News Article on Wang Paper - PIE is Anatolian again?

ToBeOrNotToBe

ToBeOrNotToBe

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From here: https://www.sciencenews.org/article/dna-mating-asian-herders-european-farmers

Migrations of some Maykop into Yamnaya territory, accompanied by the transfer of knowledge and language, still happened, Wang’s team suspects. Occasional migrations north through the Caucasus to Yamnaya grasslands fits a scenario in which the ancient homeland of Indo-European language lay among Anatolian farmers, the researchers speculate. If they’re right, they have resolved one of the thorniest issues in the study of languages. But the long-debated origins of Indo-European tongues remain uncertain.
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Anybody else as confused as I am? I thought there were only two remaining camps - the Southern origin associated with the source of Steppe CHG and the indigenous Northern Steppe origin. But now, it looks like Max Planck is seriously proposing an origin with farmers.

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It's just the words of the reporter, not even directly quoting anyone, so I wouldn't put any weight on it. The reporter has to cover lots of topics, it's doubtful he knows the exact implication of saying "Anatolian farmers".
 
Megalophias said:
It's just the words of the reporter, not even directly quoting anyone, so I wouldn't put any weight on it. The reporter has to cover lots of topics, it's doubtful he knows the exact implication of saying "Anatolian farmers".
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I disagree, it's consistent with the video posted. They do seem to actually think IE spread with the spread of farming. So Sardinians are the purest Aryans lol (I'm obviously not being serious before anyone freaks out)
 
I just got a ten second vortex in my head were every knowledge i had from the subject and this max planck conclusion mingled and created in my head a dramatic lost of comprehension about the world and everything. But i'm happy to be alive to see the future.

Btw, " Yamnaya herders from western Asia ".
 
Does ANYBODY have a clue how Max Planck can believe this? I align with Harvard and Reich pretty well, they don't seem to believe in ridiculous things such as IVC spoke Indo-Aryan, Danubian farmers spoke Centum IE etc. Do they have some data we don't to lead them in that direction?
 
ToBeOrNotToBe said:
Yeah the emphasis of Yamnaya being Western Asian (when the Pontic-Caspian Steppe is clearly in Europe) is political correctness, the author should be looked into (hopefully he isn't Jewish lol as he looks it :P - I'm just kidding (but my Jewdar is max-level)). I don't, however, think Max Planck is influenced by political correctness - I think they're being genuine. How they reached their conclusions, though, I have no idea...

I AM JOKING about the Jewish part by the way, before any accusations come in. His motives have to be questioned though, Southern Russia isn't in Asia.
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I think hard science is by default ( i could be wrong ) protected against political correctness because it revolves against logical deduction. And deduction is a big part in archeogenetic most of them already acknowledge it, like using deduction when using calculators ( exemple: if modern southeast asian ancestry pops up in mesolithic baltic, there is an obvious error ). I think however to other reasons, that i will keep to myself. But they probably gonna vulgarize their position in a few times, even if only one week earlier, they linked PIE with the increase of CHG/Iran ancestry component... It might also being a big mistake by the author of the article himself, he might didn't get the conclusion, or i dont know.

Can we not all have jokes about George Soros? ;D
 
I wonder where in the study it says Yamnaya inherited 10 % to 18 % from 'eastern European farmers'. And to what extent the DNA of those 'eastern European farmers' differs from the regular neolithic European?
 
halfalp said:
I think hard science is by default ( i could be wrong ) protected against political correctness because it revolves against logical deduction. And deduction is a big part in archeogenetic most of them already acknowledge it, like using deduction when using calculators ( exemple: if modern southeast asian ancestry pops up in mesolithic baltic, there is an obvious error ). I think however to other reasons, that i will keep to myself. But they probably gonna vulgarize their position in a few times, even if only one week earlier, they linked PIE with the increase of CHG/Iran ancestry component... It might also being a big mistake by the author of the article himself, he might didn't get the conclusion, or i dont know.

Can we not all have jokes about George Soros? ;D
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It isn't the author manipulating anything as that video clearly shows they think it spread with farmers. If they found no Steppe in Anatolia and Steppe already existing in India before the Andronovo expansion, I guess I can see why they'd think that, but they'd surely be wrong
 
ToBeOrNotToBe said:
Does ANYBODY have a clue how Max Planck can believe this? I align with Harvard and Reich pretty well, they don't seem to believe in ridiculous things such as IVC spoke Indo-Aryan, Danubian farmers spoke Centum IE etc. Do they have some data we don't to lead them in that direction?
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Maybe they deciphered Linear A and find it to be Indo-European :)) Though even that wouldn't be enough.
 
Cpluskx said:
Maybe they deciphered Linear A and find it to be Indo-European :)) Though even that wouldn't be enough.
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Linear A COULD be Anatolian-like - I won't speculate too much but it's something I could believe.

The implications are pretty big though, as Linear A has loads of similarities with certain aspects of Danubian scripts IIRC. Perhaps it's a Pelasgian thing - but Vinca is MUCH older than Minoan
 
ToBeOrNotToBe said:
It isn't the author manipulating anything as that video clearly shows they think it spread with farmers. If they found no Steppe in Anatolia and Steppe already existing in India before the Andronovo expansion, I guess I can see why they'd think that, but they'd surely be wrong
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No but... You cannot say one week " we link PIE with increase of CHG/Iran " and the other one " we link PIE with Anatolian Farmers ". This is science not a debate between two bipolar persons. That is gonna be called out by the community and other scientists non affiliate with Jena, Planck, Harvard whatsoever. inb4 Harvard Gate.
 
ToBeOrNotToBe said:
Does ANYBODY have a clue how Max Planck can believe this? I align with Harvard and Reich pretty well, they don't seem to believe in ridiculous things such as IVC spoke Indo-Aryan, Danubian farmers spoke Centum IE etc. Do they have some data we don't to lead them in that direction?
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Wasn't Maykop like G2a/L1a? So more likely to be from EEF.
 
halfalp said:
No but... You cannot say one week " we link PIE with increase of CHG/Iran " and the other one " we link PIE with Anatolian Farmers ". This is science not a debate between two bipolar persons. That is gonna be called out by the community and other scientists non affiliate with Jena, Planck, Harvard whatsoever. inb4 Harvard Gate.
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Harvard has stuck with a certain branch of CHG-like ancestry being PIE for a long time, they haven't changed. As regard to MP - I just don't know
 
ToBeOrNotToBe said:
Linear A COULD be Anatolian-like - I won't speculate too much but it's something I could believe.

The implications are pretty big though, as Linear A has loads of similarities with certain aspects of Danubian scripts IIRC. Perhaps it's a Pelasgian thing - but Vinca is MUCH older than Minoan
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If Minoan is IE and there is a relationship between the scripts you mentioned then related IE speakers might have moved to Balkans and then Indo-Europeanized the steppes. I think Balkan origin of PIE was one of the options on Eurogenes' blog.
This is a total speculation though and may be complete nonsense.
 
Cpluskx said:
If Minoan is IE and there is a relationship between the scripts you mentioned then related IE speakers might have moved to Balkans and then Indo-Europeanized the steppes. I think Balkan origin of PIE was one of the options on Eurogenes' blog.
This is a total speculation though and may be complete nonsense.
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A Balkan origin doesn't seem right, is all I'll say. Also, Minoan isn't likely to be IE even if I think it and Tyrsenian might be Anatolian-like.
 
markod said:
Wasn't Maykop like G2a/L1a? So more likely to be from EEF.
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That's a real dead end, the G2a in Maykop is the same as nowadays Georgia. All Southern haplogroups from this study, are today well represented in Caucasian languages. That's an overkill for this hypothesis. And no, it was L2/L595, not L1a wich was Areni-1 cave.
 
ToBeOrNotToBe said:
Does ANYBODY have a clue how Max Planck can believe this?
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They have a very similar understanding of the issue as my own, so what don't you understand? They're not saying it spread with early farmers they're saying it spread with CHG mountain herders.
 
Saetrus said:
They have a very similar understanding of the issue as my own, so what don't you understand? They're not saying it spread with early farmers they're saying it spread with CHG mountain herders.
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You didn't read anything then. They're saying it spread with farmers.
 
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