patrizio22
Regular Member
- Messages
- 25
- Reaction score
- 4
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- 0
- Location
- Paris, France
- Y-DNA haplogroup
- j-z1884
- mtDNA haplogroup
- U5a1a1
I forgot to say that the data was on Family Search.
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I forgot to say that the data was on Family Search.
many thanks
I'm browsing the birth certificates. Very, painfully interesting. This site has got more stuff than Family Search. Family Search has got more data from Americans of Italian origins.
Hello MINDustry, here is some interesting reading for you:-
what counts really is your autosmal as your father paternal line is only a small part of who you are. J1 is just an ingredient in the minestrone. Dont forget that IJ were one haplogroup some 30,000 years ago or more. I is what you find mostly in the Balkans and Scandinavia so there is nothing that straight forward about genetics. The human journey is very long and current terminologies are pretty recent compared to the human migration story.
Epigravettian | Georgia | Satsurblia cave | M | 13,380-13,130 cal BP | 1,460,368 | J1 | Low coverage. L255+, CTS426/PF4641/YSC307+, CTS10759+, CTS11188/PF4784+, CTS11636/PF4785+, CTS6101/PF3543+, F4306+, FGC20301/Y6337/ZS3624+, FGC20303/Y6336/ZS3620+, CTS3219/ZS80-. | K3 | Mutations reported here are with respect to the Reconstructed Sapiens Reference Sequence: 146T, 150T, 152T, [235G not found], 247G, 560T, 769G, 825T, 1018G, 1097T, 1811G, 2758G, 2885T, 3480G, 3594C, 4104A, 4312C, 4769A, 6027T, 7146A, 7256C, 7498A, 7521G, 7657C, [8188G not found], 8468C, 8655C, 8701A, 9055A, 9540T, 9698C, [9852T not found], 10398A, 10550G, 10664C, 10688G, 10810T, 10873T, 10915T, 11299C, 11467G, 11914G, 12308G, 12372A, 12705C, 13105A, 13276A, 13506C, 13650C, 14167T, 14198A, 14212C, 14798C, 15924G, [16093C not found], 16129G, 16148T, [16153A not found], 16187C, 16189T, 16223C, 16224C, 16230A, 16278C | Jones 2015;Fu 2016; Additional info on Y-SNA SNPs from Chris Rоttеnѕtеіnеr |
Epigravettian | Georgia | Satsurblia cave | M | 13,380-13,130 cal BP | 1,460,368 | J1 | Low coverage. L255+, CTS426/PF4641/YSC307+, CTS10759+, CTS11188/PF4784+, CTS11636/PF4785+, CTS6101/PF3543+, F4306+, FGC20301/Y6337/ZS3624+, FGC20303/Y6336/ZS3620+, CTS3219/ZS80-. | K3 | Mutations reported here are with respect to the Reconstructed Sapiens Reference Sequence: 146T, 150T, 152T, [235G not found], 247G, 560T, 769G, 825T, 1018G, 1097T, 1811G, 2758G, 2885T, 3480G, 3594C, 4104A, 4312C, 4769A, 6027T, 7146A, 7256C, 7498A, 7521G, 7657C, [8188G not found], 8468C, 8655C, 8701A, 9055A, 9540T, 9698C, [9852T not found], 10398A, 10550G, 10664C, 10688G, 10810T, 10873T, 10915T, 11299C, 11467G, 11914G, 12308G, 12372A, 12705C, 13105A, 13276A, 13506C, 13650C, 14167T, 14198A, 14212C, 14798C, 15924G, [16093C not found], 16129G, 16148T, [16153A not found], 16187C, 16189T, 16223C, 16224C, 16230A, 16278C | Jones 2015;Fu 2016; Additional info on Y-SNA SNPs from Chris Rоttеnѕtеіnеr |
Well, J1 means my fathers line came from the Middle East correct? Not much different from other Europeans. Anything in the "J" haplogroup means Near Eastern origin.
According to the Wikipedia article, J1 started in the Zagros Mountains in Turkey and moved southward where it spread to the Levant and Arabian Peninsula.
What's the difference between J1 and J2? The answer is not much. They both came from the Middle East and they both had contact with Semitic speaking peoples in the Levant at one point. The only difference is that one stayed in Mesopotamia for longer while the other went Westward to the Levant.
The point I'm trying to make is that there is no such thing as "Semitic people". It's not an ethnicity. Semitic is a language group. If a Semitic person decided to speak a different language they would cease to be a Semitic person and instead be something else. They are Middle Eastern people. The Assyrians, Lebanese, Israelis, and the Ancient Mesopotamians. They are the exact same people DNA wise is my point. They all come from the Middle East.
I took my Autosomal results and they came out as they would for anybody with a mix of Southern European and Northern European ancestry. I think I only scored something like 3.20% Middle Eastern on one of the Autosomal calculators. 23andme only gave me 0.1% Middle Eastern and North African which is laughable. I thought as an Italian I'd have MUCH more than that, but when I viewed the results of White Americans almost 90% scored something in a foreign category whether it was Sub Saharan African, Native American, MENA, etc.
Apparently Asehkenazi is listed under European. The Conservative Estimate for my Ashkenazi was 0.2% at a 95% confidence rate but jumped up to 3.4% at a 75% confidence rate. I asked a geneticist and he said to trust the Conservative estimate more than the Original or Speculative.
I've read all of those links. Thanks.
I don't think it's Moorish/Jewish since those were mostly in Iberia (Spain and Portugal), not Central Italy. I think that's the least likely possibility.. It could be Phoenician/Greek or Neolithic. How would I get a paper trail started? Maybe I'll never know the answer.You would need to check the history of geographical area in Italy. J1 can be anything from recent 'Moorish' Jewish converts to older Phoenician or way back Neolithic. Paper trail helps sometimes but I don't think its enough.
J2 is quite old 22,000 ybp and it seems to have a different story and migration more connected to Anatolia Caucasus and Iran. Its much more common in the South of Europe and if not mistaken some ancient samples have already been found in Europe. Languages are ambiguous and not really anything to go with. They are learned and not inate, and often change according to who is dominating and Economical success of the particular group. We have many instances where Languages are swapped even in recent history.
Most welcome
To my knowledge, R1b never went into the Levant. J1 and J2, did.I would not be surprised to see either haplogroup in Southern/Mediterranean Europe. They may have been there before R1b.
To my knowledge, R1b never went into the Levant. J1 and J2, did.
I'm thinking my J1 and the J1 and J2 of many other Southern Europeans could be Phoenician originally.
To my knowledge, R1b never went into the Levant. J1 and J2, did.
I'm thinking my J1 and the J1 and J2 of many other Southern Europeans could be Phoenician originally.
Well people always say they are. I'm just correcting a misunderstanding.How many times we have said the haplogroups and ethnicity are not related?
Phoenicians were an ethnicity of antiquity!
Makes sense. I just find it funny how it's also Sub-Saharan African along with Western European.the R1b-v88 that went into africa entered via egypt, then to sudan, chad etc.............it migrated from beyond the northern Levant through southern Levant to NE africa.
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