Where does the Albanian language come from? [VIDEO]

[Olti27]

from book 10
We know very little about Appian beyond that he was a Greek from Alexandria, spent time as a lawyer in Rome, belonged to the equestrian order, and likely took a position as procurator. Appian’s work on Roman Matters is an important source not only for the Roman civil wars but also for Rome’s engagements with other peoples (the so-called “Foreign Wars” section of the work), including the peoples that the Romans and Greeks grouped together under the label “Illyrians.” Much like “Thracians” and “Scythians,” the category “Illyrians” was a designation for a variety of different peoples who lived on the Balkan peninsula between Epeiros in the southeast and Pannonia in the northwest, extending northeast up to the Danube (ancient Istros) river. Appian himself is very much aware that “Illyrians” was an outsider designation rather than a self-identification.
he also states Liburnians are Illyrians
The Liburnians, another Illyrian descent group, were next to the Ardiaians as a maritime people. Liburnians engaged in sea-banditry in the Ionian [Adriatic] sea and islands with their light, fast-sailing vessels, for which reason the Romans to this day call their own light, swift ships with two-banks of oars “liburnidas.”
I see no Dardanian ...except
Scipio made peace with the Maidians and Dardanians, accepting from them part of the gold belonging to the temple.

I see the invasion of greece
The Autariensians were overtaken with destruction by the vengeance of Apollo. Having joined Molostimos and the Celtic people called Kimbrians in an expedition against the temple of Delphi,
The peoples whom the Greeks called Illyrians.(6) These peoples, and also the Pannonians, the Rhaetians, the Norikans, the Mysians of Europe, and the other neighbours who inhabited the right bank of the Istros,

Appian, Illyrian wars chapter 1 section 2:
Illyrius had six sons, Encheleus, Autarieus, Dardanus, Mædus, Taulas, and Perrhæbus, also daughters, Partho, Daortho, Dassaro, and others, from whom sprang the Taulantii, the Perrhæbi, the Enchelees, the Autarienses, the Dardani, the Partheni, the Dassaretii, and the Darsii.

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.01.0230:text=Ill.:chapter=1:section=1

 

[Illyria]

Appian, Illyrian wars chapter 1 section 2:
Illyrius had six sons, Encheleus, Autarieus, Dardanus, Mædus, Taulas, and Perrhæbus, also daughters, Partho, Daortho, Dassaro, and others, from whom sprang the Taulantii, the Perrhæbi, the Enchelees, the Autarienses, the Dardani, the Partheni, the Dassaretii, and the Darsii.

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.01.0230:text=Ill.:chapter=1:section=1

Worth mentioning the relation of these tribes too:

Autarieus had a son Pannonius, or Pæon, and the latter had sons, Scordiscus and Triballus, from whom nations bearing similar names were derived.

 

[Johane Derite]

The fact that Appian also designates Triballi, Perhabi, Maedi, as Illyrians, and that he thinks Pannonians and Paeonians are the same thing shows how untrustworthy and non-definitive his account is.

 

[Illyria]

The fact that Appian also designates Triballi, Perhabi, Maedi, as Illyrians, and that he thinks Pannonians and Paeonians are the same thing shows how untrustworthy and non-definitive his account is.

While those first three tribes were known as Thracian in origin, they likely did receive Illyrian influence in the Iron Age

We see J-L283 in Northern Serbia/Hungary 1900BC, J-L283 in Eastern Serbia during the Roman Era, in Dardania. Triballi were said to have been pushed out by Illyrians after suffering catastrophe in wars with Macedonians, and then later the Triballi were ruled by Illyrians. Dardania also became Illyrian ruled in the IA

Paeonians also had contacts with Illyrians / Northern-Central Albania, and with the Dardani to the north of them. The Maedi were just south east of the Dardani, living next to the Bessi. Maybe they got some Illyrian influence too, who knows. The Perrhaebi also lived in the fringes of Illyria, just south east of Lake Ohrid

No chance these tribes were either pure Illyrians or pure Thracians, too much historical overlap in the central balkans, for these groups to live next to each other and interact with eachother for thousands of years and "stay pure", no way. Thracians in Greece admixed with Greeks, Illyrians in Epirus admixed with Greeks, Northern Illyrians and Northern Thracians mixed with Celts, Illyrians in Italy mixed with Italic tribes, that's just how it goes. Illyrians and Thracians mixed too, the central balkans would have been the melting pot where J-L283, E-V13, and R1b met

 

[Hawk]

While those first three tribes were known as Thracian in origin, they likely did receive Illyrian influence in the Iron Age

We see J-L283 in Northern Serbia/Hungary 1900BC, J-L283 in Eastern Serbia during the Roman Era, in Dardania. Triballi were said to have been pushed out by Illyrians after suffering catastrophe in wars with Macedonians, and then later the Triballi were ruled by Illyrians. Dardania also became Illyrian ruled in the IA

Paeonians also had contacts with Illyrians / Northern-Central Albania, and with the Dardani to the north of them. The Maedi were just south east of the Dardani, living next to the Bessi. Maybe they got some Illyrian influence too, who knows. The Perrhaebi also lived in the fringes of Illyria, just south east of Lake Ohrid

No chance these tribes were either pure Illyrians or pure Thracians, too much historical overlap in the central balkans, for these groups to live next to each other and interact with eachother for thousands of years and "stay pure", no way. Thracians in Greece admixed with Greeks, Illyrians in Epirus admixed with Greeks, Northern Illyrians and Northern Thracians mixed with Celts, Illyrians in Italy mixed with Italic tribes, that's just how it goes. Illyrians and Thracians mixed too, the central balkans would have been the melting pot where J-L283, E-V13, and R1b met

There was only 1 J2b2-L283 found in Maros Culture, then in addition Maros during that time in Southern/Central Pannonia wasn't like really super-important culture when you compare it with some other cultures during the same timeline like Vatin, the only reason why it caught the attention of Serbian archaeologists is because they used inhumation burials, otherwise i am pretty sure they would sample the more important culture in the region Vatin who used cremation burials. At least that is the impression i got from reading materials, there is overwhelmly far more material on Vatin than Maros. It looks like Maros didn't leave much of succession in Southern Pannonia, IDK.

The J-L283 in Eastern Serbia were not from native population, they were either some Dalmatian Numerii or Illyrian soldiers stationed there in Timacum Minus.

And Triballi were never ruled by Illyrians, it was the Triballi who probably during Iron Age pushed both Dardanians and Glasinac Illyrians as attested by the North-Thracian/Bosut-Bassarabi finds up to Novi Pazar. And, then the Triballi were pushed East by Autariate somewhere in Late Iron Age or Classical times.

And, no records ever that Maedi had any kind of Illyrian influence, they were too deep in Rhodope to have such an influence. More like Dardanians, Paeonians would be the meeting point. And a slight Illyrian influence on Triballi but their material culture doesn't indicate any mid-heavy Illyrian influence, Triballis were even more archaic cremation users than other Thracians with the exception of Geto-Dacians.

 

[Riverman]

There was only 1 J2b2-L283 found in Maros Culture, then in addition Maros during that time in Southern/Central Pannonia wasn't like really super-important culture when you compare it with some other cultures during the same timeline like Vatin, the only reason why it caught the attention of Serbian archaeologists is because they used inhumation burials, otherwise i am pretty sure they would sample the more important culture in the region Vatin who used cremation burials. At least that is the impression i got from reading materials, there is overwhelmly far more material on Vatin than Maros. It looks like Maros didn't leave much of succession in Southern Pannonia, IDK.

The J-L283 in Eastern Serbia were not from native population, they were either some Dalmatian Numerii or Illyrian soldiers stationed there in Timacum Minus.

And Triballi were never ruled by Illyrians, it was the Triballi who probably during Iron Age pushed both Dardanians and Glasinac Illyrians as attested by the North-Thracian/Bosut-Bassarabi finds up to Novi Pazar. And, then the Triballi were pushed East by Autariate somewhere in Late Iron Age or Classical times.

And, no records ever that Maedi had any kind of Illyrian influence, they were too deep in Rhodope to have such an influence. More like Dardanians, Paeonians would be the meeting point. And a slight Illyrian influence on Triballi but their material culture doesn't indicate any mid-heavy Illyrian influence, Triballis were even more archaic cremation users than other Thracians with the exception of Geto-Dacians.

Later Triballi were first hit by and later adopted Scythian ways, resulting in the Ferigile culture, the Southern brother of Vekerzug.

Abstract. The paper aims to highlight the peculiarities of the Ferigile group seen as a mixture and as an originalsynthesis of multiple cultural influences that interfered in the North-Balkan area at the end of the Early IronAge. It will be pursued what is original in Ferigile group was taken over the Basarabi cultural background, aswell as what might be the result of cultural influences acquisition of other spaces and cultures. Based on thedirect study of the finds in eponymous cemetery and in others representative cemeteries such as the onessituated on the valley of Topolog River (Cepari, Tigveni, Rudeni), discovered several decades ago by AlexandruVulpe and Eugenia Popescu, the elements of the funeral rite and ritual, but especially the mobile inventory'sfeatures will be discussed. Regarding the grave goods must be said that an amalgam of influences from theScythian space (arms and harness), the Illyrian space (adornments, and also weapons) or the South-Thracian(pottery and some types of weapons) was noticed. All these heterogeneous components, whose origin and function are synthesized in an original manner in the Carpathian foothills of Wallachia and Oltenia, representdefining features of the Ferigile group.

Any kind of attempt on a topic regarding the crossroads of Iron Age civilizations inthe north-Balkans Thracian territory should not avoid bringing into discussion the realitiesyielded by the Sub -Carpathian area. Ferigile archaeological group, representative for the endof the First Iron Age in the southern part of nowadays Romania, in the area situated in thesouthern part of the Carpathians, between the mountains and the Danube plain have anuninterrupted evolution during almost two hundred years, from the mid 7 th century BC untilthe dawn of the Second Iron Age, around the mid 5 th century BC.Looking at the distribution map of the finds belonging to the middle period of theFirst Iron Age north of the Lower Danube, a stage that corresponds to the Basarabi cultureevolution, can be clearly seen that the Sub-Carpathian area is a large blank spot (fig. 1a). Thehigh-density of discoveries marked by the Basarabi specific pottery focuses on the Danubevalley and also on the lower courses of its main tributaries.Then, during the late stage of the first Iron Age, starting from the mid-7 th centurymajor changes occur in the indwelling in this area. It seems that the Danube Plain suddenlydepopulates, while the discoveries concentrate on the high hills area at the foot of theCarpathians, within the former blank spot (fig. 1b).Some scholars have explained this shift of the habitation's poles during the 7 th centuryBC through the withdrawal of the lowland population exposed to more and more frequentraids of Eastern horsemen (namely Scythians) in sheltered territory from the north, in ahigher and hard to reach area. A safe living in the Danube Plain has become increasinglydifficult as the Scythians riders were more & more present in the area (Vulpe 1970, 176-178;S?rbu 1987, 427-428).

https://www.academia.edu/9120609/Ea...ynthesis_in_the_Ferigile_archaeological_group

The main problem of the Thracians was, up to the Celts, always the East, the steppe and the people coming from there (Cimmerians, Scythians) which attacked and transformed them multiple times since Channelled Ware.

 

[Hawk]

Have you guys checked how this sample posted by Pribislav is R1b-Z2705

Not sure if someone already reported this, but Medieval sample I14687 (1400-1700 AD) from Bardhoc, Northeastern Albania, belongs to clade Z2705, and it is the first ancient sample in this clade to date. He has Z2705/CTS883+ C>T (3T). There are quite a lot covered SNPs below Z2705, unfortunately all of them are ancestral, but I guess that's kind of useful as well. He doesn't belong to the following subclades:

Y177765-
A24000-
Y177774-
Y264762-
Y153706-
FT62850-
BY199059-
FT49714-
Y54809-
FT13121-
Y207622-
Y265207-
Y84206-
Y105989-
Z15952-
BY206237-
Y113006-
Y133378-
Y63957-

Distance to:	ALB_PostMA:I14687
0.03446133	ALB_PostMA:I14686
0.03478541	HUN_IA_La_Tene_oEast:I18832
0.03541390	HUN_Sarmatian_Late_Transtisza:A181027
0.03580951	HUN_IA_La_Tene_o:I4998
0.03878830	MKD_Anc:I10379
0.03880275	MKD_BA:I7231
0.03903751	HUN_late_Avar:KK1368
0.03988233	HUN_MA_Szolad:SZ36
0.04004642	SVN_Emona:R10471
0.04025887	HRV_Pop_CAOP39
0.04032513	SRB_Naissus:R6764
0.04077391	ALB_PostMA:I15707
0.04077583	HUN_middle_Avar:SSD198
0.04171905	HUN_late_Avar:SZKT265
0.04258331	MKD_Anc:I10388
0.04264878	HUN_MA_Szolad:SZ40
0.04333116	HUN_late_Avar:KK1252
0.04337292	HUN_Avar_Early_Kövegy:I16750
0.04357753	MNE_LBA:I13775
0.04377132	ALB_MA:I13839
0.04399009	HUN_late_Avar:KK1541
0.04421831	HUN_late_Avar:JHT130
0.04422791	SRB_BA:I16803
0.04438089	HRV_Zadar_Ulica:R3743
0.04454123	HUN_early_Avar:SZK102
0.04454458	HUN_middle_Avar:SZK180
0.04473204	HRV_Cetina_BA:I11843
0.04476210	HRV_Trogir_Byz:I15743
0.04505830	HUN_middle_Avar:SZM38
0.04509756	AUT_Klosterneuburg:R10654
0.04518877	SVN_Emona:R10467
0.04540103	SVK_IA_Vekerzug:I11721
0.04541323	IND_Roopkund_B:I3404
0.04559432	HRV_Trogir_Byz:I15463
0.04560687	MKD_Anc:I10383
0.04599820	MNE_LBA:I13168
0.04602714	HRV_Velic:R3685
0.04605917	HUN_late_Avar:JHT30
0.04644901	MDA_Trypillia_Late:Gordinesti
0.04647124	BGR_KapitanAndreevo_IA:I20183
0.04657190	ITA_Tivoli_Renaissance:RMPR969
0.04667108	HUN_late_Avar:OBT108
0.04686408	ITA_Tarquinia_IA:R10343
0.04703006	HUN_late_Avar:ALT412
0.04710030	MKD_Anc:I10384
0.04714336	HUN_Avar_Late_Visonta:I16751
0.04718838	HRV_Trogir_Byz:I15462
0.04738370	BGR_IA:I5769
0.04742012	HRV_Trogir_Byz:I15741
0.04742739	SRB_Viminacium:R9669

I don't have strong opinion but looking at his autosomal multi-faceted he really doesn't look Western Balkan-like, more like Central Balkan.

 

[mount123]

I don't have strong opinion but looking at his autosomal multi-faceted he really doesn't look Western Balkan-like, more like Central Balkan.

Heavily agree with the last sentence, very Central Balkan. This is on the border with Kosovo and just taking the archeology of the IA/BA North Macedonian group (Paracsin, Mycenaean connection, Brnjica!) it is very easy to predict the outcome of IA "Dardania" and the three totally unrelated cultural complexes that were present there. Albeit this is a medieval sample.

 

[mount123]

Your post let to me lurking around over on Anthrogenica, Hawk. Looks like entertain has found a new home there as "takerunder", "boots“, polluting a bunch of threads over there. Simulating a conversation between his puppet accounts. That is what I call a full mental psychosis.

Entertain/Takerunder’s IQ in a nutshell: „If you find iPhones in Germany, it doesn't mean Germans and Americans are the same.“

 

[PaleoRevenge]

Heavily agree with the last sentence, very Central Balkan. This is on the border with Kosovo and just taking the archeology of the IA/BA North Macedonian group (Paracsin, Mycenaean connection, Brnjica!) it is very easy to predict the outcome of IA "Dardania" and the three totally unrelated cultural complexes that were present there. Albeit this is a medieval sample.

Correct, the Hungary matches are not typical profiles of the region, they are in fact Skopje I10379 profiles. The kukes profile best match. R6756 is E-V13 btw.

And this is how the Hungarian samples can be modeled, despite being allegedly Celtic and Sarmatian. MKD I10383 and I8112 are partially MKD I10379 in profile. Basically the ancestry of these atypical individuals revolves around Skopje I10379 profile.

I did a very thorough comparison for Skopje I10379 and Cimmerian MJ12. I mean I tried everything from BA Russia(west of Volga) to eastern Bell Beaker, and everything Balkan.

And this is what happens when I introduce Cimmerian MJ12 to the source values.

Individually there are HRV BA, Alb BA, eastern Bell Beaker BA that have some matching to this profile, but it's not a very good fit, and they themselves are not typical for their region(BA averages would not work). In the BA, there seems to have been a lot more trading (including of females) and more tolerance to other clades/clans to live among foreign territory. That all broke down in the BA collapse, where one can notice the Illyrian IA profile consolidated and was much more monolithic than the BA profiles which were more diverse.

I10379 represents a central Balkan profile, which was likely much more widespread before the early Thracians decimated them, the entire Morava valley through northern Macedonia must have been their center. They probably had branches in northwestern Bulgaria and Albania south of Drin (Proto-Messapi). The northwestern Bulgarian group got pushed to the Danube delta region(Cimmerian MJ12) and the Messapi to Italy.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

Your post let to me lurking around over on Anthrogenica, Hawk. Looks like entertain has found a new home there as "takerunder", "boots“, polluting a bunch of threads over there. Simulating a conversation between his puppet accounts. That is what I call a full mental psychosis.

Entertain/Takerunder’s IQ in a nutshell: „If you find iPhones in Germany, it doesn't mean Germans and Americans are the same.“

They used to ban him over there. Brumi likely has pleaded to the moderators to keep him, they are using him as bait to get targeted people banned, no one is biting though. In the alleged "serious" forum, he is blatantly using fictional G25 coordinates. Very interesting though, the side that strongly rejects Illyrians as having any east Alpine impulse/influence, have created phony Albanian G25 coordinates that plot Illyrian by using the very same argument they reject. By injecting Eastern La Tene or eastern Beaker profile to Alb G25s. None of these "people" are arguing in good faith, they are all bad characters, intentionally lying.

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread...-of-Albanians/page61&highlight=zanatiscousin1

My cousin is the Westernmost Albanian I've seen. Bruzmi converted it from K13 to G25.

I never had a cousin that was 33-36% Boii.

 

[torzio]

They used to ban him over there. Brumi likely has pleaded to the moderators to keep him, they are using him as bait to get targeted people banned, no one is biting though. In the alleged "serious" forum, he is blatantly using fictional G25 coordinates. Very interesting that the side that strongly rejects Illyrians having any east Alpine impulse/influence, have created phony Albanian G25 coordinates that plot Illyrian by using the very same argument they reject. Eastern La Tene or eastern Beaker profile pull. None of these "people" are arguing in good faith, they are all bad characters.

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread...-of-Albanians/page61&highlight=zanatiscousin1



I never had a cousin that was 33-36% Boii.

Boii from bologna italy or from Bohemia ?

 

[PaleoRevenge]

Boii from bologna italy or from Bohemia ?

Bohemia, Czech La Tene. Brumi did a conversation for an north Albanian individual and he scores 36% Czech La Tene. An insight on how his Illyrian like G25 averages are created.

 

[torzio]

Bohemia, Czech La Tene. Brumi did a conversation for an north Albanian individual and he scores 36% Czech La Tene. An insight on how his Illyrian like G25 averages are created.

Bruzi and others are changing the names but keeping the data .............you will see many albanians using pannonian numbers ...............seems like they want to disassociate themselves from southern balkans

 

[Hawk]

Your post let to me lurking around over on Anthrogenica, Hawk. Looks like entertain has found a new home there as "takerunder", "boots“, polluting a bunch of threads over there. Simulating a conversation between his puppet accounts. That is what I call a full mental psychosis.

Entertain/Takerunder’s IQ in a nutshell: „If you find iPhones in Germany, it doesn't mean Germans and Americans are the same.“

I don't know whether to laugh or cry when i see him and Karagjoz trolling around.

Look at his newest sock, Fluted Column, probably to mock Riverman's Fluted-Ware.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

Test-scaled is a Kastrati Malsor that only posted 4 times on Anthro. He is a northern Gheg. His profile looks legit, normally such people temper with the Slavic ratio (decrease it artificially), and shift it to HRV IA or eastern Celtic. Also he posted his values before MKD Skopje results were even public. The fake G25 also have tendency to have stretched out values(creole mixed population scoring way too many different ancient populations), instead of two primary Balkan IA values like the real Alb G25s.

 

[Excine]

Test-scaled is a Albanian that got banned in Anthro. I am guessing he is a northern Gheg, probably Kosovar. His profile looks legit, normally such people temper with the Slavic ratio (decrease it artificially), and shift it to HRV IA or eastern Celtic. Also he posted his values before MKD Skopje results were even public. The fake G25 also have tendency to have stretched out values(creole mixed population scoring way too many different ancient populations), instead of two primary values like the real Alb G25s.

Bruzmi hasn't even been ever warned, let alone banned "many times" on anthrogenica. Hawk knows this fully well. The anti-Albanian Yugoslav nationalist "Paleo-Revenge" is once more caught lying about everything.

His claim that G25 sims + official G25 of Albanians can't be "real" if they're not Slavic/Thracian enough or that a sample from Lazaridis is "tampered" because it's a medieval Albanian who doesn't have much Slavic admixture and is close to Illyrians is even more ridiculous. The comment above about "Ghegs" who tamper samples to make themselves look less Slavic shows his true colours once more.

In other news, IllustrativeDNA is updating their G25-based system. This is what many Albanians are getting as their top distances:

Paleo-Revenge can play around and create as many fake models with ludicrous results as he wants. Reality really can't change. No Albanian is ever going to score as having a close genetic distance to any of the southeast Thracian samples.

P.S. It's truly pathetic that P-R picked I10379, a sample who is most likely a Dardanian from the Skopje in order to model Albanians just with one sample because the sample already has since the IA, a profile close to medieval Albanians.

The sample's top 10 G25 averages:
Distance to: MKD_Anc:I10379
0.02516637 HUN_IA_La_Tene_oEast
0.02865403 HRV_Pop_CA
0.02985803 UKR_Cimmerian_o
0.03156462 ALB_PostMdv
0.03403740 MKD_Anc
0.03527507 MKD_BA
0.03909775 HRV_Trogir_Byz
0.03922096 ALB_Cinamak_Anc
0.04000686 MNE_LBA
0.04019286 HUN_IA_Syrmian_SremGroup

As everyone has shown on anthrogenica, P-R's model can be used to show most groups who aren't Slavic in the Balkans as "south Thracian" with a great fit, even Greek Maniots.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

Bruzmi hasn't even been ever warned, let alone banned "many times" on anthrogenica. Hawk knows this fully well. The anti-Albanian Yugoslav nationalist "Paleo-Revenge" is once more caught lying about everything.

Your ancestors fought for the Serbs, your low IQ tribes helped(military help) the Serbs siege Shkodra and have free passage through northern Albania. There is even a video on youtube with your tribes waiting in line to get paid by some Montenegrin officer, one by one, getting some small change thrown at them for their shameful service. If you are Trieshi, you might as well zip your mouth on this matter, they even formally enlisted in the Montenegrin army.

Hawk didn't even mention your lover, is entertain and Brumi the same person, or you just can't help yourself and be dishonest?

His claim that G25 sims + official G25 of Albanians can't be "real" if they're not Slavic/Thracian enough or that a sample from Lazaridis is "tampered" because it's a medieval Albanian who doesn't have much Slavic admixture and is close to Illyrians is even more ridiculous. The comment above about "Ghegs" who tamper samples to make themselves look less Slavic shows his true colours once more.

Your G25 values are fake. Albanians are not part Beaker and La Tene. What are my true colors, not low IQ like yourself? Not a dumb traitor?

That's all you got? You're going to keep quoting that like I am ashamed I wrote it? I wrote it and it is how I appraise the world, I probably don't have the same taste in woman as you, I'm certain you like mediocer looking chicks, no biggy. You have the right to bad taste.
You know, I didn't even know Riverman was German, he has single-handedly done more to reconstruct E-V13 origins than any of you. His contribution alone outweighs all of you and your team have allegedly accomplished, like fictional G25 values. That Bosnian poster you can't stand is pretty smart too. They run circles around your boy.

In other news, IllustrativeDNA is updating their G25-based system. This is what many Albanians are getting as their top distances:

Those are distances, cluster to cluster, point to point. They mean nothing on their own, no more than northern Italian = Illyrian. You can't model real Alb G25 values as Illyrian based. You seem to have very poor understanding here despite engaging in this hobby for years.

Paleo-Revenge can play around and create as many fake models with ludicrous results as he wants. Reality really can't change. No Albanian is ever going to score as having a close genetic distance to any of the southeast Thracian samples.

No one is playing around, you're just a inept person with a corrupt character. You question my identity because I'm not dishonest like yourself. Your argument comes down to Albanians are liars, lack honor, and are just plain swindlers, otherwise they are not Albanian.

Here is my model, there is no playing around. Prove that it is wrong.

HRV_IA:Average,0.122441142857143,0.150153142857143,0.0394361428571429,0.00369142857142857,0.0388202857142857,-0.00119514285714286,0.00147714285714286,0.000461428571428571,0.0141998571428571,0.0264242857142857,-0.00278385714285714,0.00745057142857143,-0.0107885714285714,-0.00587842857142857,-0.00354814285714286,0.000947142857142857,0.00286842857142857,0.00224414285714286,0.00272942857142857,0.00101828571428571,-0.00228171428571429,0.00286185714285714,-0.00422557142857143,-0.00227214285714286,-0.00200142857142857
ALB_Çinamak_Anc:Average,0.12475,0.1537512,0.0302452,-0.0142766,0.0300362,-0.0074186,0.003008,0.0005078,-0.001636,0.0248934,0.0011366,0.0071936,-0.0192368,-0.0072664,-0.0093376,-0.0049058,0.0066756,0.0026096,0.0039722,-0.0091042,-0.007986,0.0025474,-0.0043382,0.0057118,-0.0064664
MKD_Southwest_Ohrid_Anc:Average,0.1227012,0.153345,0.0232306,-0.0133722,0.0244968,-0.0063586,-0.0016922,-0.0033692,0.0006136,0.0272624,0.0058134,0.0063242,-0.0168878,-0.0066334,-0.0106676,-0.0031822,0.0011472,0.0044846,0.007944,-0.0095546,-0.0135512,0.0084826,-0.0017008,0.009688,-0.0026104
MKD_Southeast_Valandovo_Anc:Average,0.123498,0.1563915,0.0197985,-0.024225,0.029852,-0.013526,-0.0052875,-0.0064615,0.008897,0.0303425,0.0007305,0.0059945,-0.0118185,0.0056425,-0.0113325,-0.01664,-0.0086055,0.001457,0.005845,-0.016633,-0.0117295,0.0039565,0.0019105,0.005362,-0.001916
South_Thracian:Average,0.120342,0.162484636363636,0.00750790909090909,-0.0525021818181818,0.0298237272727273,-0.0213985454545455,-0.000427272727272727,-0.00148963636363636,0.0115091818181818,0.0437533636363636,0.002864,0.00821554545454545,-0.0182042727272727,-0.000963272727272727,-0.0228134545454545,-0.0118847272727273,0.00982618181818182,0.00269490909090909,0.00823909090909091,-0.00983418181818182,-0.00948327272727273,0.005598,-0.00368618181818182,0.00316554545454545,-0.00649918181818182
MKD_Skopje_Anc:I10379,0.129758,0.149283,0.021873,-0.027132,0.027082,-0.012829,0.005875,0.001846,0.002659,0.034989,-0.001461,0.01169,-0.007284,-0.003716,-0.019137,0.008353,0.029206,-0.002154,0.005656,0.001876,-0.018093,0.002349,-0.002095,0.008435,-0.004311
POL_Weklice_Early_Goths:Average,0.133660714285714,0.129552571428571,0.0762861428571429,0.065892,0.043085,0.0241838571428571,0.00553942857142857,0.0118347142857143,0.00745042857142857,-0.007758,-0.00675071428571429,0.00389657142857143,-0.00736928571428571,-0.00650742857142857,0.0185354285714286,0.0119141428571429,0.00378085714285714,0.000688,0.00183171428571429,0.00644957142857143,0.007986,0.00245528571428571,-0.00151428571428571,0.011912,-0.00145414285714286
CZE_IA_La_Tene:Average,0.128477775,0.1377312,0.05793515,0.036135625,0.0412615,0.010158575,0.002761275,0.003680575,0.00743955,0.01031005,-0.003312775,0.005046725,-0.01234995,-0.009351375,0.008815,0.00627475,-0.000283575,0.001681725,0.001112425,0.003135875,0.003631125,0.0030264,-0.00218145,0.00156345,-0.0011615
Slav_MA,0.1292408,0.1278645,0.0744299,0.0667435,0.0442321,0.0231226,0.0087166,0.012545,-0.0003718,-0.0232598,-0.00248,-0.0092645,0.0149742,0.0188792,-0.0083037,0.0013741,0.0066141,-0.0015894,0.0034395,0.003297,-0.0047075,-0.0031365,0.0046274,-0.0053785,0.0002395
HUN_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:Average,0.123687666666667,0.148267333333333,0.0434943333333333,0.00366066666666667,0.0419563333333333,-0.00130166666666667,0.00203666666666667,0.001154,0.0141123333333333,0.0261813333333333,0.00108266666666667,0.00494566666666667,-0.00926666666666667,0.00165166666666667,-0.00823366666666667,-0.00839733333333333,-0.006215,0.00342033333333333,0.00662,-0.00433533333333333,-0.00811066666666667,0.003091,-0.002013,-0.00955933333333333,0.00103766666666667
Sargat_IA:Average,0.093477,-0.068548125,0.0658075,0.0608855,-0.049201625,-6.98750000000006E-05,0.003055125,0.004442,-0.01516025,-0.02890725,0.014899125,-0.00252875,0.008566625,-0.033236,0.002680375,0.001027625,-0.009664875,0.00121925,-0.001853875,-0.003329625,-0.009343,0.006244375,0.001802375,0.003057625,0.001167625
MNG_Early_Xiongnu:Average,0.0668927692307692,-0.207246076923077,0.0557848461538462,0.0257157692307692,-0.0602005384615385,-0.009375,0.00723107692307692,0.00658553846153846,-0.0122085384615385,-0.0164993846153846,-0.0166386153846154,-0.00288215384615385,-0.000903461538461539,-0.0122060769230769,0.0140104615384615,0.000917846153846154,-0.00948784615384615,0.00161784615384615,0.00147938461538462,0.00503115384615384,-0.0186401538461538,-0.00195938461538462,-0.00628553846153846,0.00203923076923077,0.00205415384615385
AZE_Caucasus_lowlands_LC:ALX002,0.097888,0.137096,-0.06939,-0.072675,-0.023697,-0.013666,0.005875,-0.003692,-0.024338,-0.00164,0.011205,-0.013338,0.012636,0.00578,-0.020765,0.030893,0.024903,0.004181,-0.000251,-0.007754,0.004617,0.015086,-0.003944,-0.015544,-0.005508
ARM_Noratus_Anc:Average,0.0944735,0.137604,-0.05638,-0.0637925,-0.0253895,-0.019941,0.0038775,-0.005192,-0.0223955,-0.0041,0.00609,0.00517,-0.006764,-0.0052985,-0.0010855,0.00305,0.009453,-0.001964,0.005594,-0.0068785,0.003993,-0.00136,0.0019105,-0.0025905,0.003353
IRN_Hasanlu_C_BA_&_IA:Average,0.0949608571428571,0.126070714285714,-0.0649725714285714,-0.0443432857142857,-0.0409744285714286,-0.00844628571428571,0.00688228571428571,-0.00458228571428571,-0.0376322857142857,-0.0118451428571429,0.00605485714285714,6.42857142857142E-05,0.000977,-0.00359785714285714,0.000853,0.00746271428571429,-0.000707857142857143,0.00356528571428571,0.00301685714285714,-0.00394842857142857,0.00180042857142857,-0.00439857142857143,-0.00508828571428571,-0.00719542857142857,0.00138571428571429
Levant_PPNB:Average,0.0774,0.165192666666667,-0.0314266666666667,-0.139752333333333,0.035699,-0.063215,-0.0110453333333333,-0.012999,0.0681746666666667,0.0413676666666667,0.0197033333333333,-0.014287,0.0312683333333333,-0.00197266666666667,-0.0285013333333333,0.009016,0.0160803333333333,-0.00135133333333333,-0.00439966666666667,0.019926,-0.00391,0.008491,-0.00209533333333333,-0.00397633333333333,-0.006267
ISR_Natufian_EpiP,0.034147,0.152329,-0.022627,-0.140506,0.042162,-0.085062,-0.016921,-0.015692,0.12476,0.019317,0.028743,-0.025327,0.085926,-0.004129,0.004886,-0.014054,-0.011213,-0.007855,-0.02074,0.023136,0.01123,0.001607,0.00912,0.003735,-0.003233
Berber_Tunisia_Chen,-0.0279499,0.1390711,-0.0080871,-0.0764792,0.0277316,-0.0352023,-0.0313867,0.0052818,0.0684246,0.0297957,0.0040057,-0.0043877,0.0196314,-0.0161248,0.0140923,-0.0169052,0.0001521,-0.0232896,-0.0467247,0.0078579,-0.0168314,-0.0404275,0.0281347,-0.0044517,0.0063666

test_scaled,0.120652,0.145221,0.021496,-0.00646,0.038161,-0.00753,0.00188,0.000462,-0.001636,0.012392,-0.007145,-0.001499,-0.000892,0.015276,-0.017372,0.012596,0.02712,-0.001647,0.007416,-0.005503,-0.008984,-0.004328,-0.003821,0.009881,0.001676
ALB_PostMdv:I14685,0.127482,0.146236,0.024513,-0.019057,0.026774,-0.001673,0.001175,0.002077,0.002863,0.010023,0.005034,-0.004196,-0.001933,0.016239,-0.020087,-0.000928,0.019427,-0.0019,0.00817,-0.003377,-0.010731,0.000495,0.000123,0.00241,-0.002994
ALB_PostMdv:I14686,0.114961,0.152329,0.006034,-0.027778,0.024004,-0.007809,-0.00235,0.004846,-0.002863,0.022415,-0.001461,0.013938,-0.011744,0.005367,-0.028773,0.001591,0.013299,0.00114,0.009176,-0.007754,-0.009858,0.008161,0.000739,0.005061,-0.00467
ALB_PostMdv:I14687,0.119514,0.155376,0.002263,-0.020995,0.032006,-0.008925,-0.002585,0.007384,0.004704,0.0277,0.00682,0.003897,-0.013231,-0.002752,-0.021851,0.005701,0.027511,0.005448,-0.000251,-0.008504,-0.018467,0.008656,0.006162,0.004579,-0.019639
ALB_PostMdv:I15707,0.126344,0.153345,0.020365,-0.026809,0.028928,-0.01506,0.01081,-0.006,0.00225,0.025149,-0.001786,0.005995,-0.019029,-0.004817,-0.019001,-0.000265,0.028554,0.001267,0.011313,-0.004502,-0.017594,0.004699,0.001356,0.00241,0.001796

P.S. It's truly pathetic that P-R picked I10379, a sample who is most likely a Dardanian from the Skopje in order to model Albanians just with one sample because the sample already has since the IA, a profile close to medieval Albanians.

You are lucky the moderrators tolerate your dishonest character. Read the posts above mine(https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threa...-VIDEO/page146?p=661137&viewfull=1#post661137). Hawk was wondering about I10379. I didn't pick it out of the blue, he asked about it's profile. I already knew the Kukes post mdv score high Dardanian, as do many northern Ghegs.

The sample's top 10 G25 averages:
Distance to: MKD_Anc:I10379
0.02516637 HUN_IA_La_Tene_oEast
0.02865403 HRV_Pop_CA
0.02985803 UKR_Cimmerian_o
0.03156462 ALB_PostMdv
0.03403740 MKD_Anc
0.03527507 MKD_BA
0.03909775 HRV_Trogir_Byz
0.03922096 ALB_Cinamak_Anc
0.04000686 MNE_LBA
0.04019286 HUN_IA_Syrmian_SremGroup

Those are distances, I produced a model. You are not comparing apples to apples. You have no idea what you are doing, or understand what's being presented.

As everyone has shown on anthrogenica, P-R's model can be used to show most groups who aren't Slavic in the Balkans as "south Thracian" with a great fit, even Greek Maniots.

People do know what models are (maybe not you though, you seem confused on this part), they can also see Brumis models are total failures, LOL.

Why shouldn't the model not work for Greeks, south Thracians so far do not seem alien to ancient Greeks, south Thracian is almost a equivalent substitute ingridient. And the Greek averages are made of much larger samples, which have a positive effect on the fit. The larger the sample, the easier it is to make a good fit.

 

[mount123]

I don't know whether to laugh or cry when i see him and Karagjoz trolling around.

Look at his newest sock, Fluted Column, probably to mock Riverman's Fluted-Ware. ������

No way he did that I find him simulating a conversation between his multiple puppet accounts (takerunder, boots, fluted columns etc.) to be borderline schizophrenic to be honest.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

A possible Messapi profile in ancient Rome.

The remains are from Rome, Italic haplogroup R-PF7589. Probably not a Messapi.