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Thread: Living Dna vs 23andMe for Albanian?

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    Living Dna vs 23andMe for Albanian?

    I have researched this quite a lot. I have read the FAQ and many testimonies. I know that LivingDna will let out 23andme compatible Raw data on June 10, and that their supposed "autosomal" depth will start getting better later in the year.
    And even after hearing all of this, I am still very skeptical something. I have read quite a few negative testimonies to the likes of "only works for british people."

    Considering that most of the DNA services give vague info for Albanians (either East Europe, or Italian/Greek) I am asking the Balkan users on this thread what their recommendation should be for a test.
    I am looking in the 150euro MAX range as that is half a monthly salary in Kosovo and not something easy to procure if paying rent, etc. Should Is the current LivingDna hype a con?

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    The Living DNA test is much more useful for British people now, but in a few months there won't be any difference between British and other Europeans, as all regions will be covered. That's what's make this test so promising.
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    I did a 23and me test, and thereafter i uploaded my raw data to MyHeritage and Ftdna.
    So those three are the only ones i can help you with.

    Personally i think Myheritage is useless for albanians at the moment, because you will just get something like 40% greek and 40% Balkan and maybe some northwest european.
    I dont think that helps much because how i see it their "greek" is just a mix between middle age greeks and middle age arvanitas. While their "balkan" seems to be a mix of all the northern balkanic people, including slavs(hence why some Poles score high balkans)

    Ftdna is even worse. It will just tell you that you are something like 80-100% southeast european and maybe some British isles.

    23andMe is a little better imo, because they will break down those components into smaller components like "italian" "eastern euro" and so on.

    Personally ill go for either LivingDna or Geno 2.0 the next time. They seem to be promising. I dont know how good they are for autosomal. But they seem pretty sharp when it comes to mtDNA and Y-DNA.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    The Living DNA test is much more useful for British people now, but in a few months there won't be any difference between British and other Europeans, as all regions will be covered. That's what's make this test so promising.
    Thanks for the reply. So if i do the test now I will get those benefits in a few months? Or I should wait a few months to do the test? Thank you for the reply.

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    Yeah for me being told my ancestry is southeastern european is pretty non valuable and not worth 150 euros. Ok so far it seems LivingDna will be the one. Thank you for the reply.

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    In my opinion it's a waste of money, because they took Albanians as reference population in 23andme and 99% of Albanians I've seen on 23andme seem to cluster more or less the same. If you seen one Albanian result you basically saw all of them.

    Unless you look for relatives, and genes which can be responsible for your health function, they have a good chance to tell what foods you are recommended to eat, physical abilities and so on 23and me for an extra 100 dollar, then I guess it worth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    Thanks for the reply. So if i do the test now I will get those benefits in a few months? Or I should wait a few months to do the test? Thank you for the reply.
    All the accounts will be upgraded to show the new percentages.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seanp View Post
    genes which can be responsible for your health function, they have a good chance to tell what foods you are recommended to eat, physical abilities and so on 23and me for an extra 100 dollar, then I guess it worth.
    23andMe only offers the health data in some countries. Most countries haven't allowed it. Kosovo isn't even on the 23andMe country list. If i were able to get that feature I would choose them in a second just for the convenience, but livingdna supposedly offers the health SnPs and is easier to sort out shipping with.
    I didn't know that they recommended diets based on genes though? Cholesterol sensitivity or what?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    accounts will be upgraded to show the new percentages.
    Ok cool, thanks for this.

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    Greetings Johane Derite,

    I do not recommend LivingDNA for the simple fact that we don't know what their Y-DNA coverage is (and obviously not 23andMe either), which to many is the most important part of their DNA. Either way you can't get as good of Y-DNA classification as FTDNA or YSEQ, since it is a preconfigured chip that only tests for certain SNPs. Furthermore if you're into Autosomal DNA, you will not really know how you compare to other Albanians, as this is a new company and very few Albs (if any) are tested here.

    Instead, I suggest FamilyTreeDNA's combined FamilyFinder + Y-DNA37/Y-DNA12, where many Albanians are tested. You may order through the Albanian project here: https://www.familytreedna.com/group-...es&code=B11086

    If you don't care for Autosomal DNA and only want Y-DNA, the other much cheaper option is YSEQ Alpha-Beta for $85 (Y-DNA37) and join Albanian Bloodlines group at YSEQ for results analysis (you should get a better Y-DNA classification than LivingDNA): https://www.yseq.net/product_info.ph...75fbabfd71ae40
    Y-DNA: J-L283
    Maternal Y-DNA: E-V13

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    Hey Trojet,

    Thanks for the info. I will have to now go read a bit more as I am sufficiently confused. I thought that LivingDna provides pylogenetic trees for both Ydna and Mtdna. I'm also confused now as to the differences/advantages between the YDNA111 vs YDNA37 and so on, etc. Also the price at first glance seems like way more.


    Anyways, thanks for the reply.

    (P.s I still dont have enough post points to post links to the images of the living Dna phylogenetic trees but at first glance from an amateur like myself they seem fairly detailed? Does ftdna /yseq give more detail then?)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    Hey Trojet,

    Thanks for the info. I will have to now go read a bit more as I am sufficiently confused. I thought that LivingDna provides pylogenetic trees for both Ydna and Mtdna. I'm also confused now as to the differences/advantages between the YDNA111 vs YDNA37 and so on, etc. Also the price at first glance seems like way more.


    Anyways, thanks for the reply.

    (P.s I still dont have enough post points to post links to the images of the living Dna phylogenetic trees but at first glance from an amateur like myself they seem fairly detailed? Does ftdna /yseq give more detail then?)
    Well, their "phylogenetic trees" can only be as good as the coverage of their SNP chip, which I'm sure it doesn't test for younger and more recently discovered SNPs. Trust me, I have been involved in this field for too long.

    For example, I will give you a phylogenetic tree of one of the major Albanian Y-DNA haplogroups: J2b2a1-L283. First of, we don't know which SNPs LivingDNA covers below L283, but I very much doubt it will test for some important SNPs below Z1296. Hypothetically, if you belong to this HG, and LivingDNA only tests to the Z628 level, you will not know where you belong dowsntream if you don't test elsewhere like FTDNA or YSEQ:



    With FTDNA or YSEQ Y-DNA37, often times we can determine a far more recent sub-branch than LivingDNA, 23andMe, Geno 2, based on your STRs. Furthermore, you will be matched to other people who belong to the same HG, which none of those companies provide.
    If you go for FTDNA, I suggest Y-DNA37. You don't have to go for higher markers, as they are used to refine matches and if you don't have any at the 37 level, higher markers like Y111 won't be that useful, but you can always upgrade later if wanted without sending additional sample. I know FTDNA is a bit more expensive, but trust me it's better.
    Again, if you don't care for Autosomal and just want your Y-DNA, I would go for YSEQ Alpha-Beta for $85 which is the same as FTDNA's Y-DNA37 (see my previous post).

    PS: Do you know if you belong to any tribe (fis)?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trojet View Post
    Do you know if you belong to any tribe?
    I'm a Kosovo Albanian. My tribe from my father side is Berisha as far as I know. My mothers tribe is Gashi. But the tribes in Kosovo are way more general and less specific I think as I have heard that people were able to join them in the same manner that people join political parties nowadays.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    I'm a Kosovo Albanian. My tribe from my father side is Berisha as far as I know. My mothers tribe is Gashi. But the tribes in Kosovo are way more general and less specific I think as I have heard that people were able to join them in the same manner that people join political parties nowadays.
    Interesting and thanks. We have many results from the Berisha tribe, and the vast majority are E1b-V13>>S2979>FGC33625, as you can see here. If you belong to the same cluster, we can determine this with only Y-DNA12 from FTDNA ;) If not in this HG, you will get the other you belong to.

    On the other hand, you will not be able to determine this if you tested at LivingDNA, 23andMe, or Geno 2, as they most definitely don't test below S2979 or Z5018, and you will simply be classified something like E1b-V13>Z5018>??? (if that) which is very general.

    You can obviously go for LivingDNA. To me it makes no difference. It's really up to you. I just wanted you to be aware what you can and can't get out of it in comparison to others, like FTDNA or YSEQ.

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    Ok, I am sure that this is just the beginning of a hobby and that I will eventually do all of these tests. Thanks for the help Trojet, nihemi.

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    Do Y12 + Family Finder.

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    Also does anybody know of famous albanians haplogroups? (Skenderbeg, Pope Clement XI, etc)

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    I agree with Fustan.
    I think the combo of FamilyFinder + Y-DNA12 is your best bet for your budget: https://www.familytreedna.com/group-...es&code=B11086

    If you belong to the Berisha E-V13 Cluster, Y-DNA12 will confirm it, as they have some distinctive STR values. Also, you can always upgrade later if wanted and no additional sample needed. On the other hand, you will never know if you're related to the Berisha Cluster if you test at LivingDNA, 23andMe, Geno 2, or AncestryDNA, since none of them test Y-STRs.

    As far as Autosomal goes, currently there is no perfect Autosomal DNA test. They each have their pluses and minuses. FTDNA's FamilyFinder is pretty decent though. Furthermore, you can upload your raw data to GEDMATCH, DNA.Land, etc, and experiment with different Autosomal calculators.
    Last edited by Trojet; 23-06-17 at 01:47.

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    I think I will end up going with this Y12 option since it seems more manageable right now. Later on I will invest more in a more comprehensive test. Do you know what the deal is with ordering kits into Kosovo? how is it managed etc?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    I think I will end up going with this Y12 option since it seems more manageable right now. Later on I will invest more in a more comprehensive test. Do you know what the deal is with ordering kits into Kosovo? how is it managed etc?
    Yes, FamilyTreeDNA will ship to Kosove or anywhere in the Balkans for that matter, for a flat rate of $12.95. They will ship the kit to your address within a couple of days after making the order. At which point they will send you an email with relevant information. You should receive the kit in about two weeks. After you receive it, there will be included instructions how to take the test. Afterwards, go to your post office and ship it to the provided address. After FTDNA receives your kit, results should be ready in about 3-6 weeks.
    Last edited by Trojet; 23-06-17 at 13:33.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    I'm a Kosovo Albanian. My tribe from my father side is Berisha as far as I know. My mothers tribe is Gashi. But the tribes in Kosovo are way more general and less specific I think as I have heard that people were able to join them in the same manner that people join political parties nowadays.
    From which area are you from, village/town, and do you happen to know which Berisha brotherhood your family belongs to? There are quite few in Kosova, the most numerous though are Doda, Alshiqe, Deskaj, Gec and Mertur (in some instances Kuq also).

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    I see you're one of those types, but whatever, I still don't want you to waste your money. Both companies are useless, and overpriced for what they are selling, especially livingDNA who has been proven time and time again to be inconsistent in their services and also results they provide.
    Last edited by Leka; 21-07-17 at 21:54.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    Also does anybody know of famous albanians haplogroups? (Skenderbeg, Pope Clement XI, etc)
    I wonder the same. Has this been answered elsewhere? Even a theoretical living descendant just to get an idea would be nice.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    When you say "tribes" do you possibly mean what we call "Fara- pl. Fares" in Greek regarding the Arvanites? Based on my autosomal testing and the K36 report by LM genetics plus our family history and regional history of our places of origin, I can assume that I have a rather big percentage of Arvanite admixture (being Greek). In fact, Albania and Kosovo seem to be very close to me genetically.
    I know from family history that my maternal grandfather came from the Souliot family Markou which belonged to the larger fara of Bocari. They had fled to our current village in Ioannina in the beg. of the 19th century it seems. My father who comes from Kephalonia and Kea also seems to have some proximity to Albanians and a considerable number of Albanian DNA relatives. I read that the Bua and Spata families had settled also in Kephalonia. In fact, he has a Shpati among his dna relatives. Also, I read that the Byzantines had placed a big number of Arvanites on Kea which had been almost deserted at some point. So my high proximity must come from a combination of elements from both of my parents.
    My two male cousins from my mother's side are the only ones who still carry the Y haplogroup of my grandfather...it would be interesting to know it...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alexandra_K View Post
    When you say "tribes" do you possibly mean what we call "Fara- pl. Fares" in Greek regarding the Arvanites? Based on my autosomal testing and the K36 report by LM genetics plus our family history and regional history of our places of origin, I can assume that I have a rather big percentage of Arvanite admixture (being Greek). In fact, Albania and Kosovo seem to be very close to me genetically.
    I know from family history that my maternal grandfather came from the Souliot family Markou which belonged to the larger fara of Bocari. They had fled to our current village in Ioannina in the beg. of the 19th century it seems. My father who comes from Kephalonia and Kea also seems to have some proximity to Albanians and a considerable number of Albanian DNA relatives. I read that the Bua and Spata families had settled also in Kephalonia. In fact, he has a Shpati among his dna relatives. Also, I read that the Byzantines had placed a big number of Arvanites on Kea which had been almost deserted at some point. So my high proximity must come from a combination of elements from both of my parents.
    My two male cousins from my mother's side are the only ones who still carry the Y haplogroup of my grandfather...it would be interesting to know it...
    Interesting. Thank you for sharing. What is the y-dna of your cousins from your mother's side?

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