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Thread: we might have political anomaly at Turkey.

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    we might have political anomaly at Turkey.



    well the latest news and rumors say that military officeers took the power from Erdogan,

    nothing is certain, except big Army movement are on the loose in Turkey big cities
    Turkey has the second biggest Nato force conserning the man numbers,
    and such movements can not pass unoticed,

    well military training in such numbers and with out NOTAM surely is exclused,
    the other option is about a very strong terroristic attack,

    lets hope that the night will be calm,

    Red alert has given to all nearby countries and military units,
    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
    ΝΕΜΕΣΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΙΣΗ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΣΙ ΔΕ

    When there is no shame
    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

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    Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.

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    Political anomaly at Turkey

    it seems military officers are about to take the power fro Erdogan,

    huge military forces are moving at all Turkey's big cities, airports etc,

    i remind that Turkey has the second biggest army at Nato concerning human numbers,

    red alert to all nearby countries has given,

    prime minister of Turkey mr Yildirim says about an effort to take the power





    well lets hope the night although seems long, pass as easy and quiet as can be.

    since we have no names yet, I can not give any more infos,

    Erdogan was vacations at Alicarnassos

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    Just heard this on the news as I was driving. The Army was the last institution which Erdogan didn't control.

    The military, or part of the military, has issued a statement that they have taken power and want to restore democracy.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...rd-in-ankara1/

    That web site has video of the tanks in the street.

    A group within Turkey's military has attempted to overthrow the government and security forces have been called in to "do what is necessary," Prime Minister Binali Yildirim said on Friday.
    "Some people illegally undertook an illegal action outside of the chain of command," Yildirim said in comments broadcast by private channel NTV. "The government elected by the people remains in charge. This government will only go when the people say so."
    Those behind the attempted coup would pay the highest price, he added.

    http://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/turkey/1.731225


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    as it seems the high general of Turkish army forces is prisoner of the new status,

    and only the Gokcek the mayor of Ankara is resisting and gathers civilians to 'free' the roads, a human shield to prevent the military forces,

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    So, did they succeed or not?
    If yes, Turkey has hope. Turkish army as far as I know has always favored Ataturk's ideas.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by arvistro View Post
    So, did they succeed or not?
    If yes, Turkey has hope. Turkish army as far as I know has always favored Ataturk's ideas.
    So far they are succeeding, according to the news here the AK party's attempt to rally the population radiates a sign of weakness.
    Let's not forget that Turkey has a tradition of these military coups since the birth of the Republic, so this isn't really a shock, honestly I was wondering what took so long, this ****head has been tramping over everything Attaturk has built and up until now it seemed like his power in Turkey was absolute.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Just heard this on the news as I was driving. The Army was the last institution which Erdogan didn't control.
    Part of army was still free. Most of generals were replaced/ imprisoned.

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    well seems like Erdogan knew well what was going on to happened,

    airlive.net the international watching system show that erdogan's presidential airplane has left from Turkey,

    on the other hand the marks of boats show a huge movement at island of Kos at Aegan sea,
    something remarkable for night hours,
    probably Erdogan is at Nato forces that before few months deployed at Aegean sea,
    Nobody knows, for sure,
    there is also huge movement at Greece Govermental military forces, and red alert is on.
    probably Erdogan will ask assylum to Aegean Nato (italy USA Canada Deutschland) ships or Greece, or escapes via greece if lost the power,

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    yup

    the most certain is that he is at the German NATO ship of the Aegean forces.

    that explains why NATO came and still stays at Aegean, although the immigration flew has decreased to about 0

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    Good for them. Honestly I respected pan-Turkism- they kept the rabid Islamists in check, even if much of their history was based on lies, and this is from a Balkan Slav with a strong contempt for Islamic expansionism. They opposed both Islam and Eurasia. Now we've seen a synthesis of Islamism and pan-Turkism. Such a shame to the memory of the great pan-Turkist movement of the past. Regardless I could never get over the genocide of Armenians, Greeks, Assyrians, etc. Turkey is falling. The Israeli leadership is stupid to try to revive its relationship with them. Israel should move on to Greece and Cyprus for friendship- although unfortunately many Greeks blame the Jews for the world's problems (no surprise there).

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    I didn't realize you started two threads on this so I already stated my opinion on the other one.

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    They failed... Was that last chance for opposition?

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    2 members found this post helpful.
    If anyone was still in doubt, Turkey should never have been included in NATO. Perhaps ten years ago, before Erdogan, it looked as if Turkey was on its way to becoming a modern, progressive, prosperous country. It no longer looks like that.

    Erdogan is becoming a Hitler like dictator, in my opinion, with Muslim fundamentalism instead of white racism as his credo, and there were all those people on the streets cheering him on. Very disheartening.

    Not, of course, that I favor military coups in general, but the Turkish army has had a history of intervening to actually bring the country back to democracy instead of vice versa. I guess they left it too long; half the army had been replaced.

    This retreat into the past has infected Turkey as well, and I think a lot of the blame can be laid at the door of the Saudis and their funding of Islamic schools and other forms of fundamentalist propaganda.

    The solution? I have no idea.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post

    This retreat into the past has infected Turkey as well, and I think a lot of the blame can be laid at the door of the Saudis and their funding of Islamic schools and other forms of fundamentalist propaganda.

    The solution? I have no idea.
    A long steady grind against this ideology. No easy solution, though. Go after these clerics in mosques, madrasas and internet. To start the fight, let's stop buying Saudi's oil, this should get their attention.
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    the funny is that as president, he ban twitter and other internetic forms of communication,
    yesterday he used Skype to communicate with his citizens,

    anyway democracy is better, and as we see yesterday, many citizens defend their constitution,
    except if the whole case was theatre,

    but that makes Erdogan more powerfull, and I wonder about future,
    how more west or deep islamic Turkey will be,

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    the funny is that as president, he ban twitter and other internetic forms of communication,
    yesterday he used Skype to communicate with his citizens,
    Hypocrisy worthy of a dictator.

    anyway democracy is better, and as we see yesterday, many citizens defend their constitution,
    except if the whole case was theatre,

    but that makes Erdogan more powerfull, and I wonder about future,
    how more west or deep islamic Turkey will be,
    Erdogan position was very strong to start with, same as Putin's position in Russia. They were elected by majority of citizens who dream about powerful Turkey, the old Ottoman Empire. Likewise, Russians about Russian Empire. "I will make Turkey great again!", "I will make Russia great again." I will make America great again, says Trump. A dictator in making.
    Wake up sheep,... I mean, people.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    It's kinda funny, how some people here, obviously with not much idea about Kemalism are being supportive for a military coup. Let me tell you something about the military and this glorified "Westernized" Kemalistic ideology. It is the very basis of the racist Turkish education system. It is the reason why Turkey intervented in Cyprus (to my fellow Greeks).

    If anyone thinks this military and Kemalism is going to change the country into the right direction they are being to optimistic. May I remind the very reason why the AKP has so much support in among the voters is the very inability of the former Kemalistic regime. Kemalism is not the solution but the very root of the evil in the Turkish society. AKP and the Kemalists don't take much from each other.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    It's kinda funny, how some people here, obviously with not much idea about Kemalism are being supportive for a military coup. Let me tell you something about the military and this glorified "Westernized" Kemalistic ideology. It is the very basis of the racist Turkish education system. It is the reason why Turkey intervented in Cyprus (to my fellow Greeks).

    If anyone thinks this military and Kemalism is going to change the country into the right direction they are being to optimistic. May I remind the very reason why the AKP has so much support in among the voters is the very inability of the former Kemalistic regime. Kemalism is not the solution but the very root of the evil in the Turkish society. AKP and the Kemalists don't take much from each other.
    Alan,
    do you know who supported the grey wolves?
    Erdogan or military?

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    If anyone thinks this military and Kemalism is going to change the country into the right direction they are being to optimistic. May I remind the very reason why the AKP has so much support in among the voters is the very inability of the former Kemalistic regime. Kemalism is not the solution but the very root of the evil in the Turkish society. AKP and the Kemalists don't take much from each other.
    Personally, I believe that certain countries and cultures are better served by centrist values, politics and governments--and Turkey is one of them. Though Kemalism implemented many progressive, secularist, socialist policies within post WW1 Turkey, it also ironically touched on Stalinist totalitarianism veiled as "nationalism" in a few places, as far as seeking to aggressively rid Turkey of "cultural difference" and unite all underneath a narrowly defined Turkish identity and homogeneity through state sponsored violence--which is why the Kurds and Armenians were persecuted, disenfranchised and massacred. Extreme-leftists can be just as intolerant and destructive as the right-wing.

    I've said this elsewhere recently--fundamentalism in the modern world is more concerned with power, identity and legitimacy than it is to religion, which is usually secondary. Muslims find themselves in a peculiar position because unlike Christians, who have become thoroughly secular throughout much of the West and have a more decentralized and individualized notion of Christianity/spirituality/belief, Islam is intimately and innately attached to their identity; it's even more important than their ethnicity and nationality in many cases. And that identity is connected to a traditional value system that finds itself at odds with science, modernity, secularism and Western cultural dominance. Therefore, of course resistance and pushback in the form of an opposing ideology and worldview, rooted in fundamentalism, is to be expected. Historically--across all countries, peoples and belief systems, an inability to reconcile social complexity (power dynamics and hegemony/identity politics) lays at the heart of fundamentalist uprisings. Under Erdogan, the pendulum is swinging in the opposite direction, which will have dire consequences for the Turkish people who are perhaps better served by a system that allows for all, both the traditional and the secular, to have equal voices.

    I also think it's important to mention that Erdogan won the last election by a 52/48 margin, so it's not as if the Turkish people overwhelmingly chose an Islamist. There is a real tension between traditional Muslim values and the Western secular values. Interestingly enough, the USA finds itself in a somewhat similar situation--though a bit less volatile--as far as the tension between conservative Christian values and secular liberalism both vying for dominance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    Alan,
    do you know who supported the grey wolves?
    Erdogan or military?
    Both, but the AKP mostly because they use the grey wolves otherwise they have their own (Neo_Ottoman) agenda. However especially the military is infested by pro Grey wolves.
    When the Military went on the streets many were making the Grey wolve sign.

    This is the general who is responsible for the coup attempt. And you know who is also responsible for the destruction of Kurdish districts/cities of Sur and Cizir in this very year? Exactly it is the same guy. How can you expect from me that I take these guys as "saviours". Believe me when I tell you the military is even more racist and worse than AKP.


    The AKP is anti West, but they also show it. The Military is anti West but they are good in playing the double faced game. Remember how they went over to Cyprus infront of the eyes of NATO?

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    Alan, you are a Kurd. So, your information is biased.
    This is a sad moment in the modern history of Turkey. A failed putch is good oportunity for a dictator like Erdoğan, to fullfill his Islamic agenda. He is destroying any legacy of Ataturk. I see a Turkey now at the side of Russia and China, against West.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    That was basically the biggest nonsense argument I have been given since years. I might be Kurd but obviously my information is not biased, the article is from Turkish news paper. The very same guy who started the operations in destroying Kurdish cities with Tanks (the same general sent Tanks and Helicopters on to the streets of Istanbul why should he have any issues in doing it so in Kurdish cities), was also the guy who started this coup. If a fascist military tries to overthrow a powerhungry regime, don't expect from any sane and not biased individual, to be supportive for that. Ironiy is that you call my informations biased because your own judgement is biased due to your political view on this.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by LABERIA View Post
    Alan, you are a Kurd. So, your information is biased.
    This is a sad moment in the modern history of Turkey. A failed putch is good oportunity for a dictator like Erdoğan, to fullfill his Islamic agenda. He is destroying any legacy of Ataturk. I see a Turkey now at the side of Russia and China, against West.
    No, Turkey would rather ally with Qatar due to the Sunni dictatorship. Greece, Cyprus, and Israel would outweigh any benefits of Russia aligning with Turkey. Personally I wish that Greece, Cyprus, and Israel would turn their backs on Russia but Putin and his propaganda machine are really good at propping up Eurasianist political movements in other countries. Russia has no interest in Turkey but would rather try to counter America and Israel to seek favor with the Kurds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dinarid View Post
    No, Turkey would rather ally with Qatar due to the Sunni dictatorship. Greece, Cyprus, and Israel would outweigh any benefits of Russia aligning with Turkey. Personally I wish that Greece, Cyprus, and Israel would turn their backs on Russia but Putin and his propaganda machine are really good at propping up Eurasianist political movements in other countries. Russia has no interest in Turkey but would rather try to counter America and Israel to seek favor with the Kurds.
    Don't spend your time with hypothetical coalitions between countries that can offer only their geographical position. You need a key to understand a situation. Behind the conflicts, the wars, the different crisis and military putchs is the conflict between great powers. It is not a coincidence that a few days before the putch there was a mea culpa of Erdoğan about the Russian jet.


    Of course, the interest of every country is important in the game, but not decisive. Who decide in the end are the big guys.

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