiming the Albanians still there are "assimilated Slavs". Which is a lie.
But this same lie is peddled against Albanians in Golloborde. Which for the most part don't call it that. At least those of us from the west where they only speak Albanian. Only in Eastern parts they speak both languages. Dual linguistic villages are also common in Macedonian Albanians. And in Albanians of Montenegro.
So if people like Hawk want to spread bs, he's in the same boat because the propaganda against Albanians of Macedonia is growing even more.
No sensible Albanian would believe it though. Just fighting fire with fire lol.
I'm not the one with issues and zpreading lies. You are.You seem to have a lot of issues and you are eager to lie/project immediately, it explains why you were eager to sponsor kits so you become a factor within that project.
I'm not the one spreading lies. You are. So please do us all a favor and create your own project so you can be the chief E-V13 admin. Then I'm sure it will be free of all lies and manipulation(sarcasm).
I'm eager to sponsor kits because I put my money where my mouth is. Unlike you who barks alot of accusations and commands and doesn't do squat about it.
And Gorani are from Kukes and Prizren btw, not Golloborde. Learn the difference. That would be Bulgaro-Macedonians and Torbesh.
They still only make a minority and mostly concentrated in the East of the region of Golloborde any way.
You are potentially risky, because you hold grudges.
Hawk is claiming Albanians of Golloborde are all Gorani/Bulgarian simply because of minority groups living there and due to post communist error propaganda that lingered on from Hoxha regime which has been reinforced by Macedonian and Bulgarian propaganda machine.
My answer to your question is that there is equal amount of propaganda trying to claim Albanians in Macedonia were originally Macedonian/Bulgarian. If we are to alienate one subset of the Albanian population using propaganda, one can't neglect the others suffering the same falsehood.
Obviously Albanians in Macedonia are Albanian. But thats slowly changing for instance in Diber Madhe and some other areas where Torbesh and Slavs are being relocated to former Albanian villages that are now underpopulated or abandoned and claiming the Albanians still there are "assimilated Slavs". Which is a lie.
But this same lie is peddled against Albanians in Golloborde. Which for the most part don't call it that. At least those of us from the west where they only speak Albanian. Only in Eastern parts they speak both languages. Dual linguistic villages are also common in Macedonian Albanians. And in Albanians of Montenegro.
So if people like Hawk want to spread bs, he's in the same boat because the propaganda against Albanians of Macedonia is growing even more.
No sensible Albanian would believe it though. Just fighting fire with fire lol.
You have already been reported for your childish antics. I have no grudges. You really don't want to see what a Dibran with grudges looks like. Good day.
I see. Seems I was correct not to jump the gun, and rather try to get the point first.
Thing is, people need to understand, haplogroups have nothing to do with being nationality(nothing* is a hyperbole but you get my point).
If say, some branches of R1a and I2a1 etc were incorporated into the Albanians speaking communities after the IX century, and fought along Skenderbeg and other Albanian nobles in 1440's (500 years later), and were active during countless uprisings against imperial powers in the region, and part of Rilindja. Who is to say they are not Albanian? Who gives these people the right to say such things?
First you had Illyrians, Epirotes and Ancient Macedonias who likely contributed ancestral stock to the communities in modern Albanians, then you had the principality of Arber, then much later you had the modern Albanian nation. For the record national consciousness all over the world in the modern sense is a product of the XVIII-XIX centuries. By that time countless haplogroups had already been Albanian/proto-Albanian.
That's why in my mind whether you are E-V13, R1b, L283, or R1a, I2a1 or any other haplogroup, does not discount you from being Albanian, nor guarantee you are Albanian. Haplogroups have to do with blood, Albanian nationality has to do with self identification, language, pride and contributing to the national cause.
You wanted to completely change the trajectory of the discussion and my objections. No matter how hard you try, they will remain solid.
I asked you 3 times for evidence about E-V13 manipulation of data and you never provided it. You also called ArchetypeOne an idiot like a child throwing a tantrum when he displayed both project data showing E-V13 dominates.
If you were referring specifically to E-V13 percentages in Macedonia, I tried responding nicely that I'm contributing to this effort to test more there, and you responded with a chip on your shoulder like who you think you are.
Then you said you don't take projects serious that don't have high level admins that are E-V13 as if a person's personal haplogroup effects their character and judgement.
It seems these are all just your personal problems and issues because you haven't provided any evidence and merely added insult to injury.
A total of 314 individuals representing the three major ethno-linguistic groups (ethnic Macedonians, Albanians and Turks) in the Republic of North Macedonia were analyzed for Y-SNPs and Y-STRs using minisequencing and fragment analysis. The haplogroup composition differed remarkably between the three groups with dominance of haplogroup I2 in ethnic Macedonians (28.1%), E1b in Albanians (35.3%) and J2a (34.9%) in Turks, respectively. The haplotype analysis using the YFilerPlus kit disclosed a significant reduction in diversity values (DC, GD) for the Turkish subgroup compared to the Macedonian and Albanian speaking populations. The Y-STR based population analysis revealed a similarity of ethnic Macedonians with neighboring Serbians and Bulgarians. The same holds true for the Albanian speakers from Macedonia and Albania, whereas the Turkish minority in North Macedonia stands apart from the population in Turkey.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1872497319301097
No you insulted us first. You attacked people's intelligence and accuse them of issuing personal attacks while telling me 2 or 3 times today that I have mental issues. Then when Archetype0ne told you to take your pills you cry wolf. Don't dish it out if you can't take it back.I never called any of you any name before you insulted first, that's a fact and everyone can browse the discussion and check the posts.
Here you have it, in your precious project it was 15-17%. That's 17-20% less than official studies, and i am sure your trend will continue. And we don't like the fact we should depend on you for sampling. That's clear enough. I have absolutely nothing against you, it's a matter of integrity. Projects like this should not depend on people with academic background.
No you insulted us first. You attacked people's intelligence and accuse them of issuing personal attacks while telling me 2 or 3 times today that I have mental issues. Then when Archetype0ne told you to take your pills you cry wolf. Don't dish it out if you can't take it back.
You insulted me from your very first response. So don't play the victim.
Any way, as I responded to you before, the sample database for Albanians in Macedonia is still small and I am contributing to this effort in time.
Again how can you expect percentages to remain consistent between 2 different sample groups?
Are you so blinded to think they can possibly know what the result of the collected sample will be? I don't even think the study says where those samples were gathered from. How do you know they didn't only target a few villages?
And if 100 were spread so thin all over, how can you treat 1 or 2 samples a village as indicative of the overall geographic concentration of a specific haplogroup?
What happens if Macedonia reaches 200 samples in the project, with specific regionalizationon(twice as much as the study you're quoting) and the E-V13 remains low?
Are you going to claim that's a lie too?
Where is it cemented in stone that E-V13 will consistently remain 35%? Especially when you're quiting small sample groups?
As an example, there's 2 separe studies on Albanians listing R1a as being somewhere around 4.5% and as high as 14% in one sample group. Both separate peer reviewed papers.
So you don't think this sampling bias phenomenon can occur with E-V13?
R1a was listed as much as 14% in Albanians of Macedonia in one small sample group and as low as 2% in another. Obviously both are not realistic likely.
So, I fail to see how you expect peer review to always be more accurate in this case. You can't pick and choose when it serves your fancy.
Insulting again.This is my first reply to you: https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threa...eir-DNA/page50?p=625126&viewfull=1#post625126
Stop being a drama queen. I think i am fair enough when i say i don't trust you guys and like me (other E-V13) will not trust these projects, unless they are done by peer reviewed papers by academics. Even if it is 1%, we know it's truth.
I'm asking for proof if your criticism in the manipulation of E-V13 in the project. I could believe it for Gjenetika, I don't believe Rrenjet would do that though.
Insulting again.
You're the drama queen buddy. Instead of engaging with a moniker of respect you deflect the logical points people are making as if there's some mass conspiracy against E-V13 people. And you say I have issues?
Did you bother reading the example I cited of 2 separate peer review papers contradicting eachother on haplogroup frequencies?
One peer review study finds Albanians of Macedonia habe as much as 12.5% R1a. Another peer review finds in a similar sample size of Albanians in Macedonia as low as 1.5% R1a.
How do you explain that discrepancy wise guy?
What will you start saying when another peer review study reports a lower percentage of E-V13?
Will you then pick and choose what makes you happy?
Or at least comprehend these studies are not gospel truth and also subject to the same sample bias you accused both projects of?
Grow up.
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