Albanian lexemes and their presence in the other languages

[Ygorcs]

So now you are suggesting that because my explanation are simple and straightforward to the point, they must be wrong, while a person in the right mind would think exactly the opposite. Let see what you pick to prove your point...

Gentleman, I assure you that double /rr/ is still a /r/ sound. The only difference is that regular /r/ is soft while /rr/ is a strong pronunciation of /r/ . If we find the verb 'err' (dark) in Albanian, different from the Greek 'er'-e-bus or 'er'-e-mnos , because of this double /rr/, this yes must be considered a phonetic evolution because of time(although we don't know this for certain, because this might be just a writing difference in two different languages, in two different times).

Well honestly, I don't expect you to understand that in Albanian the word 'terr'(darkness) as a noun, comes from the verb 'err'(get dark), and the word sterr-ë(pitch black) derives from terr(black, darkness), and the initial /s/ is exactly what it is: a meaning reinforcement affix from terr=dark to sterr=very dark. Preposition /affixes are very common in every language, and especially in Albanian. They play a role in the word meaning, depending on what sound/letter we use it to alter a word meaning, for example:
n-gul(thrust)-------- sh-kul(remove)
n-grij(freeze)--------sh-krij(melt)
n-greh(charge)-------sh-kreh(discharge)
n---->reinforcement affix
sh----> privative affix
g-->k obeys Grim's Law
duk(appear)-----zh-duk(dissapear)
bej(make)------zh-bej(undo)
zh---> just privative

Please don't, because you would have wasted our time.

What I want is that you explain how exactly err- becomes terr-, what is the purpose and use of the affix t-, and how we can confirm that that purpose and meaning is really the one you propose, that is, a consistent and large corpus of words that show the same noun derivation using the affix t-. That's what we call a method, not just randomly finding ad hoc explanations for the etymology of words, without any regularity and consistency by identifying classes of words formed through identical processes of derivation. That I still haven't seen from you. We all want to see systematic, step-by-step explanations to the noun formations you propose which can be replicated in many other totally unrelated words without many exceptions.

I'll give your hypothesis more credibility when instead of just saying "terr comes from err, it's so simple!" you come up with a good explanation for why is that so and one explanation that of course can be applied not just to that word, but to dozens or hundreds of other words. Languages work not through thousands of different rules and processes to each word. They always show some regularity in the more productive processes of evolution, derivation and sound change, and you aren't demonstrating that. Meanwhile, I'll reserve my right to be even more than just skeptical.

P.S.: By the way, I'm curious to know what's the difference in meaning, purpose or usage between your "meaning reinforcement affixes" n- and s-. Are they just generic, "unimportant" words that are added to the roots so that the words can fit your hypothesis, or did you study their meaning besides simple "reinforcement", too? Is there a reason why some words use n- and others use s-?

 

[Ygorcs]

So basically you are saying this: Since a language is expected to change, and since the word 'afër' or 'ditë', are still in use in their unchanged shape, and because of this language evolution we expect every single word to appear different, but they don't, then the whole theory is false. To reason like this, is the most irrational way of thinking, because first of all not every word, should necessary change with the time elapsing, and secondly we are comparing two words in two different times, and everybody can notice that at least graphically 'aphrodite' dhe 'afërditë' are slightly different, but at the same time everybody sense these words must have the same meaning. Then the undeniable coherence on every aspect leaves little room for debate.

So your best argument is that, 3,000 or 4,000 years later, a very ancient word looks almost exactly like a modern compound word that we found and that has a more or less fitting meaning, so because of that phonological smilarity, 3 or 4 milennia apart from each other, it's now "undeniable" and "undebatable" that it is already 100% proved that that ancient word may have only derived from the language where the modern word is found... is that what you meant? Is there really no need to investigate how those Albanian words may have sounded milennia ago? And what coherence do you see there, if not merely "they sound very similar, it's soooo simple", which is something that could be said in hundreds of other cases between virtually any two languages that you compare? Do you really think that there is "undeniable proof" when all you've demonstrated is a similarity of sound and the fact that you can devise a certain meaning that is a priori intelligible, even if it has honestly little to do with Aphrodite the goddess (oh, I see, you somehow think that the naming of the planet came even earlier than the mythology about the goddess herself)? Oh my, you must be kidding us... This looks like an ironic parody of linguistics. lol

 

[Ygorcs]

I really appreciate the fact that someone from so far(you are from Brasil, right?) is so much interested on the Albanian language. From the conversation we had together and from your posts i can make a logical deduction that you do not speak the Albanian language. And it's normal. How many people in Brasil know about the existence of an small country in Balkans named Albania and how many brasilian people can speak this unique language of this small country? Almost zero, except your former President Lula who has been trained for some time here in Albania by his Albanian comrades during the communist regime and probably few other people.
Since you don't speak the Albanian language, i would like to ask you a couple of questions:
How many books have you read about the history of Albania and the Albanians and which was the last one?
How many books have you read about the Albanian language and again, which was the last one?

This is not about Albania or Albanian, but about fundamental concepts and processes of any self-respecting linguistic study. You don't need to speak the language to know that a certain hypothesis is flawed because it ignores basic assumptions and methodological constraints (one of them is, of course, thhat you don't search for the etymology of words merely by similarity of sounds, without a systematic analysis of how those sounds evolved, especially if you're comparing languages that are thousands of years apart from each other) of serious, scholarly, not hobby linguistics. But, yes, I am interested to know more about Albania. It's a fascinating country especially because it managed to preserve a continuous history since the Antiquity, not a small feat in that region of the world (Balkans). Also, one of my favorite singers at this moment is an Albanian woman, Ermonela Jaho.

 

[Ygorcs]

Deus as in Deus Vult is almost identical to the *Di̯ēus, the name of the Proto-Indo-European god of the daytime sky, also called *Dyeus ph2tēr ("Sky Father").

Dios Mio! 6000 years old and such little variation.

That can happen (but 6,000 years is a bit of a stretch, Latin "Deus vult" was more like 3,000 years apart from PIE) - but doesn't often -, HOWEVER please at least make some effort to present us the ancient forms of the language, not compare a word devised 3,000 or 4,000 years ago with a modern compound word exactly as it is spoken now by 21st century people. That simply isn't correct. How am I to trust that those words apher-dite were really almost identical hundreds of generations ago? Out of faith or what?

If one doesn't want to strive to make a more coherent and plausible explanation, one shouldn't even begin such an endeavour, because you can't expect people to simply accept a linguistic comparison between different terms separated by milennia of linguistic evolution, coming from supposedly different languages and, worst of all, without even a systematic explanation for the uncanny similarty even milennia like, like the one you yourself provided for "Deus": deiwós > dewos > deos > deus.

You cite the uncommon case of "deus", but what if I mention so many other cases, like "chaîne" from "catena" in French, or "lord" from "hlafweard" in English? That was just 1,500 years ago!

It's also timely for me that you mentioned "deus". By similarity of sounds, even comparing two ancient words we'd be tempted to declare "undeniable" that "Deus" and "Zeus" come from the same source... but if we study systematically the phonological evolution of Latin and Greek we get rid of that hypothesis and notice that that is just a coincidence, and those two words are not related to the same root nor did mean the same thing originally. And, hey, we were comparing two ancient languages, contemporary to each other, and not an ancient language with a modern one! You gave me one of the best examples of why it is totally misleading to make random comparisons of words and try to derive their etymology from the mere fact that they sound similar.

What I said above is more than enough to demonstrate that, if you want to be taken seriously, you don't make comparisons using a modern language without even remotely caring to know if those words were also similar 3,000 years ago or not. Similarity of sound alone is intriguing, curious, but it's not scientific evidence. If you can't see that that is not adequate for a hypothesis that purports to be scientific, then I'm afraid you ignore - or doesn't care about - the basics of the method of linguistics.

 

[Johane Derite]

What I said above is more than enough to demonstrate that, if you want to be taken seriously, you don't make comparisons using a modern language without even remotely caring to know if those words were also similar 3,000 years ago or not. Similarity of sound alone is intriguing, curious, but it's not scientific evidence. If you can't see that that is not adequate for a hypothesis that purports to be scientific, then I'm afraid you ignore - or doesn't care about - the basics of the method of linguistics.

I will state myself explicitly. My support behind the Aferdita issue is based on:

1. Phonological similarity ("similarity of sound")
2. Semantic coherency with mythology (Aferdita meaning Daybreak/Day-near in Albanian fits in with Iliad Mythology of her parents being Zeus and Dion, gods of sky/thunder and sun)
3. The Dodona cult of Zeus and Dion in northwest greece which is bordering with what Albanians call "Cham Albanians". This increases probability of interaction between proto-albanians and proto-greeks.
4. Afer is a frequently spoken common word (near) as is Dite (day) and thus much less likely to change drastically over time.

( Frequently spoken words are less likely to change over time: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/common-words-less-likely-to-change-5328605.html )


I said it makes sense to me and has an organic coherence to it. I stand by this.

Afër is a variant of Proto-Indo-European *apo- 'off, away', with Proto-Indo-European *apero-. Cognate to Sanskrit अपर (ápara, “posterior, later, following”). (according to Orel)

As you can see it has not changed much phonologically according to him. But again he is only one person and the language is seriously understudied and neglected.

It's also timely for me that you mentioned "deus". By similarity of sounds, even comparing two ancient words we'd be tempted to declare "undeniable" that "Deus" and "Zeus" come from the same source... but if we study systematically the phonological evolution of Latin and Greek we get rid of that hypothesis and notice that that is just a coincidence, and those two words are not related to the same root nor did mean the same thing originally. And, hey, we were comparing two ancient languages, contemporary to each other, and not an ancient language with a modern one! You gave me one of the best examples of why it is totally misleading to make random comparisons of words and try to derive their etymology from the mere fact that they sound similar.

This is not true. Zeus and Deus do come from the same source. ​https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeus#Name:

"Zeus is the Greek continuation of *Di̯ēus, the name of the Proto-Indo-European god of the daytime sky, also called *Dyeus ph2tēr ("Sky Father").[19][20] R. S. P. Beekes, Etymological Dictionary of Greek, Brill, 2009, p. 499.

The god is known under this name in the Rigveda (Vedic Sanskrit Dyaus/Dyaus Pita), Latin (compare Jupiter, from Iuppiter, deriving from the Proto-Indo-Europeanvocative *dyeu-ph2tēr),[21]

deriving from the root *dyeu- ("to shine", and in its many derivatives, "sky, heaven, god").[19] Zeus is the only deity in the Olympic pantheon whose name has such a transparent Indo-European etymology.[22]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyeus



I forgot my 5th reason:

5. Daybreak not only fits organically and coherently with the mythology of her parents attested to in the Iliad. It fits perfectly with Venus,
which appears in the sky at dawn just before sunrise.

From Aphrodite's wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aphrodite:

Aphrodite (/æfrəˈdaɪti/ ( listen)af-rə-DY-tee; Greek: ἈφροδίτηAphrodítē) is the ancient Greek goddess of love, beauty, pleasure, and procreation. She is identified with the planet Venus, which is named after the Roman goddess Venus, with whom Aphrodite was extensively syncretized.

 

[Johane Derite]

I will state myself explicitly. My support behind the Aferdita issue is based on:

1. Phonological similarity ("similarity of sound")
2. Semantic coherency with mythology (Aferdita meaning Daybreak/Day-near in Albanian fits in with Iliad Mythology of her parents being Zeus and Dion, gods of sky/thunder and sun)
3. The Dodona cult of Zeus and Dion in northwest greece which is bordering with what Albanians call "Cham Albanians". This increases probability of interaction between proto-albanians and proto-greeks.
4. Afer is a frequently spoken common word (near) as is Dite (day) and thus much less likely to change drastically over time.

( Frequently spoken words are less likely to change over time: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/common-words-less-likely-to-change-5328605.html )


I said it makes sense to me and has an organic coherence to it. I stand by this.

Afër is a variant of Proto-Indo-European *apo- 'off, away', with Proto-Indo-European *apero-. Cognate to Sanskrit अपर (ápara, “posterior, later, following”). (according to Orel)

As you can see it has not changed much phonologically according to him. But again he is only one person and the language is seriously understudied and neglected.





This is not true. Zeus and Deus do come from the same source. https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Zeus#/Name:

"Zeus is the Greek continuation of *Di̯ēus, the name of the Proto-Indo-European god of the daytime sky, also called *Dyeus ph2tēr ("Sky Father").[19][20] R. S. P. Beekes, Etymological Dictionary of Greek, Brill, 2009, p. 499.

The god is known under this name in the Rigveda (Vedic Sanskrit Dyaus/Dyaus Pita), Latin (compare Jupiter, from Iuppiter, deriving from the Proto-Indo-Europeanvocative *dyeu-ph2tēr),[21]

deriving from the root *dyeu- ("to shine", and in its many derivatives, "sky, heaven, god").[19] Zeus is the only deity in the Olympic pantheon whose name has such a transparent Indo-European etymology.[22]"


https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Dyeus

I forgot my 5th reason:

5. Daybreak not only fits organically and coherently with the mythology of her parents attested to in the Iliad. It fits perfectly with Venus,
which appears in the sky at dawn just before sunrise.

From Aphrodite's wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aphrodite


Aphrodite (/æfrəˈdaɪti/ ( listen)af-rə-DY-tee; Greek: ἈφροδίτηAphrodítē) is the ancient Greek goddess of love, beauty, pleasure, and procreation. She is identified with the planet Venus, which is named after the Roman goddess Venus, with whom Aphrodite was extensively syncretized.

 

[Ownstyler]

I think that DNA analysis is slowly giving us the answer to what is being discussed here. It seems both illyrians and myceneans had similar ancestry, and then mixed with relatively similar natives in Albania and continental Greece. Both illyrians and myceneans had an IE language and culture and since they arrived to the Balkans only around 1000-1500 years after protoIE was spoken. I'd say there is a very very good chance they had similar religions, cultures and languages. I'm not sure if the languages were still intelligible but I believe they would have been about as different as Italian and Romanian, or Russian and Croatian. Keeping this in mind, it is reasonable to expect many ancient greek or proto-Albanian words to have roots that can be explained by the other language too. It is also very likely that some gods & traditions passed from one people to the other.
It doesn't mean that Greeks are Albanian or vice versa. The two were just not as differentiated as they are today.

 

[Ygorcs]

I will state myself explicitly. My support behind the Aferdita issue is based on:

1. Phonological similarity ("similarity of sound")
2. Semantic coherency with mythology (Aferdita meaning Daybreak/Day-near in Albanian fits in with Iliad Mythology of her parents being Zeus and Dion, gods of sky/thunder and sun)
3. The Dodona cult of Zeus and Dion in northwest greece which is bordering with what Albanians call "Cham Albanians". This increases probability of interaction between proto-albanians and proto-greeks.
4. Afer is a frequently spoken common word (near) as is Dite (day) and thus much less likely to change drastically over time.

( Frequently spoken words are less likely to change over time: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/common-words-less-likely-to-change-5328605.html )


I said it makes sense to me and has an organic coherence to it. I stand by this.

Afër is a variant of Proto-Indo-European *apo- 'off, away', with Proto-Indo-European *apero-. Cognate to Sanskrit अपर (ápara, “posterior, later, following”). (according to Orel)

As you can see it has not changed much phonologically according to him. But again he is only one person and the language is seriously understudied and neglected.

This is not true. Zeus and Deus do come from the same source. ​https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeus#Name:

"Zeus is the Greek continuation of *Di̯ēus, the name of the Proto-Indo-European god of the daytime sky, also called *Dyeus ph2tēr ("Sky Father").[19][20] R. S. P. Beekes, Etymological Dictionary of Greek, Brill, 2009, p. 499.

The god is known under this name in the Rigveda (Vedic Sanskrit Dyaus/Dyaus Pita), Latin (compare Jupiter, from Iuppiter, deriving from the Proto-Indo-Europeanvocative *dyeu-ph2tēr),[21]

deriving from the root *dyeu- ("to shine", and in its many derivatives, "sky, heaven, god").[19] Zeus is the only deity in the Olympic pantheon whose name has such a transparent Indo-European etymology.[22]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyeus

Thanks for your more detailed explanation. I find it plausible as a hypothesis, at least you're making a suggestion about one specific word, within its due context, and not trying to portray this ad hoc etymology as an evidence that all the Greek or Latin or even all IE languages' lexicons come directly from Albanian, which is a lot of a stretch. But as I said, it should still be relevant to try to find the ancient forms of those words, instead of relying exclusively on a comparison of the ancient word, probably developed more than 3,000 years ago, with the modern forms of two words not even of the same language, but just from a neighboring language. That kind of comparison becomes extremely vague and hypothetical, and thus less credible.

A potential drawback in that hypothesis appears exactly when we start to investigate how exactly the word that supposedly Albanians lent to Ancient Greeks was like. That is because, at least as per the sources I've found, the Proto-Albanian, ancient forms of *afër-ditë would've been much less similar to Greek "Aphrodité", since the reconstructed old forms are *asper(a) or *apser(a) and *díti. That would give us a Proto-Albanian compound form more or less similar to *asperaditi, *asperditi, *apseraditi or perhaps *apserditi. We have then to find a good explanation for why the Ancient Greeks, whose language had lots of consonant clusters like [sp] and [ps] and [rd], changed that foreign Albanian word exactly to "Aphrodite", and it'd be nice if we found other words where similar phonological developments also happened when Greek devised a new word or borrowed it from another language.

Anyway, your idea is not pointless, there are indeed some intriguing affinities between both words (in terms of semantics, too), but if you want to make it methodologically sound and scientifically credible you should strive to demonstrate that those two words were also very similar and were formed in the same way milennia earlier. We can't simply assume that they did because the hypothesis is too enticing and we want it to be true.

Sorry, I had just woke up when I wrote that bit about Zeus vs Deus, so I confused Zeus with Theos as I wrote it, my bad. The similarity is even more striking considering that "theos" means exactly "deus", "god", and not one particular deity like Zeus. Yet, Theos does not come from the same root as Deus and originally did not even mean the same thing. This is a classic example that is very often mentioned to make people aware of the dangers of these curious and seductive similarities of two words of different languages. One cannot simply assume that their meaning and their sounds are soooo similar that that it is impossible that that is just a coincidence. Often it is just that, an uncanny convergence of sounds and even of sounds and also semantics, nothing else.

 

[LABERIA]

This is not about Albania or Albanian,

Albania and Albanian is part of this discussion.

but about fundamental concepts and processes of any self-respecting linguistic study. You don't need to speak the language to know that a certain hypothesis is flawed because it ignores basic assumptions and methodological constraints (one of them is, of course, thhat you don't search for the etymology of words merely by similarity of sounds, without a systematic analysis of how those sounds evolved, especially if you're comparing languages that are thousands of years apart from each other) of serious, scholarly, not hobby linguistics.

Like this for example:

That is because, at least as per the sources I've found, the Proto-Albanian, ancient forms of *afër-ditë would've been much less similar to Greek "Aphrodité", since the reconstructed old forms are *asper(a) or *apser(a) and *díti. That would give us a Proto-Albanian compound form more or less similar to *asperaditi, *asperditi, *apseraditi or perhaps *apserditi

Excuse me, are you a linguist?

But, yes, I am interested to know more about Albania. It's a fascinating country especially because it managed to preserve a continuous history since the Antiquity, not a small feat in that region of the world (Balkans). Also, one of my favorite singers at this moment is an Albanian woman, Ermonela Jaho.

Great. Allow me to give an friendly advice, start to read some books.

 

[Zeus10]

How exactly terr comes from err and do you stand firm the ground aster is albanian not-dark?

&

What I want is that you explain how exactly err- becomes terr-, what is the purpose and use of the affix t-, and how we can confirm that that purpose and meaning is really the one you propose, that is, a consistent and large corpus of words that show the same noun derivation using the affix t-. That's what we call a method, not just randomly finding ad hoc explanations for the etymology of words, without any regularity and consistency by identifying classes of words formed through identical processes of derivation. That I still haven't seen from you. We all want to see systematic, step-by-step explanations to the noun formations you propose which can be replicated in many other totally unrelated words without many exceptions.

I joined two quotes, because two members are asking the same question. I answered it shortly before, but now I will explain it thoroughly, and my answer is not my interpretation but is the standard explanation how certain nouns are formed in Albanian language. We are talking about "emra foljore" or verbal nouns. As its name suggests a verbal noun is a noun formed by inflection of a verb and partly sharing its constructions. It will be similar to English walk(verb) by adding the gerund 'ing' becoming walking(noun) but not exactly this one, but similar to when use an infinitive regarded as a noun(still not the same). In Albanian, to form a "emer foljor"(verbal noun) from a verb works like this: for example, we have the verb eci(walk):

verb-----------emer foljor(verbal noun)

eci------------të ec-urit

other examples

lë------------të lë-nit
punoj--------të pun-uarit
err--------të err-urit

which means, beside adding a "gerund" at the end you have to add a definite article which is always from the set (i, e, të, së) of a noun genitive.
It's a little complicated but, this is Albanian Grammar. Then the article is incorporated at the noun structure: të ecurit----> t'ecurit, të err-urit---> t'err-urit
This is standard language, which represent less than 1/4 of Albanian language. Geg dialect which is very conservative, preserves the verb structure the same to his word root. For example the infinitive form in standard Albanian 'to darken' will be 'të err-ësoj', while geg dialect is simply "me err" . This is exactly what happens during "verbal noun" formation:

in standard Albanian:
err----->të err-urit------>t'err-urit

in Geg Albanian
err-----> të-err-i----->t'erri which is pronounced terr-i(definitive) or terr(indefinite)
this word is now standard although is more often commonly used from Gheg dialect speakers, while Tosks use mostly err-ësirë, which obviously is not only a synonym, but also carries the same root and origin, which is the verb "err", the same in both major dialects

I'll give your hypothesis more credibility when instead of just saying "terr comes from err, it's so simple!" you come up with a good explanation for why is that so and one explanation that of course can be applied not just to that word, but to dozens or hundreds of other words. Languages work not through thousands of different rules and processes to each word. They always show some regularity in the more productive processes of evolution, derivation and sound change, and you aren't demonstrating that. Meanwhile, I'll reserve my right to be even more than just skeptical.

My bad. I feel I have to apologize about this, because I didn't realize, that certain things in Albanian grammar which are very simple and normal to me, may result very complicated to people who don't know much about the Albanian dictionary and grammar

P.S.: By the way, I'm curious to know what's the difference in meaning, purpose or usage between your "meaning reinforcement affixes" n- and s-. Are they just generic, "unimportant" words that are added to the roots so that the words can fit your hypothesis, or did you study their meaning besides simple "reinforcement", too? Is there a reason why some words use n- and others use s-?

The small list I showed here with n- and sh initial sounds are antonyms couples freeze-melt, do-undo, charge--discharge. The list might be wider, but I brought it here, to demonstrate how certain sounds, play a certain function in altering a word meaning without completely losing it , incorporated as initial sounds, since we were talking about the shift:

terr(dark)------> s-terr(pitch dark)

So the sound /s/ plays the function of the "pitch" word in English, to suggest a superior increment in the phenomenon degree, in our case 'the darkness', from dark--to pitch black

 

[Yetos]

Guys its simple

Albanian Aferdita in Greek is Eosforos even in translation and both are the roman name of planet Venus

Albanian Aferdita has nothing to do with Greek Afrodite

So simple


As for stars

ΑΣΤΗΡ
STERNO
STELLAR
STEREO
ΣΤΕΡΕΩΜΑ

has nothing to do with Albanian language

Why?

cause A+Sterre is JUST A HOAX

if Aster was Albanian ASTERRE
would be Zh+Sterre

THINK

A+STERRE

WE SEE GREEK NEGATIVE A, compare English un- dis in-
and Albanian Sterre
If the word was Albanian sould use the Albanian Negative like Zh-

on the other hand a word that is so common in IE languages,
Even Persian setare and Sanshqrit tara Armenian Astr

So all IE languages from N Europe's German till Armenia highlands and India use the same word,
which can be explained by Albanian lexim sterre and Greek negative A+

AND NOT BY IE VOCABULARY
infact ΑΣΤΗΡ is a primitive noun of virb ΙΣΤΗΜΙ = I Stand
AND THERE NO CO-INCIDENECE THAT IN ALL ΙΕ IS THE SAME

GR ΙΣΤΗ-ΜΙ noun ΙΣΤΗ-Ρ ΑΣΤΗΡ
GER STEHEN
LAT STO
etc

in all IE languages star has the meaning of stable, Standing

if I use the termination given by an Albanian in the thread
that ΑΣΤΗΡ is Albanian from A+sterre = NON DARK, Not Black
THEN IN GERMANIC for Example Stern SURELY MEANS DARK

WHAT KIND OF SICK LINGUISTIC IS THAT

In the case of a "star", Greek (and Latin) is using a different path, to achieve the same objective, coming from a different logics. It's called 'semantics transferability ', from Albanian to create certain dictionary in Greek. The word ἀστήρ (which predates the Latin 'aster'), is an adjacent compound word:

ἀστήρ= ἀ+στήρ

ἀ---> privative preposition = to English un or NOT
στήρ--> is the Albanian meaning sterrë=dark, black


which derives again from:

s(initial reinforcement sound) +t (vowel treated 'të' article) +err(make dark, not-visible-verb)

The compound word simply means: not-dark, since a star is the only object which illuminates in the night sky darkness and it's not result of any descendance from the presumed PIE root nonsense.
This is not an isolated case in Greek, when semantics transferability protocol "borrowing" semantics from Albanian, is enforced. There are many, but one should have a deep understanding in Albanian, to realise that connection between two languages.

that explains Greek ΑSTER as Non DARk/Black but allows Germanic STERN(Star) AS BLACK/DARK

SO ZEUS10 THE GERMANS SEE BLACK STARS? MAYBE DARK STARS IN WHITE SKY? THEY SEE BLACK HOLES!!!!!!!!

COME ON GUYS,
WHICH ALBANIAN OF YOU IN THE FORUM
BELIEVE SUCH CRAP
Greek neg A + Albanian Sterre = Αστηρ Aster = Star =Stern
So STARS IN GERMANY ARE BLACK since no negative A+ just plain STAR, STERN

LINGUISTIC HOAX


I wonder which language in the world would use another's language negative

Think, I like and I dislike, use Greek neg a+ I like and I alike fantastic explanation method result

dum spiro spero Negative is in-dum ne-spiro α-spero
!!!!!!!!!


SO ZEUS HOW IS THE WORD IN ALBANIAN WHICH IS NOT 'SEEN' By SUN?
In GREEK IS ΑΝ-ΗΛΙΟΝ, IN ALBANIAN IS A-DIELLI? or un-dielli? or Ne-dielli maybe nah-dielli

which such 'easy' linguistic, I can prove that Turks speak Shuahili, and Arabs speak Iroqois.

 

[Zeus10]

MAN
look at your last sentence of your post

the rest are just sauce to an imaginary burger

you do agree with me at your last post

another thing is Afrodite
another is Aferdita

NO Connection

AT LEAST FIND A TEXT OF ANCIENT PRE-ROMAN GREEK WHERE PLANET EOSFOROS IS NAMED AFRODITE
NOWHERE, CAUSE ITS NAME IS EOSFOROS AND ITS MALE,

Yetos, you always give arguments against yourself. YES, and again YES Eosphoros, was a boy and Venus was otherwise a girl, with the same significant woman attributes like Aphrodite. Her parents were the same as Aphrodite's: Zeus and Dione, and NOT Aurora [Eos] and Astraeus. Eosphorus was introduced as a syncretized God only by Hesiod as a minor God, and he is nowhere to be found in Homeric pantheon which holds Aphrodite as a major Goddess inside this pantheon. Venus is the Roman counterpart of Aphrodite, and although she carries the Eosphoros attribute as the "Morning Star" she was the "Evening Star" also, which was represented from another Hesiod's little "boy" Hesperos, originally distinct from his little brother. Albanian Afërditë, represents on every front the Greek Goddess Aphrodite and her Roman symbiotic counterpart Venus. The Hesiod's "little boys" are not the Albanian Aferdite in Albanian conscience. Now stop please, and put a sane reasoning on this debate.

 

[Yetos]

Yetos, you always give arguments against yourself. YES, and again YES Eosphoros, was a boy and Venus was otherwise a girl, with the same significant woman attributes like Aphrodite. Her parents were the same as Aphrodite's: Zeus and Dione, and NOT Aurora [Eos] and Astraeus. Eosphorus was introduced as a syncretized God only by Hesiod as a minor God, and he is nowhere to be found in Homeric pantheon which holds Aphrodite as a major Goddess inside this pantheon. Venus is the Roman counterpart of Aphrodite, and although she carries the Eosphoros attribute as the "Morning Star" she was the "Evening Star" also, which was represented from another Hesiod's little "boy" Hesperos, originally distinct from his little brother. Albanian Afërditë, represents on every front the Greek Goddess Aphrodite and her Roman symbiotic counterpart Venus. The Hesiod's "little boys" are not the Albanian Aferdite in Albanian conscience. Now stop please, and put a sane reasoning on this debate.

Mixing Things
creates fog,
but is not convincing


ΕΩΣΦΟΡΟΣ = ΕΩΣ +ΦΕΡΩ = AURORA BRINGER = AFERDITA does not eaqual Afrodite

and you would not find a single ancient pre-Roman text naming Eosforos as Afrodite or Aferdite
so the origin of word Afrodite from Albanian Aferdite is just BUSTED MYTH CREATED BY A .... MIND

believe meI have found many other 'jewels' in your posts,
but laughing time is over for now,
tomorrow

 

[Zeus10]

Guys its simple

Albanian Aferdita in Greek is Eosforos even in translation and both are the roman name of planet Venus

Albanian Aferdita has nothing to do with Greek Afrodite

So simple


As for stars

ΑΣΤΗΡ
STERNO
STELLAR
STEREO
ΣΤΕΡΕΩΜΑ

has nothing to do with Albanian language

Why?

cause A+Sterre is JUST A HOAX

if Aster was Albanian ASTERRE
would be Zh+Sterre

THINK

A+STERRE

WE SEE GREEK NEGATIVE A, compare English un- dis in-
and Albanian Sterre
If the word was Albanian sould use the Albanian Negative like Zh-

No it's not. The Albanian cognate for the Greek 'a' is 'pa'. For example the negated form of the verb shter=exhaust, significantly decrease, would be:

shter-----> pashter-ë(pashtershem)=inexhaustable
njoh---> panjohur

Let me give you an example in "Greek"

exactly like in Albanian : (p)apune

 

[Zeus10]

and you would not find a single ancient pre-Roman text naming Eosforos as Afrodite or Aferdite

Exactly, I can't, because these things are unrelated .

 

[Yetos]

No it's not. The Albanian cognate for the Greek 'a' is 'pa'. For example the negated form of the verb shter=exhaust, significantly decrease, would be:

shter-----> pashter-ë(pashtershem)=inexhaustable
njoh---> panjohur

Let me give you an example in "Greek"

exactly like in Albanian : (p)apune

So Greek can not come from Albanian
neither ancient Greeks spoke Albanian,
and neither Greek is a religious language,
although used by christians to expand Christ's religion
since new testament was written in Greek

since Albanian ate= father in Greek pater might mean non father, if I use the same method pa+ate = pater = non father
plz NOTICE the above
cause using the above I can prove whatever,
we both know it is wrong, but I can, and you can claim whatever with such,
and we are not playing games, there will be a revealing of our false claimings
many times I got ridiculous my shelf, many indeed, the worst was at my 2 last Leesons for Diploma
we do not know all, and we are not born such,
but we must also not believe all we read,
that is called ΛΟΓΟΣ false or true speach.
pitty but only in ancient Greek,
modern Greek is crap


BTW
to make you think
does Albanian negative pa+ cognate with Francais pas, par example je nais veux pas travailler (wow par/for Grimm's law)
just a good question for you to start think in a comperative way
and if does why and how? a good Question on starting understanding and compare, for example, through IE? through Celtic? oposite way? Illyrian remnant? or LPIE?

i do not want an answer, just think, think correct.
ask help, again wonder and think, and again ask help from another, correct and hard, not itsy bitsy tiny bikini
I see you are smart enough,
I do not want to disapoint about your method, and syllabic/themes or glottal moles/root
maybe there is an explanation, maybe you see something that we still don't
but if the results are the above like aferdita and aster,
something is wrong, maybe changing eye view?? for example view the same away from the current view you use today

i liked your matrix with L = motion/liquid, shows cryptographic character,
try to open it above IE and to non IE
or the syllabic speech, like Linear B,
understand rules, AVOID dogma,
but before you publish, be certain,
many PHD or in Greek Διδακτορικα were lost by enthusiastic rush, or wrong ΜΕΝΤΩΡ,
in fact the last is worst than hell, a wrong Mentor can poison your brain, even turn sick your soul,
So first find your ΜΕΝΤΩΡ, is it Athena's wisdom? or Telemachos rush? or Teiresias view? Agamemnon's desire, Menelao's honesty/reveange?
you understand I speak μεταφορικα, with poetic symbols,
Odysseas make how many years to reach Ithake,
and how many wrong Ithakes he met at his life's journey!!!!

 

[Zeus10]

Yetos, let me ask you a question. There is no any trick. How do you understand that smth is unending or limitless? Try to give a short objective answer.

 

[Yetos]

Yetos, let me ask you a question. There is no any trick. How do you understand that smth is unending or limitless? Try to give a short objective answer.

limitless means never ends, but has a sign towards,
un-end means not finished,

so that something if really exists must give same results,
either I use it, either you use,
and can be described with same laws for me and you,

It is like a railroad, once enter and start,
either me, either you MUST GO TO THE SAME RESULT,
if we enter the same railroad, same start and go different endings is Chaos,
so that something is NOTHING,

something is this
1+1=2,
something is also this 1+1=11
somthing can be also this
1+1=1


Different something is this
1+1=2 for me
1+1=11 for you
1+1=1 for a third,
that is different something
so there either someone is wrong,
either use different aproach/'railroad'

but when
1+1=2 for me, also 1+1=11 again for me and 1+1=1 again for me,
IS NOTHING
Chaos is this
1+1=2=11=1

in modern physics
Light is a wave, cause can explain, and explained by many phainomena
Light is a small piece of maze, a quark or something like, cause also can explain and be explained by many phenomena
so light is like 1+1=2 and 1+1=11 ACCORDING THE RAILROAD.
If I use light as maze, to explain wave theories, I have wrong start,
If use light as wave to explain wave theories is a correct start,
AND ALWAYS like the railroad MUST GIVE SAME RESULTS FOR YOU AND ME, correct end,

That is common logic, or known as Galileo transformations at physics,
more advanced logic is the Lorentz transformations, but also give results in scale with common logic
yet in quantum mechanics, Heisenberg proved and introduce UNCERTAINTY PRINCIPLE,
so by that
I consider same the
1+1=2 and this 1+1=1,999999999 and this 1+1=2,0000000001
so the problem here is the Diaspora, scatter results,
and which i consider wrong results,
meaning
1+1= 1,9999999999 10 digital is correct but 1+1=1,99 2 digit is wrong

on the other hand Linguistic is the oposite,
from a chaos we search to find rules/railroads to help us explain the chaos structure,
how chaos works
these rules must always work as a railroad line, and vice-versa, in Greek 1-1 & Επι
with offcourse their exceptions wich also satisfy the law/rule
linguistic is like a river, we known where it starts,
we know statistically where it ends, it is like uncertainty principle that will somewhere
but in midway can take many roads, due to soil and water mechanics,
we know when it fllooded, we known that carries soil, we know will change the surface of souround earth,
we can predict some results using UCLA Einstein Dubois,
but accuracy is so so limited, and so fast, yet if I use deterministic methods for every single mole
I can give clear results even in the chaos of a flooded river,
i can explain Chaos structure,

i hope I was understood,
too much Philosophy the above,


so it is obvious
that when i see this

n-gul(thrust)-------- sh-kul(remove)
n-grij(freeze)--------sh-krij(melt)
n-greh(charge)-------sh-kreh(discharge)
n---->reinforcement affix
sh----> privative affix
g-->k obeys Grim's Law
duk(appear)-----zh-duk(dissapear)
bej(make)------zh-bej(undo)
zh---> just privative

I clearly understand something is wrong,
Or you do not know what you talking and just want to impress,
you are smart,
tell me why i have that feeling that something is wrong,
or maybe better why you violate Albanian language?
proving that is NOT Balkan language, with the above post.
a language imported to its today
like A kolla,
when Ar Kolla said the bellow
Dera Θυρα Porta
he just proved that Albanian is not a balcanic language
is a far away language that entered balkans
only to eyes of ignorant A Kolla is wise and correct.
even a 1rst year student can understand it.

 

[Zeus10]

limitless means never ends, but has a sign towards,
un-end means not finished,

Yes of course, this is the definition, but you didn't answer how do you perceive a limitless object or space.
The correct answer would be: (you) see no edges/limits/borders
Now lets find that word in A.G dictionary:

in the lists of un-s(eng)=a(greek), the unending(limitless, boundless) is given a-pa-ustus or a-pera-ntos or a-peir-us(remember EPIRUS)

Indroducing Albanian lexeme 'pa'= to see.

Albanian has two synonyms for the verb 'see' : shoh(sheh) and pa

but both yield the participle: parë
and continuous tense : (duke) parë
Two synonyms are commonly used respectively in two dialects : te shoh(infinitive tosk-standart), me pa(infinitive gheg)

During inflection in a conservative Gheg dialect pa becomes pe, and shoh becomes sheh(see) in Tosk
there is no doubt that a-peir-os means un-seen(not seeing [edges]) and dedicates its meaning to Albanian language.
More elaboration to come, if someone sees any problem(edges, borders), which certainly will be seen in abundance for your convenience.

 

[Zeus10]

Before you "discredit" the above interpretation, let's put an end to EPIRUS meaning debate. The correct word is Apeiros, and its initial meaning is not CONTINENT(derivative meaning-a continent has been perceived as an unlimited land) but Boundless which takes it semantics from Albanian : paparë, just google it. I know it will translate it as "unprecedented", but the real meaning is "unseen" because unprecedented is smth not seen before.