Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Page 1 of 7 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 159

Thread: Iron Age and Early Medieval Polish DNA

  1. #1
    Elite member
    Join Date
    07-09-14
    Posts
    4,646

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b
    MtDNA haplogroup
    W6

    Ethnic group
    Polish
    Country: Poland



    2 members found this post helpful.

    Iron Age and Early Medieval Polish DNA

    Analysis of Iron Age and Early Medieval Polish genomes:

    http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...l=1#post252846

    PCA with two Iron Age and one Early Medieval samples:


  2. #2
    Regular Member Syky's Avatar
    Join Date
    16-07-16
    Location
    Prague/Northern Moravia
    Age
    28
    Posts
    68

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2a1b
    MtDNA haplogroup
    I2d

    Ethnic group
    WHG direct descendant :)
    Country: Czech Republic



    2 members found this post helpful.
    So the Wielbark culture was really Germanic, Swedish-like.

  3. #3
    Elite member
    Join Date
    07-09-14
    Posts
    4,646

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b
    MtDNA haplogroup
    W6

    Ethnic group
    Polish
    Country: Poland



    Quote Originally Posted by Syky View Post
    So the Wielbark culture was really Germanic, Swedish-like.
    Kow_25 looks Germano-Celtic. But Kow_55 seems more mixed (at least in other analyses, I'm not sure why this cannot be seen in PCA, probably because PCA is only two-dimensional):

    http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...l=1#post252881

    Kow_25 in MDLP K11 Oracle:

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 British_IronAge @ 7.434154
    2 Nordic_BA @ 9.274955
    3 British_Celtic @ 10.62579
    4 British_AngloSaxon @ 10.796147
    5 Bell_Beaker_Germany @ 11.44074
    6 Hungary_BA @ 11.495719
    7 Nordic_LBA @ 11.755705
    8 Alberstedt_LN @ 12.342703
    9 Halberstadt_LBA @ 12.429883
    10 Nordic_IA @ 12.46921

    http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...l=1#post252862

    Kow_55 in nMonte restricted:

    Welsh 44.80
    Ukrainian_West 41.45
    Pl_north 8.30
    (...)

  4. #4
    Elite member
    Join Date
    07-09-14
    Posts
    4,646

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b
    MtDNA haplogroup
    W6

    Ethnic group
    Polish
    Country: Poland



    Niem_34 (Early Medieval Poland) compared to RISE568 (Early Medieval Czechia):

    RISE569 (the other Early Medieval Czech) plots close to Polish Wielbark samples.

    http://i.imgur.com/r4mVqTN.png


  5. #5
    Regular Member Sile's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-09-11
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    5,117

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by Syky View Post
    So the Wielbark culture was really Germanic, Swedish-like.
    agree, if we think that gothic was only Germanic and swedish at that time or could it have some west-baltic element as well
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

  6. #6
    Elite member Fire Haired14's Avatar
    Join Date
    20-04-14
    Posts
    2,194

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b DF27*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U5b2a2b1

    Country: USA - Illinois



    Well that's annoying. I was told Weilbark was rich in Y DNA G2/I2 and was really similar to HungaryBA. I guess you can never trust leaks. Like the leak which said Baltic HGs were basically WHG only referred to Lithuanian HGs. All other Baltic HGs, including the ones with R1b, had a huge chunk of ANE/EHG.

  7. #7
    Advisor Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    18,982


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    Since the samples for which results have been posted were I1, I2, and G2a2, the "leak" would seem to have been accurate. These people were Germanic in ancestry, not Slavic.

    What the other samples will show we don't know.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

  8. #8
    Elite member
    Join Date
    07-09-14
    Posts
    4,646

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b
    MtDNA haplogroup
    W6

    Ethnic group
    Polish
    Country: Poland



    K36 nMonte with use of the following ancient samples gives me ~13% of Wielbark:

    IA = Iron Age
    BA = Bronze Age
    MA = Middle Ages

    [1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCES"
    IA_Wielbark_Kow55 IA_Sweden_RISE174 IA_Hungary_IR1
    21.94205 24.22627 25.08156
    IA_Gladiator_6DRIF22 MA_Slavic_RISE568 MA_Slavic_Niem34
    26.65775 27.15263 29.48630
    IA_Scythian_I0247 IA_British_6DRIF18
    30.46349 30.81313

    Tomenable

    IA_Hungary_IR1 31.50
    BA_Sudovia_RISE598 29.55
    MA_Slavic_Niem34 13.80
    IA_Wielbark_Kow55 13.15
    IA_Gladiator_6DRIF22 6.20
    MA_Slavic_RISE568 5.10
    BA_Armenia_RISE412 0.65
    HG_Ethiopia_Mota 0.05
    IA_Sarmatian_I0575 0.00
    IA_Gladiator_3DRIF26 0.00
    IA_British_6DRIF18 0.00
    IA_British_6DRIF23 0.00
    IA_CelticBriton_HI1 0.00
    IA_CelticBriton_HI4 0.00
    IA_Wielbark_Kow25 0.00
    IA_Wielbark_Mas5 0.00
    MA_AngloSaxon_HS3 0.00
    HG_Australia_Abo 0.00
    BA_Armenia_RISE397 0.00
    IA_Scythian_I0247 0.00
    IA_Sweden_RISE174 0.00
    MA_Iran_I1955 0.00

    When I include more of Bronze Age European samples, my Wielbark share drops to ~6%, but the problem here is that we are mixing Bronze Age "ancestors" with their Iron Age "descendants" in the same comparison:

    [1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCES"
    BA_Cuiavia_PLN17 BA_Hungary_BR1 IA_Wielbark_Kow55
    16.19202 17.58834 21.94205
    BA_Denmark_RISE276 BA_Hungary_BR2 BA_EastGermany_I0116
    21.99232 23.60180 23.68750
    IA_Sweden_RISE174 IA_Hungary_IR1
    24.22627 25.08156

    Tomenable

    BA_Sudovia_RISE598 22.10
    BA_Hungary_BR2 21.00
    IA_Hungary_IR1 19.20
    BA_Cuiavia_PLN17 11.15
    MA_Slavic_RISE568 11.00
    MA_Slavic_Niem34 10.00
    IA_Wielbark_Kow55 5.55

    IA_Sarmatian_I0575 0.00
    IA_Gladiator_3DRIF26 0.00
    IA_British_6DRIF18 0.00
    IA_British_6DRIF23 0.00
    IA_Gladiator_6DRIF22 0.00
    IA_CelticBriton_HI1 0.00
    IA_CelticBriton_HI4 0.00
    IA_Wielbark_Kow25 0.00
    IA_Wielbark_Mas5 0.00
    MA_AngloSaxon_HS3 0.00
    HG_Ethiopia_Mota 0.00
    HG_Australia_Abo 0.00
    BB_Czechia_RISE566 0.00
    BA_Silesia_RISE150 0.00
    BA_Silesia_RISE154 0.00
    BA_Czechia_RISE577 0.00
    BA_Czechia_RISE586 0.00
    BA_EastGermany_I0803 0.00
    BA_EastGermany_I0099 0.00
    BA_EastGermany_I0047 0.00
    BA_EastGermany_I0116 0.00
    BA_EastGermany_I0164 0.00
    BA_Hungary_BR1 0.00
    BA_Hungary_RISE373 0.00
    BA_Hungary_RISE374 0.00
    BA_Denmark_RISE276 0.00
    BA_Armenia_RISE397 0.00
    BA_Armenia_RISE412 0.00
    IA_Scythian_I0247 0.00
    IA_Sweden_RISE174 0.00
    MA_Iran_I1955 0.00

    ========================

    BR2 is a curious case because it always shows up for Poles in nMonte runs (as long as it is included in these runs). The original study also showed that it has the highest genetic affinity with modern Poles:

    http://www.pnas.org/content/113/2/368.full



    But a BR2-like population does not explain the majority of ancestry of modern Poles.

    Only something between less than 1/5 and ca. 1/3 (depending on region of Poland).

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    04-01-12
    Posts
    125


    Country: Poland



    Quote Originally Posted by Syky View Post
    So the Wielbark culture was really Germanic, Swedish-like.
    Not exactly, these are samples taken from inhumation found surrounded by wielbark stuff. Due to custom of cremation of dead among Wilebark people these are unusual cases, but the easiest to be sampled. Probably they have been immigrants.

  10. #10
    Elite member Fire Haired14's Avatar
    Join Date
    20-04-14
    Posts
    2,194

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b DF27*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U5b2a2b1

    Country: USA - Illinois



    The Wielbark I1 is I1a3-Z63, the I1 clade Maciamo calls continental. A Serbian member here belongs to it.

    @Tomenable,

    How many SNPs do the Weilbark and Medival genomes have? If they have only like 2,000 we can't be too confident about their results. Can you run them through Dodecade K12b so we can get an idea what their EEF, WHG, Steppe numbers are?

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    04-01-12
    Posts
    125


    Country: Poland



    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired14 View Post
    The Wielbark I1 is I1a3-Z63, the I1 clade Maciamo calls continental. A Serbian member here belongs to it.
    Actually it is I1a2a1a1d1a1a1b1 which according to yfull.com is found in Sweden only.

  12. #12
    Satyavrata Maciamo's Avatar
    Join Date
    17-07-02
    Location
    Lothier
    Posts
    9,364


    Ethnic group
    Italo-celto-germanic
    Country: Belgium - Brussels



    Quote Originally Posted by matbir View Post
    Actually it is I1a2a1a1d1a1a1b1 which according to yfull.com is found in Sweden only.
    Yfull only lists the countries for one or a few samples for each clade. It is not representative of where the clades are found, which is why I created my own (hopefully more legible) phylogenetic trees where I added as many countries as possible for each clade. For I1 clades I have made the depth of the tree to represent a chronological timeline, so that people have a better idea of when a mutation appeared and how long it took for the next mutation to develop. Branches with lots of successive mutations represent larger populations (i.e. fast expanding lineages, often linked with ruling classes in the case of ancient paternal lineages).

    Here is the tree for I1-Z63




    However, if that sample belongs to I1a2a1a1d1a1a1b1 and it uses the ISOGG nomenclature, it is I1-S14669 downstream of Z60, Z73, L1302 and Y5448. That would be a Scandinavian lineage that expanded during the Late Iron Age, and therefore could be Gothic, Vandal or a closely related tribe.

    My book selection---Follow me on Facebook and Twitter --- My profile on Academia.edu and on ResearchGate ----Check Wa-pedia's Japan Guide
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "What is the use of living, if it be not to strive for noble causes and to make this muddled world a better place for those who will live in it after we are gone?", Winston Churchill.

  13. #13
    Elite member
    Join Date
    07-09-14
    Posts
    4,646

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b
    MtDNA haplogroup
    W6

    Ethnic group
    Polish
    Country: Poland



    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired14 View Post
    @Tomenable,

    How many SNPs do the Weilbark and Medival genomes have? If they have only like 2,000 we can't be too confident about their results.
    Yeah they don't have many SNPs. These are only "screening results", they were published as part of a study on microbes associated with ancient human DNA. So they are not final results, we still need to wait for the actual study.

    I think they have only 2000 ancestry-informative markers (according to Vadim Verenich).

  14. #14
    Elite member
    Join Date
    07-09-14
    Posts
    4,646

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b
    MtDNA haplogroup
    W6

    Ethnic group
    Polish
    Country: Poland



    Kowalewko_45 looks autosomally "Eastern" (similar to modern Western Ukrainians and Northern Poles):

    http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...l=1#post253369

    So we have autosomally Germano-Celtic and Balto-Slavo-Iranic results in the same cemetery / settlement.

    One sample also looks like a 50/50 mix of those two groups.

    ==============

    Some images from Kowalewko cemetery:

    http://www.muzarp.poznan.pl/zewnetrz...kowalewko.html

  15. #15
    Regular Member Lukas's Avatar
    Join Date
    23-04-17
    Posts
    286


    Country: Poland



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    Yeah they don't have many SNPs. These are only "screening results", they were published as part of a study on microbes associated with ancient human DNA. So they are not final results, we still need to wait for the actual study.

    I think they have only 2000 ancestry-informative markers (according to Vadim Verenich).
    Bullshit. In Gedmatch those genomes have about 15 000 SNP. And Markowice_7 even 26 0000 SNP...

  16. #16
    Elite member
    Join Date
    07-09-14
    Posts
    4,646

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b
    MtDNA haplogroup
    W6

    Ethnic group
    Polish
    Country: Poland



    My K36 nMonte after adding Mar7:

    1) With Bronze Age samples:

    BA_Cuiavia_PLN17 22.05
    LBA_Sudovia_RISE598 16.50
    BA_Hungary_BR2 12.45
    MA_Slavic_Niem34 10.75
    IA_Wielbark_Kow55 10.30
    MA_Slavic_Mar7 10.00
    IA_Hungary_IR1 8.15
    MA_Slavic_RISE568 8.05
    BA_Hungary_RISE374 1.40
    IA_Wielbark_Mas5 0.35

    IA_Sarmatian_I0575 0.00
    IA_Gladiator_3DRIF26 0.00
    IA_British_6DRIF18 0.00
    IA_British_6DRIF23 0.00
    IA_Gladiator_6DRIF22 0.00
    IA_CelticBriton_HI1 0.00
    IA_CelticBriton_HI4 0.00
    IA_Wielbark_Kow25 0.00
    IA_Wielbark_Kow22 0.00
    IA_Wielbark_Kow45 0.00
    MA_AngloSaxon_HS3 0.00
    HG_Ethiopia_Mota 0.00
    HG_Australia_Abo 0.00
    BB_Czechia_RISE566 0.00
    BA_Silesia_RISE150 0.00
    BA_Silesia_RISE154 0.00
    BA_Czechia_RISE577 0.00
    BA_Czechia_RISE586 0.00
    BA_EastGermany_I0803 0.00
    BA_EastGermany_I0099 0.00
    BA_EastGermany_I0047 0.00
    BA_EastGermany_I0116 0.00
    BA_EastGermany_I0164 0.00
    BA_Hungary_BR1 0.00
    BA_Hungary_RISE373 0.00
    BA_Denmark_RISE276 0.00
    BA_Armenia_RISE397 0.00
    BA_Armenia_RISE412 0.00
    IA_Scythian_I0247 0.00
    IA_Sweden_RISE174 0.00
    MA_Iran_I1955 0.00

    2) Without Bronze Age samples:

    LBA_Sudovia_RISE598 26.35
    IA_Hungary_IR1 23.55
    IA_Wielbark_Kow55 19.65
    MA_Slavic_Niem34 14.95
    MA_Slavic_Mar7 11.65
    IA_Gladiator_6DRIF22 2.00
    IA_Wielbark_Mas5 1.85

    IA_Sarmatian_I0575 0.00
    IA_Gladiator_3DRIF26 0.00
    IA_British_6DRIF18 0.00
    IA_British_6DRIF23 0.00
    IA_CelticBriton_HI1 0.00
    IA_CelticBriton_HI4 0.00
    IA_Wielbark_Kow25 0.00
    IA_Wielbark_Kow45 0.00
    IA_Wielbark_Kow22 0.00
    MA_AngloSaxon_HS3 0.00
    HG_Ethiopia_Mota 0.00
    HG_Australia_Abo 0.00
    BA_Armenia_RISE397 0.00
    BA_Armenia_RISE412 0.00
    IA_Scythian_I0247 0.00
    IA_Sweden_RISE174 0.00
    MA_Iran_I1955 0.00
    MA_Slavic_RISE568 0.00

    Maybe I will add some Iberian samples.

  17. #17
    Elite member
    Join Date
    07-09-14
    Posts
    4,646

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b
    MtDNA haplogroup
    W6

    Ethnic group
    Polish
    Country: Poland



    RISE598 (Late Bronze Age Sudovia) is dated to 908-585 BC.

    Here is the cultural situation in Eastern Europe at that time:

    https://s14.postimg.org/i4ymfgafl/Ea...und_750_BC.png


  18. #18
    Advisor LeBrok's Avatar
    Join Date
    18-11-09
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    10,296

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b Z2109
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1c

    Ethnic group
    Citizen of the world
    Country: Canada-Alberta



    Wielbark Culture was always suspected to belong to Goths, on their way to Black Sea.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wielbark_culture

    However it was said by archeologists that Wielbark contained two separate ethnicities living side by side.  It makes sense as Goths didn't have time to mix with local population on their fast pace to the Black Sea.  IIRC, they marched from Baltic to Black Sea in about 150 years.  I wonder who was the second ethnicity of Wielbark Culture.  Germanic, Baltic or Slavic?
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

  19. #19
    Advisor LeBrok's Avatar
    Join Date
    18-11-09
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    10,296

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b Z2109
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1c

    Ethnic group
    Citizen of the world
    Country: Canada-Alberta



    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    K36 nMonte with use of the following ancient samples gives me ~13% of Wielbark:




    ========================

    BR2 is a curious case because it always shows up for Poles in nMonte runs (as long as it is included in these runs). The original study also showed that it has the highest genetic affinity with modern Poles:

    http://www.pnas.org/content/113/2/368.full



    But a BR2-like population does not explain the majority of ancestry of modern Poles.

    Only something between less than 1/5 and ca. 1/3 (depending on region of Poland).
    It has to be more. I'm achieving the best modeled modern polish genome when using 70% BR2 and 30% Samara HG. I'm not saying this is exactly what happened, but it means major role of Hungarian Bronze, or Hungarian Bronze like population, in polish genome.

  20. #20
    Advisor LeBrok's Avatar
    Join Date
    18-11-09
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    10,296

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b Z2109
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1c

    Ethnic group
    Citizen of the world
    Country: Canada-Alberta



    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    Niem_34 (Early Medieval Poland) compared to RISE568 (Early Medieval Czechia):

    RISE569 (the other Early Medieval Czech) plots close to Polish Wielbark samples.

    http://i.imgur.com/r4mVqTN.png

    I could see from admixtures that the Chechia sample looked slavic, close to my genome. Interesting is that these two samples are shifted more "east" on this chart than modern Slavs. Do you know who plots "South-East" from them? Hungarians, Bulgarians, BR2, or nobody? Looks like modern Slavs mixed with Central Asians and Germans and got shifted "west" on this chart.

  21. #21
    Regular Member Lukas's Avatar
    Join Date
    23-04-17
    Posts
    286


    Country: Poland



    Mar_7. At least first Slav without much doubts here.

    WestMed frequency probably biased. But it doesn't change results much.

    K36

    Amerindian -
    Arabian -
    Armenian -
    Basque -
    Central_African -
    Central_Euro 3.00
    East_African -
    East_Asian -
    East_Balkan -
    East_Central_Asian -
    East_Central_Euro 23.43
    East_Med -
    Eastern_Euro 31.46
    Fennoscandian 0.06

    French 18.70
    Iberian -
    Indo-Chinese -
    Italian 14.66
    Malayan -
    Near_Eastern -
    North_African -
    North_Atlantic -
    North_Caucasian -
    North_Sea -
    Northeast_African -
    Oceanian -
    Omotic -
    Pygmy 0.27
    Siberian -
    South_Asian -
    South_Central_Asian -
    South_Chinese -
    Volga-Ural -
    West_African -
    West_Caucasian -
    West_Med 8.38


    oracle-spreadsheet

    First 20 Populations distance
    1 Ukrainian_North_East 80,70
    2 Ukrainian_Central 85,77
    3 Ukrainian_Poltava 87,88
    4 Slovak 89,92
    5 Russian_Kursk 91,59
    6 PL_South_Poland 96,22
    7 PL_Upper_Silesia 96,22
    8 Russian_Oryol 96,53
    9 Russian_Center 97,34
    10 Carpathian_Rusyns 97,39
    11 Ukrainian_West 97,68
    12 PL_average 98,66
    13 Russian_Smolensk 99,14
    14 Ukrainian_Chernigov 100,77
    15 PL_Mazovia 101,02


    nMonte

    restricted
    Ukrainian_North_East 87
    IT_Sardinia 13
    Russian_Kursk 0
    Ukrainian_Central 0
    Moksha 0
    Russian_Pskov 0

    full
    Ukrainian_North_East 60.85
    IT_Sardinia 13.95
    Moksha 11.40
    Russian_Kursk 6.20
    Ukrainian_Central 4.90
    Russian_Pskov 1.05
    Ukrainian_Poltava 0.75
    Bulgaria 0.25
    Erzya 0.25
    Serbian 0.15
    Russian_Center 0.10
    Russian_Smolensk 0.10
    Slovak 0.05

    [1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCES"
    Ukrainian_North_East Ukrainian_Central Ukrainian_Poltava
    28.40781 29.28682 29.64486
    Slovak Russian_Kursk PL_South_Poland
    29.98624 30.26425 31.01948
    PL_Upper_Silesia Russian_Oryol
    31.01975 31.07004

    Admix4

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Ukrainian_North_East @ 28,459469
    2 Ukrainian_Central @ 29,339293
    3 Ukrainian_Poltava @ 29,697336
    4 Slovak @ 30,038609
    5 Russian_Kursk @ 30,319436
    6 PL_South_Poland @ 31,071054
    7 PL_Upper_Silesia @ 31,072267
    8 Russian_Oryol @ 31,124764
    9 Russian_Center @ 31,254703
    10 Carpathian_Rusyns @ 31,257305
    11 Ukrainian_West @ 31,309697
    12 PL_average @ 31,462178
    13 Russian_Smolensk @ 31,538691
    14 Ukrainian_Chernigov @ 31,797107
    15 PL_Mazovia @ 31,833941
    16 Moksha @ 32,031611
    17 Moldavian @ 32,036561
    18 Belarusian_East @ 32,080014
    19 Russian_Tambov @ 32,112993
    20 Russian_Ryazan_Tula @ 32,343811
    336 iterations.

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 Ukrainian_North_East+Ukrainian_North_East @ 28,459469
    2 Ukrainian_Central+Ukrainian_North_East @ 28,841808
    3 Slovak+Ukrainian_North_East @ 28,917943
    4 Ukrainian_North_East+Ukrainian_Poltava @ 28,965726
    5 Russian_Kursk+Ukrainian_North_East @ 29,250329
    6 Serbian+Ukrainian_North_East @ 29,321054
    7 Ukrainian_Central+Ukrainian_Central @ 29,339293
    8 Moksha+Ukrainian_North_East @ 29,448796
    9 Carpathian_Rusyns+Ukrainian_North_East @ 29,466548
    10 Ukrainian_Central+Ukrainian_Poltava @ 29,486067
    11 Croatian+Ukrainian_North_East @ 29,500402
    12 Slovak+Ukrainian_Central @ 29,511642
    13 PL_Upper_Silesia+Ukrainian_North_East @ 29,517055
    14 PL_South_Poland+Ukrainian_North_East @ 29,524795
    15 West_Serbian+Ukrainian_North_East @ 29,560489
    16 Slovak+Russian_Kursk @ 29,626743
    17 Ukrainian_West+Ukrainian_North_East @ 29,632265
    18 Moldavian+Ukrainian_North_East @ 29,635172
    19 Serbian+Russian_Pskov @ 29,656256
    20 Romania_SE+Ukrainian_North_East @ 29,679025
    56616 iterations.

    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% Ukrainian_North_East +25% Bulgaria +25% Ukrainian_North_East @ 28,28299
    2 50% Ukrainian_North_East +25% IT_Sardinia +25% Ukrainian_North_East @ 28,313821
    3 50% Ukrainian_North_East +25% Serbian +25% Ukrainian_North_East @ 28,332145
    4 50% Ukrainian_North_East +25% IT_Sardinia +25% Russian_Pskov @ 28,398127
    5 50% Ukrainian_North_East +25% South_Romania +25% Ukrainian_North_East @ 28,398844
    6 50% Ukrainian_North_East +25% Albania_Montenegro +25% Ukrainian_North_East @ 28,421643
    7 50% Ukrainian_North_East +25% Montenegro +25% Ukrainian_North_East @ 28,42956
    8 50% Ukrainian_North_East +25% IT_Sardinia +25% Russian_Kursk @ 28,465179
    9 50% Ukrainian_North_East +25% Romania_SE +25% Ukrainian_North_East @ 28,475643
    10 50% Ukrainian_North_East +25% Bosnian +25% Ukrainian_North_East @ 28,475938
    11 50% Ukrainian_North_East +25% Macedonia_FYROM +25% Ukrainian_North_East @ 28,501689
    12 50% Ukrainian_North_East +25% IT_Sardinia +25% Moksha @ 28,518899
    13 50% Ukrainian_North_East +25% Gr_Eubea +25% Ukrainian_North_East @ 28,533272
    14 50% Ukrainian_North_East +25% West_Serbian +25% Ukrainian_North_East @ 28,547913
    15 50% Ukrainian_North_East +25% Bulgaria +25% Russian_Kursk @ 28,565801
    16 50% Ukrainian_North_East +25% Swiss_Italian +25% Ukrainian_North_East @ 28,566788
    17 50% Ukrainian_North_East +25% Bulgaria +25% Moksha @ 28,569706
    18 50% Ukrainian_North_East +25% Serbian +25% Moksha @ 28,578856
    19 50% Ukrainian_North_East +25% Kosovo +25% Ukrainian_North_East @ 28,59089
    20 50% Ukrainian_North_East +25% Slovak +25% Ukrainian_North_East @ 28,602864
    18966360 iterations.

    Using 4 populations approximation:
    1 Bulgaria+Ukrainian_North_East+Ukrainian_North_East +Ukrainian_North_East @ 28,28299
    2 IT_Sardinia+Ukrainian_North_East+Ukrainian_North_E ast+Ukrainian_North_East @ 28,313821
    3 Serbian+Ukrainian_North_East+Ukrainian_North_East+ Ukrainian_North_East @ 28,332145
    4 IT_Sardinia+Russian_Pskov+Ukrainian_North_East+Ukr ainian_North_East @ 28,398127
    5 South_Romania+Ukrainian_North_East+Ukrainian_North _East+Ukrainian_North_East @ 28,398844
    6 Albania_Montenegro+Ukrainian_North_East+Ukrainian_ North_East+Ukrainian_North_East @ 28,421643
    7 Montenegro+Ukrainian_North_East+Ukrainian_North_Ea st+Ukrainian_North_East @ 28,42956
    8 Ukrainian_North_East+Ukrainian_North_East+Ukrainia n_North_East+Ukrainian_North_East @ 28,459469
    9 IT_Sardinia+Russian_Kursk+Ukrainian_North_East+Ukr ainian_North_East @ 28,465179
    10 Romania_SE+Ukrainian_North_East+Ukrainian_North_Ea st+Ukrainian_North_East @ 28,475643
    11 Bosnian+Ukrainian_North_East+Ukrainian_North_East+ Ukrainian_North_East @ 28,475938
    12 Macedonia_FYROM+Ukrainian_North_East+Ukrainian_Nor th_East+Ukrainian_North_East @ 28,501689
    13 IT_Sardinia+Moksha+Ukrainian_North_East+Ukrainian_ North_East @ 28,518899
    14 Gr_Eubea+Ukrainian_North_East+Ukrainian_North_East +Ukrainian_North_East @ 28,533272
    15 West_Serbian+Ukrainian_North_East+Ukrainian_North_ East+Ukrainian_North_East @ 28,547913
    16 Bulgaria+Russian_Kursk+Ukrainian_North_East+Ukrain ian_North_East @ 28,565801
    17 Swiss_Italian+Ukrainian_North_East+Ukrainian_North _East+Ukrainian_North_East @ 28,566788
    18 Bulgaria+Moksha+Ukrainian_North_East+Ukrainian_Nor th_East @ 28,569706
    19 Serbian+Moksha+Ukrainian_North_East+Ukrainian_Nort h_East @ 28,578856
    20 Kosovo+Ukrainian_North_East+Ukrainian_North_East+U krainian_North_East @ 28,59089
    21 Slovak+Ukrainian_North_East+Ukrainian_North_East+U krainian_North_East @ 28,602864
    22 Bulgaria+Ukrainian_Central+Ukrainian_North_East+Uk rainian_North_East @ 28,610697
    23 Serbian+Russian_Kursk+Ukrainian_North_East+Ukraini an_North_East @ 28,623485
    24 Croatian+Ukrainian_North_East+Ukrainian_North_East +Ukrainian_North_East @ 28,627597
    25 IT_Sardinia+Russian_Kursk+Russian_Pskov+Ukrainian_ North_East @ 28,629755
    26 Bulgaria+Russian_Pskov+Ukrainian_North_East+Ukrain ian_North_East @ 28,631981
    27 Ukrainian_Central+Ukrainian_North_East+Ukrainian_N orth_East+Ukrainian_North_East @ 28,635925
    28 Serbian+Ukrainian_Central+Ukrainian_North_East+Ukr ainian_North_East @ 28,641482
    29 IT_Sardinia+Moksha+Russian_Pskov+Ukrainian_North_E ast @ 28,650999
    30 IT_Sardinia+Latvian+Ukrainian_North_East+Ukrainian _North_East @ 28,655533
    31 Albania_Montenegro+Moksha+Ukrainian_North_East+Ukr ainian_North_East @ 28,656925
    32 IT_Tuscany+Ukrainian_North_East+Ukrainian_North_Ea st+Ukrainian_North_East @ 28,65738
    33 Albania_Montenegro+Russian_Kursk+Ukrainian_North_E ast+Ukrainian_North_East @ 28,662756
    34 Moksha+Montenegro+Ukrainian_North_East+Ukrainian_N orth_East @ 28,682945
    35 Ukrainian_North_East+Ukrainian_North_East+Ukrainia n_North_East+Ukrainian_Poltava @ 28,683558
    36 IT_Sardinia+Ukrainian_Central+Ukrainian_North_East +Ukrainian_North_East @ 28,686871
    37 Albania_Montenegro+Russian_Pskov+Ukrainian_North_E ast+Ukrainian_North_East @ 28,687653
    38 Bulgaria+Ukrainian_North_East+Ukrainian_North_East +Ukrainian_Poltava @ 28,688643
    39 IT_Sardinia+Russian_Pskov+Russian_Pskov+Ukrainian_ North_East @ 28,694406
    40 IT_Sardinia+Russian_Kursk+Russian_Kursk+Ukrainian_ North_East @ 28,694457
    540597876 iterations.


    Gaussian method.
    Noise dispersion set to 0,130062

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Slovak @ 6,725254
    2 Austria @ 6,858821
    3 Czechs_Moravians @ 6,938283
    4 Slovenian @ 7,019197
    5 Ukrainian_West @ 7,085939
    6 Croatian @ 7,155005
    7 PL_Upper_Silesia @ 7,249587
    8 Carpathian_Rusyns @ 7,262995
    9 German_East @ 7,276328
    10 Hungary @ 7,381625
    11 West_Serbian @ 7,386223
    12 Romania_NW @ 7,420296
    13 Serbian @ 7,420402
    14 Montenegro @ 7,531517
    15 Bosnian @ 7,538772
    16 PL_South_Poland @ 7,683759
    17 Romania_SE @ 7,777678
    18 PL_SE_Carpathia @ 7,883126
    19 Macedonia_FYROM @ 7,895253
    20 South_Romania @ 8,016415
    336 iterations.

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 Swiss_Italian+Russian_Pskov @ 6,247863
    2 France_Central+Russian_Pskov @ 6,314634
    3 Swiss_Italian+Latvian @ 6,319281
    4 France_Central+Latvian @ 6,370342
    5 Swiss_Italian+Ukrainian_North_East @ 6,435817
    6 Swiss_Italian+Russian_Kursk @ 6,466648
    7 France_Central+Ukrainian_North_East @ 6,486163
    8 Spain_Baleares+Russian_Pskov @ 6,494815
    9 Austria_Tyrol+Russian_Pskov @ 6,498486
    10 Swiss_Italian+PL_Mazovia @ 6,498604
    11 France+Russian_Pskov @ 6,507121
    12 Swiss_Italian+Russian_Smolensk @ 6,513487
    13 France_South+Russian_Pskov @ 6,520684
    14 France_Central+Russian_Kursk @ 6,559061
    15 Swiss_Italian+Russian_Center @ 6,561592
    16 Swiss_Italian+Lithuanian @ 6,564071
    17 France_Central+Russian_Smolensk @ 6,565838
    18 Austria_Tyrol+Latvian @ 6,583971
    19 Spain_Valencia+Russian_Pskov @ 6,584093
    20 Swiss_Italian+Russian_Ryazan_Tula @ 6,584781
    56616 iterations.

    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% Swiss_Italian +25% Russian_Pskov +25% Russian_Pskov @ 6,247863
    2 50% Swiss_Italian +25% Latvian +25% Russian_Pskov @ 6,276589
    3 50% Russian_Pskov +25% Swiss_Italian +25% Russian_Pskov @ 6,277087
    4 50% Russian_Pskov +25% Swiss_Italian +25% PL_Upper_Silesia @ 6,284221
    5 50% Russian_Pskov +25% Swiss_Italian +25% Austria @ 6,288985
    6 50% Russian_Pskov +25% Swiss_Italian +25% Slovak @ 6,295705
    7 50% Russian_Pskov +25% Swiss_Italian +25% Ukrainian_Poltava @ 6,30173
    8 50% Russian_Pskov +25% Swiss_Italian +25% Ukrainian_North_East @ 6,302908
    9 50% Russian_Pskov +25% Swiss_Italian +25% PL_Mazovia @ 6,307407
    10 50% Russian_Pskov +25% IT_Sardinia +25% SE_England @ 6,310865
    11 50% Russian_Pskov +25% IT_Sardinia +25% England_Cumberland @ 6,310865
    12 50% France_Central +25% Russian_Pskov +25% Russian_Pskov @ 6,314634
    13 50% Ukrainian_North_East +25% Swiss_Italian +25% Russian_Pskov @ 6,318722
    14 50% Swiss_Italian +25% Latvian +25% Latvian @ 6,319281
    15 50% Russian_Pskov +25% Swiss_Italian +25% France_Central @ 6,320374
    16 50% PL_Upper_Silesia +25% Swiss_Italian +25% Russian_Pskov @ 6,328505
    17 50% Russian_Pskov +25% Swiss_Italian +25% Ukrainian_West @ 6,328816
    18 50% France_Central +25% Latvian +25% Russian_Pskov @ 6,336579
    19 50% Russian_Pskov +25% Swiss_Italian +25% PL_average @ 6,337722
    20 50% Russian_Pskov +25% Swis

  22. #22
    Regular Member Lukas's Avatar
    Join Date
    23-04-17
    Posts
    286


    Country: Poland



    1 members found this post helpful.
    mtDNA

    Kowalewko_55 U5b2a1a
    Kowalewko_49 U3
    Kowalewko_23 U3a
    Kowalewko_57 U4
    Kowalewko_45 H1e1a
    Kowalewko_28 H5a
    Kowalewko_22 H1a
    Kowalewko_26 K
    Kowalewko_29 K
    Kowalewko_51 T2b6


    Maslomecz_5 H16


    Niemcza_34 HV0a
    Niemcza_13 J1c3e1 lub J1b1a1
    Niemcza_18 L3
    Niemcza_19 K2c
    Niemcza_32 T2


    Markowice_7 Haplogroup J1c

  23. #23
    Regular Member Lukas's Avatar
    Join Date
    23-04-17
    Posts
    286


    Country: Poland



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Ok I'm not specialist. I only checked Eupedia...

    K - s particularly common in Northwest Europe

    H16: found primarily in Germanic countries and Poland, but also in India / found in the Neolithic Rössen culutre in Germany
    H5a: found in the Cucuteni-Trypillian culture
    H1e: found throughout Europe, including among the Basques, and in Iran (Qashqai) / found in Neolithic Germany
    H1a: found throughout Europe

    HV0 - The highest percentages of haplogroup HV in Europe are observed in Calabria (10%), Sicily (5%), Tuscany (5%), Sardinia (4.5%), Bulgaria (4%), southern Belarus (4%), Croatia (3.5%), Ukraine (3.5%), Iceland (3.5%), Greece (3%), Cyprus (2.5%), and Romania (2.5%).

    U5b2a: found in Epipaleolithic France and Neolithic Germany
    U3 - rare in Europe, primarily a Near Eastern and Caucasian lineage
    U4 - Generally speaking, U4 is more common in Baltic and Slavic countries and around the Caucasus than anywhere else.

    T2- Haplogroup T2 peaks among the Udmurts (24%) and the Chechen-Ingush of Daghestan (12.5%). After that T2 is most frequently encountered in the Netherlands (12%), Sardinia (10%), Iceland (10%), Switzerland (9.5%), Hungary (8.5%) and Ukraine (8.5%), as well as among many ethnic groups around the Caucasus such as the Kumyks (10%), Azeri (9.5%) and Georgians (9%).
    T2b - found at high frequencies throughout Europe (especially around the Alps) and at lower frequencies in North Asia, Central Asia and the Middle East

    J1c3e : found in central and north-eastern Europe
    J1b1a1 : found in western Europe

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    18-04-14
    Posts
    697


    Country: Poland



    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Goths didn't have time to mix with local population on their fast pace to the Black Sea.  IIRC, they marched from Baltic to Black Sea in about 150 years.
    Very fast... you just get the proof that you have no idea about time.
    Nothing strange, that you, and people similar to you couldn't understand
    how much it is hundreds of thousands or millions of years, becasue you
    all do not understand even how much it is 150 years.

  25. #25
    Advisor LeBrok's Avatar
    Join Date
    18-11-09
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    10,296

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b Z2109
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1c

    Ethnic group
    Citizen of the world
    Country: Canada-Alberta



    Quote Originally Posted by matbir View Post
    Not exactly, these are samples taken from inhumation found surrounded by wielbark stuff. Due to custom of cremation of dead among Wilebark people these are unusual cases, but the easiest to be sampled. Probably they have been immigrants.
    If this sample was buried, instead of cremated as local people did, and plotting with northern Germanics, it should mean that it was from migrating population of Goths.

Page 1 of 7 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •