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View Poll Results: The Future of Crimea

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51. You may not vote on this poll
  • Crimea is special and should become an independent country

    6 11.76%
  • Crimea belongs to Ukraine

    13 25.49%
  • Crimea should become Russian, because most population is Russian

    16 31.37%
  • Crimea should become first Tatar country, the longest residing ethnicity.

    10 19.61%
  • Crimea should be returned to Greece, the first official owner.

    6 11.76%
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Thread: Should Crimea be an independent country? (Russian-Ukrainian conflict)

  1. #26
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    Country: Yugoslavia





    BTW there are already jokes going around.... People are aware what EU is doing.
    Last edited by LeBrok; 03-03-14 at 03:45.

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    After failure of Yanukowych's policy Ukraine needs new parliamentary and president elections, certainly not war.
    Why Putin is trying to wage war against Ukraine? Why he needs to separate Crimea from Ukraine?
    Russian political power is based on the income from fuel exports. Ukraine is confirmed to have large deposits of methane clathrate in the bottom of the Black Sea. So in next 10-15 years Ukraine will become exporter of gas what makes it potential economic rival.
    So Russian officials emphasize that in government of Ukraine there are nationalists, even if Yatseniuk declared that they are respecting every minority in the country so they are working on a new law on languages.
    I am also concerned about nationalist sentiments of party Svoboda, but gladly they do not have prime minister.

    @ Ike:
    1. Rus is not Russia. Grand Duchy of Moscow became the Tsardom of Russia in 1547 along with coronation of Ivan IV the Terrible. Rus was established in 9th century as the federation of East Slavs.
    2. Ukrainians ware named Little Russians, Ruthenians and Ukrainians in different times. Map shown by you named them Petis Russes. Right before Soviets there was Ukrainian People’s Republic. Here is map showing Ukrainian-speaking area in early years of 20th century.
    3. Today after 71 yeas of ocupation by the Soviets many Ukrainians speak Russian language, but they are still Ukrainians. Ethnic Russians make only 17.3% of population of Ukraine it iis lower ratio then in Latvia(26.9%) and Estonia(25.6%).
    Russian language in Ukraine:
    Russianlang2001ua.PNG
    Ukrainian language in Ukraine:
    Ukrainianlang2001ua.PNG

    Edit:
    Here is more detailed map.

    Protests against war in Moscow.

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    Country: Yugoslavia



    Like I don't know how New Age Imperialists invent new nations when serves their goal. EU has shown multiple times that it is not interested in implementation of democracy, disregarded legitimate choice of people, and broken international law and agreements. We have an experience here on Balkans with territories like Krajina's ;)

    Stop spreading that nationalistic bshit here. The difference between Ukraine and Russia considering language, history and ethnicity is minor, and only external factors are emphasizing it order to provoke chaos in the region, and to get a cause for military intervention which will only bring death and chaos (already there) and foreign troops (NATO) to Ukraine. They've done the same in my country some 20 years ago. I hope that Ukrainians are more smart than us and that they've learnt something from orchestrated fallout of Yugoslavia.


    Why would a war start? Over the Yanaukovich decision to slow down integration with EU? If EU is so concerned about the well being of Ukrainians, it could say that Ukraine can't join EU ever, and the story is over.
    So, does EU wants a war, or does it want to stop it?

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    The author should put an option about Martians in the poll, probably Martian UFO dish landed in Crimea before first Greek settlers arrived so Martians also have right on the territory

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    I thought that you know about Putin's steps aimed to wage war against Ukraine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by matbir View Post
    After failure of Yanukowych's policy Ukraine needs new parliamentary and president elections, certainly not war.
    The problem is that Yanukovich was elected and new elections probably would not change much. Maybe those Ukrainians who voted differently should be glad if they could get rid of the russophile Crimea and Donbass ;)
    I'm speculating now but I wouldn't be surprised if Russia for that reason would not fully take away Crimea from Ukraine, just strenghtening it's autonomy status.

    Why Putin is trying to wage war against Ukraine? Why he needs to separate Crimea from Ukraine?
    There is this special contract which obliges Ukraine to warrant to Russia the military base. Maybe this contract could be a second reason to not fully take away Crimea from Ukraine, we'll see.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by matbir View Post
    After failure of Yanukowych's policy Ukraine needs new parliamentary and president elections, certainly not war.
    Why Putin is trying to wage war against Ukraine? Why he needs to separate Crimea from Ukraine?
    Russian political power is based on the income from fuel exports. Ukraine is confirmed to have large deposits of methane clathrate in the bottom of the Black Sea. So in next 10-15 years Ukraine will become exporter of gas what makes it potential economic rival.
    So Russian officials emphasize that in government of Ukraine there are nationalists, even if Yatseniuk declared that they are respecting every minority in the country so they are working on a new law on languages.
    I am also concerned about nationalist sentiments of party Svoboda, but gladly they do not have prime minister.

    @ Ike:
    1. Rus is not Russia. Grand Duchy of Moscow became the Tsardom of Russia in 1547 along with coronation of Ivan IV the Terrible. Rus was established in 9th century as the federation of East Slavs.
    2. Ukrainians ware named Little Russians, Ruthenians and Ukrainians in different times. Map shown by you named them Petis Russes. Right before Soviets there was Ukrainian People’s Republic. Here is map showing Ukrainian-speaking area in early years of 20th century.
    3. Today after 71 yeas of ocupation by the Soviets many Ukrainians speak Russian language, but they are still Ukrainians. Ethnic Russians make only 17.3% of population of Ukraine it iis lower ratio then in Latvia(26.9%) and Estonia(25.6%).
    Russian language in Ukraine:
    Russianlang2001ua.PNG
    Ukrainian language in Ukraine:
    Ukrainianlang2001ua.PNG

    Edit:
    Here is more detailed map.

    Protests against war in Moscow.
    Hitler was already so before Putin: He demanded a large province because a few thousand people spoke German, of the Czech and the rest is history.
    Putin has already invaded the Ukrainian province of Crimea and now he talks about a third of the rest of the Ukraine ... etc .... in Paris as a few thousand people speak Russian.
    I fear that Putin redo as the annexation of Georgia, but this time I feel that this will end badly if the Russian people do not take control of Russia.
    You can not trust the word of a Putin as they did for Hitler. We will have to get involved, because then it will be Poland.
    I am very worried.

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    Matbir

    How much Russian speaking people you have in Poland? Are their rights violated????????????????

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    Quote Originally Posted by ElHorsto View Post
    The problem is that Yanukovich was elected and new elections probably would not change much.
    Yanukovich has no chance in elections, after what happened in Kiev. No one mentally healthy would vote for man who allowed police to shot to the civilians.

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    Quote Originally Posted by matbir View Post
    Yanukovich has no chance in elections, after what happened in Kiev. No one mentally healthy would vote for man who allowed police to shot to the civilians.
    Yanukovich allowed or ordered police to shoot at Ukrainian speaking people. I suspect that Russian speaking people in the Ukraine aren't quite as upset about that as you might think. It's a country divided, and perhaps the Ukrainians would be better off to let Russia take back all of the territory that Khrushchev gave to the Ukraine in 1954, so that the rest of the Ukraine can become fully integrated into the west. Only then can the Ukrainians count on the EU to protect them from the Russian bear. Russians already have Crimea - will Russian speaking people in Crimea who've welcomed the Russians be allowed to vote in a Ukrainian election? Probably not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aberdeen View Post
    Russians already have Crimea - will Russian speaking people in Crimea who've welcomed the Russians be allowed to vote in a Ukrainian election? Probably not.
    For this case russian army is already there to ensure democracy (scnr).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anton, Bear's den View Post
    Matbir

    How much Russian speaking people you have in Poland? Are their rights violated????????????????
    It is interesting how Russian and "Yugoslavian" posters can't even consider other solutions than Crimea being Russian property. It means that it is not only Putin but majority of Russians are imperialists in heart.

    Anything objective this time, or ridiculing and demining others (this time Ukrainians) is your national sport you're proud of?
    Sadly, with this attitude, Russia is still far away from being a true member of international community, a partner, a friend, a big strong helping brother, and yet it prides itself being a bully and a thug.
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    It is interesting how Russian and "Yugoslavian" posters can't even consider other solutions than Crimea being Russian property. It means that it is not only Putin but majority of Russians are imperialists in heart.
    Well I don't see any imperialism, the only thing what Russian Federation did is warned illegitimate Ukranian neo-nazi radical gangs at power that RF will not tolerate violence towards Russian community in Ukraine. The Crimea peoples will decide themselves it's furture on referendum scheduled for March 30.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Sadly, with this attitude, Russia is still far away from being a true member of international community, a partner, a friend, a big strong helping brother, and yet it prides itself being a bully and a thug.
    I am afraid Anglo-Saxon family of countries as well as you Lebrok don't distinguish words "friend" & "vassal". The "Good" for you only the one who fulfills all your orders unquestioningly like a lapdog and bad any other who has their own opinion. You de-facto have only vassals & enemies on the borderline.

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    It is interesting how Russian and "Yugoslavian" posters can't even consider other solutions than Crimea being Russian property. It means that it is not only Putin but majority of Russians are imperialists in heart.

    Anything objective this time, or ridiculing and demining others (this time Ukrainians) is your national sport you're proud of?
    Sadly, with this attitude, Russia is still far away from being a true member of international community, a partner, a friend, a big strong helping brother, and yet it prides itself being a bully and a thug.
    you can not imagine the number of Russian soldiers who want to desert.
    Russia is really a mafia state, and I think what I saw with my eyes.
    Let this quote Russian;
    because we must recognize them unlike the Germans who voted for Hitler, the Russian did not vote for Putin.
    We must remain calm but determined and I think a total economic war with Russia is a possible way to bring down the tyrant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anton, Bear's den View Post
    Well I don't see any imperialism, the only thing what Russian Federation did is warned illegitimate Ukranian neo-nazi radical gangs at power that RF will not tolerate violence towards Russian community in Ukraine. The Crimea peoples will decide themselves it's furture on referendum scheduled for March 30.



    I am afraid Anglo-Saxon family of countries as well as you Lebrok don't distinguish words "friend" & "vassal". The "Good" for you only the one who fulfills all your orders unquestioningly like a lapdog and bad any other who has their own opinion. You de-facto have only vassals & enemies on the borderline.
    This is how I believe most Russians think about the situation, especially Russian leaders. That's why I advise Ukrainians to be cautious about how they handle the situation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by matbir View Post
    Fascist?
    That is just ridicules, stop your soviet propaganda, and look what will be next. The only real scenario is that Putin will establish Republic of Crimea totaly dependent of Russia, because no one will recognize it as legal government.
    That scenario happened in 2008 in Georgia, nothing is new here, just long known Russian imperial agenda.



    Quote Originally Posted by matbir View Post
    I am also concerned about nationalist sentiments of party Svoboda, but gladly they do not have prime minister.
    You are absolutely not aware of the current situation in Ukraine.

    Svoboda party and the government does not have power in the country, it's puppets.
    Power in the country is located at
    Right Sector (Pravyi Sektor) is a Ukrainian militant group consisting mostly of young men with right-wing, ultra right-wing, borderline fascist or neofascist views.
    Speaking about his attitude towards non-Ukrainians, Yarosh referred to controversial WWII figure Stepan Bandera as a model. For those fighting with Right Sector "for Ukraine," Yarosh stated that they should be treated "as comrades." For those opposing "the Ukrainian people's national liberation struggle," Yarosh stated that they should be treated "in a hostile way.
    Andriy Tarasenko in an interview stated, among other things, that territories of Poland like Przemysl should become part of Ukraine and that it should regain nuclear weapons

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by matbir View Post
    Fascist?
    That is just ridicules, stop your soviet propaganda, and look what will be next. The only real scenario is that Putin will establish Republic of Crimea totaly dependent of Russia, because no one will recognize it as legal government.
    That scenario happened in 2008 in Georgia, nothing is new here, just long known Russian imperial agenda.
    I wouldn't bring in Georgia into this game. In my opinion Ossetians have a right for their own homeland. I am not saying this in any offense to Georgians since I like them but just even without the Ossetian territories there wouldn't be much difference because it is just a small part of Georgia and Georgia just like most countries in West Asia are not made upon ethnic but geopolitical/imperial borders.

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    Quote Originally Posted by matbir View Post
    Yanukovich has no chance in elections, after what happened in Kiev. No one mentally healthy would vote for man who allowed police to shot to the civilians.
    Yanukovich won the latest electons legitimately. So, how would you feel if a "group of civilians" stumbled down to Warshaw and started shooting at the police, and forced your president that you elected out of the city?

    With an experience I have in situations like these, I say that only mistake Yanaukovich made was not to shoot down all the terrorist. All of them together with their leaders should have been put to death. It's what any other democratic leader would do. He was elected by his people to a certain function, and it's his responsibility to defend the country and legal institutions from intruders.

    Possible war is the price country may pay, for Yanaukovich not doing what he was supposed to do.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ike View Post
    With an experience I have in situations like these, I say that only mistake Yanaukovich made was not to shoot down all the terrorist. All of them together with their leaders should have been put to death. It's what any other democratic leader would do. He was elected by his people to a certain function, and it's his responsibility to defend the country and legal institutions from intruders.
    It is pretty much explanatory why you and people like you created so much mess, civil war, and war crimes in Yugoslavia, "shoot down all the terrorist". Did it help you to keep Yugoslavia together?
    Yep, brand them terrorists, natzis and western vasals and kill them all. Your "political solutions" how to deal with unhappy and disillusioned citizens are astounding, worth of NKWD or KGB methods.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anton, Bear's den View Post
    Well I don't see any imperialism, the only thing what Russian Federation did is warned illegitimate Ukranian neo-nazi radical gangs at power that RF will not tolerate violence towards Russian community in Ukraine. The Crimea peoples will decide themselves it's furture on referendum scheduled for March 30.
    ...and Russian troops will make sure the referendum is honest...After all Russian Government is known by its transparency, honesty and caring for people.



    I am afraid Anglo-Saxon family of countries as well as you Lebrok don't distinguish words "friend" & "vassal". The "Good" for you only the one who fulfills all your orders unquestioningly like a lapdog and bad any other who has their own opinion. You de-facto have only vassals & enemies on the borderline.
    We are so at ease knowing that Putin and his "free" press are making sure you get the definitions right.

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    It is pretty much explanatory why you and people like you created so much mess, civil war, and war crimes in Yugoslavia, "shoot down all the terrorist". Did it help you to keep Yugoslavia together?
    Sadly it did not happen. The federal government was disorganized, perpetrators were not persecuted, and when terrorist started attacking civilians, institutions and the army nobody had the guts to do what had to be done. Military had strict orders not to shoot anyone, and soldiers were not given ammunition. Reaction was not proper, and consequences were horrible.

    Yep, brand them terrorists, natzis and western vasals and kill them all. Your "political solutions" how to deal with unhappy and disillusioned citizens are astounding, worth of NKWD or KGB methods.
    If you like 'em so much, you can have them all. Please take em to your country, they are nice, civil an peaceful ;)
    Pure democracy on it's finest. The good boy in the first photo has even got a EU peace symbol on his forearm
    Last edited by LeBrok; 03-03-14 at 03:44. Reason: This is not Russian or your propaganda board. Refrain from posting such material. You've crossed the line.

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    when you press the trigger the ball goes and you can not catch it, that's the difference with words. And you can not rewind the film back.

    100 Ukrainian civilians already killed by Russian soldiers in Kiev, it is not enough, you still thirsty?

    The best stop everything but this is not possible because Putin has already invaded Tcetchennia, part of the Georgia threatens the Baltic countries and now it is the ukraine, Poland tomorrow or the Latvia?
    A ball that I will not stop I know that.
    I think that for me everything is said on this subject. Vco! do ctrieztchi.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by martiko View Post
    when you press the trigger the ball goes and you can not catch it, that's the difference with words. And you can not rewind the film back.

    100 Ukrainian civilians already killed by Russian soldiers in Kiev, it is not enough, you still thirsty?

    The best stop everything but this is not possible because Putin has already invaded Tcetchennia, part of the Georgia threatens the Baltic countries and now it is the ukraine, Poland tomorrow or the Latvia?
    A ball that I will not stop I know that.
    I think that for me everything is said on this subject. Vco! do ctrieztchi.
    What has got Putin to do with terrorist that are coming from EU to Ukraine to start a war?
    Last edited by LeBrok; 03-03-14 at 03:48. Reason: Propaganda material

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    This is just madness. The people there on both sides are surely going through hell. But who is profiting from this? EU certainly not, they're not actively trying to add another poor satellite, after what happened with Greece.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ike View Post
    What has got Putin to do with terrorist that are coming from EU to Ukraine to start a war?
    I found your source of misinformation following photos.
    Not found there, one photo showing Russian soldiers making use of their military weapons on the civilian population of the demonstrators in Kiev, but this is what we find there.


    http://www.thesleuthjournal.com/west...lence-ukraine/
    http://www.thesleuthjournal.com/sleuth-journal/
    http://www.thesleuthjournal.com/bill...l-agriculture/

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