Where does the Albanian language come from? [VIDEO]

[Silesian]

Cetina is a Bell Beaker peripheral group of its own. They are no Bell Beakers themselves, but unthinkable without the Bell Beaker cultural role model and influence.

Genetically there are Bell Beaker and "Bell Beaker like" ydna. Some Bell Beakers are related to European Pontic steppe L23 group https://amtdb.org/sample/I0443 others not.

 

[Hawk]

You're one of those dudes who is some kind of E-V13 supremacist and wants to associate your y-dna with some kind of proto-Albanians and ignore every genetic data, linguistics, archaeology or whatever, you accuse everyone of either being a sock or belonging to some non-E-V13 because they don't agree with your views. You're speaking for yourself here and not on behalf of E-V13 Albanians, this isn't some haplogroup war like you have made it into your own head. You project here.

If there is someone who should not be trusted it is someone like you and the OP. What matters is what papers, geneticsts say and linguistics , not your own personal theory. As far as I'm concerned, Matzinger has been debunked thanks to archaeogenetics/archaeology and other linguistic studies. Matzinger the same guy who claimed Illyrians came from East Alpine Block when this is not even supported by genetics so far ?

You're a broken record, same pattern of thoughts. Refresh yourself a bit.

entertain, technically this is you trying to hide from your sockpuppet accounts.

 

[Hawk]

Cetina is a Bell Beaker peripheral group of its own. They are no Bell Beakers themselves, but unthinkable without the Bell Beaker cultural role model and influence.

I just read something in Croatian, there is some small Bell-Beaker influence. Cetina is considered as being mainly descended from Adriatic Chalcolithic groups. Hence the confusion. Probably J2b2-L283 has no way descending from Adriatic Chalcolithic groups. Or maybe they migrated during Chalcolithic? But, definitely not Neolithic. It should be on the periphery of North Caucasus that were included in some specific IE tribe. Or they migrated on their own and kept their own language and somewhere in Adriatic they adopted Pre Proto-Illyrian. At this stage it's just speculation. But, being over-senzitive and attacking people of putting options is childish. Major studies come up and some are proven right some wrong, or the real truth lies somewhere in the middle.

Also wondering if Castellieri Culture had any relation to Cetina? Very few solid materials on them. Understandable, a lot of Early Bronze Age Cultures don't have so much reliable material, so..

So, J2b2-L283, I1, E-V13, I2a2-Din, J2a(Greek subclades) these are secondary major IE markers. Notice how each one of them are localized and not ubiquitous like R1b-L51, R1b-Z2103.

 

[mount123]

I just read something in Croatian, there is some small Bell-Beaker influence. Cetina is considered as being mainly descended from Adriatic Chalcolithic groups. Hence the confusion. Probably J2b2-L283 has no way descending from Adriatic Chalcolithic groups. Or maybe they migrated during Chalcolithic? But, definitely not Neolithic. It should be on the periphery of North Caucasus that were included insome specific IE tribe.

Also wondering if Castellieri Culture had any relation to Cetina? Very few solid materials on them. Understandable, a lot of Early Bronze Age Cultures don't have so much reliable material, so..

So, J2b2-L283, I1, E-V13, I-Y3120 (aka I2a-Slav), J2a(Greek subclades) these are secondary major IE markers. Notice how each one of them are localized and not ubiquitous like R1b-L51, R1b-Z2103.

The due to be published J2b-L283 Moldova sample shows ratios of Steppe + Farmer median calBCE age being 4000 BCE (4500-3500 BCE) and won’t be a Yamnaya sample as it predates Yamnaya. This is also a false claim of Bruzmi. This shows that J2b-L283 clearly was present in older IE formations since at least Early Copper Age prior to Yamnaya and is totally absent in Yamnaya, be it in Eastern or South Eastern European Yamnaya. In unrelated neighbouring cultures it only appears in aDNA calBCE dated after EBA Cetina, meaning proof of Cetina genetic influence in them.

EBA Cetina obviously did not fall from heaven and a LCA entry into the East Adriatic macro region seems logical for J2b-L283 to be honest, depending on what kind of time span one would give the formation of such an autosomal profile.

Agreed, the vague EBA archeological source material especially applies to South East Europe. Clearly cannot be compared to the academic situation in Central/Western Europe.

By the way: Samples like the ~2200 calBCE J2b-L283 fella that we will see in future studies, along with other multiple EBA Cetina J2b-L283 (major shocker), is not a Vucedol sample as Bruzmi tried to claim, it is an inland Cetina sample. That Maleschreiber should read more about archeological time frames and the clear differentiation between cultures.

 

[Hawk]

Hawk it's not the fact that I am anti-E-V13 or Bruzmi (a guy who is E-V13 himself) , It's the fact you have been pushing some proto-Albanoid E-V13 theory for some time together with the OP and the fact you compare Bruzmi to Serbo-Chetnik shows exactly what a nutcase you are

Say that we don't agree on opinions. Does it matter? Can i hold the truth from being revealed? No!!! Neither me neither you, or anyone else. So, chill out.

 

[Riverman]

Riverman, the guy who claims all E-V13 are Thracians when it does not appear in that area until 800-900 BC

According to this guy the two E-V13 in Sicily from 480 BCE are also Thracians:

Distance to: ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_2:I10950
0.02644317 MNE_LBA:I13777
0.03004671 MNE_LBA:I13168
0.03136522 HRV_Cetina_BA:I11843
0.03349799 MNE_LBA:I13169
0.03389818 HRV_IA:I5723
0.03457736 HRV_EIA:I23995
0.03494391 MKD_BA:I7231
0.03519045 HRV_EIA:I26742
0.03597359 MNE_LBA:I14498
0.03614792 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I16253
0.03634671 HRV_Cetina_BA:I18746
0.03655479 HRV_EIA:I23904
0.03681637 MNE_LBA:I13775
0.03691214 HRV_IA:I5724
0.03707638 MKD_Anc:I10379
0.03806232 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I14690
0.03809054 MKD_Anc:I10384
0.03896761 HRV_IA:I5729
0.03977342 MKD_Anc:I10388
0.03978091 MNE_LBA:I13167
0.03989859 MKD_Anc:I10383






Distance to: ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_2:I10946
0.03356102 MNE_LBA:I13172
0.03586256 MNE_LBA:I13778
0.03603379 MNE_LBA:I13777
0.03651398 HRV_Cetina_BA:I18745
0.03663615 MKD_Anc:I10385
0.03695543 HRV_EIA:I24639
0.03769119 HRV_IA:I3313
0.03773390 MNE_LBA:I13168
0.03775108 MKD_Anc:I10390
0.03878871 HRV_IA:I5724
0.03900694 MKD_Anc:I10388
0.03905024 HRV_IA:I5723
0.03916860 MNE_LBA:I13169
0.03932334 HRV_Cetina_BA:I18746
0.03939193 MKD_Anc:I10391
0.03993394 HRV_EIA:I23996
0.04121443 HRV_IA:I5728
0.04132913 MNE_LBA:I13167
0.04153822 MKD_Anc:I10384
0.04170134 HRV_Cetina_BA:I11843
0.04189368 HRV_EIA:I26742
0.04206076 HRV_Cetina_BA:I19027
0.04230689 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I14692

My best guess is that they are Basarab-like. Wait for Basarabi samples to get published, then we'll see. If you have earlier E-V13 samples than 800 BC, I'm happy to get them.

 

[mount123]

Hawk it's not the fact that I am anti-E-V13 or Bruzmi (a guy who is E-V13 himself) , It's the fact you have been pushing some proto-Albanoid E-V13 theory for some time together with the OP and the fact you compare Bruzmi to Serbo-Chetnik shows exactly what a nutcase you are

If Moderators are reading through this thread the above "Illyrioi" is enter_tain yet again trying to evade his ban.

 

[Hawk]

In Nish, almost hundred of burials from Early Christian period were found. It's interesting how they differ from the still pagan burials by the fact the latter used cremation.

I hope we can get some aDNA from those burials because they can tell part of the picture.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

I'd like to see the R1b-Z2103 profile from Timacum Minus, which had a Balkan IA cluster.

Hun La Tene I18832 and Skopje I10379 have a almost identical profile, they form what I believe to be the Dardani R1b-Z1203 cluster.
Himera I10950 is the best candidate so far for a south Dacian profile, it has less south Thracian component than Nassius, but also has a little Slavic like mixture. The other Himera E-V13 appears to be highly mixed, I don't think he is a Dacian, but a frontier profile from western Hungary, a Vekerzug type of mixed profile, different type of natives abducted by the Scythians and mixed on the Hungarian plain, as would later occur on a more massive scale under Turkic-Maygar khaganates.

The Dardanian cluster is made of Skopje I10379 in the middle, Cimmerian MJ12 on the right and Hun La Tene I18832 on the left. That's Kukes post-mdv I15707 is right next to Skopje I10379, this individual sample is mostly Dardanian in component with a bit of IA Cinamak and very little to no Slavic.

 

[Riverboy]

I'd like to see the R1b-Z2103 profile from Timacum Minus, which had a Balkan IA cluster.

.

The problem with your PCA Map is that you have added Iron Age samples and compared them to Roman dated samples when it's a fact that almost all samples that even look like Illyrians from the Roman period cluster more east and similar to your ''Dardanii'' including several E-V13 and J2b2-L283 we have and close to the Himera. We have J2b2-L283 from Montenegro that clusters very south similar to some of those Albania Medieval and we have samples from Croatia.

Thracians do not cluster like Himera and claiming them as Dacian is nothing but speculation. This requires more proof. E-V13 from Bulgaria 400 AD is extremely South, it's G25:

BGR_RomByz:I18792,0.114961,0.180764,0.000754,-0.055556,0.023081,-0.02008,-0.00611,0.000462,0.017998,0.043737,-0.008607,0.001649,-0.024678,-0.017616,-0.021444,-0.00716,0.020079,-0.013302,-0.006913,-0.004752,-0.013227,0.016075,-0.006655,0.023377,-0.008981

All Thracians so far are very south weather Roman period or even Iron Age.

 

[Riverboy]

Your Albanian average seems to be also cherrypicked since you keep ignoring the averages that have already been created on AG

 

[Riverboy]

You did not add Cetina BA, Croatia EIA, Montenegro LBA, Macedonia IA ... all these are closer to Albanians than Thracians and it's a fact.
Himera cannot possibly be Dacians. They cluster close to Albanians with the average I have , you just want to make Albanians look closer to Thracians when it's obvious by most PCA Maps and Calculators Albanians are closer to Illyrians and West/Central Balkans

 

[PaleoRevenge]

Your Albanian average seems to be also cherrypicked since you keep ignoring the averages that have already been created on AG

My Alb samples are Davidski, plus 13 scaled profiles posted on Anthrogenica, it includes a lot of people that are childishly mad at me. There is also one additional sample from a public database. My sample is entirely random, it is all I could find. It is not ideal because it is loaded with northern Ghegs, but who cares, it's random.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

The problem with your PCA Map is that you have added Iron Age samples and compared them to Roman dated samples when it's a fact that almost all samples that even look like Illyrians from the Roman period cluster more east and similar to your ''Dardanii'' including several E-V13 and J2b2-L283 we have and close to the Himera. We have J2b2-L283 from Montenegro that clusters very south similar to some of those Albania Medieval and we have samples from Croatia.

Thracians do not cluster like Himera and claiming them as Dacian is nothing but speculation. This requires more proof. E-V13 from Bulgaria 400 AD is extremely South, it's G25:

BGR_RomByz:I18792,0.114961,0.180764,0.000754,-0.055556,0.023081,-0.02008,-0.00611,0.000462,0.017998,0.043737,-0.008607,0.001649,-0.024678,-0.017616,-0.021444,-0.00716,0.020079,-0.013302,-0.006913,-0.004752,-0.013227,0.016075,-0.006655,0.023377,-0.008981

All Thracians so far are very south weather Roman period or even Iron Age.

The problem is that you do not like it, not that there is anything wrong with the awesome graph. You are talking about MENA shifted Illyrians, while I posted entirely IA profiles, and compared them to Mdv Alb, post-mdv Alb and modern Alb.
These MENA shifted Illyrians cannot be modeled as Dardani, you and your friends don't understand this part, or prefer not acknowledge it. Shifting IA Illyrians toward Dardanii through ME mixture, does not make them Dardani, you only brought them near each other on a PCA graph.

HRV_Cetina_BA:Average,0.128050875,0.149283,0.027388375,-0.00121125,0.025197,-0.004287875,0.001527625,-0.0012115,0.007899875,0.02503475,-0.00215175,0.010116125,-0.0163155,-0.010321625,-0.006463875,-0.007193125,0.003552875,0.00147275,0.0015085,-0.005158875,-0.004460875,0.000911875,-0.00263425,0.00308775,-0.00823275
HRV_IA:Average,0.123434777777778,0.150862333333333,0.0372093333333333,-0.00190211111111111,0.0360748888888889,-0.00164233333333333,-0.000156666666666667,0.000512777777777778,0.0105443333333333,0.026971,-0.002905,0.00934177777777778,-0.0146678888888889,-0.008288,-0.00407166666666667,0.000663,0.00617155555555556,0.00160466666666667,0.00340788888888889,-0.00143133333333333,-0.002246,0.00399822222222222,-0.00239644444444444,0.00125855555555556,-0.00274088888888889
ALB_Çinamak_Anc:Average,0.12475,0.1537512,0.0302452,-0.0142766,0.0300362,-0.0074186,0.003008,0.0005078,-0.001636,0.0248934,0.0011366,0.0071936,-0.0192368,-0.0072664,-0.0093376,-0.0049058,0.0066756,0.0026096,0.0039722,-0.0091042,-0.007986,0.0025474,-0.0043382,0.0057118,-0.0064664
MKD_Southwest_Ohrid_Anc:Average,0.1227012,0.153345,0.0232306,-0.0133722,0.0244968,-0.0063586,-0.0016922,-0.0033692,0.0006136,0.0272624,0.0058134,0.0063242,-0.0168878,-0.0066334,-0.0106676,-0.0031822,0.0011472,0.0044846,0.007944,-0.0095546,-0.0135512,0.0084826,-0.0017008,0.009688,-0.0026104
South_Thracian:Average,0.120342,0.162484636363636,0.00750790909090909,-0.0525021818181818,0.0298237272727273,-0.0213985454545455,-0.000427272727272727,-0.00148963636363636,0.0115091818181818,0.0437533636363636,0.002864,0.00821554545454545,-0.0182042727272727,-0.000963272727272727,-0.0228134545454545,-0.0118847272727273,0.00982618181818182,0.00269490909090909,0.00823909090909091,-0.00983418181818182,-0.00948327272727273,0.005598,-0.00368618181818182,0.00316554545454545,-0.00649918181818182
I10379_&_I18832:Dardani_Average,0.1274815,0.148775,0.0199875,-0.0276165,0.028159,-0.0145025,0.0036425,-0.0006925,0.005829,0.0338045,0.0021925,0.0083925,-0.0124875,-0.00578,-0.023344,0.0061655,0.028489,0.001647,0.0071015,-0.0015005,-0.016783,0.0032765,0.0006165,0.00723,-0.0022155
SRB_Naissus:R6764_&_Himera_I10950:North_Thracian,0.125205,0.1518215,0.023193,-0.0192185,0.0396995,-0.013108,0.00329,0.002077,0.0055225,0.0343515,0.003897,0.01139,-0.0133795,0.003991,-0.01934,0.000928,0.0232085,-0.00057,0.0109985,-0.0011255,-0.007986,0.001793,-0.003944,-0.003735,-0.005748
Classical_Greek_Himera_6th_BCE:Average,0.119134833333333,0.161807666666667,-0.00804533333333333,-0.0634156666666667,0.0238505,-0.0244958333333333,-0.00317266666666667,-0.00446133333333333,0.00657883333333333,0.0417321666666667,0.0026525,0.0105905,-0.019202,-0.0009175,-0.0167615,-0.0124413333333333,0.00986566666666667,-0.0004855,0.00689233333333333,-0.00862916666666667,-0.0100863333333333,0.007048,-0.000534166666666667,0.00576366666666667,-0.00275416666666667
Roman_Illyrian:Average,0.11640755,0.14827275,0.01590735,-0.01959345,0.0263737,-0.0079153,0.00024225,0.0007535,0.0047945,0.02055265,0.0003135,0.0051458,-0.01159915,-0.00368825,-0.0062838,-0.0029959,0.00217265,0.00032735,0.00419575,-0.00434065,-0.0027379,0.00291775,-0.0013988,0.00210235,-2.11999999999999E-05
POL_Weklice_Early_Goths:Average,0.133660714285714,0.129552571428571,0.0762861428571429,0.065892,0.043085,0.0241838571428571,0.00553942857142857,0.0118347142857143,0.00745042857142857,-0.007758,-0.00675071428571429,0.00389657142857143,-0.00736928571428571,-0.00650742857142857,0.0185354285714286,0.0119141428571429,0.00378085714285714,0.000688,0.00183171428571429,0.00644957142857143,0.007986,0.00245528571428571,-0.00151428571428571,0.011912,-0.00145414285714286
Slav_MA,0.1292408,0.1278645,0.0744299,0.0667435,0.0442321,0.0231226,0.0087166,0.012545,-0.0003718,-0.0232598,-0.00248,-0.0092645,0.0149742,0.0188792,-0.0083037,0.0013741,0.0066141,-0.0015894,0.0034395,0.003297,-0.0047075,-0.0031365,0.0046274,-0.0053785,0.0002395
Sargat_IA:Average,0.093477,-0.068548125,0.0658075,0.0608855,-0.049201625,-6.98750000000006E-05,0.003055125,0.004442,-0.01516025,-0.02890725,0.014899125,-0.00252875,0.008566625,-0.033236,0.002680375,0.001027625,-0.009664875,0.00121925,-0.001853875,-0.003329625,-0.009343,0.006244375,0.001802375,0.003057625,0.001167625
MNG_Early_Xiongnu:Average,0.0668927692307692,-0.207246076923077,0.0557848461538462,0.0257157692307692,-0.0602005384615385,-0.009375,0.00723107692307692,0.00658553846153846,-0.0122085384615385,-0.0164993846153846,-0.0166386153846154,-0.00288215384615385,-0.000903461538461539,-0.0122060769230769,0.0140104615384615,0.000917846153846154,-0.00948784615384615,0.00161784615384615,0.00147938461538462,0.00503115384615384,-0.0186401538461538,-0.00195938461538462,-0.00628553846153846,0.00203923076923077,0.00205415384615385
AZE_Caucasus_lowlands_LC:ALX002,0.097888,0.137096,-0.06939,-0.072675,-0.023697,-0.013666,0.005875,-0.003692,-0.024338,-0.00164,0.011205,-0.013338,0.012636,0.00578,-0.020765,0.030893,0.024903,0.004181,-0.000251,-0.007754,0.004617,0.015086,-0.003944,-0.015544,-0.005508
ARM_Noratus_Anc:Average,0.0944735,0.137604,-0.05638,-0.0637925,-0.0253895,-0.019941,0.0038775,-0.005192,-0.0223955,-0.0041,0.00609,0.00517,-0.006764,-0.0052985,-0.0010855,0.00305,0.009453,-0.001964,0.005594,-0.0068785,0.003993,-0.00136,0.0019105,-0.0025905,0.003353
IRN_Hasanlu_C_BA_&_IA:Average,0.0949608571428571,0.126070714285714,-0.0649725714285714,-0.0443432857142857,-0.0409744285714286,-0.00844628571428571,0.00688228571428571,-0.00458228571428571,-0.0376322857142857,-0.0118451428571429,0.00605485714285714,6.42857142857142E-05,0.000977,-0.00359785714285714,0.000853,0.00746271428571429,-0.000707857142857143,0.00356528571428571,0.00301685714285714,-0.00394842857142857,0.00180042857142857,-0.00439857142857143,-0.00508828571428571,-0.00719542857142857,0.00138571428571429
Levant_PPNB:Average,0.0774,0.165192666666667,-0.0314266666666667,-0.139752333333333,0.035699,-0.063215,-0.0110453333333333,-0.012999,0.0681746666666667,0.0413676666666667,0.0197033333333333,-0.014287,0.0312683333333333,-0.00197266666666667,-0.0285013333333333,0.009016,0.0160803333333333,-0.00135133333333333,-0.00439966666666667,0.019926,-0.00391,0.008491,-0.00209533333333333,-0.00397633333333333,-0.006267
ISR_Natufian_EpiP,0.034147,0.152329,-0.022627,-0.140506,0.042162,-0.085062,-0.016921,-0.015692,0.12476,0.019317,0.028743,-0.025327,0.085926,-0.004129,0.004886,-0.014054,-0.011213,-0.007855,-0.02074,0.023136,0.01123,0.001607,0.00912,0.003735,-0.003233
Berber_Tunisia_Chen,-0.0279499,0.1390711,-0.0080871,-0.0764792,0.0277316,-0.0352023,-0.0313867,0.0052818,0.0684246,0.0297957,0.0040057,-0.0043877,0.0196314,-0.0161248,0.0140923,-0.0169052,0.0001521,-0.0232896,-0.0467247,0.0078579,-0.0168314,-0.0404275,0.0281347,-0.0044517,0.0063666

The calc completely ignores the Roman Illyrian average.

 [TABLE]
 [TR]
 [TD="class: xl63, width: 64"]Croatia_Sipar:R3663___AD_781___Coverage_41.88%,0.1161,0.150298,0.023759,-0.011951,0.029236,-0.005578,0.00517,0.002769,0.001841,0.018041,0.004709,0.01124,-0.009217,-0.004404,-0.002579,-0.011403,0.002086,0.002407,0.01433,-0.012256,-0.002246,0.005193,-0.000493,0.006748,-0.000599[/TD]
 [/TR]
 [TR]
 [TD="class: xl63"]HRV_Gardun:R3543___AD_516_J-FT212328,0.114961,0.151314,0.008297,-0.028424,0.022158,-0.011156,0.006815,0.001154,-0.006749,0.029522,-0.005196,0.010491,-0.01115,-0.010046,-0.010858,-0.002254,-0.003651,0.001394,0.000503,-0.008129,-0.005989,-0.001484,-0.005176,0.003012,-0.000359[/TD]
 [/TR]
 [TR]
 [TD="class: xl63"]HRV_Gardun:R3544___AD_575_J-Z1043,0.114961,0.145221,0.017725,-0.026163,0.023081,-0.012829,0.00705,0.001385,0.007363,0.024784,0.001624,0.010341,-0.013974,0.001101,-0.007872,-0.005436,-0.001825,-0.00266,0.002263,-0.004127,0.004367,0.000742,-0.009737,-0.003253,0.002634[/TD]
 [/TR]
 [TR]
 [TD="class: xl63"]HRV_Omišalj-Mirine:R2053___AD_468,0.114961,0.152329,0.020365,-0.015827,0.014772,-0.003904,-0.009635,0.000462,0.016566,0.02041,0.003735,0.0003,-0.00996,0.002064,-0.008143,-0.019888,-0.009127,-0.004181,0.006788,-0.012381,-0.007861,-0.001113,0.005916,0.004458,0.003473[/TD]
 [/TR]
 [TR]
 [TD="class: xl63"]HRV_Sisak_Pogorelec:R2041___AD_303,0.112685,0.144205,0.010559,-0.021964,0.026466,-0.005857,0.003995,-0.001615,-0.005727,0.017677,0.003897,0.001948,-0.008622,-0.016928,-0.009093,0.001061,0.004433,0.003167,-0.004525,-0.001251,-0.004742,0.002473,0.005916,-0.001566,0.006945[/TD]
 [/TR]
 [TR]
 [TD="class: xl63"]HRV_Sisak_Pogorelec:R2042___AD_327,0.091058,0.150298,-0.001131,-0.053295,0.022466,-0.022311,-0.001175,-0.000923,0.019225,0.014579,-0.000974,-0.003447,0.004311,-0.008945,0.006515,-0.00411,0.008866,-0.004687,-0.000377,-0.007128,-0.00262,0.00507,-0.001602,-0.003253,0.000838[/TD]
 [/TR]
 [TR]
 [TD="class: xl63"]HRV_Velic:R3685___AD_500_G2a2b-L497,0.117238,0.146236,0,-0.027778,0.017849,-0.020638,-0.00329,-0.006692,-0.000818,0.021868,-0.000325,0.003897,-0.018434,-0.001514,-0.009908,0.009944,0.011474,-0.003421,0.00264,-0.002501,-0.004866,-0.004081,-0.002958,0.004699,-0.001557[/TD]
 [/TR]
 [TR]
 [TD="class: xl63"]HRV_Zadar_Ulica:R3744___AD_146,0.114961,0.152329,0.012445,-0.021641,0.022773,-0.016733,-0.00517,-0.001385,0.001227,0.0277,-0.008931,0.00045,-0.019326,-0.011147,-0.007057,-0.007955,-0.000391,0.000507,0.005656,0.001876,-0.003743,0.003215,0.004437,-0.004097,0.001557[/TD]
 [/TR]
 [TR]
 [TD="class: xl63"]Croatia_Scitarjevo:R3659___AD_313___Coverage_44.68%,0.1234,0.1433,0.0255,-0.0033,0.032,-0.0038,0.0032,0.0033,0.0059,0.0187,0.0001,0.0049,-0.0136,0,-0.0057,-0.0041,0.0016,0.0011,0.0051,-0.0049,-0.0036,0.0016,-0.0069,-0.0029,-0.0021[/TD]
 [/TR]
 [TR]
 [TD="class: xl63"]Croatia_Beli_Manastir:R3542___AD_330___Coverage_57.06%_R-FGC22516,0.124067,0.150298,0.021873,-0.011628,0.02185,-0.006972,-0.002585,0.003231,-0.005727,0.023144,0.000974,0.005695,-0.013231,-0.010597,-0.004614,0.005569,0.009518,-0.003674,0.006662,-0.001,-0.00262,0.007419,0.001725,0.012773,-0.014729[/TD]
 [/TR]
 [TR]
 [TD="class: xl63"]Croatia_Gardun:R3544___AD_575___Coverage_61.45%_J-Z1043,0.114961,0.145221,0.016216,-0.022933,0.023389,-0.011435,0.00799,0.003461,0.005727,0.024602,0.004384,0.012589,-0.015312,0.001514,-0.009365,-0.004641,-0.001304,-0.001014,0.002514,-0.003001,0.00262,0.002844,-0.007888,0,-0.000359[/TD]
 [/TR]
 [TR]
 [TD="class: xl63"]Croatia_Osijek:R3655___AD_220___Coverage_45.18%,0.120652,0.147252,0.038466,-0.007429,0.047701,-0.004462,0.00141,0.008307,0.011453,0.019864,-0.013478,0.001349,-0.010704,0.002752,-0.001357,-0.010209,-0.010952,0.000887,0.011439,-0.008379,-0.007112,0.001113,0.001232,0.006507,-0.006347[/TD]
 [/TR]
 [TR]
 [TD="class: xl63"]Croatia_Sipar:R3662___AD_599___Coverage_48.79%,0.118376,0.148267,0.00528,-0.031331,0.028005,-0.00251,-0.001175,-0.000231,0.013908,0.022597,0.004547,0.010341,-0.012042,0.007432,-0.008279,-0.00411,-0.002477,-0.001267,0,-0.002251,-0.000998,0.004451,-0.001356,-0.001566,0.000479[/TD]
 [/TR]
 [TR]
 [TD="class: xl63"]Croatia_Sipar:R3663___AD_781___Coverage_41.88%,0.1161,0.150298,0.018856,-0.013889,0.024004,-0.001116,-0.000705,-0.005077,0.001227,0.021322,0.002273,0.009292,-0.011744,0.00523,-0.001086,-0.013657,-0.018123,0.009628,0.000377,0.001501,-0.006239,0.001978,-0.002958,0.001205,0.011017[/TD]
 [/TR]
 [TR]
 [TD="class: xl63"]Croatia_Sipar:R3664___AD_751___Coverage_56.39%_e-ft1910,0.114961,0.14319,0.025644,0,0.032314,0.002231,-0.003055,-0.001615,0.001636,0.014943,-0.000812,-0.002398,-0.00892,-0.009083,-0.004614,0.008884,0.022817,-0.004054,0.008296,0.006753,-0.002995,0,-0.000616,-0.003735,0.00012[/TD]
 [/TR]
 [TR]
 [TD="class: xl63"]Croatia_Zadar_Hypo_banka:R3745___AD_72___Coverage_58.46%_E-y30977,0.124067,0.156392,0.02753,-0.011628,0.0397,0.006414,-0.000705,0.002308,0.015953,0.028611,0.005034,0.001049,-0.008622,0.00289,-0.008686,-0.018297,-0.013299,0.005828,0.014581,-0.012631,0.003868,0.005441,0.004067,0.001446,-0.000718[/TD]
 [/TR]
 [TR]
 [TD="class: xl63"]Croatia_Zadar_Poliklinika:R3747___AD_177___Coverage_65.64%_R-Y3140,0.120652,0.147252,0.017725,-0.018734,0.033852,-0.01004,-0.003055,-0.005538,0.013294,0.01877,-0.000325,0.005995,-0.012933,-0.004679,-0.006379,-0.003978,-0.002217,0.002154,0.003017,-0.008879,0.005865,0.007296,0.001725,-0.000241,-0.009221[/TD]
 [/TR]
 [TR]
 [TD="class: xl63"]HRV_Trogir_Byz:I15463,0.1161,0.148267,0.010559,-0.023256,0.014772,-0.011713,0,0.002769,0.003068,0.011299,0.001624,0.002698,-0.011447,-0.004817,-0.011672,0.012729,0.026989,-0.000507,-0.001508,-0.002501,0.001373,-0.000618,-0.008627,0.001325,-0.000479[/TD]
 [/TR]
 [TR]
 [TD="class: xl63"]HRV_Trogir_Byz:I15741,0.120652,0.149283,0.000754,-0.028424,0.022158,-0.014781,-0.000235,0,-0.004909,0.010752,-0.001786,0.007943,-0.014271,-0.008945,-0.003257,0.010209,0.014864,-0.001014,-0.002891,0.000125,-0.003369,0.003462,-0.002465,0.010845,0.001197[/TD]
 [/TR]
 [TR]
 [TD="class: xl63"]SRB_Viminacium:R9669___AD_220_J-Z1295,0.117238,0.144205,0.017725,-0.012274,0.028928,-0.001116,0,0.009,0.001432,0.021868,0.005196,0.008243,-0.012785,-0.005643,-0.011672,0.001724,0.004172,0.005954,0.00905,-0.005753,-0.013851,0.013354,-0.002218,0.00964,0.007784[/TD]
 [/TR]
 [/TABLE]

 

[torzio]

Target: LiburnianG25
Distance: 0.0080% / 0.00803527
37.3 Roman_Illyrian
23.2 HRV_IA
18.6 HRV_Cetina_BA
10.1 POL_Weklice_Early_Goths
5.5 South_Thracian
5.3 Slav_MA


modern "liburnian" from island of Cres
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cres

 

[Excine]

The problem is that you do not like it, not that there is anything wrong with the awesome graph. You are talking about MENA shifted Illyrians, while I posted entirely IA profiles, and compared them to Mdv Alb, post-mdv Alb and modern Alb.
These MENA shifted Illyrians cannot be modeled as Dardani, you and your friends don't understand this part, or prefer not acknowledge it. Shifting IA Illyrians toward Dardanii through ME mixture, does not make them Dardani, you only brought them near each other on a PCA graph.

PaleoRevenge's latest "model" is so ridiculously misleading with overlapping figures that many samples which aren't at least as "northern" as the northernmost Italians will score very weird results. This includes even a Bronze Age J-L283 Illyrian from from Cetina who apparently scores:

Target: J-L283:HRV_Cetina_BA:I11843
Distance: 1.6602% / 0.01660169
46.2 MKD_Southwest_Ohrid_Anc
35.8 SRB_Naissus
6.0 AZE_Caucasus_lowlands_LC
5.6 HRV_Cetina_BA
4.4 Slav_MA
1.4 Sargat_IA
0.6 MNG_Early_Xiongnu

 

[Riverboy]

The problem is that you do not like it, not that there is anything wrong with the awesome graph. You are talking about MENA shifted Illyrians, while I posted entirely IA profiles, and compared them to Mdv Alb, post-mdv Alb and modern Alb.
These MENA shifted Illyrians cannot be modeled as Dardani, you and your friends don't understand this part, or prefer not acknowledge it. Shifting IA Illyrians toward Dardanii through ME mixture, does not make them Dardani, you only brought them near each other on a PCA graph.

HRV_Cetina_BA:Average,0.128050875,0.149283,0.027388375,-0.00121125,0.025197,-0.004287875,0.001527625,-0.0012115,0.007899875,0.02503475,-0.00215175,0.010116125,-0.0163155,-0.010321625,-0.006463875,-0.007193125,0.003552875,0.00147275,0.0015085,-0.005158875,-0.004460875,0.000911875,-0.00263425,0.00308775,-0.00823275
HRV_IA:Average,0.123434777777778,0.150862333333333,0.0372093333333333,-0.00190211111111111,0.0360748888888889,-0.00164233333333333,-0.000156666666666667,0.000512777777777778,0.0105443333333333,0.026971,-0.002905,0.00934177777777778,-0.0146678888888889,-0.008288,-0.00407166666666667,0.000663,0.00617155555555556,0.00160466666666667,0.00340788888888889,-0.00143133333333333,-0.002246,0.00399822222222222,-0.00239644444444444,0.00125855555555556,-0.00274088888888889
ALB_Çinamak_Anc:Average,0.12475,0.1537512,0.0302452,-0.0142766,0.0300362,-0.0074186,0.003008,0.0005078,-0.001636,0.0248934,0.0011366,0.0071936,-0.0192368,-0.0072664,-0.0093376,-0.0049058,0.0066756,0.0026096,0.0039722,-0.0091042,-0.007986,0.0025474,-0.0043382,0.0057118,-0.0064664
MKD_Southwest_Ohrid_Anc:Average,0.1227012,0.153345,0.0232306,-0.0133722,0.0244968,-0.0063586,-0.0016922,-0.0033692,0.0006136,0.0272624,0.0058134,0.0063242,-0.0168878,-0.0066334,-0.0106676,-0.0031822,0.0011472,0.0044846,0.007944,-0.0095546,-0.0135512,0.0084826,-0.0017008,0.009688,-0.0026104
South_Thracian:Average,0.120342,0.162484636363636,0.00750790909090909,-0.0525021818181818,0.0298237272727273,-0.0213985454545455,-0.000427272727272727,-0.00148963636363636,0.0115091818181818,0.0437533636363636,0.002864,0.00821554545454545,-0.0182042727272727,-0.000963272727272727,-0.0228134545454545,-0.0118847272727273,0.00982618181818182,0.00269490909090909,0.00823909090909091,-0.00983418181818182,-0.00948327272727273,0.005598,-0.00368618181818182,0.00316554545454545,-0.00649918181818182
I10379_&_I18832:Dardani_Average,0.1274815,0.148775,0.0199875,-0.0276165,0.028159,-0.0145025,0.0036425,-0.0006925,0.005829,0.0338045,0.0021925,0.0083925,-0.0124875,-0.00578,-0.023344,0.0061655,0.028489,0.001647,0.0071015,-0.0015005,-0.016783,0.0032765,0.0006165,0.00723,-0.0022155
SRB_Naissus:R6764_&_Himera_I10950:North_Thracian,0.125205,0.1518215,0.023193,-0.0192185,0.0396995,-0.013108,0.00329,0.002077,0.0055225,0.0343515,0.003897,0.01139,-0.0133795,0.003991,-0.01934,0.000928,0.0232085,-0.00057,0.0109985,-0.0011255,-0.007986,0.001793,-0.003944,-0.003735,-0.005748
Classical_Greek_Himera_6th_BCE:Average,0.119134833333333,0.161807666666667,-0.00804533333333333,-0.0634156666666667,0.0238505,-0.0244958333333333,-0.00317266666666667,-0.00446133333333333,0.00657883333333333,0.0417321666666667,0.0026525,0.0105905,-0.019202,-0.0009175,-0.0167615,-0.0124413333333333,0.00986566666666667,-0.0004855,0.00689233333333333,-0.00862916666666667,-0.0100863333333333,0.007048,-0.000534166666666667,0.00576366666666667,-0.00275416666666667
Roman_Illyrian:Average,0.11640755,0.14827275,0.01590735,-0.01959345,0.0263737,-0.0079153,0.00024225,0.0007535,0.0047945,0.02055265,0.0003135,0.0051458,-0.01159915,-0.00368825,-0.0062838,-0.0029959,0.00217265,0.00032735,0.00419575,-0.00434065,-0.0027379,0.00291775,-0.0013988,0.00210235,-2.11999999999999E-05
POL_Weklice_Early_Goths:Average,0.133660714285714,0.129552571428571,0.0762861428571429,0.065892,0.043085,0.0241838571428571,0.00553942857142857,0.0118347142857143,0.00745042857142857,-0.007758,-0.00675071428571429,0.00389657142857143,-0.00736928571428571,-0.00650742857142857,0.0185354285714286,0.0119141428571429,0.00378085714285714,0.000688,0.00183171428571429,0.00644957142857143,0.007986,0.00245528571428571,-0.00151428571428571,0.011912,-0.00145414285714286
Slav_MA,0.1292408,0.1278645,0.0744299,0.0667435,0.0442321,0.0231226,0.0087166,0.012545,-0.0003718,-0.0232598,-0.00248,-0.0092645,0.0149742,0.0188792,-0.0083037,0.0013741,0.0066141,-0.0015894,0.0034395,0.003297,-0.0047075,-0.0031365,0.0046274,-0.0053785,0.0002395
Sargat_IA:Average,0.093477,-0.068548125,0.0658075,0.0608855,-0.049201625,-6.98750000000006E-05,0.003055125,0.004442,-0.01516025,-0.02890725,0.014899125,-0.00252875,0.008566625,-0.033236,0.002680375,0.001027625,-0.009664875,0.00121925,-0.001853875,-0.003329625,-0.009343,0.006244375,0.001802375,0.003057625,0.001167625
MNG_Early_Xiongnu:Average,0.0668927692307692,-0.207246076923077,0.0557848461538462,0.0257157692307692,-0.0602005384615385,-0.009375,0.00723107692307692,0.00658553846153846,-0.0122085384615385,-0.0164993846153846,-0.0166386153846154,-0.00288215384615385,-0.000903461538461539,-0.0122060769230769,0.0140104615384615,0.000917846153846154,-0.00948784615384615,0.00161784615384615,0.00147938461538462,0.00503115384615384,-0.0186401538461538,-0.00195938461538462,-0.00628553846153846,0.00203923076923077,0.00205415384615385
AZE_Caucasus_lowlands_LC:ALX002,0.097888,0.137096,-0.06939,-0.072675,-0.023697,-0.013666,0.005875,-0.003692,-0.024338,-0.00164,0.011205,-0.013338,0.012636,0.00578,-0.020765,0.030893,0.024903,0.004181,-0.000251,-0.007754,0.004617,0.015086,-0.003944,-0.015544,-0.005508
ARM_Noratus_Anc:Average,0.0944735,0.137604,-0.05638,-0.0637925,-0.0253895,-0.019941,0.0038775,-0.005192,-0.0223955,-0.0041,0.00609,0.00517,-0.006764,-0.0052985,-0.0010855,0.00305,0.009453,-0.001964,0.005594,-0.0068785,0.003993,-0.00136,0.0019105,-0.0025905,0.003353
IRN_Hasanlu_C_BA_&_IA:Average,0.0949608571428571,0.126070714285714,-0.0649725714285714,-0.0443432857142857,-0.0409744285714286,-0.00844628571428571,0.00688228571428571,-0.00458228571428571,-0.0376322857142857,-0.0118451428571429,0.00605485714285714,6.42857142857142E-05,0.000977,-0.00359785714285714,0.000853,0.00746271428571429,-0.000707857142857143,0.00356528571428571,0.00301685714285714,-0.00394842857142857,0.00180042857142857,-0.00439857142857143,-0.00508828571428571,-0.00719542857142857,0.00138571428571429
Levant_PPNB:Average,0.0774,0.165192666666667,-0.0314266666666667,-0.139752333333333,0.035699,-0.063215,-0.0110453333333333,-0.012999,0.0681746666666667,0.0413676666666667,0.0197033333333333,-0.014287,0.0312683333333333,-0.00197266666666667,-0.0285013333333333,0.009016,0.0160803333333333,-0.00135133333333333,-0.00439966666666667,0.019926,-0.00391,0.008491,-0.00209533333333333,-0.00397633333333333,-0.006267
ISR_Natufian_EpiP,0.034147,0.152329,-0.022627,-0.140506,0.042162,-0.085062,-0.016921,-0.015692,0.12476,0.019317,0.028743,-0.025327,0.085926,-0.004129,0.004886,-0.014054,-0.011213,-0.007855,-0.02074,0.023136,0.01123,0.001607,0.00912,0.003735,-0.003233
Berber_Tunisia_Chen,-0.0279499,0.1390711,-0.0080871,-0.0764792,0.0277316,-0.0352023,-0.0313867,0.0052818,0.0684246,0.0297957,0.0040057,-0.0043877,0.0196314,-0.0161248,0.0140923,-0.0169052,0.0001521,-0.0232896,-0.0467247,0.0078579,-0.0168314,-0.0404275,0.0281347,-0.0044517,0.0063666

The calc completely ignores the Roman Illyrian average.

Nope you cherry picked the samples, you did not add one Alb_MDV that clusters with the Iron Age or close.

All your averages are cherrypicked , same way you accused us of using fake coordinates because you did not like the results. Run these samples on any decent calculator or add them on any decent PCA Map and you will see these Thracian samples do not cluster anywhere close compared to some of these Illyrians, they are way too south, even when you zoom into the PCA Map it is pretty clear, once you fill enough Albanian samples especially. There are no Albanians that shift that south but there are quite some people that shift West. Davidski averages mean nothing, I got over 100 Albanian samples.


In what planet does the Dardani average represent Iron Age Dardani ? They are obviously samples from the Roman period found in Eastern Serbia in Roman military station or they are from somewhere else such as samples from Macedonia which you prove exactly they cluster closer. Same thing for the Himera which are obviously not Thracian. The Sample from Naissus is not from the Iron Age.


You just cherry picked the samples to make it look like they cluster closer yet funny how Roman Illyrians cluster closer to Albanians than actual Roman Thracians which exactly your PCA Map shows.

 

[Riverboy]

In What planet is Hungary la Tene and Cimmerian supposed to represent Dardanian cluster. Even for Roman Croatia you cherrypicked the samples. We got a bunch of J2b2-L283 and E-V13 from Roman period that are next to the Albanian cluster and which clearly are not Thracians but Illyrians. Why don't you use the Albanian averages that were published by Bruzmi on Anthrogenica, it's of course because you don't like the average and what it shows , you basically just cherrypick Davidski averages and some others that show a more Eastern profile. why don't you add all averages or all individuals ?

 

[Riverboy]

Of course you cherrypicked the samples , we got a bunch of other samples which you can also find here anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?26174-Stable-population-structure-in-Europe-since-the-Iron-Age-despite-high-mobility&p=883200&viewfull=1#post883200

But let's just use these Albanian Davidski averages of yours and run them through the calculator to compare them to Iron Age/Late Bronze Age Illyrians (who are quite identical) and Iron Age Thracians



Distance to: Albanian:Montenegro1
0.03132410 HRV_EIA:I23904
0.03334852 MKD_BA:I7231
0.03338041 HRV_Cetina_BA:I11843
0.03537019 MKD_Anc:I10384
0.03562476 MNE_LBA:I13168
0.03591369 HRV_Cetina_BA:I18746
0.03607501 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I14692
0.03616051 MNE_LBA:I13775
0.03650164 HRV_EIA:I23995
0.03683121 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I14690
0.03687171 MNE_LBA:I13172
0.03690184 MNE_LBA:I13777
0.03966288 HRV_Cetina_BA:I18747
0.04015501 MKD_Anc:I10388
0.04035240 MNE_LBA:I13169
0.04038746 HRV_EIA:I24639
0.04053462 MNE_LBA:I13171
0.04069462 HRV_IA:I5729
0.04091782 HRV_EIA:I26742
0.04172378 MNE_LBA:I13167
0.04208957 MKD_Anc:I10385
0.04242888 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I16251
0.04251362 MNE_LBA:I14501
0.04297598 HRV_IA:I5724
0.04301119 HRV_IA:I3313






Distance to: Albanian:ALB202
0.03545706 HRV_Cetina_BA:I11843
0.03742649 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I16251
0.03920410 MKD_BA:I7231
0.04043987 MNE_LBA:I13777
0.04224343 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I14690
0.04235882 HRV_EIA:I23904
0.04301663 HRV_Cetina_BA:I18747
0.04326490 MKD_Anc:I10385
0.04348781 MNE_LBA:I13775
0.04396457 HRV_Cetina_BA:I18746
0.04423626 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I14692
0.04424307 HRV_EIA:I23995
0.04520423 MNE_LBA:I13167
0.04550504 MKD_Anc:I10384
0.04570788 MNE_LBA:I13168
0.04612120 MNE_LBA:I13172
0.04643901 MNE_LBA:I13169
0.04808454 MKD_Anc:I10388
0.04895470 MNE_LBA:I13171
0.04898351 MKD_Anc:I8112
0.04962902 HRV_IA:I3313
0.04964229 HRV_EIA:I26742
0.04979345 MNE_LBA:I14498
0.04985416 HRV_Cetina_BA:I18745
0.05105129 MKD_Anc:I10381




Distance to: Albanian:WestKosovo1
0.02862840 HRV_Cetina_BA:I11843
0.03109614 MNE_LBA:I13168
0.03296702 MNE_LBA:I13777
0.03581437 MKD_Anc:I10384
0.03590633 HRV_Cetina_BA:I18746
0.03604520 MNE_LBA:I13775
0.03619879 HRV_EIA:I23904
0.03666670 MNE_LBA:I14501
0.03709432 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I14690
0.03794881 MKD_BA:I7231
0.03887293 HRV_EIA:I23995
0.03901302 HRV_EIA:I26742
0.03906136 MNE_LBA:I13172
0.03952219 MNE_LBA:I13171
0.03963040 MNE_LBA:I14498
0.03977430 MNE_LBA:I13169
0.03995876 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I14692
0.04073203 HRV_IA:I5724
0.04080599 HRV_IA:I5723
0.04108709 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I16253
0.04176015 MKD_Anc:I10388
0.04177253 HRV_EIA:I24639
0.04194310 MNE_LBA:I13167
0.04287887 HRV_Anc:I18830
0.04325812 HRV_Cetina_BA:I18747




Distance to: Albanian:NorthEast1
0.02958867 HRV_Cetina_BA:I11843
0.03056200 MKD_BA:I7231
0.03218182 MNE_LBA:I13775
0.03298366 MKD_Anc:I10384
0.03324316 MKD_Anc:I10388
0.03437205 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I14692
0.03451591 HRV_Cetina_BA:I18746
0.03501022 MNE_LBA:I13168
0.03514496 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I16251
0.03638968 HRV_EIA:I23904
0.03685830 MNE_LBA:I13167
0.03847529 MNE_LBA:I13777
0.03851420 MKD_Anc:I10379
0.03889239 MNE_LBA:I13171
0.03918654 MNE_LBA:I14501
0.03935107 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I14690
0.03969145 HRV_EIA:I26742
0.03996925 MNE_LBA:I13172
0.04023680 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I16253
0.04080619 MNE_LBA:I13169
0.04137144 MKD_Anc:I10385
0.04158272 HRV_Cetina_BA:I18747
0.04175109 MKD_Anc:I10390
0.04228355 MNE_LBA:I14498
0.04235862 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I14688




Distance to: Albanian:SouthWest3
0.03425080 MKD_Anc:I10379
0.03589378 MNE_LBA:I13171
0.03649627 HRV_Cetina_BA:I11843
0.03664075 HRV_EIA:I23904
0.03757457 MNE_LBA:I13775
0.03907945 MKD_BA:I7231
0.03949822 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I14692
0.03969053 MKD_Anc:I10383
0.04036488 MNE_LBA:I13168
0.04109186 MKD_Anc:I8112
0.04268597 MNE_LBA:I13777
0.04308664 MKD_Anc:I10384
0.04319782 MNE_LBA:I13169
0.04320770 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I16251
0.04340028 MNE_LBA:I13167
0.04385311 HRV_Cetina_BA:I18747
0.04392913 HRV_Cetina_BA:I18746
0.04401842 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I14690
0.04437567 HRV_Anc:I18830
0.04470327 HRV_EIA:I23995
0.04477399 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I16256
0.04507475 HRV_EIA:I26742
0.04532495 MKD_Anc:I10388
0.04642947 HRV_Anc:I18831
0.04675841 MNE_LBA:I14498






Distance to: Albanian:SouthWest2
0.03171664 MKD_Anc:I10379
0.03294895 HRV_Cetina_BA:I11843
0.03617186 MKD_BA:I7231
0.03757410 MNE_LBA:I13775
0.03871297 HRV_EIA:I23904
0.04043099 MNE_LBA:I13171
0.04069364 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I14692
0.04077361 MKD_Anc:I10384
0.04079491 MKD_Anc:I10383
0.04121415 MNE_LBA:I13167
0.04129902 MNE_LBA:I13168
0.04184614 MKD_Anc:I10388
0.04240217 MNE_LBA:I13777
0.04331239 MKD_Anc:I8112
0.04336494 MNE_LBA:I13169
0.04383600 HRV_Cetina_BA:I18746
0.04470183 HRV_Cetina_BA:I18747
0.04546704 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I16251
0.04567926 MNE_LBA:I14498
0.04628091 HRV_EIA:I26742
0.04681389 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I14690
0.04706957 HRV_EIA:I23995
0.04782237 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I16253
0.04788133 MKD_Anc:I10381
0.04816708 MNE_LBA:I14501




Distance to: Albanian:NorthWest2
0.03174645 MKD_BA:I7231
0.03208174 MKD_Anc:I10379
0.03317413 MNE_LBA:I13171
0.03331672 HRV_Cetina_BA:I11843
0.03611561 MNE_LBA:I13775
0.03694623 MNE_LBA:I13168
0.03780781 MKD_Anc:I8112
0.03824531 MKD_Anc:I10383
0.03905954 HRV_EIA:I23904
0.03934469 MKD_Anc:I10384
0.03935897 MNE_LBA:I13167
0.03948880 MKD_Anc:I10388
0.04007383 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I14692
0.04020748 HRV_EIA:I26742
0.04027323 MNE_LBA:I13777
0.04280003 MNE_LBA:I13169
0.04290299 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I14690
0.04293411 HRV_Cetina_BA:I18746
0.04325969 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I16256
0.04335548 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I16251
0.04426889 MNE_LBA:I14498
0.04441842 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I16253
0.04458759 MNE_LBA:I14501
0.04495555 HRV_EIA:I23995
0.04575286 HRV_Anc:I18830




Distance to: Albanian:NorthWest1
0.02943722 MKD_BA:I7231
0.03036791 HRV_Cetina_BA:I11843
0.03558487 MKD_Anc:I10384
0.03713335 MKD_Anc:I10388
0.03750190 MNE_LBA:I13172
0.03803951 MNE_LBA:I13775
0.03907452 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I16251
0.03907825 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I14692
0.03909937 MNE_LBA:I13167
0.03932519 HRV_Cetina_BA:I18746
0.03949643 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I14690
0.04045784 HRV_EIA:I23904
0.04062135 MNE_LBA:I13168
0.04075789 MKD_Anc:I10390
0.04097387 MNE_LBA:I13777
0.04139268 MKD_Anc:I10385
0.04228608 MNE_LBA:I13169
0.04322574 MNE_LBA:I14501
0.04367713 MKD_Anc:I10379
0.04404553 HRV_Cetina_BA:I18747
0.04409977 HRV_EIA:I26742
0.04438565 MKD_Anc:I10391
0.04460292 HRV_IA:I3313
0.04463758 MNE_LBA:I13171
0.04512386 MNE_LBA:I14498




Distance to: Albanian:North3
0.02180721 HRV_Cetina_BA:I11843
0.02399422 MKD_BA:I7231
0.03256867 MKD_Anc:I10384
0.03449145 MNE_LBA:I13172
0.03474495 MKD_Anc:I10388
0.03550501 HRV_EIA:I23904
0.03550544 MNE_LBA:I13777
0.03590850 MNE_LBA:I13775
0.03614781 MNE_LBA:I13167
0.03640315 MNE_LBA:I13168
0.03711358 MNE_LBA:I13169
0.03805712 MKD_Anc:I10379
0.03821957 HRV_Cetina_BA:I18747
0.03877975 MKD_Anc:I10391
0.03908427 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I14692
0.03943803 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I16251
0.03944638 MNE_LBA:I14498
0.04002650 HRV_EIA:I26742
0.04004291 MKD_Anc:I8112
0.04019223 MKD_Anc:I10390
0.04025943 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I14690
0.04030684 HRV_Cetina_BA:I18746
0.04108679 MNE_LBA:I14501
0.04275167 MKD_Anc:I10381
0.04279108 HRV_IA:I3313






Distance to: Albanian:NorthMacedonia2
0.03840278 HRV_Cetina_BA:I11843
0.03959524 MKD_Anc:I8112
0.04085784 MNE_LBA:I13171
0.04112472 MKD_Anc:I10379
0.04165668 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I16256
0.04187510 HRV_EIA:I23904
0.04208359 MNE_LBA:I13775
0.04209090 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I14690
0.04266923 MNE_LBA:I13168
0.04350178 MNE_LBA:I13777
0.04373949 MNE_LBA:I13169
0.04395499 MKD_BA:I7231
0.04432687 HRV_EIA:I26742
0.04457000 MNE_LBA:I13167
0.04483558 HRV_Cetina_BA:I18746
0.04494414 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I16251
0.04506895 MKD_Anc:I10383
0.04516665 MNE_LBA:I14498
0.04558447 HRV_Anc:I18830
0.04631496 HRV_EIA:I23995
0.04647842 HRV_Cetina_BA:I18747
0.04742152 ALB_MBA:I8471
0.04746815 MNE_LBA:I14501
0.04783595 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I14692
0.04787557 MKD_Anc:I10384




Distance to: Albanian:NorthMacedonia1
0.03139391 MKD_Anc:I10379
0.03587814 HRV_Cetina_BA:I11843
0.03754550 MNE_LBA:I13171
0.03785301 MNE_LBA:I13775
0.03888161 MKD_Anc:I10383
0.03978372 MKD_BA:I7231
0.04098517 MNE_LBA:I13168
0.04152188 MKD_Anc:I10384
0.04160062 MKD_Anc:I8112
0.04185362 MNE_LBA:I13167
0.04216443 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I14692
0.04296951 HRV_Cetina_BA:I18746
0.04369872 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I16251
0.04371767 HRV_EIA:I23904
0.04384152 MNE_LBA:I13777
0.04398664 MKD_Anc:I10388
0.04457967 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I16256
0.04573926 MNE_LBA:I14501
0.04575399 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I16253
0.04586980 HRV_EIA:I26742
0.04649118 MNE_LBA:I13169
0.04684107 HRV_Anc:I18831
0.04695840 HRV_Cetina_BA:I18747
0.04700833 HRV_Anc:I18830
0.04813790 MNE_LBA:I14498






Distance to: Albanian:NorthCentral1
0.03070191 MNE_LBA:I13775
0.03101506 MNE_LBA:I13167
0.03231660 HRV_Cetina_BA:I11843
0.03270406 MKD_Anc:I10388
0.03531329 MKD_BA:I7231
0.03541705 HRV_EIA:I23904
0.03578940 MKD_Anc:I10384
0.03710190 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I16251
0.03710950 HRV_Cetina_BA:I18746
0.03754342 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I14690
0.03765120 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I14692
0.03766014 MKD_Anc:I10383
0.03788353 MNE_LBA:I13171
0.03822742 MNE_LBA:I14501
0.03827315 HRV_Cetina_BA:I18747
0.03942510 MNE_LBA:I13168
0.03955687 MKD_Anc:I8112
0.04020190 MKD_Anc:I10379
0.04104686 MKD_Anc:I10390
0.04119553 MNE_LBA:I14498
0.04138320 HRV_EIA:I26742
0.04176192 MNE_LBA:I13777
0.04180000 MNE_LBA:I13169
0.04372172 MKD_Anc:I10385
0.04407116 MNE_LBA:I13172










Now there are a bunch of people who shift even more
West but the problem is all this guys Albanian averages are
shift more east, these are not results we got from Albanians of AG
but still your Thracian does not even show up mate.






Add them on to any decent PCA Map and you see who these samples cluster closer to.

 

[torzio]

Distance to: Vettor
0.09351697 HRV_Gardun:R3545___AD_487
0.14210835 FRA_Sarrebourg:R11558___AD_331
0.14363573 SVK_Tes_Mlynany:R2209___AD_400
0.14841915 FRA_Sarrebourg:R11550___AD_331
0.15111707 HRV_Osijek:R3656___AD_280
0.15324703 SRB_Viminacium:R9674___AD_134
0.15740139 Iberia_West_Monteda_Nora:R10494___AD_781
0.15874833 Iberia_West_Monteda_Nora:R10491___AD_832
0.16047920 Iberia_West_Miroico:R10501___AD_426
0.16097701 SRB_Beska:R6681___AD_331
0.16182177 ITA_Isola_Sacra:R11120___AD_201
0.16254705 Iberia_West_Miroico:R10506___AD_426
0.16290318 Iberia_West_Miroico:R10499___AD_331
0.16341510 SVN_Emona:R10469___AD_296
0.16391821 Iberia_West_Monteda_Nora:R10496___AD_829
0.16430332 Iberia_West_Miroico:R10503___AD_518
0.16599526 ITA_Palazzo_della_Cancelleria:R1291___AD_950
0.16695177 Iberia_West_Miroico:R10502___AD_426
0.16921036 AUT_Klosterneuburg:R10660___AD_217
0.17023323 ITA_Urbino_Bivio:R1554___AD_173
0.17063814 SVK_Mikusovce:R2202___AD_25
0.17106061 HRV_Sisak_Pogorelec:R2041___AD_303
0.17155477 HRV_Sipar:R3664___AD_751
0.17195697 HRV_Sisak_Pogorelec:R2042___AD_327
0.17209697 SVK_Tes_Mlynany:R2211___AD_400


Target: Vettor
Distance: 0.0810% / 0.08102752
77.9 HRV_Gardun
22.1 AUT_Wels

YHRD already marked these markers for myself 6 years ago




....................................................................................


Distance to: LiburnianG25
0.02005678 SVK_Tes_Mlynany:R2210___AD_400
0.02291300 SVK_Tes_Mlynany:R2206___AD_450
0.02315885 AUT_Klosterneuburg:R10660___AD_217
0.02604643 HRV_Sisak_Pogorelec:R2040___AD_324
0.02642088 HRV_Scitarjevo:R3659___AD_313
0.02838480 AUT_Wels:R10666___AD_716
0.02884709 HRV_Umag_Sipar:R2045___AD_577
0.02891302 FRA_Sarrebourg:R11554___AD_272
0.03032420 AUT_Wels:R10665___AD_717
0.03159807 FRA_Metz_Sablon:R2057___AD_470
0.03212274 SVN_Emona:R10478___AD_329
0.03282297 SVN_Emona:R10477___AD_286
0.03314600 HRV_Osijek:R3655___AD_220
0.03380027 SRB_Viminacium:R9669___AD_220
0.03420151 HRV_Zadar_Poliklinika:R3747___AD_177
0.03435562 FRA_Sarrebourg:R11556___AD_280
0.03452230 ITA_Isola_Sacra:R11121___AD_201
0.03594280 ITA_Palazzo_della_Cancelleria:R1294___AD_950
0.03639865 AUT_Klosterneuburg:R10654___AD_333
0.03640438 SVN_Emona:R10467___AD_327
0.03673961 HRV_Sipar:R3664___AD_751
0.03689067 FRA_Sarrebourg:R11555___AD_272
0.03730444 AUT_Wels:R10670___AD_271
0.03847138 SRB_Svilos_Krusevlje:R6693___AD_284
0.03856341 SVK_Mikusovce:R2202___AD_25


Target: LiburnianG25
Distance: 0.0001% / 0.00006258
10.7 FRA_Sarrebourg
9.5 POL_Weklice
8.1 DEU_Hassleben
6.8 HRV_Umag_Sipar
6.6 HRV_Zadar_Ulica
6.5 AUT_Klosterneuburg
5.9 HRV_Zadar_Poliklinika
5.8 ITA_Isola_Sacra
5.7 ITA_Sardinia_Imbenia
5.5 MNE_Doclea_Bjelovine
4.4 SRB_Svilos_Krusevlje
3.8 SRB_Viminacium
3.5 ARM_Beniamin
3.4 HRV_Omišalj-Mirine
2.8 FRA_Metz_Sablon
2.4 HRV_Sisak_Pogorelec
2.4 SVN_Emona
2.2 AUT_Wels
2.0 HRV_Gardun
1.9 ITA_Palazzo_della_Cancelleria