101 Ancient Eurasian Genomes Available Online

As far as I have understand, they say a Maikop population was living on the Steppes, those domesticated Horses, invented the wheel, had Kurgan burials etc. and than Cucuteni/Tripojie culture had a "population explosion" and started to migraate to the Steppes mixing and adopting into the local Maikop groups. Going by that

It seems they have this theories.

1. PIE descend from Maikop culture.

2. PIE descend from the invading CT culture

3. PIE is a hybrid of the Maikop and Neolithic CT culture.

the first invasion from the steppe into the Balkans, supposedly IE (Anatolian language?) was 4300-3800 BC, that was before Maykop (3700-3000 BC)
 
Not as far as Altais. And stiill no sign of J2 during Neolithic. All J appear in connection with Bronze to Iron Age (Indo European) expansion,


By the way Iron Age Russian in this case is actually Siberia. The two samples are from just North of Kazakhstan and the Altais. basically the territory known to us as early Scythia.

did you find J2 among the bronze age individuals?
 
Oh, and why did they pick Remedello for the first appearance of the Indo-Europeans in Italy? Ever since it turned out that Oetzi, who was from a related culture, was G2a, it seemed pretty clear, I thought, that Remedello wouldn't be it. The only reason it used to be mentioned as such, I think, is because there was an attempt to link all metallurgy with the Indo-Europeans. Well, maybe they didn't have samples from a later period. Maybe it will turn out that the older scholars were right, and the Italic languages came to Italy from the Balkans, and via the Adriatic.

because of their burial customs

IMO Italic languages arrived much later, some 1300 BC from Hungary into N-Italy, later spreading south as being replaced by Celts in the north
 
All I've had time to do is read the text in the Supplementary Info and look at a few of the admixture chars and the yDna, so maybe that's why I'm confused, but


It doesn't seem to hang together, but maybe it's because I just skimmed it. When I get up tomorrow, all our European members will have figured it all out, yes? :)

I only got some bits and pieces, not the full text

I think it's better to try and absorb some info and draw some conclusions a few days later

btw, there is more to come in the next few years :

https://twitter.com/NatureNews/status/608730560303915009/photo/1
 
Speaking of Corded Ware R1a contacts.
It seems that this site, although looking semi-scientific and very pro-Baltic made a lot of sense WITHOUT KNOWING NEW DNA DATA! It is about Finno-Ugric, Baltic and Indo-Iranian ancient linguistic and cultural contacts in relation to proto-Balts.
http://www.suduva.com/virdainas/proto.htm
 
The mysterious "teal" component is present almost in all BA cultures. Sintashta and Afanasievo also.
So who are this "teal" people?
 
BA Baltic and Montenegro had virtualy no ENF!. I can understand for Baltics but isn't Montenegro in Balkans?
 
Does anyone know the Y-DNA haplogroups of the following males from this study:

RISE598, Turlojiske (Lithuania), LBA
RISE1, Oblaczkowo (Poland), Corded Ware
RISE139, Chociwel (Poland), Corded Ware
RISE431, Leki Male (Poland), CW / proto-Unetice
RISE596, Velika Gruda (Montenegro), LBA
RISE145, Polwica (Poland), Unetice
RISE150, Przeclawice (Poland), Unetice

As well as Y-DNA of these new German samples and Czech samples of all cultures?
 
Does anyone know the Y-DNA haplogroups of the following males from this study:

RISE598, Turlojiske (Lithuania), LBA
RISE1, Oblaczkowo (Poland), Corded Ware
RISE139, Chociwel (Poland), Corded Ware
RISE431, Leki Male (Poland), CW / proto-Unetice
RISE596, Velika Gruda (Montenegro), LBA
RISE145, Polwica (Poland), Unetice
RISE150, Przeclawice (Poland), Unetice

As well as of new German CW and BA samples and Czech samples of all cultures?

Y DNA frequencies.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1HuNPykGuq2PbHkUOL5dCiwrveIy-OGO2qOklwfsayW8&authuser=0

No results given for Unetice. You can do the math by looking at the # of CWC males and how many R1as, R1bs, and R1s they have. An R1 was found in CWC, Sweden, Germany, Poland.
 
Thank you. I have seen frequencies before, but there is no data on each sample.

And for example Corded Ware samples are also from Bavaria (Bergrheinfeld, Tiefbrunn).

I wonder where is this basal R1 Corded Ware sample from, which site and country.

Anyway most of samples from Poland must be R1a, because most of CW samples are R1a.

This one sample of Corded Ware R1b is probably from Bavaria, not from more eastern sites.

No results given for Unetice.

Too bad.

But looking at Unetice samples previously published in other studies, these ones will probably be mostly R1a and I2. Especially that these new samples of Unetice are from more eastern sites (Poland) than previous (Germany):

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...thic-Early-Iron-Age-Y-DNA-landscape-of-Europe

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...arly-Iron-Age-Y-DNA-landscape-of-Europe/page8
 
All in all - a striking continuity between Bronze Age Poland and modern Poland. R1a, R1a, R1a everywhere... But we need samples from the Iron Age to see if Germanic tribes invaded and expelled Bronze Age Poles, or never visited that area.

Another possibility is that Bronze Age "Poles" were first Germanized (in the Iron Age), and later Slavicized (in the Dark Ages).

And there was R1a continuity all the time, language changed, but actual migrations of people were not massive.

Anyway - it doesn't look like East Germanic tribes were R1a and later emigrated with that R1a, because there is almost no R1a in North Africa, Iberia, Italy, France, etc. - places to which East Germanic tribes allegedly came from Poland.

So either R1a people were expelled from Poland in the Iron Age, and later returned in the Dark Ages - or there was never actually a massive East Germanic immigration and later emigration from Poland to the Roman Empire.

==========================

This genetic continuity since the Bronze Age, and throughout the Iron Age, until the Middle Ages and modern times (West Slavic populations) is what prof. Janusz Piontek and prof. Hanna Koćka-Krenz of Poznan University have been claiming for years (based on anthropological analysis of skulls, bones and teeth, because DNA was unavailable back then):

Prof. Janusz Piontek made a demographical simulation, taking into account the level of immigration and assimilation. Thereafter he researched osteological material - examining ancient bones. On this basis he estimated what was the dynamics of demographic developments during the period of Roman influences, and during the early Middle Ages. He compared data concerning Wielbark and Przeworsk cultures and that concerning the early Middle Ages. The results of his research were in disagreement with the popular theory of total depopulation and then re-population (...) Piontek's results are consistent with results of research by dr Robert Dąbrowski, who collected rich craniological material from the period of Roman influences and from the early Middle Ages. He used the method of craniological distances of Mahalanobis, as a method taking into account individual skulls (...) It turned out, that skulls of people representing Wielbark, Przeworsk and Chernyakhov cultures were very similar to early Medieval skulls of Slavic populations. (...) According to prof. Piontek and his team, the theory according to which there took place a morphological discontinuity within populations living in what is now Poland in times between the period of Roman influence and the early Middle Ages, is impossible to sustain. Similarities were extraordinarily high.

- We anthropologists do not claim, that we are explaining political, historical, and ethnic-cultural transformations. - said prof. Piontek - We only indicate, that the popular allochthonistic hypothesis, which assumes a total depopulation of the Oder and Vistula basins and then a renewed colonization of those areas by a distinct immigrant population, is not correct.

Because some of Polish anthropologists and even archaeologists question the possibility of researching genetic similarities between human populations based on craniological and odontological features (comparing skulls, bones and teeth), prof. Piontek presented examples from recent global literature which debunk their assertions. He cited several specific examples from literature on the subject, concerning analyses of ethnogenesis based on nonmetrical features - performed by scientists from Japan. Also commonly accepted are studies on teeth, in order to prove or disprove morphological continuity of population in time - for example research by prof. Joel irish concerning the continuity/discontinuity of settlement in Egypt. Piontek proved that standards he used in his studies on ethnogenesis of Slavs are in agreement with standards accepted today in the scientific world. (...)

- Lack of intergroup differences between populations from times of Roman influences and later West Slavic populations, in terms of craniological and odontological features, testifies to the similar genetic structure of both populations - prof. Piontek finished his lecture.

Translated from: http://archeowiesci.pl/2008/11/12/od-kiedy-slowianie-zyja-nad-wisla-i-odra/

The only partial interruptions of genetic and population continuity between the Oder and the Vistula since the Bronze Age until now was first the German "Drang nach Osten" expansion since the Middle Ages onwards, and later the expulsion of German, as well as culturally Germanized (descended from Medieval West Slavs) population after WW2.

And of course we still don't have any Y-DNA samples from the Iron Age - only mtDNA (link below):

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0110839

But skull shapes of the Iron Age population were strikingly similar to skull shapes of the later West Slavs.
 
I don't know was this table posted here?.

nature14507-sf61rwr50.jpg
 

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Ok, so now some speculations that I feel pretty confident.

Corded Ware seems to be related to R1a folk linked to Satem language branches (Baltic, Slavic, Indian, Iranian). Baltic linguists had been speculating about (proto) Balts, Slavs, Indo-Iranians living together in forest zone (and touching Finno-Ugric tribes) since ages, based on certain linguistic, cultural and mythological cross-paralels. Nice to see dna proving or at least not contradicting that.

Of course when R1a proto-Indo-Iranians left for their journey South they admixed with many local folks before arriving to India/Iran. But they took language, culture and R1a impulse with them. Same is true for (modern) Balts who mixed with coastal Baltic natives and early Corded pioneers to create modern Balts.


A lot of things where I dont even a have clue now. First, origins of language and developments before Corded. What is the role of Cucuteni, EHG, Caucasus in creation of PIE? Did it came from East and mixed with NW Caucasian as promoted by Kourtland in his Indo-Uralic?

Many swords shall be broken until we get to where it came from :) I like the idea of Yamna culture being a cocktail of many things (farmers, hunters, Caucasians, EHG, and so on). Message it gives is great and modern - Diversity is Power!

Exchange of cultures, ideas and lifestyles that produced a new global impulse.

p.s.
Another quote that I met on one of many forums that I enjoyed (originally from Anthony?), was that IE expansion seems to be rather peaceful and gradual and not Hunn like horde. This fits to what and how I see developments in Baltic.
 
Another quote that I met on one of many forums that I enjoyed (originally from Anthony?), was that IE expansion seems to be rather peaceful and gradual and not Hunn like horde. This fits to what and how I see developments in Baltic.

Exact! The IE spread was quite different from late Hun like hordes.
We can best see this in Hittite example. Hittite never tried to destroy the culture of their predecessors. They adopted the Hattic/Hurrian religious customs. They adopted even the country name. Their royal archives are the main source of our knowledge about Hattic and Hurrian languages and religion.
 
The "R1" was probably not able to be tested for an R1a or R1b SNP. It doesn't mean it's R1*.
 
According to Patrick Geary (links below), there is no genetic evidence of large-scale Germanic migrations anywhere except for Anglo-Saxon migration to England:

Part 1:

http://video.ias.edu/node/5304

Part 2:

https://video.ias.edu/topology/2013/1002-PatrickGeary

This lecture above says that there is no genetic evidence of large scale emigration of East Germanic tribes from East-Central Europe to the Roman Empire.
 
All in all - a striking continuity between Bronze Age Poland and modern Poland. R1a, R1a, R1a everywhere... But we need samples from the Iron Age to see if Germanic tribes invaded and expelled Bronze Age Poles, or never visited that area.

Another possibility is that Bronze Age "Poles" were first Germanized (in the Iron Age), and later Slavicized (in the Dark Ages).

And there was R1a continuity all the time, language changed, but actual migrations of people were not massive.

Anyway - it doesn't look like East Germanic tribes were R1a and later emigrated with that R1a, because there is almost no R1a in North Africa, Iberia, Italy, France, etc. - places to which East Germanic tribes allegedly came from Poland.

So either R1a people were expelled from Poland in the Iron Age, and later returned in the Dark Ages - or there was never actually a massive East Germanic immigration and later emigration from Poland to the Roman Empire.

==========================

This genetic continuity since the Bronze Age, and throughout the Iron Age, until the Middle Ages and modern times (West Slavic populations) is what prof. Janusz Piontek and prof. Hanna Koćka-Krenz of Poznan University have been claiming for years (based on anthropological analysis of skulls, bones and teeth, because DNA was unavailable back then):



Translated from: http://archeowiesci.pl/2008/11/12/od-kiedy-slowianie-zyja-nad-wisla-i-odra/

The only partial interruptions of genetic and population continuity between the Oder and the Vistula since the Bronze Age until now was first the German "Drang nach Osten" expansion since the Middle Ages onwards, and later the expulsion of German, as well as culturally Germanized (descended from Medieval West Slavs) population after WW2.

And of course we still don't have any Y-DNA samples from the Iron Age - only mtDNA (link below):

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0110839

But skull shapes of the Iron Age population were strikingly similar to skull shapes of the later West Slavs.

we should know the subclades of R1a
bronze age Polish R1a may be different from Slavic or present day Polish R1a
maybe even some bronze age Polish R1b is yet to be found
 

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