Where does the Albanian language come from? [VIDEO]

[enter_tain]

What's your problem? Those samples are clearly Illyrian. Check yourself in or something I see you posting utter non sense everywhere.

Are you illiterate? I said they're not ALL Illyrians. There were Illyrians all over the Western Balkans. Liburnians/Dalmatians are not the only ones.

Anything else you want to cry about?

 

[Illyria]

I am from Central and East Kosovo which is considered "north east Geg" which i personally find misleading as our dialect is very different from let's say Presheve Albanians or other supposedly North East Geg areas. The Prishtina valley has also a higher South Illyrian patrilineage survival than West or South Kosovo for instance.

Goga is by the way a very common Aromanian surname it is also present among South Albanians.

Gjakove, Gjilan, and Mitrovica are 25% J2b2 so far, Prishtine at 28%, so there is a decent spread of Illyrian patrilineage in Kosova overall, even in the South West and North. But yes, overall J2b is more concentrated in Eastern Kosova

I can't post links yet but you can see all the J2b2 here:

https:// rrenjet.com /statistikat/

copy&paste, delete the spaces

 

[Johane Derite]

The evidence for a Latinised Illyrian people in North Albania can be found in placenames like:


Kashnjet <- Castanetum
Kallmet <- Calametum
Qerret <- Ceretum
Laç <- Latio
Vinjall <- Vinealis


Etc.


But what happened to these Latin speaking Illyrians?


There are indications that at least some of these Illyrians were assimilated by the Proto-Albanians.


This might mean Central Ghegs and Northwest Ghegs possibly have an Illyrian component not present in Tosks and Northeast Ghegs.

"Illyria" brought up a good point about the latinization that occurred in Dardania. Many locals were indeed latinized in Dardania/Moesia, and this region is where the Proto-Romanian speakers are argued to have been latinized.

Because the Latin variety in the Komani-Kruja culture sites is of a Dalmatian western variety, we know that proto-Albanian cannot have been there otherwise its latin would be entirely of the Western strain, whereas since most of Albanians latin loanwords are of the same inland variety as the proto-Romanians, the proto-Albanians must have been in the same region as them, and not where the Komani-Kruja culture strain of Latin was.

But this is not all, the features of the Romanian language also show that the language proto-Romanians spoked before being latinised must have been a language close to proto-Albanian. Since the proto-Romanians were not in the Komani-Kruja culture/Albania, it can hardly be argued that they were speaking the Illyrian language before they became Romanians.


Noel Malcolm:

" Linguists have long been aware that Albanian and Romanian have many features in common, in matters of structure, vocabulary and idiom, and that these must have arisen in two ways.


First, the 'substratum' of Romanian (that is, the language spoken by the proto-Romanians before they switched to Latin) must have been similar to Albanian;


and secondly, there must have been close contact between Albanians and early Romanian-speakers over a long period, involving a shared pastoral life. (Some key elements of the pastoral vocabulary in Romanian are borrowed from Albanian.)"

 

[enter_tain]

Noel Malcolm:

" Linguists have long been aware that Albanian and Romanian have many features in common, in matters of structure, vocabulary and idiom, and that these must have arisen in two ways.


First, the 'substratum' of Romanian (that is, the language spoken by the proto-Romanians before they switched to Latin) must have been similar to Albanian;


and secondly, there must have been close contact between Albanians and early Romanian-speakers over a long period, involving a shared pastoral life. (Some key elements of the pastoral vocabulary in Romanian are borrowed from Albanian.)"

This guy is still quoting a journalist for linguistics. He got offended when someone pointed it because Noel Malcolm is "accomplished"

Obama is a very accomplished guy too. Maybe go ask his opinion on linguistics too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAYdpV6X5cU

You're really scraping the bottom of the barrel at this point

 

[blevins13]

In "The Albanian autochthony hypothesis from the perspective of linguistics", Matzinger argues:


-Proto-Albanians migrated to Albania ~300-900 AD
-North Albania has older Albanian presence than South
-Albanian ethnogenesis is result of Christian Albanian pastoral communities [shepherds] coming into confrontation with non-Christian Slavs
-The area they migrated from are the late antiquity provinces of Dardania, Moesia, Dacia Mediterranea, Dacia Ripensis

He says that the approximate window of 300-900AD for the proto-Albanian migration is enough for the Gheg Tosk isogloss to have developed

I don’t see that, there are no mountains in that area, and therefore no shepherds, that is a farming place.


Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum

 

[Johane Derite]

I don’t see that, there are no mountains in that area, and therefore no shepherds, that is a farming place.


Sent from my ****** using Eupedia Forum

No mountains?

Except for the plains of Dukagjin and Kosova, it is mostly mountains

 

[Johane Derite]

If we plot Nish and Shtip on the topographic map (toponyms accepted as having an Albanian sound change by both academic camps in the pro-Thracian hypothesis and pro-Illyrian hypothesis circles) then we should expect those proto-Albanian speaking shepherds to have been in Dardania/Maceodonia regions mostly.

 

[enter_tain]

If anyone wants to see the real "Proto-Albanians" and not listen to the rants of court jesters, look at the thread I made using Davidski's plot.

Proto-Albanians were, 100% without a doubt, very similar to Mycenean Greeks.

https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/42219-Southern-Illyrians-Mycenean-Greeks-on-a-PCA-plot

Thracians are WAY too far eastern-shifted to be ancestral to Albanians. You add Middle Aged Slavic ancestry and you end up in no-man's land genetically.

 

[enter_tain]

Like I've been saying for a while, there is a reason northern Greeks and Albanians plot almost identically. They're almost the same population genetically. Nothing to do with Dacians or Thracians or whatever garbage these detractors are putting forth.

 

[Johane Derite]

If we plot Nish and Shtip on the topographic map (toponyms accepted as having an Albanian sound change by both academic camps in the pro-Thracian hypothesis and pro-Illyrian hypothesis circles) then we should expect those proto-Albanian speaking shepherds to have been in Dardania/Maceodonia regions mostly.

Interestingly, this position might open up the scenario that the proto-Albanian language may have been in a continuum with Macedonian and the Greek group in a more distant timeframe, and not part of the East Alpine Block languages like Illyrian.


This would explain why Albanians are more mycenean like than Illyrian like autosomally. J2b-l283 is negiligible in Greeks so cannot be a factor in any autosomal similarity.


From Matzinger:

The two are opposites and cannot fit together,” he says. “Albanian is not as the same as Illyrian from a linguistic point of view.”


Schumacher and Matzinger believe Albanian came into existence separately from Illyrian, orginating from the Indo-European family tree during the second millennium BC, somewhere in the northern Balkans.


The language’s broad shape resembles Greek. It appears to have developed lineally until the 15th century, when the first extant text comes to light.


“One thing we know for sure is that a language which, with some justification, we can call Albanian has been around for at least 3,000 years,” Schumacher says.

“Even though it was not written down for millennia, Albanian existed as a separate entity,” he added.

 

[Hawk]

Like I've been saying for a while, there is a reason northern Greeks and Albanians plot almost identically. They're almost the same population genetically. Nothing to do with Dacians or Thracians or whatever garbage these detractors are putting forth.

You have been opening your mouth too much lately with various sock puppet accounts. Try to shut for once or try to do it IRL so we can shut it and put you in your place.

 

[enter_tain]

You have been opening your mouth too much lately with various sock puppet accounts. Try to shut for once or try to do it IRL so we can shut it and put you in your place.

I've been opening my mouth with facts and DNA. I'm posting genetic studies done by other people and showing the fit. You've been opening it with fanfiction and random Game of Thrones scenarios from cultures we barely know anything about and no DNA from.

 

[enter_tain]

Interestingly, this position might open up the scenario that the proto-Albanian language may have been in a continuum with Macedonian and the Greek group in a more distant timeframe, and not part of the East Alpine Block languages like Illyrian.


This would explain why Albanians are more mycenean like than Illyrian like autosomally. J2b-l283 is negiligible in Greeks so cannot be a factor in any autosomal similarity.


From Matzinger:

The two are opposites and cannot fit together,” he says. “Albanian is not as the same as Illyrian from a linguistic point of view.”


Schumacher and Matzinger believe Albanian came into existence separately from Illyrian, orginating from the Indo-European family tree during the second millennium BC, somewhere in the northern Balkans.


The language’s broad shape resembles Greek. It appears to have developed lineally until the 15th century, when the first extant text comes to light.


“One thing we know for sure is that a language which, with some justification, we can call Albanian has been around for at least 3,000 years,” Schumacher says.

“Even though it was not written down for millennia, Albanian existed as a separate entity,” he added.

Like I said, Thracians and Dacians are too eastern shifted to be ancestral to Albanians. You add Slavic ancestry to Thracians and Dacians and you get a very eastern population.

It's quite clear Proto-Thracians and Proto-Dacians had to have been very Northern Slavic-like produce Bronze Age Bulgarians. Proto-Greeks and Proto-Illyrians were more eastern shifted, but not Slavic-like. They were more Central European like.

 

[mount123]

Like I said, Thracians and Dacians are too eastern shifted to be ancestral to Albanians. You add Slavic ancestry to Thracians and Dacians and you get a very eastern population.

It's quite clear Proto-Thracians and Proto-Dacians had to have been very Northern Slavic-like produce Bronze Age Bulgarians. Proto-Greeks and Proto-Illyrians were more eastern shifted, but not Slavic-like. They were more Central European like.

IA Thracians are very southern shifted nothing Slavic about them. Also the Slavic invasions happened in late antiquity and the early middle ages. It would be great if some moderator would ban you at this point your non sense behaviour is getting out of control.

 

[enter_tain]

IA Thracians are very southern shifted nothing Slavic about them. Also the Slavic invasions happened in late antiquity and the early middle ages. It would be great if some moderator would ban you at this point your non sense behaviour is getting out of control.

Mods should ban me because you have basic reading comprehension problems? Being southern and being eastern are not mutually exclusive. They are both. Look at the graph I posted. They are southern but much more eastern shifted to Mycenean Greeks.

This population cannot be ancestral to Albanians, because adding more Middle Ages Slavic ancestry would drive them even further east and away from modern Albanians.

I didn't say they are Slavic. I said Proto-Thracians and Proto-Dacians were very "Slavic-like". Again, learn to read.

 

[mount123]

Mods should ban me because you have basic reading comprehension problems? Being southern and being eastern are not mutually exclusive. They are both. Look at the graph I posted. They are southern but much more eastern shifted to Mycenean Greeks.

This population cannot be ancestral to Albanians, because adding more Middle Ages Slavic ancestry would drive them even further east and away from modern Albanians.

I didn't say they are Slavic. I said Proto-Thracians and Proto-Dacians were very "Slavic-like". Again, learn to read.

IA Thracians are nowhere near close to North East Slavic or NE populations their distance to MENA is less than to the former.

 

[enter_tain]

IA Thracians are nowhere near close to North East Slavic or NE populations their distance to MENA is less than to the former.

IA Thracians are not Proto-Thracians. I'm talking about the population ancestral to the Thracians that settled there. When Proto-Greeks, Proto-Illyrians, Proto-Thracians/Dacians, moved to the Balkans, they mixed with local EEF-heavy/Minoan-like people.

If you make Bulgarian IA less EEF/Neolithic Balkanic, you get an ancestral proto population similar to the northern Slavs.

 

[Aspurg]

Illyrian in Croatia and Slovenia are not all Illyrians. Of course you know that, but want to keep bullshitting. We still have no Z638 Illyrians.

We do have Daunians who were migrants from Albania.. And some of their samples might be of some autosomal use.

It's quite clear Proto-Thracians and Proto-Dacians had to have been very Northern Slavic-like produce Bronze Age Bulgarians. Proto-Greeks and Proto-Illyrians were more eastern shifted, but not Slavic-like. They were more Central European like.

Proto-Dacians/Proto-Thracians had nothing to do with any Slavic-like source. There are such Gava culture finds in the upcoming Pannonian study, E1b sample with more Steppe is approaching Czech Bell Beakers i.e. more affinity to Austrians than any Slavs. And there are also some more southern Gava samples.


Slavs are like aliens. They are IE Steppe source heavily admixed with some EHG/WHG sources which makes them more NE. Slavs are not a Steppe population, and they do not represent any IE Steppe population.


And IA Thracians are more Eastern, more to do with their Eastern Mediterranean admixture, with much more Anatolian-like genome than Illyrians.


BA Bulgarians are irrelevant, they were largely replaced by other admixture that V13 brought with them.


Also I never said Albanians are Thracians or Dacians, Albanian language is clearly neither of those. Nor is it Illyrian. Albanians are most likely from Dardania of a pre-Illyrian/pre-Thracian population.


In an area of SE Serbia, W.Bulgaria, Macedonia lived some other IE populations. Original pre-Illyrian Dardanians, Paeonians. Surely some less known groups. And there is 3rd century AD evidence of one such population surviving and keeping their language.

 

[enter_tain]

We do have Daunians who were migrants from Albania.. And some of their samples might be of some autosomal use.







Proto-Dacians/Proto-Thracians had nothing to do with any Slavic-like source. There are such Gava culture finds in the upcoming Pannonian study, E1b sample with more Steppe is approaching Czech Bell Beakers i.e. more affinity to Austrians than any Slavs. And there are also some more southern Gava samples.


Slavs are like aliens. They are IE Steppe source heavily admixed with some EHG/WHG sources which makes them more NE. Slavs are not a Steppe population, and they do not represent any IE Steppe population.


And IA Thracians are more Eastern, more to do with their Eastern Mediterranean admixture, with much more Anatolian-like genome than Illyrians.


BA Bulgarians are irrelevant, they were largely replaced by other admixture that V13 brought with them.


Also I never said Albanians are Thracians or Dacians, Albanian language is clearly neither of those. Nor is it Illyrian. Albanians are most likely from Dardania of a pre-Illyrian/pre-Thracian population.


In an area of SE Serbia, W.Bulgaria, Macedonia lived some other IE populations. Original pre-Illyrian Dardanians, Paeonians. Surely some less known groups. And we have 3rd century AD evidence of one such population surviving and keeping their language.

If you remove a lot of EEF from Bulgarian IA, you get close to Ukranian-like populations. Slavs are not aliens, because Thracians/Dacians would have been very close to them geographically. They are satem languages. (Albanian has been considered only a partially satemized language).

Like I've been saying over and over, you remove Slavic ancestry from modern Albanians (and northern Greeks), and you get close to Mycenean Greeks. Proto-Albanians were a classic southern/southwestern Balkans population.

 

[mount123]

If you remove a lot of EEF from Bulgarian IA, you get close to Ukranian-like populations. Slavs are not aliens, because Thracians/Dacians would have been very close to them geographically. They are satem languages. (Albanian has been considered only a partially satemized language).

Like I've been saying over and over, you remove Slavic ancestry from modern Albanians (and northern Greeks), and you get close to Mycenean Greeks. Proto-Albanians were a classic southern/southwestern Balkans population.

Non sense.