Dacian Language

[iapetoc]

Based on the list of reconstructed Dacian words, there are more similarities between those Dacian words and Lithuanian than between Lithuanian and Slavic (ie Russian) equivalents of the same words.

This extreme similarity should be explained somehow. Should Latvian and Prussian words were compared, there would be even more similar words between Dacian and Baltic languages.

One explanation to this similarity can be about timing in comparing languages, which also plays a role - Dacian stoped developed at 4th century, while Slavic languages started developing their differences from that point on, and therefore, there are more similarities betweeen Lithuanian (which is very consevative) and Dacian than between Lithuanian and Slavic at this point of development).

Regarding sound laws - I have posted a reference to some articles (sorry it is a bit longish and complex :sad-2 where the authors claims that Dacian is an Eastern Baltic language because it underwent sound change typical also for Lithuanian, ks - sk, while Western Baltic languages (Prussian) don't have it.

there is also the christianity times,
remamber that original Slavic cultures are the ones who connected with CYrillic Alphabet.
perhaps a full slavonization had happened that times, or a reform and reconstruction of ancient languages,

just think of a rulling class that promotes the bible and an alphabet in tribal, same time, that creates a literature same time all the area of expand that have a common basis of language and written, the more powerfull the reform of cyrillic the more results,

just think in Alaska what had happened, in some islands people still speak Russian although in USA,
the cyrillic eliminated many pre-slavic and forced a united Slavic culture,
that means that differences from Samara, Urals to Croatia differences should have been bigger, but cyrillic flat them all, and bring closer the language,

 

[LeBrok]

Perhaps there are sound law in such changes?

English Dacian Lithuanian Russian

good geras geras horoshii Dacian Lithuanian "g" to Rusian "h"
mapple klevas klevas klion Dacian Lithuanian "v-(as)" to "n"
dry sausas sausas suhoi Dacian Lithuanian "s" to Russian "h"
cold galtis šaltis holod Dacian "g" to Lith. "š" and Russ. "h"
stone akmon akmuo kamen Dacian "on" to Lith. "uo" Russ "ka"


Both Lith. and Dacian have endings noun endings as/a/is,
adjectives in -us and -as -a

That's interesting Dagne, good job, and very intriguing.

 

[LeBrok]

there is also the christianity times,
remamber that original Slavic cultures are the ones who connected with CYrillic Alphabet.
perhaps a full slavonization had happened that times, or a reform and reconstruction of ancient languages,

just think of a rulling class that promotes the bible and an alphabet in tribal, same time, that creates a literature same time all the area of expand that have a common basis of language and written, the more powerfull the reform of cyrillic the more results,

,

Interesting, and at first glance it made sense. Then I thought that Poland and Czechs didn't take faith from orthodox, but from Rome. Plus all bibles and books were written in Latin and german till 14th hundreds, the mas in church was in latin till end of 18 hundreds. On top of it uneducated population, at 90 percentile of all population, was living in villages till 18 hundreds too.
I (being polish) can understand 95% of serb vocabulary how yes know posts as Serb translation, when comparing to other languages.
As intriguing as it is, we can rest this case.

 

[iapetoc]

Interesting, and at first glance it made sense. Then I thought that Poland and Czechs didn't take faith from orthodox, but from Rome. Plus all bibles and books were written in Latin and german till 14th hundreds, the mas in church was in latin till end of 18 hundreds. On top of it uneducated population, at 90 percentile of all population, was living in villages till 18 hundreds too.
I (being polish) can understand 95% of serb vocabulary how yes know posts as Serb translation, when comparing to other languages.
As intriguing as it is, we can rest this case.

nope,
they both accept from cyrill, that time was not catholic and orthodox, so your question is answered,

you may read the life of cyrill, the rome just forbid him to teach the germans, not the rest,
in fact cyrill and method wrote in Bohemian language, cause there they transalate the bibble, remamber that cyrill is the 3rd translation of old testament and 2nd of new testament

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Moravia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyril_and_Method

in fact their comments if you read them are named

evangelium slovenicum via method

in fact due to some pre-latin missionairies they used the Latin language not the Greek,

remember that time there were not katholics not orthodox, we are before schisma,
simply Roman church did allowed other language except Latin in the testimony,
while the Con/polis church allow testimony to be in another language than Greek,
remamber that at that time the difference of churches was the language,

Jerusalem Hebrew+greek
Antiocheian Arabic+greek
Alaxandreia Egyptian-Koptic +Greek
Rome Latin +greek
Con/plolis Greek +Latin

then started the slavonic patriarchate in Latin some and in Slavic +Greek to some,
after were the schisma and after the UNIA-tes
700-800 years after started the German translation and reformation


that means that the language that first translate considered slavonic is the Great moravia language,
so a reformation and first literature was priviledge of some and first slavonic schools and faculties used the cirillic language and alphabet, that reconstruct the Slavic language,

that means that words enter some areas, while the grammar bacame same to all.

you can compare with καθαρευουσα a test in Greece,
greece was 90% uneducated in 1800, a new form of language name 'cleaning' in 1940, 120 years after 66% of people knew the language, that means in 3 generations language change, from demotic ancient and dialects to the new form,

think that slavic how many years were Elit in these areas.

with the above I don't claim that all people learned Slavic, simply some smaller forms of tribal languages, some other languages lost, and big diferences among pre-slavic became smoother.
just think what happened with koine in Greek language,

 

[LeBrok]

The point was that influence of translated bible on Slavic language was negligible. It wasn't a force uniting Slavic languages.

you can compare with καθαρευουσα a test in Greece,
greece was 90% uneducated in 1800, a new form of language name 'cleaning' in 1940, 120 years after 66% of people knew the language, that means in 3 generations language change, from demotic ancient and dialects to the new form,

Now this is the force of modern public education, plus newspapers, books, and national radio. You can't compare it to few missionaries teaching bible in villages from time to time.

 

[how yes no 2]

Iapetoc,
you are grossly overstating role of christianisation...Slavic people had common language much before they were turned into Christians... turning barbarians into Christians was a way for Romans and Greeks to try put under control people they called barbarians... another dimension is that churches are organisations that tend to make lot of effort to extend their influence...that did reflect in process of creation of some nations and have caused many wars, but it is not what spread languages... be sure of that...
besides Christianity is way too confused teaching (made of two contradicting ethics) to have such power... I think languages are spread with more advanced material civilization, with better life standard, through witty assimilation that makes people feel they don't belong to older ethnic group and making them feel belong to new ones... as Roman empire did by thoughtfully confusing names of regions and by granting everyone into position of Roman citizens regardless of origin....

besides so called church Slavonic is somewhat weird language that was not really understandable for most Slavic people... at least in Serbia typically only priests can somewhat understand it.. and it was like that in past as well....I am not versed in linguistic, or speaker of other Slavic languages except of Serbo-Croatian, but the church Slavonic is to my ear and to my reading capabilities by far most foreign and most hard to understand of all Slavic languages....and following your logic it should be source of all and thus most easy to understand....

in medieval period, while usage of church Slavonic was used by Serb writers to write books, our literature was poor and far away from masses and most people were illiterate... when Vuk Karadzic came with new phonetic alphabet and key line "write as you speak, read as it is written" that extended not just on phonetic alphabet but also on vocabulary used, situation turned into opposite - suddenly there was lot of good writers and lot of literate people.... point is church Slavonic was essentially foreign, artificial language not understandable by common people... it was not advancing language spread, it was instead slowing down cultural development... Vuk Karadzic had to fight lot of opposition coming from church people in order to bring every day speech into literature.. making literature available to everyone (not just to those who spend years in monasteries learning that weird language) took a way monopoly over education and literature from church...

 

[iapetoc]

The point was that influence of translated bible on Slavic language was negligible. It wasn't a force uniting Slavic languages.



Now this is the force of modern public education, plus newspapers, books, and national radio. You can't compare it to few missionaries teaching bible in villages from time to time.

are you sure?

from 1453 (the fall of istanbull until 1820, the only who knew to read and write were few rich people and the church inn Greece and in balkans,
a greek in an area that Greek language was forbiden like in Armenia Kars, knew xristos Anesti (Christ ressurected) not to spell it and write it but the whole 10 minute pray song (hymn)
in fact in many areas were Greek were forbiden the cristians learn whole church testimonies by heart,

Nop in fact I believe it was not from time time, but the ones who wanted to be priest learn a certain form and terminology in the beginning of Slavic churches, which later with times became different, espacially after schisma,

just think that majority of people learn letters and reading by priests and not teachers, or teachers also were priests, and how many big schools existed?
in fact at that time the only universities that allow to teach should be theocratic and perhaps even aristotle was teached under the 'priest supervisor' if teached,
remember we are talking about 'the earth is flat' times.
before crusades were faith was ultimate weapon and a cleric was half ruller,
we are talking to last Genocides of polytheist in Greece at 850 Ad.

 

[LeBrok]

I'm sure.
From 1000 AD the dominant force was Latin in schools and church in Poland. And yet polish is mutually intelligible with other Slavic languages from north to south and west to east.
Till 1000 AD Poland was a pagan country with weak influence from Great Moravs Christianity. In 966 Poland was baptized, mainly for political reasons, not by will of people. Through 10 hundreds there were pagan revolts. It means that ordinary people were not christians and didn't learn much from Cyril bible.
I would say that the biggest divide between farthest Slavic languages is like Italian and Spanish or Portuguese.

 

[zanipolo]

Now this is the force of modern public education, plus newspapers, books, and national radio. You can't compare it to few missionaries teaching bible in villages from time to time.

Its more like racism against ones own national cultures...........like franco's castilian "wars" against the catalan and galician people, although less violent
It still goes on today even though European governments have signed a declaration to stop doing it to enter the EU

 

[zanipolo]

are you sure?

from 1453 (the fall of istanbull until 1820, the only who knew to read and write were few rich people and the church inn Greece and in balkans,
a greek in an area that Greek language was forbiden like in Armenia Kars, knew xristos Anesti (Christ ressurected) not to spell it and write it but the whole 10 minute pray song (hymn)
in fact in many areas were Greek were forbiden the cristians learn whole church testimonies by heart,

Nop in fact I believe it was not from time time, but the ones who wanted to be priest learn a certain form and terminology in the beginning of Slavic churches, which later with times became different, espacially after schisma,

just think that majority of people learn letters and reading by priests and not teachers, or teachers also were priests, and how many big schools existed?
in fact at that time the only universities that allow to teach should be theocratic and perhaps even aristotle was teached under the 'priest supervisor' if teached,
remember we are talking about 'the earth is flat' times.
before crusades were faith was ultimate weapon and a cleric was half ruller,
we are talking to last Genocides of polytheist in Greece at 850 Ad.

merchants, generals, priests, aristocrats all knew how to read and write, but.........only the nobility and the church where taught Latin.

As for the slavic illiterates, the numbers was very high due to the assimilation of races as they migrated westerly, so illyrians, dacians, vlachs, albanians, celts and whoever there was was forbidden to speak their language and could only speak slavic, a language foreign to them.
The "lingua franca" ( commerce language) for the merchant class was based on areas of trade. as well as the time period.

 

[iapetoc]

I'm sure.
From 1000 AD the dominant force was Latin in schools and church in Poland. And yet polish is mutually intelligible with other Slavic languages from north to south and west to east.
Till 1000 AD Poland was a pagan country with weak influence from Great Moravs Christianity. In 966 Poland was baptized, mainly for political reasons, not by will of people. Through 10 hundreds there were pagan revolts. It means that ordinary people were not christians and didn't learn much from Cyril bible.
I would say that the biggest divide between farthest Slavic languages is like Italian and Spanish or Portuguese.

yes but from what I know poland was 2 language or 2 dialect speaking,
by what I know, and you can correct me, krakwy and St Stephans were slavivc people considered with connection with Slovakia almost same race, while Dantsich (however was written) Gdansk were considered Germans that time,
Perhaps that is the why Poland although slavic was in latin education, I think that kept until 1900.
hmm does Poland follow the same rules in syntax and endings like rest slavic do?

 

[iapetoc]

merchants, generals, priests, aristocrats all knew how to read and write, but.........only the nobility and the church where taught Latin.

As for the slavic illiterates, the numbers was very high due to the assimilation of races as they migrated westerly, so illyrians, dacians, vlachs, albanians, celts and whoever there was was forbidden to speak their language and could only speak slavic, a language foreign to them.
The "lingua franca" ( commerce language) for the merchant class was based on areas of trade. as well as the time period.

well I don't know about forbiden, but I know that military was forced to speak the King language,

 

[Dagne]

well I don't know about forbiden, but I know that military was forced to speak the King language,

I have lost the connection to Dacian Language ... What is this dispute all about?

 

[iapetoc]

I have lost the connection to Dacian Language ... What is this dispute all about?

Georgyev and some others believe that south Thracian is the pre-slavic
Duridanov is argue that an Albano-dacian connection is the language of thracians,
and also exist Rusu.

I just say that the wide Slavic of today is based upon the expand of cyrillic who was based in Moravian language or Dialect,
Lebrok believes that changes from faith were little, due to Latin speaking Polish church.
while I believe that krakowy was speaking dialect of Moravian

I am just try to find if some areas were peacefully changed by cyrillic to a new culture that connected old dialects and language to a new form, while expell other.

for example in another thread HOW YES NO believes that Serbian is as Celtic as Slavic, and Daci more Germanic,

Personally I believe that cyrillic reunite and reform languages from dalmatia to urals and from gdansk to Varna, to a more common form to a more stable form, and some older languages and dialect were lost,
It was the basis uppon literature in medieval and schools were based to stabilizze Slavic sounds and words,

In some areas Slavonic could be forced or was a Fushion language due to was spoken by elit (priests, military and kings) or the opposite slavonic were forbiden due to german considered speaking people.

remember that daci in Greek is an alternate for wolf Δακος, roman wolf mother
bite virb ισ δαγκωνω
and Drago a symbol of Dacian (serpent wolf scepter) exist in Athens Drakon law's
also a slavic name Dragan

Greeks call them not daci but Daki (Dakestan?)

for example
is it -ua or uva the end of daci language?

A famous roman ancient ( i missed his name now) that lived there sais that he learned very easy the language, (moesian near latin???)

in fact the most ancient place names are like thracian ending in -is -sse - isa -eda while the later are --oua -ova

an example is the -para -pera with river dnieper (dniepera)
pera exist also in Greek and means far, there, away,
-para is considered Thracian not Daci.

a daci city in Dalmatia is name Germ-idav mention by prolemy.

the Balaur which is considered daci word and folklore
exist in Greek pelasgian and Homeric also,

the myth of St George who killed the dragon
in Greek Apollo who killed Python
in pre-greek Pelasgian the Βελλεροφοντης Veller-ophontis
or Bellerophon

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellerophon

so although seems familiar to Valtic-slavic, instead it is connected with Greek also and south Thracian,

remember that ballaur of daci or Beller of Greeks is the IE Homeric Ελλερον
Elleron is the pit of snake, the dragon's nest, in english is Hell
ελλυες are the small poisonous snakes the northen eel modern Greek χελι Helli

now as you see the ballaur exist in Daci and Albania, but also existed in Hettit as Illuyanka
and in Greek as Veller-ophontis Bellerophon,

the possibility that this myth is also in India but in Hettit also could mean that Thracians did not came from Baltic, but from minor asia, since Hettits and Illuanka passed from minor asia to Balkans,
that means that Thracian could be the ones who reach german baltic, although I know that for some that is upside down,

in fact that be true if and i repeat if getae are Goths and Germi-dava means Germanopolis
and daki->daci is Deutch.

in another post somewhere I post the 4 mycenae
mycenae makenae mycian moesian and a possible 5th the moschenae (moschoi)
the connection of daci ballaur and some other could mean south origin and not baltic,

the remnants of daci language are few, as also the thracian, the connection with north is also with south and with minor asia, and persia or avars (dagestan)
also the connection of daci drago scepters (wolf serpents-chimairas) is with rome wolf mother, turkish grey wolf, greek drakon laws, and phillistines Drakon god.


the bellow is off the record, probably a coincidence.
Turkish word for mountain is Dag Greek Νταγ to latin form -> Ntac Dac Dagestan -Daci
Besides the medieval name of south dagestan was Albania.

back to point
besides most the Getae king names are in -us which is also Latin or Greek or -es or -on etc,
yes I know that Baltic also having ending with -is -as etc,
try to connect greek water υδωρ u as ou in you but short δ as th in they ω ας 1.5 time of o and ρ ασ r
the most amazing with modern languages is with a Baltic word for water !!!!

Sarmizegetusa the dacian capital is like Hettit or Hattians Ηattusa not -ova.

 

[Dagne]

Rusu and some others believe that ancient Dacian were like Latin and not like slavic,
Georgyev and some others believe that south Thracian is the pre-slavic
Duridanov is argue that an Albano-dacian connection is the language of thracians,

I just say that the wide Slavic of today is based upon the expand of cyrillic who was based in Moravian language or Dialect,
Lebrok believes that changes from faith were little, due to Latin speaking Polish church.
while I believe that krakowy was speaking dialect of Moravian

I am just try to find if some areas were peacefully changed by cyrillic to a new culture that connected old dialects and language to a new form, while expell other.

for example in another thread HOW YES NO believes that Serbian is as Celtic as Slavic, and Daci more Germanic,

Personally I believe that cyrillic reunite and reform languages from dalmatia to urals and from gdansk to Varna, to a more common form to a more stable form, and some older languages and dialect were lost,
It was the basis uppon literature in medieval and schools were based to stabilizze Slavic sounds and words,

In some areas Slavonic could be forced or was a Fushion language due to was spoken by elit (priests, military and kings) or the opposite slavonic were forbiden due to german considered speaking people.

remember that daci in Greek is an alternate for wolf Δακος, roman wolf mother
bite virb ισ δαγκωνω
and Drago a symbol of Dacian (serpent wolf scepter) exist in Athens Drakon law's
also a slavic name Dragan

Greeks call them not daci but Daki (Dakestan?)

Could we then compare words (sound laws if we able to) of Dacian to those other languages? View attachment 4895 All the reconstructed Dacian words are listed there, one may add there another column to compare with greek, slavic, latin, germanic albanian ...

That will be something substantial in persuading others, wouldn't it?

 

[how yes no 2]

remember that daci in Greek is an alternate for wolf Δακος, roman wolf mother
bite virb ισ δαγκωνω
and Drago a symbol of Dacian (serpent wolf scepter) exist in Athens Drakon law's
also a slavic name Dragan

Dragan is typically Serbian name... can occur in Macedonia perhaps, but never heard of other Slavic people with name Dragan....
e.g. it is not used by Croats or Slovenes...

there is more to it, Serbs are related to wolf...
also Lycia whose several leaders had name Sarpedon (which could mean leader of Sarpe) are related to wolf....

even further, I read on net that Troians are named Cimmerians by some authors (e.g. Herodotous and Strabo, but I need to verify that)....
in Troian war, on Trojan side are:

Dardanians led by Aeneas, Zeleians, Adrasteians, Percotians, Pelasgians, Thracians, Ciconian spearmen, Paionian archers, Halizones, Mysians, Phrygians, Maeonians, Miletians, Lycians led by Sarpedon and Carians.

Nothing is said of the Trojan language;

the Carians are specifically said to be barbarian-speaking, and the allied contingents are said to have spoken multiple languages, requiring orders to be translated by their individual commanders.[70]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trojan_War

a daci city in Dalmatia is name Germ-idav mention by prolemy.

this is strong clue...
word German origin from Gomer = Cimmerians...

in fact that be true if and i repeat if getae are Goths and Germi-dava means Germanopolis
and daki->daci is Deutch.

the remnants of daci language are few, as also the thracian, the connection with north is also with south and with minor asia, and persia or avars (dagestan)
also the connection of daci drago scepters (wolf serpents-chimairas) is with rome wolf mother, turkish grey wolf, greek drakon laws, and phillistines Drakon god.

Chimeras is dragon from Lycia...it does sound as Cimmerians

Sarmizegetusa the dacian capital is like Hettit or Hattians Ηattusa not -ova.

idea: Sarmizegetusa sounds as a mix of two tribal names: Sarmatians and Getae..

the Balaur which is considered daci word and folklore
exist in Greek pelasgian and Homeric also,

the myth of St George who killed the dragon
in Greek Apollo who killed Python
in pre-greek Pelasgian the Βελλεροφοντης Veller-ophontis
or Bellerophon

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellerophon

so although seems familiar to Valtic-slavic, instead it is connected with Greek also and south Thracian,

remember that ballaur of daci or Beller of Greeks is the IE Homeric Ελλερον
Elleron is the pit of snake, the dragon's nest, in english is Hell
ελλυες are the small poisonous snakes the northen eel modern Greek χελι Helli

now as you see the ballaur exist in Daci and Albania, but also existed in Hettit as Illuyanka and in Greek as Veller-ophontis Bellerophon,

"ala" in Slavic languages can be word of same origin...it is about monster, dragon...


now, about relation to wolf

Common among the Kashubs of what is now northern Poland, and the Serbs and Slovenes, was the belief that if a child was born with hair, a birthmark or a caul on their head, they were supposed to possess shape-shifting abilities. Though capable of turning into any animal they wished, it was commonly believed that such people preferred to turn into a wolf.[20]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werewolf

wolf is also unofficial national mammal animal of Serbs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_symbols_of_Serbia


and now to what I think ...

first, let me remind you, that Russian primary chronicle places early Slavs (in times before Roman empire has spread northwards) around Danube, in Thrace and Pannonia, and also in Noricum... that would map to some of Thracian tribes (e.g. Triballi), to Pannonians, Scordisci and Veneti
than pushed by Romans they go to north to Vistula where we find Veneti... and than few centuries later Jordanes states that Slavs are of Venethi race...
note that Russian primary chronicle does not place early Slavs in Dacia...
btw. let me remind you that Thracian cult of Sabazios (Saba Zeus or Serbian Zeus) has same hand gesture that is used by Serbs...

in my theory Veneti are represented in Greek mythology as wind gods - Anemoi/Venti (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anemoi) and are proto-Slavs...
I can map east wind god Eurus to tribal names Russians and Thracians, west wind god Zephyros (born in caves of Thrace) to tribal names of Serbs, Serres and Scordisci, and his son Karpus to tribal name of Croats

if Slavs are Veneti, than Balts would be north of Veneti... north most Venti wind God was Borea (Boreans could in fact be about Borussia/Prussia or Belarus...), thus Balts would be people living north of Borea - Hyperboreans, ...

Homer placed Boreas in Thrace, and therefore Hyperborea in his opinion dwelled somewhere to the north of Thracian territory, perhaps Dacia.[8] Sophocles (Antigone, 980-987), Aeschylus (Agamemnon, 193; 651), Simonides of Ceos (Schol. on Apollonius Rhodius, 1. 121) and Callimachus (Delian, [IV] 65) also placed Boreas in Thrace.[9] Other ancient writers however believed the home of Boreas or the Rhipean Mountains sat in a different location. For example, Hecataeus of Miletus believed that the Rhipean Mountains sat adjacent to the Black Sea.[10] Alternatively Pindar placed the home of Boreas, the Rhipean Mountains and Hyperborea all near the Danube.[11] Heraclides Ponticus and Antimachus in contrast identified the Rhipean Mountains with the Alps, and the Hyperboreans as a Celtic tribe (perhaps the Helvetii) who sat just beyond them.[12] Aristotle placed the Rhipean mountains on the borders of Scythia, and Hyperborea further north.[13] Hecataeus of Abdera and others believed Hyperborea was Britain (see below).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperborea

thus, there are clues that Hyperboreans were Dacians...

note that north most Venti wind God Borea is still in Thrace... which is consistent with Russian primary chronicle not placing Slavs in Dacia


Lithuanians and Letonians may derive name from Appolo's and Artemis mother Leto...


anyway, this is key clue

Another late source, Aelian, also links Leto with wolves and Hyperboreans:
Wolves are not easily delivered of their young, only after twelve days and twelve nights, for the people of Delos maintain that this was the length of time that it took Leto to travel from the Hyperboreoi to Delos."[21]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leto

Lithuanians and Latvians may be Hyperboreans whose tribal name is based on name of Leto...
Hyperborean is not tribal name, it just means north of Boreans, or north of north most Venti (I think Venti map to Veneti, and to proto-Slavs)

Leto may have the same Lycian origin as "Leda", meaning "woman/wife" in the ancient Lycian language.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leto

btw. we have word "lady" as spread everywhere but curiously originating from english language...

Lycia is related to wolves... and it could be place of origin of most Balto-Slavs and further...note that Lycia is mentioned, together with Sherdana, among sea peoples as Lukka..note that Lycians are rulled by Sarpedon (don of Serbs?) and are related to wolf, note that Lycians are in Trojan war on side of Trojans, note that Trojans are said to be Cimmerians, and later Cappadocians are first called Cimmerians and later by strabo white Syrians, while state of Zeruiani was so big that all Slavs come from it according to Bavarian geographer... note that sea peoples conquest of Sherdana, Lukka, Tjekker and Pelast (Serbs, Lycians, czechs and Poles?) happens short after Trojan war... short after Trojan war is also time when Veneti are kicked out from Paphlagonia due to joint conquest with Cimmerians.... short after that is also when Etruscans or Rasena move out from Asia minor due to hunger...

now, note that primary god of Asia minor Teshub was in language of Hatti was Taru which is almost identical name as Germanic Thor... note that even one of Germanic tribes has name Hatti
note that Hittite call same God Tarhun which maps to Baltic Perkunas and slavic Perun
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teshub

in my opinion Hatti were Kelts, Goths.... R1b mostly
and Hittite were Balto-Slavs... R1a and I2a

Hittite moved in Asia minor after Hatti went further into Europe
Hittite were moved out under pressure from south and from Greece, mostly by defeat of Trojans, removal of Veneti and movement of Etruscans/Rasena (who contributed to R1a in north Italy)

 

[iapetoc]

Could we then compare words (sound laws if we able to) of Dacian to those other languages? View attachment 4895 All the reconstructed Dacian words are listed there, one may add there another column to compare with greek, slavic, latin, germanic albanian ...

That will be something substantial in persuading others, wouldn't it?

sorry the problem is mine. i can not open acrobat.

k i ll fix it

 

[iapetoc]

Dragan is typically Serbian name... can occur in Macedonia perhaps, but never heard of other Slavic people with name Dragan....
e.g. it is not used by Croats or Slovenes...

by what I know drakon means captain, chief, does it mean the same to serbian also? (dragan)

yes i know about ala, it is clear IE,
i don't know about Serbs being from minor asia, or celtic or daci or thracian, but I know Carians are connected with Corinth, Carnius Apollo, and Carinthia in Slovenia,
personally I believe that are ancient tribes melting pot that is connected with Illyro-celtic, south Thracians and north Moravians, not with minor asia, it is a culture that created around the aquatic system from thessaloniki to Donau.

the case of white Serbia is another story, and i don't know.

 

[how yes no 2]

i don't know about Serbs being from minor asia, or celtic or daci or thracian, but I know Carians are connected with Corinth, Carnius Apollo, and Carinthia in Slovenia,

I do not know where Serbs came from originally...
my guess is that they may origin from Cimmerians/Serians
but point is in distant times Cimmerians/Serians lived in both Asia, Asia minor and Europe... we do know that I2a was present in Europe long time ago...

http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2011_05_01_archive.html


btw. read again second part of my previous post, it was edited later with some interesting ideas...

by what I know drakon means captain, chief, does it mean the same to serbian also? (dragan)

nope...
it's just a name
most similar word is dear, darling - "drag"

though word "drak"/ "drekavac" means something like dragon but smaller...
"dreka"is shouting...

the case of white Serbia is another story, and i don't know.

I think at some point there was mix of I2a2 proto-Serbs and R1a proto-Russians...

a wild guess but perhaps it happened around lake Van when Cimmerians were allied and rulling over Rusa (Hebrew mentioned Rosch people?)...Cimmerians could originally have been Sumerians, while Croats would originally be related Hurians... they have merged into Balto-Slavs (originally R1a) in Hititite state, where they have also adopted IE language..

Germanic haplogroup I people may origin from province of Kerman (also Germania), in Persia, Iran... ... they may have received IE language from R1b in Asia minor and together moved in Europe as IE Kelts/Hatti/Getea/Goths... note that some Roman historians thought that word German meens 'seed' and that it came to existence in order to name original Celts... on other hand, according to Josephus original Celts were Cimmerians or Gomer

Josephus related the Biblical figure Gomer to Galatia (or perhaps to Gaul in general). "For Gomer founded those whom the Greeks now call Galatians, [Galls,] but were then called Gomerites." Antiquities of the Jews, I:6. Others have related Gomer to Cimmerians.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galatia

 

[iapetoc]

how yes no that is another story and dagne will be angry cause second time i ruin her thread.

sory dagne,

Hattians were not IE,
just think
Hattica is athens
Hath -rasians is etruscans
Hath-cretans are eteo-cretans
hath-edi are the other name near phillistines in palaistine

it is mostly a latin and semitic language, that language is connected with Ugarit and minor Asia much before IEans and before hettits.
the hath- is used before the smaller tribal nation
it could be, but I don't know Hath-syrians ->Assyrians
the older language that pelasgian used is half latin and half-ugarit,

well in your story which i have understand Leto comes from Hypervorea to greece and after to minor asia,
Leda is another story,
well the case of a R1a that came from minor asia to balkans suits me more cause copper was found in Egypt and cyprus much before in north of caucas, in fact i believe that R1a came in 2 waves 1 small from minor asia, and 1 bigger at the know slavic invasions,

in your theory you support that thracians came from minor asia and not from north, as I understand,
now what about Vrygians? were they celtic or baltic. I don't know times and dates i have to search it for days,
all I know is that sarpedon was connected with Cretans,


Sory dagne i will answer tomorrow your Daci thread.