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What i don't understand is if there are already IE Anatolian names from Northwest Syria from 2500 BC, then who are the brachycephal invaders of Anatolia from 2000 BC?
% of brachycephal people went suddenly from %16 to %42 - %50 so these invaders were very numerous and until now the samples from their period doesn't show steppe admixture too. At the same time, Anatolian languages started to expand with these invaders.
How is this possible? I read that Hattian language seems related to Caucasian languages but Hattians are known to be the local population and Hittites are known to be the intruders. In this case Hattians would be the intruders.Hattians perhaps?
How is this possible? I read that Hattian language seems related to Caucasian languages but Hattians are known to be the local population and Hittites are known to be the intruders. In this case Hattians would be the intruders.
Has this really been demonstrated convincingly? I've been wondering myself. Caucasus admixture as Hattian signal seems to make sense.
Related: https://colchianstudies.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/singer__kaska__phasis_20071.pdf
Exactly. Yamnaya could have been a language related to Caucasian languages that was carried by R1b and that spread into Europe with its only living descendant being Basque. Since these cultures leave no written records, all theories about their language are just speculation.
in fact Iberian BB are devoid of CHG admixture, so it is more easy, they didn't came from steppes or Central Europe. The apparent EHG can be attributed to forcing programs to assign ADN chunks to given pops, maybe this recently published paper were there were diverse HG survivals or admixtures is delivering ghost pops.
in fact Iberian BB are devoid of CHG admixture, so it is more easy, they didn't came from steppes or Central Europe. The apparent EHG can be attributed to forcing programs to assign ADN chunks to given pops, maybe this recently published paper were there were diverse HG survivals or admixtures is delivering ghost pops.
They must have CHG, surely, otherwise it would be a dead giveaway
After all this time you still haven't figured out that Bell Beaker pottery is just that...a pottery style...and not an ethnicity, and that the original Iberians who used Beakers are DIFFERENT genetically from the Central European people who adopted beakers and other hallmarks of that culture?
After all this time you still haven't figured out that Bell Beaker pottery is just that...a pottery style...and not an ethnicity, and that the original Iberians who used Beakers are DIFFERENT genetically from the Central European people who adopted beakers and other hallmarks of that culture?
Let's try scaled Global25 on Iberia Bell Beaker (with steppe); it's surely not gospel, but it's something.maybe you can find it, I'm not capable...
I figure that BB is pottery inside a cultural package linked to a big demographic change in Western Europe carried mainly by R1b, that it is to say ethnicity, they had the same religion even. Maybe you could read more about them.
I think the recent Iberia paper may have actually exposed a glimmer of doubt for Yamnaya being IE
I definitely think a migration was involved with the spread of BB pottery to Iberia though, even if people of different ancestries used the pottery simultaneously. What that was I don't know (it could be North African-related, L51-related, G2a-related etc.), but I know it's very rare for brand new pottery styles to emerge with no clear immediate predecessor.
Why do you say that?
As for all IE languages being derived from a CWC language, do we already know if the steppe ancestry in the Balkans and especially in Greece and Armenia fits better with a (probably) Late Yamnaya/Early Catacomb or with a CWC origin? If the former, that would immediately falsify the idea that CWC can explain the entire expansion of IE languages. Besides, Yamnaya and Sredny Stog were autosomally and culturally much, much closer to each other than Yamnaya to any Caucasian CA or BA culture or to Cucuteni-Tripolye, which suggests to me that it is more likely that SS and Yamnaya shared the same language family than Yamnaya speaking a completely different language, let alone one of contemporaneous Caucasian stock (PIE was certainly a continuum of several dialects and maybe even had sister languages that eventually died out during the expansion of some more successful languages within that linguistic area).
Additionally, the Iberia paper as well as others confirmed that Central European BB was probably a big part of the history of Indo-Europeanization of Europe, but BB as far as I can see cannot be responsible for what happened in the Balkans (their easternmost reach was Hungary and they didn't have much influence beyond that), which also involved full Indo-Europeanization. Besides, it's not even certain that those Central European Bell Beakers were of CWC stock, and not coming from an intermediate homeland ultimately derived from Yamnaya. I find it tremendously unlikely that they just shifted to the language of theCWC women (not that they married only or mostly CWC women, they had far too much EEF ancestry for that), not just women, but women of a declining and generally less advanced culture than their own (language shift when the conquerors are a minority conquering a fully formed civilization is not a given, i.e. the Turkish in Anatolia or Arabs in Egypt, let alone when the conquerors are not absorbing a high culture and very complex society to rule them).
If you want to know my present leanings (of course they may change as I read more and more studies are released): ~5000 BC: Khvalynsk (pre-PIE) and Sredny Stog (para-PIE) > ~4200 B.C.: Suvorovo-Novodanilovka (early PIE) > 4000 B.C.: Sredny Stog and Late Khvalynsk (homogeneization of the languages of the steppe, followed by a new dialect continuum), with Suvorovo "islands" in the Balkans leading to the Indo-Europeanization of some communities (possibly in Cernavoda and/or Ezero) > 3500 B.C.: Repin/Early Yamnaya (second wave of linguistic homogeneization of the steppe, with LPIE dialects expanding and either absorbing or forcing a "reconvergence" of linguistic aspects towards a new lingua franca)... Or something like that. lol
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