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Thread: What is the most common Y Dna Haplogroup in Sicily and Southern Italy?

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Doe View Post
    How much Greek influence do you think exists in southern Italy and eastern Sicily (perhaps less so culturally as that has been overtaken by Romanisation 2,000 years ago but genetically, i.e IBD with Greeks)?
    Not all southern Italy was colonized by the Greeks, the areas with bigger influences were East and South Sicily, South and Eastern Calabria and Salento though.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Hauteville View Post
    Not all southern Italy was colonized by the Greeks, the areas with bigger influences were East and South Sicily, South Calabria and Salento though.
    Yea, the areas known as Magna Graecia. There are still a Greek speaking minority there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Doe View Post
    Yea, the areas known as Magna Graecia. There are still a Greek speaking minority there.
    http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greci_di_Messina
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griko_people
    http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grecia_salentina

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post

    I believe there are one or two unfortunate souls who spend at least 18 hours a day in their mothers' basements churning out thousands of posts like this all over anthrofora. One young man now has City Data sites devoted to it, and a whole raft of Youtube videos. Lucky you if your attention hasn't been drawn to this phenomena.

    The only difference between me and Hauteville is that I treat such posts with the disregard that they deserve. Well, at least most of the time. :)

    Ed. I think the comments by our new poster have to be put in context in terms of the source and the motivation behind it.
    They are called T R O L L S I think there has been more then one on and off on these fora, usually making aggressive statements on their first post and probably same persons under different accounts

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/*****_%28Internet%29

    oops sorry T R O L L is banned it seems..... one has to google for T R O L L (Internet) a good description there ;)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I believe there are one or two unfortunate souls who spend at least 18 hours a day in their mothers' basements churning out thousands of posts like this all over anthrofora. One young man now has City Data sites devoted to it, and a whole raft of Youtube videos. Lucky you if your attention hasn't been drawn to this phenomena.

    The only difference between me and Hauteville is that I treat such posts with the disregard that they deserve. Well, at least most of the time. :)

    Ed. I think the comments by our new poster have to be put in context in terms of the source and the motivation behind it.
    I didn't know this phenomenon because I'm not really into these so called "anthrofora". Anyway, I checked some of these fora and I found the posts and thread of a bunch of people you're talking about. I'm no psychologist but I think that at least some of them, but maybe all of them, have some sort of personality disorder. Ignoring their activities would even be healing for their minds. Unfortunately, the internet amplifies, and pervertedly exalts, weird theories, thoughts and obsessions of problematic people, instead of helping them.
    Nullum magnum ingenium mixtura dementiae fuit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matera View Post
    What is the most common Y Dna Haplogroup in Sicily and Southern Italy? which Haplogroups links certain migrations in Sicily and Southern Italy from around the Mediterranean?
    I think you are from Matera. That city was studied by Sarno and Boattini (but with only 25 samples) and the haplogroup frequency is.
    E-V12 4%
    E-V13 8%
    E-V22 8%
    E-M123 4%
    G1-M285 4%
    G2a 24%
    I2-P215 4%
    J2a 12%
    J2b 8%
    R1a 4%
    R1b-M269 8%
    R1b-U152 4%
    T 8%

    http://journals.plos.org/plosone/art...l.pone.0065441

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hauteville View Post
    I think you are from Matera. That city was studied by Sarno and Boattini (but with only 25 samples) and the haplogroup frequency is.
    E-V12 4%
    E-V13 8%
    E-V22 8%
    E-M123 4%
    G1-M285 4%
    G2a 24%
    I2-P215 4%
    J2a 12%
    J2b 8%
    R1a 4%
    R1b-M269 8%
    R1b-U152 4%
    T 8%

    http://journals.plos.org/plosone/art...l.pone.0065441
    Very neolithic (G2) influenced, and also "ancient greek-like", if I'm not wrong. I read that neolithic italians (let's call them this way...), fled to mountain and faraway regions when italics came down the peninsula. Basilicata is quite far from the native area of italics, and it's a mountain region, too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Stop acting so defensive and desperate to prove that there are no genetic connections of South Italy to other mediterranean populations. It doesn't say much about Algerians or Lebanese but it says a lot about you, about set of your mind.
    The only desperate people I see here a low level users like this "Adamo" who spreads false notions like "50% of South Italians are J2 or E1b1b carriers", while those haplogroups make a third of total y-dna lineages at best.

    Also none is denying anything here, we just want to correct misinformation.

    For example: the Levantine component ENF from Eurogenes K8 is about 65% in South Italians, 55% in North Italians and 45% in pure Nordic Germans/Central Europeans. It looks like a cline to me, which can be easily explained by Neolitich demic diffusion.

    Also North Europeans have about 15-20% of ANE component which peaks in South American natives, so we must assume that North Europeans should look like mestizos...
    Last edited by giuseppe rossi; 10-03-15 at 16:33.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Well, I can't speak for Hauteville, but I certainly don't suffer from NEAD (Near Eastern Aversion Disorder...my own pop psych category, I hasten to add) and I also get pretty tired of this constant drumbeat about southern Italians from anthrofora types.

    I believe there are one or two unfortunate souls who spend at least 18 hours a day in their mothers' basements churning out thousands of posts like this all over anthrofora. One young man now has City Data sites devoted to it, and a whole raft of Youtube videos. Lucky you if your attention hasn't been drawn to this phenomena.

    The only difference between me and Hauteville is that I treat such posts with the disregard that they deserve. Well, at least most of the time. :)

    Ed. I think the comments by our new poster have to be put in context in terms of the source and the motivation behind it.
    Hahahahahaha

    I dunno for you, but I really doubt that this unfortunate soul will ever post group photos of Southern Italians like these.










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    Quote Originally Posted by giuseppe rossi View Post
    The only desperate people I see here a low level users like this "Adamo" who spreads false notions like "50% of South Italians are J2 or E1b1b carriers", while those haplogroups make a third of total y-dna lineages at best.

    Also North Europeans have about 15-20% of ANE component which peaks in South American natives, so we must assume that North Europeans should look like mestizos...

    Also none is denying anything here, we just want to correct misinformation.
    Are you sure you don't have NEAR syndrome?
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Are you sure you don't have NEAR syndrome?
    No but surely you seem to suffer of Psychological projection.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psyc...cal_projection

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    Quote Originally Posted by giuseppe rossi View Post
    No but surely you seem to suffer of Psychological projection.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psyc...cal_projection
    Explain how you got to this conclusion?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Are you sure you don't have NEAR syndrome?
    LeBrok, I must protest! I coined the phrase Near East Aversion Disorder (NEAD). Is this copyright infringement??? I do like the fact that it now spells "near" however, as in NEAR east!

    What could the R stand for...[R]evulsion? Near East Aversion Revulsion? Rather [r]epetitive isn't it?


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    Quote Originally Posted by giuseppe rossi View Post
    Hahahahahaha

    I dunno for you, but I really doubt that this unfortunate soul will ever post group photos of Southern Italians like these.

    Of course he won't. Neither will the few others who spend all their waking hours posting the darkest Italians they can find in order to prove that the groups to which they beare not the "darkest" Europeans. These are obviously mentally disturbed as well as probably racially mixed young men if I put on my amateur psychologist hat. Does that mean you have to rise to the bait? Don't you see that by caring about this ***** you also reveal that you accept the underlying assumption that to be "fairer" is to be somehow "better"? Where do you get that? It's absolutely foreign to me. It would seem to me that a psychologically healthy people with a sense of self-worth and self-esteem would see it's own group as the standard for "attractiveness" for just one example. Why would you accept someone else's standard. It makes no sense to me.

    As for the pictures you









    No, I'm sure he wouldn't, from my limited exposure to his "work". (I can't stand to read much of it...my intolerance and impatience with fools is legendary.)

    However, he and a few others like him are obviously psychologically damaged as well as probably racially conflicted young men, or they are brainwashed young men indoctrinated by the pernicious "White Supremacist" type groups making a comeback in Europe who have been "traumatized" because they are seen as the "darkest" Europeans, and so want desperately to prove someone ELSE is actually darker, even if they have to spend all their waking hours posting thousands of pictures of the darkest Sicilians they can find. (Obviously they're all sick young people to one degree or another. They're certainly not holding down a challenging job or pursuing a really arduous academic program, and I doubt they're successful early retirees.)

    Does that mean you have to rise to the bait every single time, or descend to their level? Don't you also see that by responding in this way you show that you are implicitly accepting their definitions and their standards? What's up with that? While not looking upon it as some sort of badge of honor, and while appreciating the diversity in the world, it seems to me that any psychologically sound person or group would not find huge percentages of their variation "unacceptable" or less worthy, and would wish to look more like some foreign group. In my opinion, to put it at a basic level, there is something wrong with someone who accepts the standards and judgments on these matters created by people not their own. Some type of brainwashing has been going on, either on a cultural or more specifically individual level. Just my two cents.

    Oh, and the people you posted look like normal Southern Italians. They don't look like Swedes, or Germans or Levantines or any other bizarre comparison, although certain individuals might "pass" in other places.. There is nothing wrong with that. I certainly have never thought so. I fell madly in love with one of them at first sight...and he looked like a cross between Fabio Ceravolo and Joe Manganiello, not like Stefano Casiraghi or my father.

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    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    In Sicily J2 is most common owning 28% of men. R1b is just behind with 25% and E3b is also at about 25%. In southern Italy its about 25-30% R1b 25% J2 and 20-25% E3b, these are by far the most common with another 20% split between a wide assortment of rarer and less dominant haplogroups in this area. J2 originated near southern turkey/ northern Syria / northwestern Iraq. Look it up on Wikipedia to see which countries have the highest j2 frequencies there is an extensive list, turkey, Lebanon, Armenia, northern Iraq, northwestern Iran, Georgia, Greece ( 20%) the greek island of Crete has high frequencies, southern Italy, Sicily. R1b is "Celtic". Highest frequencies in Ireland, England, Scotland, France, holland, Belgium, Spain and Portugal ( Iberia is a lot less "antonio banderas" Mediterranean than most genetic amateurs may think it fits in just right with pale Germanic R1b people's), Germany, Switzerland, north Italy etc. E3b is found in non-negroid North Africans such as Egyptians, Libyans, Tunisians, Algerians, Moroccans. The most common in Sicily would be J2 but R1b is very close behind and E3b right after. What we can deduce from this is that the J2 represents Fertile Crescent-Mesopotamian-middle eastern genetic influx, R1b represents Western European Germanic "Celtic" blood and E3b represents strictly north-African blood of a non-black type. Southern mainland Italy has a similar distribution but less J2 more 25% instead of 30% and R1b is about 25-30%, e3b is 20-25%. In other words the genetic structure of southern Italy + Sicily has a more equal distribution between these 3 haplogroups, thus pointing to more middle eastern/north African lineages in these regions. Central Italy has 40-45% R1b , 20% J2 and 10% E3b so there is much more white man "Celtic" blood and about the same/slightly less middle eastern blood with the E3b being about half that in southern Italy/Sicily ( now 10% in central.). The north is 55-60% R1b so more than half of the men are Celtic. There is 10% of both J2 and E3b in the north making both lineages rare on their own, but making the total of Neolithic blood at about 20% of north italian men (combined). Whereas the Neolithic of "foreign" element that arrived much later than the R1b men is at about 50% of south italian males, making southern Italy a genetic "isolate" compared to other nearby west European etc. areas and even compared to north Italy which clusters much closer with Swiss, French, German men etc.
    The analysis of Adamo is correct (see the Y-DNA frequencies by region).

    In southern Italy, the sum of J2 and E1b1b amounts to about 50% and more in some areas.

    Haplogroup J2 is thought to have appeared somewhere in the Middle East towards the end of the last glaciation, between 15,000 and 22,000 years ago. Its present geographic distribution argue in favour of a Neolithic expansion from the Fertile Crescent (Eupedia).

    Haplogroup E1b1b (formerly known as E3b) represents the last major direct migration from Africa into Europe. It is believed to have first appeared in the Horn of Africa approximately 26,000 years ago and dispersed to North Africa and the Near East during the late Paleolithic and Mesolithic periods. E1b1b lineages are closely linked to the diffusion of Afroasiatic languages ( Eupedia).

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    A quite common south italian phenotype is the actor Francesco Benigno, you can find him on google.
    Last edited by feduzzonitti; 10-03-15 at 23:03.

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    Quote Originally Posted by feduzzonitti View Post
    The analysis of Adamo is correct (see the Y-DNA frequencies by region).

    In southern Italy, the sum of J2 and E1b1b amounts to about 50% and more in some areas.
    Adamo is not correct. Its like he invented those figures and go against to any serious study. Can you kindly direct to any study that says that. In the meantime:-

    A 2004 study by Semino et al. contradicted this study, and showed that Italians in North-central regions (like Tuscany and Emilia-Romagna) had a higherconcentration of J2 than their Southern counterparts. North-central had 26.9% J2, whereas Calabria (a far Southern region) had 20.0%, Sardinia had 9.7% and Sicily had 16.7%.[10]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_history_of_Italy

    Haplogroup J2 is thought to have appeared somewhere in the Middle East towards the end of the last glaciation, between 15,000 and 22,000 years ago. Its present geographic distribution argue in favour of a Neolithic expansion from the Fertile Crescent (Eupedia).

    Haplogroup E1b1b (formerly known as E3b) represents the last major direct migration from Africa into Europe. It is believed to have first appeared in the Horn of Africa approximately 26,000 years ago and dispersed to North Africa and the Near East during the late Paleolithic and Mesolithic periods. E1b1b lineages are closely linked to the diffusion of Afroasiatic languages ( Eupedia).
    Most E1b1b is E-V13 http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2008/07...explained.html, and what is the problem exactly? According to current theories and understanding all Haplogroups came out of Africa. Is that bad?

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    Quote Originally Posted by feduzzonitti View Post
    A tipical south italian phenotype is the actor Francesco Benigno, you can find him on google.
    you can copy and paste URL, make it a little easy for us everybody does it.

    https://www.google.com.mt/webhp?sour...esco%20benigno

    You see how easy? Whats wrong with Francesco Benigno?

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    This guy is surely a famous anti Italian sock of the web. He has created many sock accounts in some other anthrofora and he has made a lot of anti Italian videos. I recognize his t-rolling style and his style of write. In addition to i know his face and he pretends to be Italian from Tuscany but he doesn't look Italian at all. Change forum t-roll.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hauteville View Post
    This guy is surely a famous anti Italian sock of the web. He has created many sock accounts in some other anthrofora and he has made a lot of anti Italian videos. I recognize his t-rolling style and his style of write. In addition to i know his face and he pretends to be Italian from Tuscany but he doesn't look Italian at all. Change forum t-roll.
    Who are you talking about?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Who are you talking about?
    That feduzzonitti

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    LeBrok, I must protest! I coined the phrase Near East Aversion Disorder (NEAD). Is this copyright infringement??? I do like the fact that it now spells "near" however, as in NEAR east!

    What could the R stand for...[R]evulsion? Near East Aversion Revulsion? Rather [r]epetitive isn't it?
    Lol sorry, I must have remember the Near East part.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hauteville View Post
    That feduzzonitti
    His IP address shows Friuli-Venezia Giulia, and perhaps for that reason he is not very nice to South Italians?

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    His IP address shows Friuli-Venezia Giulia, and perhaps for that reason he is not very nice to South Italians?
    how interesting, and why a person from Friuli-Venezia Gulia should have a reason not to be nice to South Italians? Because of Medieval feuds? .

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Feduzzo is a North African tr.oll who lives in Italy. He is using a proxy, so his IP is fake. He is actually from Tuscany.

    If any of you is interested, I will send you the link to his facebook profile...

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