GEDMatch HarappaWorld Gedmatch, post and compare your admixtures to ancient and contemporary.

[bicicleur 2]

Unfortunately, no matter what calculator is used, a poor quality, low coverage sample is not going to give reliable results.

I also think it would be better if genomes could be constructed that could be ancestral to the anciant DNA studied, instead of present day populations.

That being said, there is no straightforward method to construct such 'ancestral genomes'.

 

[Pax Augusta]

Unfortunately, no matter what calculator is used, a poor quality, low coverage sample is not going to give reliable results.

I agree with you. But this is also true for the peer-reviewed papers.

 

[Angela]

I also think it would be better if genomes could be constructed that could be ancestral to the anciant DNA studied, instead of present day populations.

That being said, there is no straightforward method to construct such 'ancestral genomes'.

I'm sorry, Bicicleur, I'm not following. What do you mean by "construct ancestral genomes" that are "ancestral" to the ancient dna?

Do you mean you think that calculators or analysis based on ancient dna is preferable to trying to use "clusters" based on distributions of alleles in modern populations?

If so, I very much agree. Clusters like "West European", or "Northern European" are just the alleles present in those areas today. They "cover" lots of "other" ancestry. Dienekes explained that years ago with reference to his own calculators. "Northern European", for example, contains "EEF like" ancestry. Another way of saying something similar is that these are "drifted" populations.

Still, no matter what reference populations you use, whether you're still trying to use Admixture, or you're using dstats, or other statistical methods, poor coverage samples shouldn't be used to build any grand theories, imo.

 

[Sile]

I agree with you. But this is also true for the peer-reviewed papers.

Yes, agreed ............but over half of all ancient samples are of poor quality..................it still does not stop scholars and the populace discussing these samples .

 

[LeBrok]

IMO, Harappa is too weird for ancient samples.......better is too keep ancient samples with ancient programs . like this below

Kit Num: M632231
Threshold of components set to 1.000
Threshold of method set to 0.25%
Personal data has been read. 20 approximations mode.
Gedmatch.Com

puntDNAL K12 Ancient 4-Ancestors Oracle

This program is based on 4-Ancestors Oracle Version 0.96 by Alexandr Burnashev.
Questions about results should be sent to him at: [email protected]
Original concept proposed by Sergey Kozlov.
Many thanks to Alexandr for helping us get this web version developed.

puntDNAL K12 Ancient Oracle

Admix Results (sorted):

#	Population	Percent
1	Anatolian_NF	54.49
2	Near_East	27.18
3	Caucasus_HG	15.94
4	European_HG	2.38

Actually we can learn more from HarappaWorld than from simplified runs like K12 or K15. From K12 above we see CaucasianHG, but we don't know if it came from Caucasian HG or Iranian Farmer or maybe it is much more ancient from pure Caucasian admixture source. From HarappaWorld I know the source, therefore relationship to other populations of Near East. Both Caucasian HG and Iranian Farmer contain Baloch admixture in Harappa run. Now Jordan EN fellow doesn't have Baloch at all, so I know that Caucasus HG and Iranian Farmer didn't come here yet to Levant. I also know from Harappa that European HG portion came from WHG and not from EHG. Harappa also calculates much longer than K12 or 15 and I think have more complexity and precision. K12 calculated in 0.82 seconds compared to Harappa 3.31 seconds.

EN Jordan, .Ain Ghazal	7.5k BC
M632231	I1707
Run time	3.31
S-Indian	-
Baloch	-
Caucasian	27.79
NE-Euro	2.52
SE-Asian	-
Siberian	-
NE-Asian	-
Papuan	-
American	-
Beringian	-
Mediterranean	34.48
SW-Asian	34.6
San	0.51
E-African	-
Pygmy	-
W-African	0.1

puntDNAL K12 Ancient 4-Ancestors Oracle

This program is based on 4-Ancestors Oracle Version 0.96 by Alexandr Burnashev.
Questions about results should be sent to him at: [email protected]
Original concept proposed by Sergey Kozlov.
Many thanks to Alexandr for helping us get this web version developed.

puntDNAL K12 Ancient Oracle

Admix Results (sorted):

#	Population	Percent
1	Anatolian_NF	60.35
2	European_HG	26.49
3	Near_East	8.90
4	Sub-Saharan	2.20
5	Caucasus_HG	2.06

Here again I can be more precise which source contributed to Caucasus (was it Caucasian HG or Iranian Farmer) or European HG (was it from WHG or EHG/Steppe). Harappa has 16 population sources to 12 of K12, therefore more could be learned from Harappa. I can see more, that's why I like it and use it.

 

[LeBrok]

I agree with you. But this is also true for the peer-reviewed papers.

Caution is required for sure.
With more and more of low quality samples we still can build statistical view of ancient inhabitants. This is what I did with low quality Remedello samples to get one decent average "person".

 

[bicicleur 2]

Do you mean you think that calculators or analysis based on ancient dna is preferable to trying to use "clusters" based on distributions of alleles in modern populations?

yes, that is what I mean
the question is which anciant dna

 

[Sile]

Actually we can learn more from HarappaWorld than from simplified runs like K12 or K15. From K12 above we see CaucasianHG, but we don't know if it came from Caucasian HG or Iranian Farmer or maybe it is much more ancient from pure Caucasian admixture source. From HarappaWorld I know the source, therefore relationship to other populations of Near East. Both Caucasian HG and Iranian Farmer contain Baloch admixture in Harappa run. Now Jordan EN fellow doesn't have Baloch at all, so I know that Caucasus HG and Iranian Farmer didn't come here yet to Levant. I also know from Harappa that European HG portion came from WHG and not from EHG. Harappa also calculates much longer than K12 or 15 and I think have more complexity and precision. K12 calculated in 0.82 seconds compared to Harappa 3.31 seconds.

EN Jordan, .Ain Ghazal	7.5k BC
M632231	I1707
Run time	3.31
S-Indian	-
Baloch	-
Caucasian	27.79
NE-Euro	2.52
SE-Asian	-
Siberian	-
NE-Asian	-
Papuan	-
American	-
Beringian	-
Mediterranean	34.48
SW-Asian	34.6
San	0.51
E-African	-
Pygmy	-
W-African	0.1

Here again I can be more precise which source contributed to Caucasus (was it Caucasian HG or Iranian Farmer) or European HG (was it from WHG or EHG/Steppe). Harappa has 16 population sources to 12 of K12, therefore more could be learned from Harappa. I can see more, that's why I like it and use it.

Maybe, but more pop sources does not mean more accuracy.

Take K36 program, I have never found accuracy in this ............then again I found MDLP K23b accurate, but he ( mr. V ) uses a different system

But, for me , I ignore everything under 10%

 

[davef]

I bet my scores would turn out more like the mainland greek or albanian.

 

[Angela]

yes, that is what I mean
the question is which anciant dna

Yes, I agree. The most cautious thing to do when you have low coverage samples is to do as LeBrok has done and average them. I think the data also has to be looked at in multiple ways as well: Admixture, PCA, formal stats. There should be general agreement or something is wrong. Not all calculators are created equal as well, and not everybody knows what they're doing when they're playing around with these things and popping numbers into the equations. Then there's the whole issue of interpretation. I've seen some hair-raising interpretations of these kinds of results popping up.

All of that said, I think that LeBrok has pulled some interesting and informative information out of this calculator and a lot of it makes sense.

 

[Pax Augusta]

Is there hunter-gatherer from Karelia on GedMatch?

Sample Gedmatch ID Snips
Karelian-HG M652848 180k
Yamna 1 M951285 250k
Yamna 2 M020637 200k

Karelian-HG (EHG_Oleniy_Ostrov I0061) M652848
Yamna 1 (Yamnaya_Sok_River I0443) M951285
Yamna 2 (Yamnaya I0231) M020637

Alberstedt I0118 - M467300
Halberstadt LBA I0099 M344778
Corded Ware I0104 M622615
Els Trocs Spain EN R1b1 I0410 M684242*
LBK I0054 - kit M206308*
Corded Ware I0103 - kit M966366
Unetice I0047 - kit M370010
Bell Beaker I0112 M117132
Esperstedt I0172 M303249

T185931 - RISE560 Bell Beaker - Ausburg, Germany

Ostuni1 - Ostuni, Brindisi, Italy - Gravettian (27,810-27,430 cal BP) Gedmatch ID: T947885

M987765 Tep001 Anatolia Early Neolithic [7014 BC] K1a n/a
M830273 Tep003 Anatolia Early Neolithic [7174 BC] N1b1a G2a-P287>P15>PF3159
M471006 I1705 Jordan EBA [2198-1966 BC] H14a J1-P58>Z2324
M682666 I1730 Jordan EBA [2489-2299 BC] R0a1a J2b-M205>PF7331

M631469 RISE349 Hungary MBA [2034-1748 BC] - T2b3
M370663 I0419 Potapovka [2200-1900 BC] R1a-M417>Z93 U2e1h
M630274 I0432 Poltavka outlier [2925-2536 BC] R1a-M417>Z94 U5a1c
M191719 RISE431 Corded Ware Proto-Unetice Poland [2286-2048 BC] R1a-M417 T2e
M974598 RISE374 Maros Hungary [1866-1619 BC] G2a-P287>P15>PF3177 T2b

M733797 RISE109 Unetice EBA Poland [1954-1772 BC] - U4
M453254 RISE154 Unetice EBA Poland [1925-1765 BC] - K1a4a1
M239638 RISE586 Unetice EBA Czech Republic [?] - K1b1a
M375165 RISE373 Maros Hungary [1886-1696 BC] - K1a2a
M130094 RISE61 Battle Axe Denmark [2650-2300 BC] R1a-M417>Z284>CTS8401 J1c4

M235073 I0354 Srubnaya Outlier [2014-1692 BC] U5a1 -
M328175 I0423 Srubnaya [1850-1200 BC] J2b1a2a R1a-M417>Z93
M396326 I0803 Unetice EBA Germany [2132-1942 BC] H4a1a1a -

M825671 I1293 Iran Mesolithic [9100-8600 BC] HV2 J2a-M410>CTS1085
M595455 I1670 Iran Chalcolithic [4839-4617 BC] U3a'c -
M902476 I1662 Iran Chalcolithic [4831-4612 BC] K1a12a J2a-M410>PF5008
M155294 I1674 Iran Chalcolithic [3972-3800 BC] I1c G1-M342>GG372
M873184 I1665 Iran Chalcolithic [3956-3796 BC] U7a -
M381564 F38 Iran EIA [971-832 BC] N1a3a R1b-Z2103>L584>Y23838
T637158 I1955 Iran Late Medieval [1430–1485 AD] U1a1 -

M417230 I1407 Armenia Chalcolithic [4350-3700 BC] H L1a-M27
M133098 I1409 Armenia Chalcolithic [4229-3985 BC] U4a -
M162111 I1632 Armenia Chalcolithic [4230-4000 BC] K1a8 L1a-M27
M734029 I1634 Armenia Chalcolithic [4330-4060 BC] H2a1 L1a-M27
M731608 I1633 Armenia EBA [2619-2410 BC] H1u -
M340653 I1635 Armenia EBA [2619-2465 BC] X2f R1b-M343>L389>V1636
M487536 RISE413 Armenia MBA [1906-1698 BC] T2c1f R1b-M343>L389>P297
M124777 RISE416 Armenia MBA [1643-1445 BC] K1a17a E-M84
M575241 RISE423 Armenia MBA [1402-1211 BC] T2a E-M84>CTS1096 (Y5412-, Y14899-, PF6751-)
M578721 RISE408 Armenia LBA [1209-1009 BC] I5c J2b-M102>L283>CTS3681
M263493 RISE412 Armenia LBA [1193-945 BC] U4c1a -
M062682 RISE396 Armenia LBA [1192-937 BC] H6b -
M497255 RISE397 Armenia LBA [1048-855 BC] T1a2 R1b-Z2103>Z2106>BY3296

M471006 I1705 Jordan EBA [2198-1966 BC] H14a J1-P58>Z2324
M682666 I1730 Jordan EBA [2489-2299 BC] R0a1a J2b-M205>PF7331

M987765 Tep001 Anatolia Early Neolithic [7014 BC] K1a n/a
M830273 Tep003 Anatolia Early Neolithic [7174 BC] N1b1a G2a-P287>P15>PF3159
M300627 Kum4 Anatolia EBA [3500–2800 BC] n/a -

M733797 RISE109 Unetice EBA Poland [1954-1772 BC] U4 -
M453254 RISE154 Unetice EBA Poland [1925-1765 BC] K1a4a1 -
M239638 RISE586 Unetice EBA Czech Republic [?] K1b1a -
M484113 RISE139 Unetice Poland [2135-1923 BC] U2e1f1 n/a
M069028 RISE145 Unetice Poland [2188-1958 BC] H6a1b -

M483824 RISE598 Lithuania LBA [908-485 BC] H2a2 R1a-L62>M417

M669778 RISE1 Corded Ware Poland [2865-2578 BC] K1b1a1 R1b-M343>L754
M191719 RISE431 Corded Ware Proto-Unetice Poland [2286-2048 BC] T2e R1a-M417

M631469 RISE349 Hungary MBA [2034-1748 BC] T2b3 -
M375165 RISE373 Maros Hungary [1886-1696 BC] K1a2a -
M974598 RISE374 Maros Hungary [1866-1619 BC] T2 G2a-P287>P15>PF3177

M130094 RISE61 Battle Axe Denmark [2650-2300 BC] J1c4 R1a-M417>Z284>CTS8401

M370663 I0419 Potapovka [2200-1900 BC] U2e1h R1a-M417>Z93
M630274 I0432 Poltavka outlier [2925-2536 BC] U5a1c R1a-M417>Z94

M214301 RISE595 Montenegro LBA [?] U5a2 -
M836655 RISE596 Montenegro IA [?] X1'2'3 -

M030961 K8 Bulgaria IA [450-400 BC] n/a -
M212372 P192-1 Bulgaria IA [800-500 BC] U3b E-M78>Z1919
M540478 T2G2 Bulgaria IA [850-700 BC] HV(16311) -
M777769 V2 Bulgaria LBA [1500-1100 BC] n/a -

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?8672-List-of-ancient-samples-on-GEDmatch

 

[LeBrok]

Sample Gedmatch ID Snips
Karelian-HG M652848 180k
Yamna 1 M951285 250k
Yamna 2 M020637 200k

Karelian-HG (EHG_Oleniy_Ostrov I0061) M652848
Yamna 1 (Yamnaya_Sok_River I0443) M951285
Yamna 2 (Yamnaya I0231) M020637

Thanks PA for effort, but this kit doesn't work:
ERROR: Kit number M652848 not found.

 

[LeBrok]

Any more volunteers? What about so many Albanians here, can you post your Harappa, and indicate if you have ancestors from North or South.

 

[Pax Augusta]

Thanks PA for effort, but this kit doesn't work:
ERROR: Kit number M652848 not found.

I'm sorry, they have probably deleted it, not able to find another Karelian-HG Gedmatch Id.

 

[Dibran]

What do my results generally mean? Is that relatively common for people in the Balkans are in Albania generally?

 

[brg12007]

@dibran, if you look at the chart a few posts up you'll see your results seem pretty similar to mainland greece and my results personally as well, which i guess indicates some north european ancestry, some med ancestry who i presume were the earliest inhabitants of the region? although i could be wrong on this, and you don't have s. indian or se asian percentages so that would indicate you dont have any roma ancestry. the near east/caucasus could suggest maybe some turkish or jewish ancestry? because a small percentage seems common in lots of southern europeans but thats just my take on things.

 

[Dibran]

Any more volunteers? What about so many Albanians here, can you post your Harappa, and indicate if you have ancestors from North or South.

LeBrok I was included in the result. I am Gheg Albanian from Diber. Fathers origins from Mirdita.

It says im close to a Greek mainlander (if I'm interpreting that correctly).


I don't know of any Greek ancestry. My moms side are part of the Shpata clan who claim descent from Gjin Bua Shpata of Epirus. As far as I know he was Arvanite. Maybe that's the connection? But my moms family has been in Puka Albania and Montenegro(Hoti/Gruda) for the last 300 years.

My paternal grandmother had the surname Stefa/Stafa. Interestingly I had some Greek relatives with the surname Stefas. Idk if there is a connection but it was through my fathers side. She was T1(my father took the test). Her cousin(paternal uncles son) came up E-V13. So now I have my grandmothers maternal and paternal line. I'm just missing my maternal grandfathers line.

My mothers grandmother bore the surname Pitsari which I had an Italian and Greek show up with some form of that last name, related through my mothers side. My mothers line through her father may be from Epirus. Her mother is from Gjakova in Kosova. We don't know any further back. My fathers line has been between Mirdita and Diber Vogel as far as we know.

 

[Dibran]

@dibran, if you look at the chart a few posts up you'll see your results seem pretty similar to mainland greece and my results personally as well, which i guess indicates some north european ancestry, some med ancestry who i presume were the earliest inhabitants of the region? although i could be wrong on this, and you don't have s. indian or se asian percentages so that would indicate you dont have any roma ancestry. the near east/caucasus could suggest maybe some turkish or jewish ancestry? because a small percentage seems common in lots of southern europeans but thats just my take on things.

Are you Macedonian?

My family has been in Diber Vogel for a few hundred years now. We have had family between Diver(Debar) and Ohrid for a while. Maybe there is the connection?

An overwhelming majority of my genetic relatives showed up Greek. Before 23andme removed the map feature, i snapped a picture of it.

 

[Dibran]

My Kit Number is in the picture(in case you want to compare kits or results.

 

[LeBrok]

LeBrok I was included in the result. I am Gheg Albanian from Diber. Fathers origins from Mirdita.

It says im close to a Greek mainlander (if I'm interpreting that correctly).


I don't know of any Greek ancestry. My moms side are part of the Shpata clan who claim descent from Gjin Bua Shpata of Epirus. As far as I know he was Arvanite. Maybe that's the connection? But my moms family has been in Puka Albania and Montenegro(Hoti/Gruda) for the last 300 years.

My paternal grandmother had the surname Stefa/Stafa. Interestingly I had some Greek relatives with the surname Stefas. Idk if there is a connection but it was through my fathers side. She was T1(my father took the test). Her cousin(paternal uncles son) came up E-V13. So now I have my grandmothers maternal and paternal line. I'm just missing my maternal grandfathers line.

My mothers grandmother bore the surname Pitsari which I had an Italian and Greek show up with some form of that last name, related through my mothers side. My mothers line through her father may be from Epirus. Her mother is from Gjakova in Kosova. We don't know any further back. My fathers line has been between Mirdita and Diber Vogel as far as we know.

Cool got it, thanks. Yes you plot very close to Greek Mainland. I was hoping for more Albanians to post their results. We need more Albanians to see how you fit in the big picture. Slavic countries around Albania and Greece plot much higher in Steppe admixtures.
Here is yours among other Mainland Greeks I have.

Greek, mainland	Population	S-Indian	Baloch	Caucasian	NE-Euro	SE-Asian	Siberian	NE-Asian	Papuan	American	Beringian	Mediterranean	SW-Asian	San	E-African	Pygmy	W-African
1	Mainland		6	33	24	0					1	24	12
2	Mainland		8	31	26	1			0			26	9
3	Mainland		4	31	24			1	0		0	28	12	0			0
Albania, Gheg, Diber	Dibran	0	5	30	27	0	0	0	0	0	0	30	8	0	0	0	0

I would say you have a little bit more Neolithic Farmer and Steppe than mainland Greece.