I2a-Din came to the Balkans and Dinaric Alps with the Thracians, Dacians & Illyrians

Kingslav said:
We can rule out Celtic Origin for I2A-DIN with 2.2% R1B in Ukraine and similar R1B rates all across the board in this region Eastern Europe.
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I only suggested it because this line appears to expand around the same time as the Scordisci Celts, but as you see I believe in a possible Scythian connection, since you belong to I-CTS10228 what is your opinion on your ancestor's origin?
 
@Sile,

When it comes to Albanians you are completely wrong, how can they be from the Carpi when it has nothing to do with where they live, if they were truly landlocked peoples would it make more sense if they lived in the Albanian mountains? The modern Albanian language is probably a mixture of a couple of Illyrian dialect. Romans did mention Albanians, as their progenitors the Illyrians. You seem to be against Albanians for no reason.
 
Azzurro said:
We don't know for sure he was from Southern Poland, but I agree we have to leave that possibility.

I disagree with you for the potential origin of I-CTS10228, I think there is a very good chance of it being Scythian and/or Sarmatian/Getae, two downstreams of I-CTS10228 which branched off earlier A2512 and SK1412 can only be from these two sources, as for the first line ended up in Greece and the other stretches all the way to the Volga two areas which the Bastarnae or any Germanic tribe ever reached and especially with those current TMRCA's. Then we get into two other branches of I-CTS10228 which are I-PH908 and I-S17250 which expanded with the Slavic migrations it very apparent with their modern distribution. To me it seems this line originally came from somewhere near where the Proto-Slavs were located, thus it spread from East to West, and the Scythian connection would make the most sense.
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It would rather be Sarmatians who arrived at this time. The Scythians were already inhabiting coastal Black Sea Regions when the Sarmatians arrived and conquered the Scythians.


"Originating in Eastern Europe, between the Don River and the Ural Mountains, the Sarmatians started their westward migration around the 6th century BC, coming to dominate the closely related Scythians by the 2nd century BC. The Sarmatians differed from the Scythians in their veneration of the god of fire rather than god of nature, and women's prominent role in warfare, which possibly served as the inspiration for the Amazons. At their greatest reported extent, around 1st century AD, these tribes ranged from the Vistula River to the mouth of the Danube and eastward to the Volga, bordering the shores of the Black and Caspian seas as well as the Caucasus to the south. Their territory, which was known as Sarmatia to Greco-Roman ethnographers, corresponded to the western part of greater Scythia (mostly modern Ukraine and Southern Russia, also to a smaller extent north-eastern Balkans around Moldova.)" - Sarmatians Wikipedia
 
Azzurro said:
I only suggested it because this line appears to expand around the same time as the Scordisci Celts, but as you see I believe in a possible Scythian connection, since you belong to I-CTS10228 what is your opinion on your ancestor's origin?
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Celts have a Western European R1B Belgic origin, from Belgium. This is rather comical to consider, if you look at Ukraine population average for Haplogroups. R1B seems to not exist at 2.2% R1B population average.
 
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Azzurro said:
I guess you completely misunderstood what I am saying, even in the Yfull picture you posted you see there is also one from France which I mentioned and you completely ignore. Also when the * is marked like we see in that Southern Pole and that French individual it means they share all the mutations of I-CTS10228 until 2300 ybp meaning that's when it branched off. I don't understand how I am trying to rewrite history when I am suggesting either a Scythian or Celtic origin for this subclade, maybe it is you who tries to rewrite history like saying the Albanians are descendants of Bastarnae and are not Illyrians, its very clear that I-CTS10228 suffered a bottleneck from 5300 ybp to 2300 ybp thats 3000 years.
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If even I-CTS10228 suffered a bottleneck as you claim and many others claiming about this specific Haplogroup, the result of this "bottleneck" is explained here.

"A population bottleneck or genetic bottleneck is a sharp reduction in the size of a population due to environmental events (such as earthquakes, floods, fires, disease, or droughts) or human activities (such as genocide). Such events can reduce the variation in the gene pool of a population; thereafter, a smaller population, with a correspondingly smaller genetic diversity, remains to pass on genes to future generations of offspring through sexual reproduction.

Alternatively, if by chance survivors of the bottleneck are the individuals with the greatest genetic fitness, the frequency of the fitter genes within the gene pool is increased, while the pool itself is reduced."

- Population Bottleneck Wikipedia
 
Azzurro said:
@Sile,

When it comes to Albanians you are completely wrong, how can they be from the Carpi when it has nothing to do with where they live, if they were truly landlocked peoples would it make more sense if they lived in the Albanian mountains? The modern Albanian language is probably a mixture of a couple of Illyrian dialect. Romans did mention Albanians, as their progenitors the Illyrians. You seem to be against Albanians for no reason.
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why do you bring up this illyrian and albanian?.............look at Roman historians...........where is Illyricum, Dalmatia, Pannonia

what was Albania called ............it was Epirus Nova

What was Montenegro called ..............look at map



do you think the Roman historians and government are wrong in who was who and where they lived

You do realise the Roman made boundaries based on language and similar ethnicity so as to target the whole area if the area rebelled against Rome

Clearly Epirus nova is modern Albania and they must have had a similar Greek type of language
 
Sile said:
why do you bring up this illyrian and albanian?.............look at Roman historians...........where is Illyricum, Dalmatia, Pannonia

what was Albania called ............it was Epirus Nova

What was Montenegro called ..............look at map



do you think the Roman historians and government are wrong in who was who and where they lived

You do realise the Roman made boundaries based on language and similar ethnicity so as to target the whole area if the area rebelled against Rome

Clearly Epirus nova is modern Albania and they must have had a similar Greek type of language
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Clearly you must be either one of the slowest or most anti-Albanian persons I know.

Italy as a name was confined only to Calabria initially, before it was applied to the entire peninsula. Clearly it seems you're not Italian. Same goes to Graeci being applied to all Hellenes, or even probably the Illyrians, initially a single tribe whose name was used to identify all the culturally/linguistically similar tribes. Don't forget the Greeks called themselves Romioi before 1821, therefore we can "claim" that the Greeks came from Anatolia and replaced the Romioi within a few months :p

Most importantly, why am I wasting my time with you? XD

@Leka - Read my post before including my name then. I agree with what you're saying but I mentioned that it is a possibility that the Goths 'contributed' to the dispersal, not brought CTS10228 to Eastern Europe.
 
Kingslav said:
If even I-CTS10228 suffered a bottleneck as you claim and many others claiming about this specific Haplogroup, the result of this "bottleneck" is explained here.

"A population bottleneck or genetic bottleneck is a sharp reduction in the size of a population due to environmental events (such as earthquakes, floods, fires, disease, or droughts) or human activities (such as genocide). Such events can reduce the variation in the gene pool of a population; thereafter, a smaller population, with a correspondingly smaller genetic diversity, remains to pass on genes to future generations of offspring through sexual reproduction.

Alternatively, if by chance survivors of the bottleneck are the individuals with the greatest genetic fitness, the frequency of the fitter genes within the gene pool is increased, while the pool itself is reduced."

- Population Bottleneck Wikipedia
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This genetic evolution caused by bottleneck is also likely reason for I2A-DIN people recorded as tallest Haplogroup originating from Balkans measuring on average 187 cm, being only closely rivaled in the world by Haplogroup I1 people of Northern Europe/Scandinavia and East/Central African Nilotic peoples from a diversity of Haplogroups. The I Haplogroup people survived Ice Age in Balkans would make them have to evolve differently and grow taller in order to preserve more energy to keep body warmer in cold conditions. All mammals have a tendancy to grow bigger in cold climate.

Interesting if you look at population IQ (intelligence quotient) averages by sample of European cities, the highest scores you will find majority of place where I1 or I2A-DIN are found.

Country City Mean IQ

Holland Amsterdam 109.4
Germany Hamburg 109.3
Poland Warsaw 108.3
Sweden Stockholm 105.8
Yugoslavia Zagreb 105.7
Italy Rome 103.8
Austria Vienna 103.5
Switzerland Zurich 102.8
Portugal Lisbon 102.6
Great Britain London 102.0
Norway Oslo 101.8
Denmark Copenhagen 100.7
Hungary Budapest 100.5
Czechoslovakia Bratislava 100.4

Possible bottleneck adaptations of I1 and I2A-DIN?

Keep in mind, famous engineer Nikola Tesla did belong to Haplogroup I2A-DIN.
 
Kingslav said:
This genetic evolution caused by bottleneck is also likely reason for I2A-DIN people recorded as tallest Haplogroup originating from Balkans measuring on average 187 cm, being only closely rivaled in the world by Haplogroup I1 people of Northern Europe/Scandinavia and East/Central African Nilotic peoples from a diversity of Haplogroups. The I Haplogroup people survived Ice Age in Balkans would make them have to evolve differently and grow taller in order to preserve more energy to keep body warmer in cold conditions. All mammals have a tendancy to grow bigger in cold climate.

Interesting if you look at population IQ (intelligence quotient) averages by sample of European cities, the highest scores you will find majority of place where I1 or I2A-DIN are found.

Country City Mean IQ

Holland Amsterdam 109.4
Germany Hamburg 109.3
Poland Warsaw 108.3
Sweden Stockholm 105.8
Yugoslavia Zagreb 105.7
Italy Rome 103.8
Austria Vienna 103.5
Switzerland Zurich 102.8
Portugal Lisbon 102.6
Great Britain London 102.0
Norway Oslo 101.8
Denmark Copenhagen 100.7
Hungary Budapest 100.5
Czechoslovakia Bratislava 100.4

Possible bottleneck adaptations of I1 and I2A-DIN?

Keep in mind, famous engineer Nikola Tesla did belong to Haplogroup I2A-DIN.
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Yeah, and Tesla's are still Vlachs.

Haplogroup I is definitely connected to larger penises too. Bring us some evidence now.
 
Nik said:
Yeah, and Tesla's are still Vlachs.

Haplogroup I is definitely connected to larger penises too. Bring us some evidence now.
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These are particular adaptions of I2A-DIN no reason get angry, you know knowledge is Power.
 
Kingslav said:
These are particular adaptions of I2A-DIN no reason get angry, you know knowledge is Power.
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Very true. Thank you for the knowledge. I already feel more powerful.

What about E-V13 living in the same area? They're not as tall as I2a-Din? And what's up with Romanians and Moldovans not showing those super genes?
 
Nik said:
Very true. Thank you for the knowledge. I already feel more powerful.

What about E-V13 living in the same area? They're not as tall as I2a-Din? And what's up with Romanians and Moldovans not showing those super genes?
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What super genes Romanians not showing? I2A-DIN? They are Romanized Slavs, Moldovian mix with Slavs, Turks and have entirely different ethnogenesis. With some your posting on here you lacking knowledge of basic history or genetic background of Eastern Europe, you should read this info than discuss.

What you want know about E-V13?
 
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Kingslav said:
What super genes Romanians not showing? I2A-DIN? They are Romanized Slavs, Moldovian mix with Slavs, Turks and have entirely different ethnogenesis. With some your posting on here you lacking knowledge of basic history or genetic background of Eastern Europe, you should read this info than discuss.

What you want know about EV-13?
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So the Slavs came in the 6th and 7th century and got Romanized and not the other way around, Slavicizing the natives? Wow.

And the I2a-Din Slavs living outside of the Roman Empire and in the North-Eastern extremities of the Balkans got Romanized while those in Dalmatia didnt? Bow wow wow (yippy yo yippy yay)

U can enlighten me about E-V13 (u cant even spell that correctly) on its thread and I'll attend ur valuable lectures.
 
Nik said:
So the Slavs came in the 6th and 7th century and got Romanized and not the other way around, Slavicizing the natives? Wow.

And the I2a-Din Slavs living outside of the Roman Empire and in the North-Eastern extremities of the Balkans got Romanized while those in Dalmatia didnt? Bow wow wow (yippy yo yippy yay)

U can enlighten me about E-V13 (u cant even spell that correctly) on its thread and I'll attend ur valuable lectures.
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You are having just few spelling errors also, not to mention flip-flopping back and forth not able to decide what side of discussion you belong. What did you even say second sentence it make no sense.
 
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Clearly you must be either one of the slowest or most anti-Albanian persons I know.
Most importantly, why am I wasting my time with you? XD
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It was time.
 
After reading this thread (all 42 pages of them), I agree with the original post that started the thread: I2a-Din (L621>L147.2) matches the area that old Thracian group of people lived. When the Slavic Expansion happened, the Slavic people mixed with the Thracian people ( carriers of I2a-Din) that were at that time populating those regions. Slavic language doesn't change the DNA of the people that lived continuously for thousand of years...
 
Dumidre said:
After reading this thread (all 42 pages of them), I agree with the original post that started the thread: I2a-Din (L621>L147.2) matches the area that old Thracian group of people lived. When the Slavic Expansion happened, the Slavic people mixed with the Thracian people ( carriers of I2a-Din) that were at that time populating those regions. Slavic language doesn't change the DNA of the people that lived continuously for thousand of years...
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Yes you are correct, welcome to thread.
 
It is Slavic, nothing else. Chop chop, move on.
 
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