Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Page 3 of 7 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 51 to 75 of 159

Thread: Iron Age and Early Medieval Polish DNA

  1. #51
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Three Friends1 year registered5000 Experience Points
    mlukas's Avatar
    Join Date
    23-04-17
    Posts
    251
    Points
    7,461
    Level
    25
    Points: 7,461, Level: 25
    Level completed: 83%, Points required for next Level: 89
    Overall activity: 36.0%


    Country: Poland



    Delete above maps with Niemcza (because there are two same towns). Officialy this is legit:)

    link to PDF


  2. #52
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    25-10-11
    Location
    Brittany
    Age
    70
    Posts
    4,469
    Points
    42,801
    Level
    63
    Points: 42,801, Level: 63
    Level completed: 89%, Points required for next Level: 149
    Overall activity: 7.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b - L21/S145*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H3c

    Ethnic group
    more celtic
    Country: France



    Quote Originally Posted by Rethel View Post
    But modern etymology can be, and mostly
    is misguiding, if the word has ancient origin.

    I'm not a two weeks old rabbit, please - 'Combrog' is based on solid ground and modern 'Cymru' (breton 'Kembre') is for the land, the other form, for the people, 'Cymro' is selfspeaking - by the way a Gaulish celtic tribe was named 'Combrog(es)' "compatriotes"-
    -
    serious etymology is a science, and based upon chains of attested old forms so "modern etymology" is not so modern! - reconstructions are based upon statistical evolutions and corpus of forms tending to converge as we go back in time with older ones (so sometimes unsure, spite guessed by scientists), and guesses and bets by forumers or sellers of pseudo-scientific bestsellers based upon only some hazardous ressemblances is another thing and I agree I red some beautiful pieces of this last sort in fora (here and elsewhere) -

  3. #53
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    25-10-11
    Location
    Brittany
    Age
    70
    Posts
    4,469
    Points
    42,801
    Level
    63
    Points: 42,801, Level: 63
    Level completed: 89%, Points required for next Level: 149
    Overall activity: 7.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b - L21/S145*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H3c

    Ethnic group
    more celtic
    Country: France



    Quote Originally Posted by mlukas View Post
    I can agree that some IE ethnonyms were strangely popular and occured far away from each other.

    Let's see:

    1. Cimmerians from south Ukraine (Krym maybe after them), Cimbrians from Jutland, Sicambri (mythological Frankish ancestors), Cymru (Wales). Maybe biblical Gomer. Gimri in modern Georgian means hero.
    I have read (forgot where) about theory that Cimmerians were pushed byt invading Scythians to Central Europe and carried Iron technology into what was later Hallstat Culture. They imposed themsleves as elite over those people. Some of them were Celts, some Germans later. And nobody knows who exactly were Cimmerians (proto-Thracians, Indo-Aryans?)

    2. Venedians in Poland, in what is now Latvia, in Armorica, in what is now Switzerland (Vindelics), Asia Minor (Enetoi), in NE-Italy. Vendsysell in Jutland and Vandals also are included???

    3. Some say Scots and Scythians are also similar.
    Proofs of links between these old names??? (possible for some ones, surely not for all of them): we are approaching magic wild etymology and it's not without importance for History - I already answered for Cymru - Sicambri have more chances to be broken in 'sic-ambr' than 'si-cambr-' I think - and for the possible cognate words, a PIE ancient name can have produced more than one tribe name in diverse places without recent links ; caution! -

  4. #54
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteranTagger First Class50000 Experience PointsRecommendation First Class
    Awards:
    Discussion Ender
    LeBrok's Avatar
    Join Date
    18-11-09
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    10,331
    Points
    113,888
    Level
    100
    Points: 113,888, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b Z2109
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1c

    Ethnic group
    Citizen of the world
    Country: Canada-Alberta



    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    Modeling Poles as a mix of Late Bronze Age BR2 and Mesolithic EHG is not a good idea IMHO. Because EHG is much older than BR2, and EHG no longer existed in the Bronze Age. We should use only samples from Late Bronze Age and Iron Age - because people who lived at that time were "direct ancestors" of Early Medieval people.



    Unetice culture covered only one part of Polish territory - in South-Western Poland.

    BTW have you tried this?: http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/ancient.htm
    Again, the Hungary Bronze Age 1,500 BC - Hungary (Vatya) - Rise479 is first with 76% (BR2 - 66%), second 3,000 BC - Sweden - Ajvide58 at 71% which is WHG/SHG with a bit of EEF, and third at 68% is Iron Age Czech 0 BC - Czech R. - Rise569. The two Unetice samples are at 54.
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

  5. #55
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteranTagger First Class50000 Experience PointsRecommendation First Class
    Awards:
    Discussion Ender
    LeBrok's Avatar
    Join Date
    18-11-09
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    10,331
    Points
    113,888
    Level
    100
    Points: 113,888, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b Z2109
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1c

    Ethnic group
    Citizen of the world
    Country: Canada-Alberta



    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    Modeling Poles as a mix of Late Bronze Age BR2 and Mesolithic EHG is not a good idea IMHO. Because EHG is much older than BR2, and EHG no longer existed in the Bronze Age. We should use only samples from Late Bronze Age and Iron Age - because people who lived at that time were "direct ancestors" of Early Medieval people.



    Unetice culture covered only one part of Polish territory - in South-Western Poland.

    BTW have you tried this?: http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/ancient.htm
    Here I modeled modern Polish on 3 roughly contemporary to each other sources. First one is 20 % WHG, which still was lurking in not too far Latvia and maybe Belarus, 60% Hungarian Bronze, and 20% Yamnaya.

    0.2 0.6 0.2
    M325047 KO1, I-L68 F999933 Hungarian Bronze/Badden M828815 Rise552 Modeled Modern
    Hungarian, Tiszaszőlős-Domaháza 7.7 kya Hungary, Ludas-Varjú-dűlő, 3.3kya Ulan iV, Yamnaya 4.5 kya Polish Polish
    Run time 9.43 Run time 15.13 Run time 9.08 Run time Run time 20.5
    S-Indian 0 S-Indian 0 S-Indian 0 S-Indian - S-Indian 0.62
    Baloch 0 Baloch 3.15 Baloch 33.24 Baloch 8.54 Baloch 7.47
    Caucasian 0 Caucasian 14.73 Caucasian 6.58 Caucasian 10.15 Caucasian 10.05
    NE-Euro 80.37 NE-Euro 46.18 NE-Euro 56.02 NE-Euro 54.99 NE-Euro 57.28
    SE-Asian 0 SE-Asian 0.2 SE-Asian 0 SE-Asian 0.12 SE-Asian 0.54
    Siberian 0 Siberian 0 Siberian 0 Siberian - Siberian 1.22
    NE-Asian 0 NE-Asian 0 NE-Asian 0 NE-Asian - NE-Asian 0.35
    Papuan 0.53 Papuan 0.18 Papuan 0 Papuan 0.21 Papuan -
    American 0 American 0 American 2.46 American 0.49 American -
    Beringian 0 Beringian 0 Beringian 0.75 Beringian 0.15 Beringian 0.07
    Mediterranean 18.59 Mediterranean 31.73 Mediterranean 0 Mediterranean 22.76 Mediterranean 21.53
    SW-Asian 0 SW-Asian 3.33 SW-Asian 0 SW-Asian 2.00 SW-Asian 0.86
    San 0 San 0 San 0 San - San -
    E-African 0 E-African 0 E-African 0 E-African - E-African -
    Pygmy 0 Pygmy 0 Pygmy 0 Pygmy - Pygmy -
    W-African 0.5 W-African 0.48 W-African 0.95 W-African 0.58 W-African -


    I should mention that BA Hungarian is modeled by me as 40% EEF, 50% WHG and 10% Armenia Bronze. Armenia Bronze could be substituted by 20% Anatolia Chalcolithic/BA. There is a room for a bit of Yamnaya in Hungarian BA but probably not much.

  6. #56
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Three Friends1 year registered5000 Experience Points
    mlukas's Avatar
    Join Date
    23-04-17
    Posts
    251
    Points
    7,461
    Level
    25
    Points: 7,461, Level: 25
    Level completed: 83%, Points required for next Level: 89
    Overall activity: 36.0%


    Country: Poland



    3 members found this post helpful.
    https://www.academia.edu/33791135/20..._DNA_libraries
    Here, we present the analysis of Y-chromosome obtained from seventeen, not yet reported, ancient male samples excavated from different burial sites in Poland: Kowalewko (Roman Iron Age), Maslomecz (Roman Iron Age), Legowo (early Middle Ages) and Niemcza (early Middle Ages).

    We successfully assigned haplogroups to sixteen individuals. Eight belonged to haplogroup I1 (I-M253). Three of them belonged to the sub-branch I1a3a1a1a (I-L1237) and one to I1a2a (I-Z59). I1 is the most common haplogroup in present day Scandinavia, and it is found in all places invaded by ancient Germanic tribes and Vikings. Four samples belonged to haplogroup G2a (G-P15) which is spread uniformly throughout Europe. Other individuals were assigned to I2a2 (I-M436), R1a (R-M420), R1bl (R-L278), E1b1 (E-P2). The next portion of samples is under investigation. With this study we hope to shed new light into the genetic structure of populations inhabiting lands of contemporary Poland during the Roman Iron Age and the Middle Ages.
    So out of 16:

    8 I1 (I-M253)
    - 3 I1a3a1a1a (I-L1237)
    - 1 I1a2a (I-Z59)
    - 4 just I-M253

    4 G2a (G-P15)

    1 I2a2 (I-m436)
    1 R1a M420
    1 R1b1 (R-L278)
    1 E1b1 (E-P2)

    How we can divide them between those few places? Any opinions? If one R1a m420 was from Wielbark or rather early Polish medieval?

  7. #57
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation Second ClassVeteran50000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    07-09-14
    Posts
    4,582
    Points
    66,418
    Level
    79
    Points: 66,418, Level: 79
    Level completed: 98%, Points required for next Level: 32
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b
    MtDNA haplogroup
    W6

    Ethnic group
    Polish
    Country: Poland



    Mlukas was faster. :)

    So 50% (!) of I1-M253...

    Compare with 12 samples from Görzig (Saxony-Anhalt) dated to 300-400s AD:

    I1 --------------------------------------------------------- 7 (~58%)
    I (likely I2 but can be some Russian clade of I1) ---- 1 (~8%)
    R1b ------------------------------------------------------- 1 (~8%)
    R1 (most likely R1a, or some eastern R1b) ----------- 1 (~8%)
    R1 (likely R1b but can be R1a-Z284 or L664) -------- 2 (~17%)

    Source (see Table 3. on page 6 out of 7):

    https://www.researchgate.net/publica...wanderungszeit

    Location of Görzig:



    Check my older thread about it, link:

    http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...l=1#post478699

  8. #58
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation Second ClassVeteran50000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    07-09-14
    Posts
    4,582
    Points
    66,418
    Level
    79
    Points: 66,418, Level: 79
    Level completed: 98%, Points required for next Level: 32
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b
    MtDNA haplogroup
    W6

    Ethnic group
    Polish
    Country: Poland



    Three of them belonged to the sub-branch I1a3a1a1a (I-L1237)
    Subclade I-L1237 on YFull: https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-L1237/

    The basal lineage of this subclade, I-L1237*, can be found here:



    So Jordanes was right - the Goths had originated from Sweden?

  9. #59
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation Second ClassVeteran50000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    07-09-14
    Posts
    4,582
    Points
    66,418
    Level
    79
    Points: 66,418, Level: 79
    Level completed: 98%, Points required for next Level: 32
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b
    MtDNA haplogroup
    W6

    Ethnic group
    Polish
    Country: Poland



    1 members found this post helpful.
    But Wojewoda from ABF is "ancestral" to these Goths (he is I1 Z63+ S2078+ L1237-).

    Maybe L1237 originated in Poland, south of the Baltic Sea, from Wojewoda's branch.

    Wojewoda is an ethnic Polish user.

  10. #60
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered5000 Experience PointsThree Friends
    I1a3_Young's Avatar
    Join Date
    03-05-17
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    534
    Points
    8,863
    Level
    28
    Points: 8,863, Level: 28
    Level completed: 19%, Points required for next Level: 487
    Overall activity: 2.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I1 Z63*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H5b1

    Ethnic group
    Basically British
    Country: USA - Arkansas



    1 members found this post helpful.
    I thought all of the I1a3 (Z63) branches were relatively rare in Sweden/Norway/Finland. Z59 is also a more continental branch.

  11. #61
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Atlantische's Avatar
    Join Date
    17-07-16
    Posts
    35
    Points
    2,385
    Level
    13
    Points: 2,385, Level: 13
    Level completed: 79%, Points required for next Level: 65
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    G2a-L497

    Ethnic group
    Serb
    Country: Serbia



    G-15 (G2a SNP) telling us nothing.

  12. #62
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation Second ClassVeteran50000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    07-09-14
    Posts
    4,582
    Points
    66,418
    Level
    79
    Points: 66,418, Level: 79
    Level completed: 98%, Points required for next Level: 32
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b
    MtDNA haplogroup
    W6

    Ethnic group
    Polish
    Country: Poland



    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    But Wojewoda from ABF is "ancestral" to these Goths (he is I1 Z63+ S2078+ L1237-).
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    Maybe L1237 originated in Poland, south of the Baltic Sea, from Wojewoda's branch.

    Wojewoda is an ethnic Polish user.
    Wojewoda doesn't know if he should call himself Gothorum Rex or Pater:


  13. #63
    Elite member Achievements:
    Tagger Second ClassThree FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points
    Fire Haired14's Avatar
    Join Date
    20-04-14
    Posts
    2,195
    Points
    28,146
    Level
    51
    Points: 28,146, Level: 51
    Level completed: 55%, Points required for next Level: 504
    Overall activity: 31.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b DF27*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U5b2a2b1

    Country: USA - Illinois



    So we can be pretty confident now I1 is infact basically Germanic. Maybe R1a Z284 and R1b U106 are non-Germanic lineages absorbed by I1 German speakers? Maybe it isn't that simple, I don't know.

  14. #64
    Elite member Achievements:
    Tagger Second ClassThree FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points
    Fire Haired14's Avatar
    Join Date
    20-04-14
    Posts
    2,195
    Points
    28,146
    Level
    51
    Points: 28,146, Level: 51
    Level completed: 55%, Points required for next Level: 504
    Overall activity: 31.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b DF27*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U5b2a2b1

    Country: USA - Illinois



    It's interesting that lots of I1 is found alongside lots of G2a. There are many possible reasons why that is. Maybe an I1 rich Scandinavian group, mixed with a G2a rich group native to Eastern Europe. Another possibility is both the I1 and G2a came from Scandinavia and some in Iron age Scandinavia had lots of EEF.

  15. #65
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Three Friends1 year registered5000 Experience Points
    mlukas's Avatar
    Join Date
    23-04-17
    Posts
    251
    Points
    7,461
    Level
    25
    Points: 7,461, Level: 25
    Level completed: 83%, Points required for next Level: 89
    Overall activity: 36.0%


    Country: Poland



    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    [FONT=Verdana]Wojewoda doesn't know if he should call himself Gothorum Rex or Pater:

    Nope.

    Michał from anthrogenica

    Whatever is his subclade under S2078 (do you know his specific subclade downstream of S2078?), you cannot say that his subclade is "older and ancestral" to those from the paper. These are simply two parallel subclades descending from a common S2078+ ancestor.
    To be classified as S2078* one would need to be tested for all known SNPs/subclades directly under S2078, and he probably hasn't been tested for any SNPs downstream of S2078 other than L1237 (not even for S2077 or Y2245, mutations defining large clades downstream of S2078 but upstream of L1237). Even if he was indeed S2078*, this would not make his modern lineage ancestral to subclade L1237, and you need to keep in mind that the common ancestor of Wojewoda and those ancient L1237 people (ie. their most recent common paternal ancestor) was ancestral to all of them the same way. (In fact, that ancestor was more closely related to those ancient "Poles/Goths", but this is only because these are ancient samples).

    If I was tested for just two mutations, let's say L1085 (from the A0-T level) and M343 (defining R1b), so my results would be L1085+ M343-, this would not make "my lineage" ancestral to all R1b people (including yourself).

    Bear in mind, that author of this paper is Piontek. Until now greatest autochtonist in Poland.

    So if he said:
    I1 is the most common haplogroup in present day Scandinavia, and it is found in all places invaded by ancient Germanic tribes and Vikings."

    It was probably hardest thing for him, which he said recently. So we can be 100% sure this particular I1 is Germanic. He knows better Tomenable. He is the author.

  16. #66
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation Second ClassVeteran50000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    07-09-14
    Posts
    4,582
    Points
    66,418
    Level
    79
    Points: 66,418, Level: 79
    Level completed: 98%, Points required for next Level: 32
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b
    MtDNA haplogroup
    W6

    Ethnic group
    Polish
    Country: Poland



    1 members found this post helpful.
    I1-M253 frequencies in some populations:

    Kashubians -------- 13,06% (35/268)
    Greater Poles ----- 10,45% (21/201)
    Lusatian Sorbs ---- 9,76% (12/123)
    Kociewie ----------- 8,23% (13/158)
    Kurpie ------------- 6,96% (11/158)
    Upper Silesians --- 6,25% (3/48)
    Lesser Poles ------- 5,66% (12/212)
    Mazovian nobility - 5,48% (8/146)
    Wrocław ----------- 4,04% (4/99)

  17. #67
    Elite member Achievements:
    Tagger Second ClassThree FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points
    Fire Haired14's Avatar
    Join Date
    20-04-14
    Posts
    2,195
    Points
    28,146
    Level
    51
    Points: 28,146, Level: 51
    Level completed: 55%, Points required for next Level: 504
    Overall activity: 31.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b DF27*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U5b2a2b1

    Country: USA - Illinois



    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    I1-M253 frequencies in some populations:

    Kashubians -------- 13,06% (35/268)
    Greater Poles ----- 10,45% (21/201)
    Lusatian Sorbs ---- 9,76% (12/123)
    Kociewie ----------- 8,23% (13/158)
    Kurpie ------------- 6,96% (11/158)
    Upper Silesians --- 6,25% (3/48)
    Lesser Poles ------- 5,66% (12/212)
    Wrocław ----------- 4,04% (4/99)
    So I guess modern Poles by and large do not descend from Goths. Another big mystery is what Y DNA the proto Slavs had. How did South Slavs become I2a-Din rich, East and West Slavs R1a rich.

    If Goths originated in Sweden, that would probably mean both continental I1a3-Z63 and Scandinavian I1a2-L22 originated in Scandinavia. Also it raises the possibility that there were groups in Scandinavia with 80%+ I1 that absorbed groups with R1b and R1a.

  18. #68
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation Second ClassVeteran50000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    07-09-14
    Posts
    4,582
    Points
    66,418
    Level
    79
    Points: 66,418, Level: 79
    Level completed: 98%, Points required for next Level: 32
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b
    MtDNA haplogroup
    W6

    Ethnic group
    Polish
    Country: Poland



    I also added I1-M253 for one more population:

    Mazovian nobility - 5,48% (8/146)

    ^^^
    Based on FTDNA "Mazovian Nobility Project".

  19. #69
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Three Friends1 year registered5000 Experience Points
    mlukas's Avatar
    Join Date
    23-04-17
    Posts
    251
    Points
    7,461
    Level
    25
    Points: 7,461, Level: 25
    Level completed: 83%, Points required for next Level: 89
    Overall activity: 36.0%


    Country: Poland



    So we have Wielbark descendants between 4-13% in Poland with south-north cline... If I can add more:)
    Last edited by mlukas; 07-07-17 at 16:57.

  20. #70
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation Second ClassVeteran50000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    07-09-14
    Posts
    4,582
    Points
    66,418
    Level
    79
    Points: 66,418, Level: 79
    Level completed: 98%, Points required for next Level: 32
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b
    MtDNA haplogroup
    W6

    Ethnic group
    Polish
    Country: Poland



    Also more Wielbark descendants among peasants (Kashubians, Greater Poles) than nobility (Mazovia has the highest percent of nobility-descendants of all Polish regions). Something that Figlerowicz already said in one of his interviews. Population structure by region in the 16th century:

    Mazovia:

    Peasantry - 62,4 percent
    Townsmen - 14,1 percent
    Priesthood - 0,1 percent
    Nobility - 23,4 percent (yes - almost 1/4 of Mazovians were nobles)

    Greater Poland:

    Peasantry - 68,9 percent
    Townsmen - 25,2 percent
    Priesthood - 0,3 percent
    Nobility - 5,6 percent

    Royal Prussia:

    Peasantry - 59,3 percent
    Townsmen - 36,5 percent
    Priesthood - 1,2 percent
    Nobility - 3,0 percent

    Let me remind you what lgmayka wrote:

    Quote Originally Posted by lgmayka
    Just as remarkable as a rural southeastern Pole whose first three DNA tests on his relatives yield I2a, G2, and R1b. (That's my family.) The obvious point here is that academic sampling at the universities of big cities does not necessarily reflect local, rural variation, which may vary widely from village to village--in our day, and even more so in ancient and medieval times.

    I really do understand the powerful desire to draw sweeping conclusions from a handful of ancient samples taken from a single archaeological dig--but we need to be realistic as to the limitations of that approach.
    These are Wielbark-descended peasants.

  21. #71
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience PointsVeteran

    Join Date
    05-03-16
    Posts
    385
    Points
    3,587
    Level
    17
    Points: 3,587, Level: 17
    Level completed: 35%, Points required for next Level: 263
    Overall activity: 0%


    Country: Yugoslavia



    So present day Poles by large majority are migrants in their lands?
    We can exclude by this and now a Central European homeland of Slavs which was supported by some,like Bronze age Trzciniec culture where even Balto-Slavic was born? which existed in Poland and is attributed to Slavs,or the later Lusatian culture.
    Completely lack of I2a din and R1a subclades that today are majority among Slavs.

  22. #72
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation Second ClassVeteran50000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    07-09-14
    Posts
    4,582
    Points
    66,418
    Level
    79
    Points: 66,418, Level: 79
    Level completed: 98%, Points required for next Level: 32
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b
    MtDNA haplogroup
    W6

    Ethnic group
    Polish
    Country: Poland



    Trzciniec culture was R1a, we have one sample from Trzciniec (from Gustorzyn):

    http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2017/0...-northern.html

    Wielbark people came to Poland in the Iron Age, and replaced Trzciniec population.

    There was a series of many population replacements (at least in terms of Y-DNA).

  23. #73
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience PointsVeteran

    Join Date
    05-03-16
    Posts
    385
    Points
    3,587
    Level
    17
    Points: 3,587, Level: 17
    Level completed: 35%, Points required for next Level: 263
    Overall activity: 0%


    Country: Yugoslavia



    If they replaced them,there was no Slavic DNA or Slavs in Poland in Iron age,and Slavs did not migrated from Poland to South Europe or anything like that in early medieval time.

  24. #74
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation Second ClassVeteran50000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    07-09-14
    Posts
    4,582
    Points
    66,418
    Level
    79
    Points: 66,418, Level: 79
    Level completed: 98%, Points required for next Level: 32
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b
    MtDNA haplogroup
    W6

    Ethnic group
    Polish
    Country: Poland



    Nobility (szlachta) was multiplying faster than peasants (page 21, Table 1.):

    http://homoeconomicus.uwb.edu.pl/pdf...ograficzne.pdf



    An average nobleman had 2-3 sons surviving to adulthood.

    A typical peasant had only 1-2 sons surviving to adulthood.

  25. #75
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered5000 Experience PointsThree Friends
    I1a3_Young's Avatar
    Join Date
    03-05-17
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    534
    Points
    8,863
    Level
    28
    Points: 8,863, Level: 28
    Level completed: 19%, Points required for next Level: 487
    Overall activity: 2.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I1 Z63*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H5b1

    Ethnic group
    Basically British
    Country: USA - Arkansas



    L1237 is found in the UK as well, so I doubt Polish origination. Certainly Germanic but it spread around.

Page 3 of 7 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •